07-26-18 05:00 PM
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  1. ChrisLeNeve's Avatar
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/1...fine-antitrust

    Google has been slapped with a 4 billion euro fine by the EU for their antitrust restrictions, meaning that:
    • Google will need to stop forcing manufacturers to preinstall Chrome and Google search in order to offer the Google Play Store on handsets
    • Google will also need to stop preventing phone makers from using forked versions of Android (so the Android Runtime on BB10 could still work?)


    Could BlackBerry keep working on the Android Runtime in BB10, and preinstall the PlayStore, if this is the case?
    07-18-18 09:00 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    OEMs will be free to offer forked versions of Android to sell beside official versions... but that doesn't mean that Google has to support those fork versions. If fact they have made it harder for forked versions to work with newer Android and Google Play - is there a mobile version of the runtime above 5.0?. That part is pretty much a moot point now.


    Sorry it's not a matter of BlackBerry continuing working on BB10 and the Runtime.... most those people left years ago. They'd have to be willing to start over and rebuild the BB10 development teams. And they still would not be allowed to put Googles proprietary app store on BB10.
    07-18-18 09:08 AM
  3. Emaderton3's Avatar
    And the runtime didn't work that well anyway.
    07-18-18 09:09 AM
  4. brookie229's Avatar
    And the runtime didn't work that well anyway.
    Disagree with that...I think it was a pretty good integration into BB10.
    PantherBlitz and gruv4u like this.
    07-18-18 09:35 AM
  5. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Disagree with that...I think it was a pretty good integration into BB10.
    I should clarify that I had a Q10. The Android apps were laggy and froze often. Also, the auto-reformat for the square screen sometimes did not work correctly, and certain buttons and/or controls were hidden or unresponsive. Plus, I had massive battery drain. I will say that the Passport seemed to handle them the best from what I have read in these forums.
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    07-18-18 10:44 AM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I should clarify that I had a Q10. The Android apps were laggy and froze often. Also, the auto-reformat for the square screen sometimes did not work correctly, and certain buttons and/or controls were hidden or unresponsive. Plus, I had massive battery drain. I will say that the Passport seemed to handle them the best from what I have read in these forums.
    It made a difference with what version BB10 is was too. A Passport running 10.3.3 for the last two years isn't the same as a Z10 or Z10 running 10.1 or 10.2

    But the is overhead with the runtime... I expect it's one reason BB10 was so power hungry. The Z10 had a normal sized battery compared with iOS and Android phones of that time. It's poor battery life was partly to blame on the runtime. Later BB10 phones got huge batteries to compensate... Passport and KEYone have almost the same size battery.
    07-18-18 10:56 AM
  7. brookie229's Avatar
    I should clarify that I had a Q10. The Android apps were laggy and froze often. Also, the auto-reformat for the square screen sometimes did not work correctly, and certain buttons and/or controls were hidden or unresponsive. Plus, I had massive battery drain. I will say that the Passport seemed to handle them the best from what I have read in these forums.
    I never had a Q10 so that could be the reason for your experience. My Passport handled the runtime fairly well, all things considered, as you've noted.

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-18 10:57 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/1...fine-antitrust

    Google has been slapped with a 4 billion euro fine by the EU for their antitrust restrictions, meaning that:
    • Google will need to stop forcing manufacturers to preinstall Chrome and Google search in order to offer the Google Play Store on handsets
    • Google will also need to stop preventing phone makers from using forked versions of Android (so the Android Runtime on BB10 could still work?)


    Could BlackBerry keep working on the Android Runtime in BB10, and preinstall the PlayStore, if this is the case?
    No.

    Of course, even if they wanted to, and even if they could, no one is left there that cares - and no customers would pony up the billions it would cost to start it all up again.
    glwerry and Fret Madden like this.
    07-18-18 11:06 AM
  9. ChrisLeNeve's Avatar
    No.

    Of course, even if they wanted to, and even if they could, no one is left there that cares - and no customers would pony up the billions it would cost to start it all up again.
    Billions? Sure, they'd need to get the BB10 development back and upskill them. But the OS is already there, the biggest part of the thing exists. So I don't really thing it's unrealistic... even though, as you say, no one cares about it anymore.

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-18 12:32 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Billions? Sure, they'd need to get the BB10 development back and upskill them. But the OS is already there, the biggest part of the thing exists. So I don't really thing it's unrealistic... even though, as you say, no one cares about it anymore.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes billions. The math has been done here before.

    I estimate $2 billion and 2 years before there is anything to show for it.

    The entire OS has to be rebuilt for modern hardware.
    07-18-18 12:36 PM
  11. glwerry's Avatar
    Billions? Sure, they'd need to get the BB10 development back and upskill them. But the OS is already there, the biggest part of the thing exists. So I don't really thing it's unrealistic... even though, as you say, no one cares about it anymore.

    Posted via CB10
    Even if conite is out by a factor of 100%, his statement of "The entire OS has to be rebuilt for modern hardware" is bang on the money.

    BB10 is NOT coming back, BB has gotten rid of EVERYONE who worked on it.

    When you say "the biggest part of the thing exists", that's mis-leading. I have spent more than 35 years doing software maintenance - picking up other people's code and working on it.
    I can say from long and bitter experience that it is extremely difficult to jump into someone else's code and become familiar with it and start being productive with it.

    The code being there is NOT that much of an advantage. What would be more critical is to have PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH THE CODE. That's where your advantage would be.
    Unfortunately, those people are scattered to the wind.
    ppeters914, Mecca EL and pdr733 like this.
    07-18-18 01:13 PM
  12. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    The entire OS has to be rebuilt for modern hardware.
    Unless you’re only updating it for existing hardware, and then it’s even more pointless, because you’re guaranteed to have no paying customers of which to speak.
    glwerry likes this.
    07-18-18 01:15 PM
  13. joeldf's Avatar
    Billions? Sure, they'd need to get the BB10 development back and upskill them. But the OS is already there, the biggest part of the thing exists. So I don't really thing it's unrealistic... even though, as you say, no one cares about it anymore.

    Posted via CB10
    Just adding to the previous comments. BB10 was written for hardware that is between 4 to 6 years old now. The newest, the 801 in the Passport, was originally released in Feb of 2014. And even it has been EOF'd. Qualcomm wouldn't even write graphics drivers for the SOC for Android 7.

    So, yes, it would have to start nearly from scratch.

    Besides, BlackBerry is done with it. No amount of money would give them a reason to bother now. It was a money pit at the beginning and would be even more of one now.

    You can dream, but no sense in hoping for it to become a reality.
    glwerry likes this.
    07-18-18 01:18 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Unless you’re only updating it for existing hardware, and then it’s even more pointless, because you’re guaranteed to have no paying customers of which to speak.
    Plus with all the new APIs and security features of recent versions of Android, the notion of it being able to exist within a little VM bubble inside an archaic OS is exceedingly far-fetched.
    07-18-18 01:21 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If BlackBerry want update the Android Runtime... they could have done it with 4.4 (2013) or 5.0 (2014) a both were release while BlackBerry was actively developing for BB10 (before they were just supporting it).

    They didn't because it was going to cost them too much to rework BB10 to support those new APIs back then.

    But as I said... this ruling changes nothing. Well it would indicated that BlackBerry is free to use a forked version of Android along with an Official version, so there is that. But BB10 wouldn't get an official Google Play Store, it would still be stuck without apps.

    In a way I think it's a dumb ruling... it's mostly about forcing Google to de-Google their phones. Pull out services like Search and Chrome. Maybe next they have to pull out Gmail and GMaps. What about Apple and Safari, Facetime, iMessage, Apple Maps?
    07-18-18 01:52 PM
  16. Ment's Avatar
    It will be a few years before Google has to pay a red cent, way too late for BB or anyone in their position. They are still appealing the multi-billion EU fine for search that happened last year. That one won't get resolved until next year.
    07-18-18 01:56 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    It will be a few years before Google has to pay a red cent, way too late for BB or anyone in their position. They are still appealing the multi-billion EU fine for search that happened last year. That one won't get resolved until next year.
    Alphabet also made $10 billion in profits last quarter alone. So....
    07-18-18 02:15 PM
  18. joeldf's Avatar
    If BlackBerry want update the Android Runtime... they could have done it with 4.4 (2013) or 5.0 (2014) a both were release while BlackBerry was actively developing for BB10 (before they were just supporting it).
    Well, to be fair, BlackBerry only bumped up the runtime from the original 2.3 Gingerbread in 10.0 to 4.2.2 Jellybean in 10.2.0 at the end of 2013. Then, the bump to 4.3 in May of 2014.

    So they were pretty far behind actual android development to begin with.

    By March of 2015, with the tease of the slider at that year's MWC, BlackBerry was obviously already dealing with Google, but couldn't say anything, which is why the device that became the Priv was shown with a backlit stuck-on BB10 screen.
    07-18-18 05:34 PM
  19. kvndoom's Avatar
    Yes billions. The math has been done here before.

    I estimate $2 billion and 2 years before there is anything to show for it.

    The entire OS has to be rebuilt for modern hardware.
    Naw I heard 2 guys working weekends could do it.
    07-18-18 06:07 PM
  20. co4nd's Avatar
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/1...fine-antitrust

    Google has been slapped with a 4 billion euro fine by the EU for their antitrust restrictions, meaning that:
    • Google will need to stop forcing manufacturers to preinstall Chrome and Google search in order to offer the Google Play Store on handsets
    • Google will also need to stop preventing phone makers from using forked versions of Android (so the Android Runtime on BB10 could still work?)


    Could BlackBerry keep working on the Android Runtime in BB10, and preinstall the PlayStore, if this is the case?
    Even if this meant Blackberry could do those things, and I have no idea if it does, you still are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Blackberry would still need enough people to pay money for BB10 phones. It didn't work before so why would it work now?
    pdr733 likes this.
    07-18-18 08:44 PM
  21. DonHB's Avatar
    Well,
    • QNX already has a 64-bit Neutrino working on Qualcomm's hardware.

    • QNX says ease of supporting new hardware is a feature of Neutrino.

    • 64-bit Neutrino can run 32-bit code. Which means existing 32-bit UI and apps can be made to work on 64-bit Neutrino.

    • Boot strapping a platform costs more than maintenance and new development.

    • Hardware exists that supports Hardware Root of trust so that no inventory needs be invested in to support BB10. An autoloader to use on a BB partner device (e.g. Motion running Android) is a no inventory solution.

    • All the above puts Conites numbers into question.


    So, ultimately confrontation with co4nd's 800 pound gorilla is the bottom line.
    07-18-18 09:07 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    Well,
    • QNX already has a 64-bit Neutrino working on Qualcomm's hardware.

    • QNX says ease of supporting new hardware is a feature of Neutrino.

    • 64-bit Neutrino can run 32-bit code. Which means existing 32-bit UI and apps can be made to work on 64-bit Neutrino.

    • Boot strapping a platform costs more than maintenance and new development.

    • Hardware exists that supports Hardware Root of trust so that no inventory needs be invested in to support BB10. An autoloader to use on a BB partner device (e.g. Motion running Android) is a no inventory solution.

    • All the above puts Conites numbers into question.


    So, ultimately confrontation with co4nd's 800 pound gorilla is the bottom line.
    And none of this means anything for BB10.
    07-18-18 09:24 PM
  23. bobshine's Avatar
    Well,
    • QNX already has a 64-bit Neutrino working on Qualcomm's hardware.

    • QNX says ease of supporting new hardware is a feature of Neutrino.

    • 64-bit Neutrino can run 32-bit code. Which means existing 32-bit UI and apps can be made to work on 64-bit Neutrino.

    • Boot strapping a platform costs more than maintenance and new development.

    • Hardware exists that supports Hardware Root of trust so that no inventory needs be invested in to support BB10. An autoloader to use on a BB partner device (e.g. Motion running Android) is a no inventory solution.

    • All the above puts Conites numbers into question.


    So, ultimately confrontation with co4nd's 800 pound gorilla is the bottom line.
    You’re talking about QNX, which had been actively maintaining and upgrading their OS. To my knowledge, it’s not BB10
    07-18-18 09:25 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    You’re talking about QNX, which had been actively maintaining and upgrading their OS. To my knowledge, it’s not BB10
    Correct.

    QNX to BB10 is like a concrete foundation to an entire house. You might save a few bucks for the concrete.
    07-18-18 09:26 PM
  25. bobshine's Avatar
    Correct.

    QNX to BB10 is like a concrete foundation to an entire house. You might save a few bucks for the concrete.
    And if I recall, BB10 was build either on top or based on QNX. So they would have to redo all the development to modernize the OS.
    07-18-18 09:40 PM
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