08-23-14 11:27 AM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    What about the option of report as spam, which I had on my 9900...I found it handy as sometimes I'd get a spam email come through even though I have filters set up in my gmail account but for some odd reason they still come through on my z10.

    That option doesn't seem to exist anymore, which now means that I have to log onto my gmail account from my pc and mark that email as spam.
    "Mark as spam" is email provider/server specific. It only has special meaning in concert with what happens on the email system back end. For the major webmail providers, it generally means not only will it be removed from visibility in your mailbox, flagging such messages also feeds that information back to the provider to (hopefully) improve the accuracy of their spam blocking going forward.

    So you can't implement such a feature "generically" without some sort of proprietary tie-in to an email provider. In the old days of BIS, RIM had a few special "plug-ins" for certain services like Yahoo and Gmail, that linked to some of that proprietary functionality. Whereas in BB10 their focus seems to be on standards-based email functionality.

    In some case that might mean you lose functionality (ie no more "push" email from Yahoo), but one of the problems these days is a large percentage of those companies are now also direct smartphone competitors (ie Google, Microsoft) and might be getting more tight-fisted about allowing other smartphone competitors to access their "goodies". Many have speculated that this may be at least partly behind Google's decision to drop Exchange ActiveSync as a connection option for their free email customers.
    Spawn12 likes this.
    03-13-13 07:48 AM
  2. pandapurple's Avatar
    Does it have to be so complicated to get a spam function? I don't suppose everyone needs high level intelligence to scour the mail server for spam mail. I personally just want it local on my Z10. That once I click on email as being spam mail, all emails in the future from the same address falls into a spam folder, and I don't even need to see them. A filter at work. On my iMac, I sometimes get advertisements. I just have to click Junk Mail and the emails goes straight to a Junk folder.
    Spawn12 likes this.
    03-13-13 08:05 AM
  3. Spawn12's Avatar
    Does it have to be so complicated to get a spam function? I don't suppose everyone needs high level intelligence to scour the mail server for spam mail. I personally just want it local on my Z10. That once I click on email as being spam mail, all emails in the future from the same address falls into a spam folder, and I don't even need to see them. A filter at work. On my iMac, I sometimes get advertisements. I just have to click Junk Mail and the emails goes straight to a Junk folder.
    This is exactly what i miss about my 9900, whenever i used to get a stupid spam email...all it took was for me to click on my bb button, scroll to report as spam and bam its gone...even when i checked my gmail account on my pc, that email would be sitting in my spam box.

    Like i said i have quite a few filters on my gmail account but sometimes a spam email will get through even though i have a filter set for it. Ive checked this against my S3 and what happens is that if i get a spam email, it will come through on my z10 but it wont show up on my s3 even if i go into the gmail app on my s3, it shows up in the spam box.

    So why the heck does my Z10 pick it up?? even though i have filters set on my gmail account. The more i use the email function on the z10, the more im finding it fustrating and very lacking in options.

    Just not good enough.
    03-13-13 08:12 AM
  4. kill_9's Avatar
    If the contents of the inbox are different on handheld and server, they're not synced; that much is certain. Sync means any addition or deletion in one is mirrored in the other.

    What I'm suggesting as an alternative would preserve true sync between the two, allowing the user to leave email in the inbox but make it invisible on the handheld, until needed again. It would have no effect on the server, because it wouldn't actually change the contents of the inbox. This would preserve the "delete on handheld" experience from legacy BBOS, but would actually be better, since the invisible email could be made visible again if needed. In BBOS, once an email was deleted from the handheld, you couldn't get it back without resending it to yourself from the server.
    BlackBerry Enterprise Server 4 and 5 allowed you to delete an email from the handheld while retaining it on the mail server and this seemed to be exactly what people wanted. If I later want access to that email from the handheld all I need do was use the search feature of the email client. It was the perfect solution because it reduced storage demands on the handheld while preserving access to historical email.
    03-13-13 11:17 AM
  5. kill_9's Avatar
    okay....here's a question.....what if....a new version of BB comes along...and people want to trade in their BBz10 for the new one. Wouldn't you want to wipe out everything? I usually do before i trade in my old phone. Now, if you do that....wouldn't all your emails and fb messages and whatever be deleted from the server as well?!
    BlackBerry OS 4/5/6 allow you to security wipe a semartphone without affecting the email on the server. Organizations frequently archive a former employee's email and network drive contents for a period of time post-termination. The email synchronization as implemented in BlackBerry OS 10 is flawed and reflects a lack of real world use-case evaluation by the software development team.
    03-13-13 11:23 AM
  6. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    This comment makes absolutely zero sense. The email sync is called ActiveSync and is not BlackBerry's implementation - it is what true synchronization is and should be. How is it flawed? If you wipe a device it has absolutely nothing to do with any server contents - archived or not.

    I seriously cannot believe how people can't wrap their heads around this.

    If you don't want to see it on your device, FOLDER IT!

    BlackBerry OS 4/5/6 allow you to security wipe a semartphone without affecting the email on the server. Organizations frequently archive a former employee's email and network drive contents for a period of time post-termination. The email synchronization as implemented in BlackBerry OS 10 is flawed and reflects a lack of real world use-case evaluation by the software development team.
    03-13-13 03:11 PM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    FYI, most of the "mark as spam" people are talking about in regards to Apple email clients or other email clients (ie dedicated Gmail or Yahoo email clients on some mobile platforms) are just a rule automating "put future emails from that sender into spam folder" or "delete future emails from that sender".

    Very simple tech, actually. But I don't know if any other smartphone platforms' native email clients have configurable rules to file messages. It's common with desktop email clients.
    03-13-13 03:14 PM
  8. ssbtech's Avatar
    This comment makes absolutely zero sense. The email sync is called ActiveSync and is not BlackBerry's implementation - it is what true synchronization is and should be. How is it flawed? If you wipe a device it has absolutely nothing to do with any server contents - archived or not.

    I seriously cannot believe how people can't wrap their heads around this.
    We understand what synchronization is perfectly well, and we still don't want it.

    I seriously cannot believe how people can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone wants a snychronized inbox, calendar and contacts. Some things we just don't want on our phones.
    03-13-13 03:33 PM
  9. dew066's Avatar
    If you want you can create a label in Gmail called garbage and then flag emails that you want to disappear from handheld but stay accessible. Just a work around idea.

    Don't forget to flag the option in BlackBerry to not show filed messages.

    Posted via CB10
    03-13-13 05:12 PM
  10. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    The OP that I quoted apparently had a different understanding of sync. Anyway, sync is the "now"...but apparently a number of people want to return to the 7250 days.

    I've spoken with a number of VP's at my company and all agree that sync is what is current and what we will use. Again, if you need to emulate the old days then file messages in folders. It's really quite simple and is more efficient and clean.

    We understand what synchronization is perfectly well, and we still don't want it.

    I seriously cannot believe how people can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone wants a snychronized inbox, calendar and contacts. Some things we just don't want on our phones.
    03-13-13 08:11 PM
  11. ssbtech's Avatar
    I see on my PlayBook it doesn't show any emails in folders I've created in my email account on the ISP's webmail service. (EAS) At least with POP3 the messages are downloaded and sorted automatically for me via Outlook message rules. According to the PlayBook, the message I sent myself (from Hotmail to Shaw) doesn't exist anywhere. It's also not downloadable with Outlook.

    I also see that the "Message sync timeframe" is limited to no more than 30 days. What happens if I want to use my mobile device to read messages older than 30 days? With the POP3 configuration, I can leave messages on the device for as long as I want.

    EAS might be acceptable for the corporate world (for which it was originally developed) but for home users it's the worst possible technology.
    03-13-13 09:20 PM
  12. ssbtech's Avatar
    I've spoken with a number of VP's at my company and all agree that sync is what is current and what we will use. Again, if you need to emulate the old days then file messages in folders. It's really quite simple and is more efficient and clean.
    Are they aware that if a phone is lost and not passworded protected, all the emails (which may contain confidential information) will be accessible until it's discovered that the phone has been lost?

    The nice thing about BIS was that you could delete confidential emails from the phone and still have access to them once you returned to your PC.
    03-13-13 09:22 PM
  13. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    Are they aware that if a phone is lost and not passworded protected, all the emails (which may contain confidential information) will be accessible until it's discovered that the phone has been lost?

    The nice thing about BIS was that you could delete confidential emails from the phone and still have access to them once you returned to your PC.
    Lol...not password protected? Now why on earth would anyone in my enterprise have a corporate mobile device with no password or wipe ability? That's just ludicrous!

    Seriously though...not a concern as all our devices are either on BES or a reasonable facsimile for the other crap(ple) we might be using.

    Posted via CB10
    03-13-13 09:31 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    I see on my PlayBook it doesn't show any emails in folders I've created in my email account on the ISP's webmail service. (EAS) At least with POP3 the messages are downloaded and sorted automatically for me via Outlook message rules. According to the PlayBook, the message I sent myself (from Hotmail to Shaw) doesn't exist anywhere. It's also not downloadable with Outlook.

    I have never used a Playbook except for a few minutes poking one at the store, but that is a feature of the email client. Most IMAP or EAS clients allow you to pick from any of the existing folders on the server and "subscribe" to them if you like. Generally by default, the Inbox is subscribed-to, perhaps the Trash folder, not much else.


    I also see that the "Message sync timeframe" is limited to no more than 30 days. What happens if I want to use my mobile device to read messages older than 30 days? With the POP3 configuration, I can leave messages on the device for as long as I want.
    Not if you already deleted it on the handheld.

    The 30-day limit is currently a limitation on the Blackberry email clients, they are reputedly planning to expand the upper-limit at some point. In the meantime, there is a "remote search" feature for EAS mailboxes that should allow you to search for almost anything in the mail store, as long as the server admin has not set a policy to block or limit remote search.


    EAS might be acceptable for the corporate world (for which it was originally developed) but for home users it's the worst possible technology.
    Many millions of other people would disagree with that, I would imagine.
    NoAhB0Dy likes this.
    03-13-13 09:45 PM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    Are they aware that if a phone is lost and not passworded protected, all the emails (which may contain confidential information) will be accessible until it's discovered that the phone has been lost?

    Not password-protected? Is this actually from the guy who keeps screaming bloody-murder about how allegedly a syncing email setup is a terrible failing from a security and confidentiality POV?
    03-13-13 09:48 PM
  16. ssbtech's Avatar
    I have never used a Playbook except for a few minutes poking one at the store, but that is a feature of the email client. Most IMAP or EAS clients allow you to pick from any of the existing folders on the server and "subscribe" to them if you like. Generally by default, the Inbox is subscribed-to, perhaps the Trash folder, not much else.
    Subscribe to email folders? Why wouldn't it simply show all the folders by default? In the case of the PlayBook, it showed the folder I created, but it didn't show the message in it. POP3 doesn't have device compatibility issues like this.

    I have 45+ folders set up in Outlook. If I was to replicate this in Webmail, are you saying that I'd have to manually subscribe to each folder?

    Also, how does the device manage message rules? Currently when an email comes in, if it's from someone I anticipate getting more messages from in the future it's pretty easy to create a message rule in Outlook and have it automatically sorted on arrival. Does the EAS spec require devices to be able to manage the creation of mail rules?


    Not if you already deleted it on the handheld.

    The 30-day limit is currently a limitation on the Blackberry email clients, they are reputedly planning to expand the upper-limit at some point. In the meantime, there is a "remote search" feature for EAS mailboxes that should allow you to search for almost anything in the mail store, as long as the server admin has not set a policy to block or limit remote search.
    So say you set up a 10 year sync timeframe, you know, because the whole advantage is you have access to all your messages on your phone. Now you have all the old emails you want on your phone, but also 10 years of emails you don't.
    03-13-13 09:57 PM
  17. ssbtech's Avatar
    Not password-protected? Is this actually from the guy who keeps screaming bloody-murder about how allegedly a syncing email setup is a terrible failing from a security and confidentiality POV?
    I don't password protect my device, primarily because the lock screen implementation on the BlackBerry is prety pathetic - there's no on-screen numeric keypad for quick entry of passwords, and there's no way to prevent the device from self locking. I don't want to enter the password every time I pick it up when it's at home, either. BlackBerry protect is enabled, backs up whatever is on the phone (another useless BIS feature) and allows remote locking and wiping if need be.
    03-13-13 10:00 PM
  18. Omnitech's Avatar
    POP3 doesn't have device compatibility issues like this.

    I have 45+ folders set up in Outlook. If I was to replicate this in Webmail, are you saying that I'd have to manually subscribe to each folder?

    POP 3 doesn't have a LOT of things. Just because you pick/choose things and then present them as trumped-up "showstoppers" doesn't mean a heck of a lot. You just don't want to change anything ever, that much is clear.

    The choice to subscribe and/or sync folders is the user's choice. Most people don't touch most of their folders most of the time. If you do, feel free to subscribe to them. If the Playbook or BB10 email client doesn't offer such an option, it isn't an email sync technology limitation, it's a limitation of that particular client implementation.



    Also, how does the device manage message rules? Currently when an email comes in, if it's from someone I anticipate getting more messages from in the future it's pretty easy to create a message rule in Outlook and have it automatically sorted on arrival. Does the EAS spec require devices to be able to manage the creation of mail rules?

    Microsoft email clients and sync protocols have long provided support for both client-side and server-side rules. There are lots of distinctions in how a particular vendor implements the protocol however. Microsoft doesn't dictate the client implementation, they just license the protocol itself and licensees are free to implement it how they see fit. Blackberry 10 is not yet in the following list but I hope it will be soon, if not I may add it myself since there appears to be a relevant Blackberry document on it now:
    Comparison of Exchange ActiveSync clients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    I don't password protect my device, primarily because the lock screen implementation on the BlackBerry is prety pathetic - there's no on-screen numeric keypad for quick entry of passwords
    You have a Blackberry. Where did the physical keyboard go? Are you using a Storm?


    I don't want to enter the password every time I pick it up when it's at home, either.

    Security is not possible without some sort of sacrifice to convenience. Specifically, not locking the device leaves it open to snooping. If you don't like entering a password after a reasonable timeout, there are other methods out there, but don't fool yourself that your device is secure if anyone that walks by can snoop around on it just like you would because the UI is fully open for them to do so.

    And don't expect to be taken seriously if you change from a "security is everything" stance one minute because it dovetails with what you allege as the strengths of doing your POP3 thing, and then turn around and try to use convenience the next minute to try to argue the other side of the fence.
    NoAhB0Dy likes this.
    03-14-13 01:35 AM
  19. DivideBYZero's Avatar
    I don't password protect my device, primarily because the lock screen implementation on the BlackBerry is prety pathetic - there's no on-screen numeric keypad for quick entry of passwords, and there's no way to prevent the device from self locking. I don't want to enter the password every time I pick it up when it's at home, either. BlackBerry protect is enabled, backs up whatever is on the phone (another useless BIS feature) and allows remote locking and wiping if need be.
    Wow... use an alpha password rather than just numeric. you're really reaching. Protect is also on BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    03-14-13 01:46 AM
  20. ssbtech's Avatar
    Nope, I have a Torch 9800, but I'd rather choose when it will need a password, not have it decided for me. Choice, what a novel concept, eh?

    So EAS offers a wide variety of features, but the implementation of those features is up to the various service providers, handset manufacturers and software vendors.

    How nice it would be if it the standards were implemented similarly across devices and software. The more I look into this, the more it looks like a dog's breakfast with all sorts of inconsistencies.

    I haven't bothered to look, but if you have multiple EAS accounts set up in Outlook how does it handle mail sorting? I know you can set rules up so messages are sorted into folders within that account, but suppose you get messages from the same sender via two or more accounts? Can emails from johndoe@ISP.com received via two or more accounts be sorted into a single "Messages from John Doe" folder? And how would the BB10 device handle this?
    03-14-13 01:53 AM
  21. ssbtech's Avatar
    Wow... use an alpha password rather than just numeric. you're really reaching. Protect is also on BB10.
    Have you tried using the 9800's keyboard one-handed? BB's lock screen implementation is a mess.

    And I know Protect is also on BB10, but it's a crippled version that doesn't do back-ups thanks to the loss of BIS.
    03-14-13 01:55 AM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    How nice it would be if it the standards were implemented similarly across devices and software. The more I look into this, the more it looks like a dog's breakfast with all sorts of inconsistencies.

    Red herring #772,913

    You realize that bandaids like "leave on server" and "download partial" that vendors started using to try to workaround all the limitations of POP3 were NEVER part of that standard, right? And guaranteed to work inconsistently (if at all) between implementations, right?

    The stuff we're talking about here are all documented, vendors are not just "making it up" like that "leave on server" etc stuff on POP3 did. And since EAS is about 100 times more sophisticated than POP3, there are orders of magnitude more elements to consider than the simple stuff that 25-year-old protocol does.
    03-14-13 04:24 AM
  23. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    So if I delete an email from my outlook.com account on my Z10, I'll delete it on the server?
    The reason I ask is that it's the first time I've set up outlook.com on a mobile device that isn't my laptop.

    Posted via CB10
    03-14-13 10:31 AM
  24. ssbtech's Avatar
    Red herring #772,913
    Do you have a list of red herrings somewhere or are you resorting to sarcasm to try to prove a point?


    You realize that bandaids like "leave on server" and "download partial" that vendors started using to try to workaround all the limitations of POP3 were NEVER part of that standard, right? And guaranteed to work inconsistently (if at all) between implementations, right?
    How odd - that feature has been working flawlessly for me for the past 11 years.


    The stuff we're talking about here are all documented, vendors are not just "making it up" like that "leave on server" etc stuff on POP3 did. And since EAS is about 100 times more sophisticated than POP3, there are orders of magnitude more elements to consider than the simple stuff that 25-year-old protocol does.
    I don't care how sophisticated EAS is, if all the features aren't implemented across all devices all the time, then it provides an inconsistent user experience.


    Any ideas on the multiple folder issue I brought up above?
    03-14-13 12:12 PM
  25. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    So if I delete an email from my outlook.com account on my Z10, I'll delete it on the server?
    The reason I ask is that it's the first time I've set up outlook.com on a mobile device that isn't my laptop.

    Posted via CB10
    Depending on how you have configured your outlook.com account, it will either delete or put deleted messages in the "Deleted" folder in the webmail account. (this is what happens to the stuff I delete for my outlook.com account)
    03-14-13 12:22 PM
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