01-13-15 05:09 PM
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  1. slagman5's Avatar
    Ok, I know I'm not the first to suggest this idea, but I have a more specific route to it I want to present. So my question is, what if BB allows other phone makers to use their OS, kind of like Android does, but not for anyone, ONLY low-end phones? So they allow it to be used either cheap or free, but only for cheap low-end devices. I say that because I wouldn't really want the mid to high range devices that could cut into BB's device sales, but in this way we can get more people into the ecosystem, which could increase app sales which would cause more developers to make BB10 apps, which would in turn make it easier to advertise BB10 as a viable option. When you look at an OS like Windows Phone, they make all of their sales with their low-end cheap devices.

    I mean, shed some light on this if I'm completely wrong, but by licensing it out free or extremely cheap selectively to a certain class of devices, I don't see how this could possibly cause BB to lose any money. This is basically free advertising, free BB10 devices in the field, motivation for app developers, etc. And by keeping the mid to high range devices still BB made this would control the quality of the devices. Nobody buys a sub-$100 device expecting it to be like a Galaxy S5, so those devices not being great does very little to hurt the overall reputation like those cheap crappy Androids you see everywhere. What do you guys think? Am I missing something here that can possibly hurt BB if they do this?

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    01-10-15 01:02 PM
  2. diegonei's Avatar
    They already said they want to license BB10... The root of the issue is the same: NOBODY seems to be interested in licensing it.

    It doesn't matter if high end of entry level. No other company seems to bother with BB10.

    Ok.. So...

    Don't kill me, just a thought, input is encouraged!-machine_gun_cat.gif
    01-10-15 01:11 PM
  3. SCrid2000's Avatar
    They already said they want to license BB10... The root of the issue is the same: NOBODY seems to be interested in licensing it.

    It doesn't matter if high end of entry level. No other company seems to bother with BB10.

    Ok.. So...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    OMG, you killed Slagman!
    kbz1960, Umaima_B_Dia and diegonei like this.
    01-10-15 01:26 PM
  4. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    OMG, you killed Slagman!
    Lol!

    Posted from an ME173X
    diegonei likes this.
    01-10-15 01:29 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    As stated, they tried and nobody was interested.

    I'm also not sure how you can scale down BB10 to work properly on cheaper hardware. Even the 1.5GB on the Z3 is a bit dodgy.

    So now, with the Rio and the Classic low-risk Foxconn offerings (as the OP has stated on many occasions uses two year old specs), I'm not sure what more you can really trim and still maintain a decent BB10 experience.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1949
    01-10-15 01:37 PM
  6. early2bed's Avatar
    Isn't Android free already for cheap smartphones? And you get the native apps.
    01-10-15 01:39 PM
  7. slagman5's Avatar
    Ah ok, that's why I wanted to ask, because I don't know anything about this topic. Thanks for the input. :-)

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Umaima_B_Dia and diegonei like this.
    01-10-15 02:09 PM
  8. m3mb3rsh1p's Avatar
    Personally, even though I'm an "entry level consumer" I feel a little special knowing that the OS powering my phone is used to operate mission-critical installations.

    I think the "cheap" angle would contradict the established enterprise market.

    I suppose the Linux kernel in Android could be replaced with QNX for added security, and we already have an Android runtime on BB10 as proof but the Linux kernel is "free as in beer" in this case.

    BlackBerry devices "are" that phone that could be built on QNX and they are excellent. BlackBerry would need something unique to draw companies in. Maybe their resurging enterprise image is that thing.
    01-10-15 03:15 PM
  9. scrapmetal58's Avatar
    I'd prefer that BlackBerry makes the low end phones, like the Z3 (Foxconn partnership), because I know that the quality would still be there as BlackBerry controls both have software and hardware. To license it out to other manufacturers just for low end phones, I think, would harm their image and quality - imagine what the reviewers would say then!

    Posted via CB10
    jojo beaconsfield and IggieX like this.
    01-10-15 09:46 PM
  10. vbdwork's Avatar
    My idea is just the opposite - high-end device from different manufacturer branded as BlackBerry, just like Nexus phones for Google. This way we can have good hardware devices quicker and with more attractive price.

    Posted via CB10
    jojo beaconsfield likes this.
    01-10-15 10:55 PM
  11. slagman5's Avatar
    I'd prefer that BlackBerry makes the low end phones, like the Z3 (Foxconn partnership), because I know that the quality would still be there as BlackBerry controls both have software and hardware. To license it out to other manufacturers just for low end phones, I think, would harm their image and quality - imagine what the reviewers would say then!

    Posted via CB10
    The problem is that even their "low end" phones are not that cheap. They just don't have the scale to be able to make a device and sell it for under $100...
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-10-15 11:08 PM
  12. slagman5's Avatar
    My idea is just the opposite - high-end device from different manufacturer branded as BlackBerry, just like Nexus phones for Google. This way we can have good hardware devices quicker and with more attractive price.

    Posted via CB10
    Except when it comes to the high end devices, I feel that is an area where people are far more picky about how well the phone works, and then you're basically putting your faith in other companies to make a product you're willing to have represent your brand. Cheap devices I see my friends with all of the time, perform completely poorly, yet when asked, they still say they think Android is the best but "oh, this is just a cheap phone."
    01-10-15 11:09 PM
  13. vbdwork's Avatar
    BB10 device can't be very cheap. OS only takes 1GB of RAM. Android JB and KK are more optimized, have better memory management and run OK even on 512MB RAM device. RAM is inside SoC, not a separate chip. Low cost entry-level SoC come with 1GB RAM or less.

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-15 12:05 AM
  14. slagman5's Avatar
    BB10 device can't be very cheap. OS only takes 1GB of RAM. Android JB and KK are more optimized, have better memory management and run OK even on 512MB RAM device. RAM is inside SoC, not a separate chip. Low cost entry-level SoC come with 1GB RAM or less.

    Posted via CB10
    RAM is incredibly cheap, not sure if there's another aspect that could drive prices up though...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-11-15 02:35 AM
  15. olee2222's Avatar
    There is windows phone for very cheap
    - runs fast,
    - my grandma can operate it
    - functionality of the OS is the same as high end devices

    My opinion is that the both the disadvantage and advantage of the BlackBerry 10 os is that it is isolated on the market, incompatible with Android, iOS and windows phone (the android runtime is not compatibility). It can be good for companies that value this, like Sony Entertainment, the German government, privacy movements.

    Otherwise, for consumers, the bb10 os has some nice features for consumers, like the gestures, but these are not essential, just nice to have.

    The main differentiating factor of BlackBerry devices is the keyboard, and the BlackBerry OS is more seen as a disadvantage for new users, that they either swallow or not.

    I would never give a BlackBerry to anyone in the family, the learning Curve is weeks.

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-15 03:03 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    There is windows phone for very cheap
    - runs fast,
    - my grandma can operate it
    - functionality of the OS is the same as high end devices

    My opinion is that the both the disadvantage and advantage of the BlackBerry 10 os is that it is isolated on the market, incompatible with Android, iOS and windows phone (the android runtime is not compatibility). It can be good for companies that value this, like Sony Entertainment, the German government, privacy movements.

    Otherwise, for consumers, the bb10 os has some nice features for consumers, like the gestures, but these are not essential, just nice to have.

    The main differentiating factor of BlackBerry devices is the keyboard, and the BlackBerry OS is more seen as a disadvantage for new users, that they either swallow or not.

    I would never give a BlackBerry to anyone in the family, the learning Curve is weeks.

    Posted via CB10
    All four major OSes are incompatible with each other.

    My whole family happily uses BB10 phones and would consider moving to anything else a step backwards. To each his own.

    This is not a thread comparing the merits of one platform versus another.

    The question was: should BlackBerry licence BB10 so that some other company can flood the market with cheap devices.

    My opinion was that BB10 works quite nicely on a 1.5Ghz dual core with 2GB of ram. We already have low-cost phones made by a low-risk partner with the Rio and Classic with these specs.

    How much lower would you want to go with specs, and how much would it actually save? I don't think BlackBerry's play right now should be a race to the bottom. They could never produce enough units to be price competitive in the low end market.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1949
    01-11-15 09:46 AM
  17. kbz1960's Avatar
    BB10 device can't be very cheap. OS only takes 1GB 2GB of RAM. Android JB and KK are more optimized, have better memory management and run OK even on 512MB RAM device. RAM is inside SoC, not a separate chip. Low cost entry-level SoC come with 1GB RAM or less.

    Posted via CB10
    FIFY
    01-11-15 10:11 AM
  18. vbdwork's Avatar
    RAM is incredibly cheap...
    It's a little different than adding more RAM to your PC. In most mobile devices memory module is stacked with the CPU/GPU logic, you can't just add cheap RAM to the device. You have to order the SoC this way. Custom orders are expensive.
    01-11-15 11:01 AM
  19. slagman5's Avatar
    It's a little different than adding more RAM to your PC. In most mobile devices memory module is stacked with the CPU/GPU logic, you can't just add cheap RAM to the device. You have to order the SoC this way. Custom orders are expensive.
    It doesn't need to be custom. There are already all kinds of combinations of CPU/GPU/RAM out there... Especially for companies that buy these in much larger quantities than BB will ever order them. That's exactly why it'll be cheaper for the other manufacturers rather than BB themselves.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-11-15 01:00 PM
  20. slagman5's Avatar
    All four major OSes are incompatible with each other.

    My whole family happily uses BB10 phones and would consider moving to anything else a step backwards. To each his own.

    This is not a thread comparing the merits of one platform versus another.

    The question was: should BlackBerry licence BB10 so that some other company can flood the market with cheap devices.

    My opinion was that BB10 works quite nicely on a 1.5Ghz dual core with 2GB of ram. We already have low-cost phones made by a low-risk partner with the Rio and Classic with these specs.

    How much lower would you want to go with specs, and how much would it actually save? I don't think BlackBerry's play right now should be a race to the bottom. They could never produce enough units to be price competitive in the low end market.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1949
    Classic isn't very "cheap." Unless you're rich, $450 USD isn't exactly a cheap device, especially when you have these $80 devices with very similar specs and $150 devices that have the same or better specs.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-11-15 01:02 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Classic isn't very "cheap." Unless you're rich, $450 USD isn't exactly a cheap device, especially when you have these $80 devices with very similar specs and $150 devices that have the same or better specs.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    You are talking selling price - not per unit manufacturing cost. I suspect Foxconn is building these things for less than $150 each.

    As far as selling price goes, when BlackBerry only sells 5-10M units a year, they probably need to include about $200 in developing costs with each unit (other manufacturers that sell 10x that number, need to charge only $20/unit). So that's $150 + $200 in costs, leaving $100 for profit, which is split with the seller and is usually discounted.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1949
    01-11-15 01:19 PM
  22. vbdwork's Avatar
    It doesn't need to be custom. There are already all kinds of combinations of CPU/GPU/RAM out there... Especially for companies that buy these in much larger quantities than BB will ever order them.
    None of the cheap SoC come with 2GB RAM, but it's technically possible if someone wants to do it. That's the main problem - no one wants to invest in BB10 devices.
    01-11-15 01:23 PM
  23. Gearheadaddy's Avatar
    BB10 eventually will not work on low end devices without lagging...bad idea IMHO...lagging will make BlackBerry look bad...not the way to go.
    At idle my Z10 uses more than 1GB ram...

    Crackberry Genius on Verizon Z10/10.3.1.1949
    01-11-15 06:54 PM
  24. slagman5's Avatar
    BB10 eventually will not work on low end devices without lagging...bad idea IMHO...lagging will make BlackBerry look bad...not the way to go.
    At idle my Z10 uses more than 1GB ram...

    Crackberry Genius on Verizon Z10/10.3.1.1949
    Yah, I know, it's not a real slim OS. Packed full of features though, lol.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    01-12-15 12:01 AM
  25. slagman5's Avatar
    You are talking selling price - not per unit manufacturing cost. I suspect Foxconn is building these things for less than $150 each.

    As far as selling price goes, when BlackBerry only sells 5-10M units a year, they probably need to include about $200 in developing costs with each unit (other manufacturers that sell 10x that number, need to charge only $20/unit). So that's $150 + $200 in costs, leaving $100 for profit, which is split with the seller and is usually discounted.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1949
    Well, that's exactly the point of having others make it...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    01-12-15 12:02 AM
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