08-23-14 11:27 AM
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  1. torpesco's Avatar
    I think you're right. I can see why someone would want the feature but I don't know how it would work on a synced system. Perhaps some dev will write an email app that works this way.
    Glad we leave this not as enemies.

    Really, this thread describes how I feel about the phone the best: Severly Addicted

    (Tardy response -- wanted to look up that link.)
    03-11-13 03:17 PM
  2. sindai's Avatar
    OMG! i just briefly breezed through this thread cuz i'm at work..but yes...i like the bb 9900 where you have a choice to delete from both device and server. I like to leave my mesages on my server and delete on my phone.

    I just realized today...that even facebook messages are synced too when deleted! aargh! i just lost a few important messages!! damn!!

    I really don't want to have so many messages kept on my phone.
    03-11-13 04:01 PM
  3. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I might get stoned, if I do, please use little rocks.

    I think sync all is way more efficient, but I also by into the empty mailbox theory.
    tjseaman likes this.
    03-11-13 04:18 PM
  4. sindai's Avatar
    okay....here's a question.....what if....a new version of BB comes along...and people want to trade in their BBz10 for the new one. Wouldn't you want to wipe out everything? I usually do before i trade in my old phone. Now, if you do that....wouldn't all your emails and fb messages and whatever be deleted from the server as well?! Just a thought.

    Everyone has their preference whether they want to sync or not. Please don't be slamming each other about it. It's childish.

    I prefer have the choice to delete messages just on my phone so i don't have so much clutter on my phone.

    i'm a little upset with the FB messages too. Just lost a bunch of messages i wanted to keep. aargh. I just deleted it from the hub and won't use the notifier anymore.
    fisherda89 likes this.
    03-11-13 04:41 PM
  5. Omnitech's Avatar
    okay....here's a question.....what if....a new version of BB comes along...and people want to trade in their BBz10 for the new one. Wouldn't you want to wipe out everything? I usually do before i trade in my old phone. Now, if you do that....wouldn't all your emails and fb messages and whatever be deleted from the server as well?! Just a thought.
    No, they would not be deleted on the server. If you have the email client set to delete on server when deleting locally, a "delete" operation within the email client actually sends a command to "delete" on the server. Removing/wiping the data on the phone simply removes the data from the storage/memory of the phone. It does not send any "delete commands" to the email server.
    03-11-13 05:58 PM
  6. ChainPunch's Avatar
    I thought the Delete on Mailbox & Handheld or just delete on Handheld was because of BIS. Since BB10 has no BIS, as a go between, then you loose that option for B10.
    03-11-13 06:38 PM
  7. Spawn12's Avatar
    I thought the Delete on Mailbox & Handheld or just delete on Handheld was because of BIS. Since BB10 has no BIS, as a go between, then you loose that option for B10.
    Has nothing to do with bis as when I had my 9900...I changed my data plan from bis to a normal one and I still had that option of whether to delete from handheld or delete from server.


    Posted via CB10
    03-11-13 06:43 PM
  8. kill_9's Avatar
    Being able to delete an email from the handheld only or from both handheld and server was an exceptional feature. Email was synchronized but not the same destructive way that BlackBerry OS 10 behaves.

    Posted via CB10 on the BlackBerry Z10
    ssbtech likes this.
    03-11-13 07:42 PM
  9. ubizmo's Avatar

    So there are a bunch of tools that are trendy these days that are supposed to make email more efficient and less burdensome. I think Blackberry should take a cue from some of these tools and incorporate some of these concepts into BB10. Examples:

    Mailbox app review by TechCrunch
    This one had an interesting take on what I've been proposing: swipe right to delete; swipe left to "snooze" the mail.
    03-11-13 08:20 PM
  10. Omnitech's Avatar
    This one had an interesting take on what I've been proposing: swipe right to delete; swipe left to "snooze" the mail.
    Yep, there are a number of people working on this "email overload" problem. Blackberry could make a real name for itself if it included some auto-filtering/filing/list-management features into the native email client, IMHO.
    03-11-13 09:54 PM
  11. ubizmo's Avatar
    Being able to delete an email from the handheld only or from both handheld and server was an exceptional feature. Email was synchronized but not the same destructive way that BlackBerry OS 10 behaves.
    If the contents of the inbox are different on handheld and server, they're not synced; that much is certain. Sync means any addition or deletion in one is mirrored in the other.

    What I'm suggesting as an alternative would preserve true sync between the two, allowing the user to leave email in the inbox but make it invisible on the handheld, until needed again. It would have no effect on the server, because it wouldn't actually change the contents of the inbox. This would preserve the "delete on handheld" experience from legacy BBOS, but would actually be better, since the invisible email could be made visible again if needed. In BBOS, once an email was deleted from the handheld, you couldn't get it back without resending it to yourself from the server.
    03-12-13 07:29 AM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    If the contents of the inbox are different on handheld and server, they're not synced; that much is certain. Sync means any addition or deletion in one is mirrored in the other.

    What I'm suggesting as an alternative would preserve true sync between the two, allowing the user to leave email in the inbox but make it invisible on the handheld, until needed again. It would have no effect on the server, because it wouldn't actually change the contents of the inbox. This would preserve the "delete on handheld" experience from legacy BBOS, but would actually be better, since the invisible email could be made visible again if needed. In BBOS, once an email was deleted from the handheld, you couldn't get it back without resending it to yourself from the server.
    This, in a nutshell is how Gmail Android works with the Gmail app.
    It is always synced. I can archive an email, which tucks it away out of sight, which could satisfy the "delete on handheld" requirement for some.

    Is this how BB10 does it currently?
    03-12-13 10:34 AM
  13. ubizmo's Avatar
    This, in a nutshell is how Gmail Android works with the Gmail app.
    It is always synced. I can archive an email, which tucks it away out of sight, which could satisfy the "delete on handheld" requirement for some.
    Not quite the same as what I'm proposing. In Gmail, the Inbox is the visible subset of "All Mail". When you archive an email, it's out of the Inbox on both the handheld and server, but still in "All Mail." So, archived email it becomes invisible on both, until you click on "All Mail" to find it. This works well enough, but it's not a general solution because it's specific to the way Gmail does things. Other email services don't work this way, so BB10 can't force them to.

    My suggestion would leave server email untouched, but individual device emails would become invisible on the device only, until revealed by a "show all" command. All email in the Inbox would remain visible on the server/web app.

    Is this how BB10 does it currently?[/QUOTE]

    Not sure, since I don't have a Z10 yet. From what I read here, there is basic folder sync but no support for Gmail archive. So the only way to get an email out of the Inbox is to delete it or move it to another folder.
    03-12-13 10:54 AM
  14. semperfi45's Avatar
    I didn't have this problem with my 9810 Torch. This is a bit of a pain, in my opinion.
    03-12-13 11:06 AM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    Once again there is this question of getting an inaccurate picture of what remains on the email server in a syncing scenario, ie not being clear at all times whether a message that is not visible on the mobile device is either deleted or simply 'hidden'. This becomes more complicated when working with multiple folders.

    Neither does it solve the widespread problem of "inbox overload", since when you eventually work with the actual email store, you will still have a bunch of messages in the inbox to deal with, and I would guess, that inbox would typically end up expanding to epic proportions.

    Something has to be done, IMHO, to actually ACT on inbox messages, rather than just endlessly hide them. Otherwise you are just continuously deferring that increasingly overwhelming task until some unknown future date. (In fact, this is more or less what Gmail does: give up entirely on the idea of folders, not delete anything, and rely completely on search to find things you want in the future)

    I think that rather than hiding things, they should be flagged with a specific status, which takes the same amount of time as hiding. Example status flags:

    • Delete
    • Reply later (possibly with reminder timer)
    • Reply from work
    • Reply from desktop
    • Archive
    • Unsubscribe
    • Mute thread
    • File


    Also I think it would be helpful to have ways to automatically file messages that have been acted-upon. Rather than having to reply to a message and then figure out where to file it, have a rule that does that automatically.
    03-12-13 12:49 PM
  16. Omnitech's Avatar
    Another idea: I get a lot of vendor/reseller/organizational messages that I may or may not want to read, may or may not want to file for later.

    A one-step way of dealing with them would be great. Example:

    • First time the client sees a message from a particular sender being moved to a particular folder, popup asking "Make that folder default to file future emails from this sender?"
    • Next time I get a message from the same sender I have an additional button "File". So I can choose "Delete", "Read", "Read Later" (Or "Snooze"), "Reply", or "File".
    • If I select either "File" or "Read Later", the message is moved into its default folder set previously.
    • If I reply to the message, it is automatically filed in its default folder after my reply is sent
    • If I select "Read Later", the message is specially flagged in its default folder, and some sort of reminder mechanism is activated.
    03-12-13 01:00 PM
  17. tk-093's Avatar
    I just admin our BES and I've never used a BB too much to be considered a power user, or even a medium level user (looking forward to playing with a Z10 when in launches for VZW though.)

    We've lost about 80% of our BB users over the last few years but of the ones left, most are executives and other high level folks. I think that is pretty common in a lot of companies which is good because those same VIP type people are the reason companies are moving right to BB10.

    Anyway, a lot of thse people have other folks manage their email and I know they do all sorts of funky things when it comes to managing email and several use those Delete on Handheld settings. So I wonder that if losing those niche features like that will be the 'straw that broke the camels back' for those remaining power users and they will start to migrate to other platforms? Just throwing that out there...
    03-12-13 02:26 PM
  18. ubizmo's Avatar
    Once again there is this question of getting an inaccurate picture of what remains on the email server in a syncing scenario, ie not being clear at all times whether a message that is not visible on the mobile device is either deleted or simply 'hidden'. This becomes more complicated when working with multiple folders.
    I'm thinking the "hide" option would only exist in the Inbox. Once an email is filed into a folder, it should be visible on all devices.

    I think your "reply later" tag would be a comparable idea, but of course the tagged email would still be visible there. If the "reply later" option were to move the mail into a special device-only folder, while leaving it alone on the server, that might be an interesting alternative to "hide". That folder could have an updated number on its cover, indicating how many messages are in it. When those emails are deleted from the server, they'd disappear from that folder as well. How about that?

    Neither does it solve the widespread problem of "inbox overload", since when you eventually work with the actual email store, you will still have a bunch of messages in the inbox to deal with, and I would guess, that inbox would typically end up expanding to epic proportions.
    Ultimately, no email handling innovations will actually get the work done. The point is, we get emails that, for one reason or another, we don't want to answer or otherwise act on while using the phone. We know we'll act on them from a regular computer. So, we don't want to look at them anymore on the phone. If I have 25 emails in my Inbox, and 12 of them are things that I'll handle on the computer, not on the phone, I don't want to have to scroll past them to get to the ones that I will handle on the phone. Yes, filing them in a "later" folder of some sort is an option, but it needs to be as streamlined as possible.

    Also I think it would be helpful to have ways to automatically file messages that have been acted-upon. Rather than having to reply to a message and then figure out where to file it, have a rule that does that automatically.
    Yes, this sounds like a good idea, like the way BBOS would remember what account you used last, for each recipient. A slick touch. Does BB10 still do that?
    03-12-13 02:28 PM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    I think your "reply later" tag would be a comparable idea, but of course the tagged email would still be visible there. If the "reply later" option were to move the mail into a special device-only folder, while leaving it alone on the server, that might be an interesting alternative to "hide".
    I was suggesting, for any messages flagged "reply later", re-filing them into a special folder or hiding them somehow, then having some sort of reminder function so they don't get forgotten about.


    That folder could have an updated number on its cover, indicating how many messages are in it. When those emails are deleted from the server, they'd disappear from that folder as well. How about that?

    Good idea. Make that number show up in the hub as well.



    Ultimately, no email handling innovations will actually get the work done. The point is, we get emails that, for one reason or another, we don't want to answer or otherwise act on while using the phone. We know we'll act on them from a regular computer. So, we don't want to look at them anymore on the phone.
    I think there is a growing consensus that the real issue is deferring all the drudgery until later. I think everything needs to be done to try to immediately act upon messages in SOME way, even if it is to "snooze" them or set some sort of action reminder. But really, the best thing is to deal with them somehow. And I think much can be done to lower the "cost" of such actions on the client side so it is less and less likely that people are just avoiding the inevitable and creating an insurmountable administrative task for them further and further down the road.
    03-12-13 03:42 PM
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
    Example - many busy people are realizing that many emails sent to them are just wasting their time.

    Andrew Mason from Groupon apparently wanted someone to develop a script that would detect the size of the text in an incoming email, and if it was more than a few sentences, automatically bounce it back to the sender with a notice that:

    1. The message has not been read
    2. He needs to manage his time, so in respect of that, please edit the message down to less than {some figure} and re-send it, then he will read it


    I think that sounds like a rather interesting idea.
    03-12-13 03:46 PM
  21. ssbtech's Avatar
    Who deletes an email from their phone that they still want a copy of somewhere else. If it's worth keeping, it's worth keeping. If it ain't, it ain't. It's really not hard.
    I do, and I use it every single day.

    I'm a mod on a couple of internet forums and subscribe to many others. I also get updates and notifications from various other sources. I need the ability to glance at the content on my phone quickly, but because of the volume of messages that come in, I usually delete them from my phone to keep it clean. I like to keep my message list less than a screen's length long.

    Deleting from just my phone makes it simple to see what I need to see and have an idea of what I will be receiving when I get back to my PC. Once I download the messages to my PC I'm able to act on the content should I need to, or simply keep it as a reference when I don't.

    People loathe iDroid products for their poor handling of daily communications, including email. I frankly can't see why anyone would want hundreds of emails on their phone.

    I disagree that the whole point of a smartphone is to keep all end points "in sync". A smart phone should let the user handle communications in a way that works for him, not have their processes dictated by the phone.
    03-13-13 02:56 AM
  22. marcati's Avatar
    I thought the Delete on Mailbox & Handheld or just delete on Handheld was because of BIS. Since BB10 has no BIS, as a go between, then you loose that option for B10.
    On my BB9810 I was running BES and BIS accounts and always had the option with both. As others have said, it was a great way to keep my BB from being cluttered, but still able to leave emails on the servers for use later.
    03-13-13 03:00 AM
  23. ssbtech's Avatar
    But from a philosophical POV it's also potentially problematic: it leads people to a "distorted view of reality" - a synced mailbox should always reflect what is "really there". For example, if you forgot you hid a bunch of messages, you might do something you really regret because you forgot something is there that you couldn't see.
    You seem like a pretty intelligent person and you've done a good job at explaining the benefits of a "sync'd" inbox. But it's time for you to understand that not everyone wants a "sync'd" configuration.

    If you delete a song from an iPod that is sync'd with iTunes, does it automatically delete the song from your iTunes library and any other computer you've downloaded that song onto?
    torpesco and Top Tomato like this.
    03-13-13 03:16 AM
  24. Omnitech's Avatar
    You seem like a pretty intelligent person and you've done a good job at explaining the benefits of a "sync'd" inbox. But it's time for you to understand that not everyone wants a "sync'd" configuration.

    If you delete a song from an iPod that is sync'd with iTunes, does it automatically delete the song from your iTunes library and any other computer you've downloaded that song onto?

    As I keep telling you, it's mostly just a matter of learning what works as life and technology evolves and making the most of it, instead of constantly pining away for your old "Three on the tree" manual shift Dodge, or your old computer that you're convinced was better because it used floppy disks and you don't trust those "new fangled" hard drives.

    If you buy a new video camera and it has a button called "Delete", then I hope you're sure you want to delete your videos before you choose to press it, rather than spend the next 6 months griping about how horrible it is that the "Delete" button looks like your old camera's "macro" button, and you keep hitting it and deleting all your videos. (Despite the fact it looks like all other "Delete" buttons today)

    If you don't want synced email, stick with POP3. But know that before long, POP3 will be dead, and you are giving up all sorts of extremely handy features in order to stick with that 25-year-old technology.

    BB10's email client, from the sounds of it, is a little feature-sparse. (I can't say for certain because I can't get one here yet. Hopefully that will change later this month) So it could probably use a little additional functionality.

    But that still doesn't change the fact that the whole world is not going to freeze everything as of 10 years ago just so people that won't adapt can keep doing what they're doing for the next 20 years. Technology moves on.
    03-13-13 03:39 AM
  25. Spawn12's Avatar
    What about the option of report as spam, which I had on my 9900...I found it handy as sometimes I'd get a spam email come through even though I have filters set up in my gmail account but for some odd reason they still come through on my z10.

    That option doesn't seem to exist anymore, which now means that I have to log onto my gmail account from my pc and mark that email as spam.

    Posted via CB10
    03-13-13 06:54 AM
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