08-23-14 11:27 AM
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  1. ezapper2's Avatar
    No, they needed to supplement their strengths with improvements.
    Not drop them altogether.
    Again, there wasn't a new legacy device for 2 years, and the 9900 was out specced at release.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with you but you need to understand bb10 is brand new. There are reasons why they haven't incorporated this stuff yet. It will probably come back eventually. Time....

    Posted Via CB10 Z10
    04-15-13 04:51 PM
  2. bobauckland's Avatar
    I have absolutely no problem with the concept that someone liked something better on an old device or system.

    I have a serious problem with someone who takes such personal preferences and turns it into a never-ending crusade, who throws around all sorts of ridiculous "gloom and doom predictions" as a result of not getting their way, who trivializes the opinion of people who disagree with them and keeps picking fights with people who disagree with them.

    I have a large list of things that I don't like about Blackberry10, some of which were not issues with the previous platform. The difference between me and the negative nellies is I don't go around incessantly bellyaching about it and picking fights with everyone that disagrees with me about those things.

    Like I have pointed out many times before, the fact that RIM's competitors cleaned its clock and ate it for lunch during a period where RIM had "all of those legacy BBOS things" and their competitors did NOT, should be proof enough that the world doesn't care much about them.

    So you can keep banging that drum until the end of time, don't be surprised if you are mostly just listening to a lot of echoes in that echo chamber of yours while the rest of the world is focused on other things that are more important to them.

    I've already acknowledged that there is some value in some of those old features. At the same time I also emphasize that when looking at the BIG PICTURE, it's not hard to understand why Blackberry's priorities may not dovetail with that of what appears to be a relative minority of their current and potential future users.
    We'll have to agree to disagree, because in my view, and you will not shake me on this, you come into every discussion trying to convince people why they're daft for clinging to ancient tech when we should all get with the program and accept the changes in BB10 as being better.
    You trivialise other people's opinions and turn it into a never ending crusade for pushing your own views.

    The only difference in my opinion, between you and the people you describe yourself as having a serious problem with, is that you push your opinion across in an optimistic manner. Uninformed most of the time, but optimistic.

    In the end, BB10 will either bring in the features that aren't here, which will reflect on their continued importance and you being utterly wrong.
    Or they might not, and succeed, in which case I'd be utterly wrong.
    Or they might not, and fail, and I'd be sadly right.

    At the moment BB10 doesn't quite fit as a BlackBerry, and doesn't have the apps and functionality to compete with Android or iOS. I fail to see how that's an improvement or 'more competitive'

    In my opinion, if you really believe in all of your views, you should be rooting for BlackBerry to adopt Android.
    This way, they would be moving into what other competitors are doing already, like EAS mail, but also get the benefit of the app store of Android.

    Having your own OS without any decent differentiating factors that matter for consumers is not a great idea. That's my opinion.
    It's worth no more or less than yours at this point.
    04-15-13 05:19 PM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    More of the same from you Bob, answered already.

    As an example of perspective:

    Mobile device review site PocketNow comments on the Z10, as compared to the iPhone 5: "Best email experience on ANY DEVICE". Basically they recommend the iPhone because it has more apps.




    Perspective.
    04-15-13 10:38 PM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    More of the same from you Bob, answered already.

    As an example of perspective:

    Mobile device review site PocketNow comments on the Z10, as compared to the iPhone 5: "Best email experience on ANY DEVICE". Basically they recommend the iPhone because it has more apps.




    Perspective.
    Yeah, tell that to my accounts that are refusing to send thanks to the two months old smtp bug.

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-13 01:45 AM
  5. Omnitech's Avatar
    Yeah, tell that'll to my accounts that are refusing to send thanks to the two months old smtp bug.

    The point is simple: people frequently fantasize all sorts of agreement with their personal POV that simply doesn't exist.

    Here are some examples of why I think there is much to be grateful for in how BBRY has allocated resources the past couple of years:

    • Best onscreen keyboard in the biz, Q10 will be the best physical keyboard by far
    • 100,000+ apps
    • 90 sec boot time
    • NO OS restarts (6-9 minutes on my OS6 device) every single time I update some small trivial app
    • Incremental OS updates
    • Large touchscreen
    • Unique features that MOST people can immediately appreciate, not email minutiae hidden 3-layers deep in menus that the average person will never even encounter
    • A web browser that actually works worth a d*mn
    • Final stake in the heart of the "stopwatch of death"
    • Exchange ActiveSync native on the device. This is HUGE.
    • Larger/higher res screen than iPhone, WITH removable battery, expandable storage and still relatively small/light
    • Android runtime - this multi-platform environment is COMPLETELY UNIQUE in the world
    • One of the best SW development environments in the world and the most supportive company for developers in the industry


    I could go on but hopefully you get the point. There is much to like about what Heins & Co have done, and most of the email issues people keep crowing about, in my view, are small potatoes compared to items like the above, because in my view those things are far more likely to gain customers for BBRY than various forms of email esoterica that mostly apply to small minorities of the userbase.

    Yes it would be nice to have "save locally" for email, yes it would be nice to have >30 days sync timeframe (coming soon), yes it would be nice to be able to tweak some elements of email formatting and see message headers and bla bla bla, but I just don't personally think those things trump all the other stuff.
    04-16-13 01:58 AM
  6. ssbtech's Avatar
    and most of the email issues people keep crowing about, in my view, are small potatoes compared to items like the above,
    Until you need email for running your business.
    bobauckland and donmateo like this.
    04-16-13 02:10 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The point is simple: people frequently fantasize all sorts of agreement with their personal POV that simply doesn't exist.

    Here are some examples of why I think there is much to be grateful for in how BBRY has allocated resources the past couple of years:

    • Best onscreen keyboard in the biz, Q10 will be the best physical keyboard by far
    • 100,000+ apps
    • 90 sec boot time
    • NO OS restarts (6-9 minutes on my OS6 device) every single time I update some small trivial app
    • Incremental OS updates
    • Large touchscreen
    • Unique features that MOST people can immediately appreciate, not email minutiae hidden 3-layers deep in menus that the average person will never even encounter
    • A web browser that actually works worth a d*mn
    • Final stake in the heart of the "stopwatch of death"
    • Exchange ActiveSync native on the device. This is HUGE.
    • Larger/higher res screen than iPhone, WITH removable battery, expandable storage and still relatively small/light
    • Android runtime - this multi-platform environment is COMPLETELY UNIQUE in the world
    • One of the best SW development environments in the world and the most supportive company for developers in the industry


    I could go on but hopefully you get the point. There is much to like about what Heins & Co have done, and most of the email issues people keep crowing about, in my view, are small potatoes compared to items like the above, because in my view those things are far more likely to gain customers for BBRY than various forms of email esoterica that mostly apply to small minorities of the userbase.

    Yes it would be nice to have "save locally" for email, yes it would be nice to have >30 days sync timeframe (coming soon), yes it would be nice to be able to tweak some elements of email formatting and see message headers and bla bla bla, but I just don't personally think those things trump all the other stuff.
    I guarantee you anybody that has this problem and they're using their phone for business have already returned it or they went back to their previous phone. Two months without a fix and without acknowledgement is a long time to put up with, no matter how nice everything else is.

    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland likes this.
    04-16-13 02:21 AM
  8. bobauckland's Avatar
    The point is simple: people frequently fantasize all sorts of agreement with their personal POV that simply doesn't exist.

    Here are some examples of why I think there is much to be grateful for in how BBRY has allocated resources the past couple of years:

    • Best onscreen keyboard in the biz, Q10 will be the best physical keyboard by far
    • 100,000+ apps
    • 90 sec boot time
    • NO OS restarts (6-9 minutes on my OS6 device) every single time I update some small trivial app
    • Incremental OS updates
    • Large touchscreen
    • Unique features that MOST people can immediately appreciate, not email minutiae hidden 3-layers deep in menus that the average person will never even encounter
    • A web browser that actually works worth a d*mn
    • Final stake in the heart of the "stopwatch of death"
    • Exchange ActiveSync native on the device. This is HUGE.
    • Larger/higher res screen than iPhone, WITH removable battery, expandable storage and still relatively small/light
    • Android runtime - this multi-platform environment is COMPLETELY UNIQUE in the world
    • One of the best SW development environments in the world and the most supportive company for developers in the industry


    I could go on but hopefully you get the point. There is much to like about what Heins & Co have done, and most of the email issues people keep crowing about, in my view, are small potatoes compared to items like the above, because in my view those things are far more likely to gain customers for BBRY than various forms of email esoterica that mostly apply to small minorities of the userbase.

    Yes it would be nice to have "save locally" for email, yes it would be nice to have >30 days sync timeframe (coming soon), yes it would be nice to be able to tweak some elements of email formatting and see message headers and bla bla bla, but I just don't personally think those things trump all the other stuff.
    Your points are all valid for every other platform out there. That's my point.
    Except for the first point which is debatable to many users who like to Swype.
    And your last point which is very very debatable, just ask the OpenWhatsApp dev.
    The additional points, that BlackBerry had on legacy, don't add value to the BB10 equation.

    Looks like you're dead set on not understanding or accepting what others are saying though, so I'll back away.
    As you claim that the Z10 has the best email performance of any device, I'll back away quickly.
    Just wow.
    04-16-13 02:58 AM
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
    Until you need email for running your business.
    Strange that many people are doing just that with the Z10.

    Perspective.

    Even you have a Z10 now.
    John Pawling likes this.
    04-16-13 04:32 AM
  10. Kimberlee's Avatar
    I've been told my Blackberry Technical Support that the option to delete "on mailbox & handhled" and "on handheld" will be coming shortly to Z10 in a software upgrade. Below is the email I received from Blackberry:

    Subject: RE: BlackBerry INC000026289414 | BB Z 10, FE- Ability to either delete an Email message 'on handheld' or on 'On Mailbox & Handheld''

    Hello
    As mentioned on our interaction on the phone, there will be an option to delete on handheld only in a new OS update for the device. As to when that will be released, there is no time frame set or specified. Development of this feature has been accepted and it has been noted that others have been effected as well, however it may take some time for the development team to implement it.

    In regards to this information, do you have any further questions or concerns on this ticket that I may assist you with at this time? I will follow up on this case on Monday as well.

    Thank you again for contacting us. Have a great day.

    Sincerely,
    BlackBerry Technical Support
    BlackBerry
    04-16-13 10:06 AM
  11. ssbtech's Avatar
    Even you have a Z10 now.
    Thankfully, my email usage is quite light, my need to send emails even lighter.
    04-16-13 12:05 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Strange that many people are doing just that with the Z10.

    Perspective.

    Even you have a Z10 now.
    And as you well know many can't thanks to the smtp "Bug" would you last for two months?

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-13 12:20 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    And as you well know many can't thanks to the smtp "Bug" would you last for two months?

    Yes, the SMTP bug was/is a major problem, no doubt about it.

    I could have just sat here and incessantly griped about it and berated anything having to do with Blackberry with that as an excuse, or I could try to help people who were experiencing the problem and do what I could to accelerate the company acknowledging the issue and fixing it.

    I chose the latter course. The fixes are already hitting the street.
    04-16-13 01:48 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yes, the SMTP bug was/is a major problem, no doubt about it.

    I could have just sat here and incessantly griped about it and berated anything having to do with Blackberry with that as an excuse, or I could try to help people who were experiencing the problem and do what I could to accelerate the company acknowledging the issue and fixing it.

    I chose the latter course. The fixes are already hitting the street.
    True, I give you that, you went out of your way to help people. But you can't say "Already" when we're now two months later.

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-13 02:04 PM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    True, I give you that, you went out of your way to help people. But you can't say "Already" when we're now two months later.
    Yes, I would have wished the problem never happened at all. BBRY is clearly resource-constrained. They recently laid-off thousands of workers.

    On the other hand, having to filter all minor OS updates and patches through the carriers is like trying to pass a camel through the eye of a needle.
    04-16-13 02:19 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yes, I would have wished the problem never happened at all. BBRY is clearly resource-constrained. They recently laid-off thousands of workers.

    On the other hand, having to filter all minor OS updates and patches through the carriers is like trying to pass a camel through the eye of a needle.
    Well that was one of the problems BB10 was supposed to fix. It's no different to BBOS in this respect.

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-13 02:31 PM
  17. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    Well that was one of the problems BB10 was supposed to fix. It's no different to BBOS in this respect.

    Posted via CB10
    Now that point I agree with. BB should do updates the same way Apple does, when they are ready to push it, they push it. Apple does not look for carrier permission. Christ, BB does not even have to update the entire OS at once. Nightly push of "corrected" modules.

    BB is able to push updates for AW and such. The email module would be small enough to push from their servers alone. Profiles module, maybe a tad bit larger, but third party apps would need to update to use the profiles as well. If they are not capable now as it is.
    04-16-13 03:39 PM
  18. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    I guarantee you anybody that has this problem and they're using their phone for business have already returned it or they went back to their previous phone. Two months without a fix and without acknowledgement is a long time to put up with, no matter how nice everything else is.

    Posted via CB10
    That's quite the generalization. I can guarantee you your statement is unfounded.

    Posted via CB10 on my Zed10.
    04-16-13 07:31 PM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    Well that was one of the problems BB10 was supposed to fix. It's no different to BBOS in this respect.
    And where did that promise come from? Never saw it.

    Blackberry is in the same boat with every other smartphone maker except Apple on that.

    Repeat: Apple is the ONLY smartphone vendor that I know of that is in a position today to release updates without the carriers acting as gatekeeper.
    southlander and John Pawling like this.
    04-16-13 11:08 PM
  20. bobauckland's Avatar
    And where did that promise come from? Never saw it.

    Blackberry is in the same boat with every other smartphone maker except Apple on that.

    Repeat: Apple is the ONLY smartphone vendor that I know of that is in a position today to release updates without the carriers acting as gatekeeper.
    I think Nexus devices from Google get updates directly as well.
    04-17-13 02:45 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And where did that promise come from? Never saw it.

    Blackberry is in the same boat with every other smartphone maker except Apple on that.

    Repeat: Apple is the ONLY smartphone vendor that I know of that is in a position today to release updates without the carriers acting as gatekeeper.
    From this very site boosting about QNX benefits that never materialised in the end.

    Posted via CB10
    04-17-13 03:00 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That's quite the generalization. I can guarantee you your statement is unfounded.

    Posted via CB10 on my Zed10.
    Ok, what would you do if your brand new phone can't email attachments or reply to emails for two months with no fix in site or an official acknowledgement of the problem. What would you do?

    Posted via CB10
    04-17-13 03:02 AM
  23. southlander's Avatar
    OP. If delete from hand held is truly critically important you would probably need to stick with a legacy BlackBerry until (if) it makes it to BlackBerry 10. That is why BlackBerry still runs BIS and still sells the traditional BlackBerry devices. Which is exactly what they said they'd do.

    There is a transition going on at this time from traditional BlackBerrys to BlackBerry 10 being built out. There was zero chance BlackBerry 10 would debut with every traditional feature.

    So it just depends on how critical this is to you.

    Posted via BlackBerry 10
    04-17-13 03:05 AM
  24. southlander's Avatar
    Ok, what would you do if your brand new phone can't email attachments or reply to emails for two months with no fix in site or an official acknowledgement of the problem. What would you do?

    Posted via CB10
    If it is a BlackBerry 10 device I would check blackberry world to see if there is an app I could use to get by until a patch resolves things. I used to use K9 on Android and it was quite nice.

    Posted via BlackBerry 10
    04-17-13 03:07 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    If it is a BlackBerry 10 device I would check blackberry world to see if there is an app I could use to get by until a patch resolves things. I used to use K9 on Android and it was quite nice.

    Posted via BlackBerry 10
    And have no integration with the hub and other apps? No integration (I presume) with the share menu? Put my work emails trough a third party android app?

    Anyway, so how long would you be prepared to put up with that? 3 months? 6 months? What would be your limit?

    Posted via CB10
    04-17-13 03:23 AM
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