08-23-14 11:27 AM
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  1. bobauckland's Avatar
    I don't know what email server you use, but that is not how Outlook and Exchange work. If the served "breaks" and your admins have not deployed any HA/DR replicas or a backup system (in which case they must not be doing a good job), your admins can use a "dial tone" database to start over.
    In that scenario Outlook recognizes the mailbox is different and prompts you to work online with the empty mailbox, or offline to use a cached mailbox copy - but you can't use both at the same time for the very reason you point out. You would then export the offline mailbox to a PST and then import it toy the online mailbox to bring yourself right where you left off.

    if you are using a hosted email solution that isn't Exchange, then they still have an HA/DR strategy to protect your data. So again get away from POPing your email and creating a single point of failure that is also limited in functionality as I previously discussed.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually, some people like having an inbox on their phones, that they can keep clean and organised, and keep all their mails on the server, for access through their computer.
    Saves you having an inbox of over 9000 mails, as I do at the moment.

    For these people, POP on BlackBerry with true push was by far the best solution.
    Please stop trying to sell inferior solutions as superior, and telling people to change the way they operate to a longer, more laborious method, while asking them to accept that it is 'better' in some way. It isn't. Respect that some people have a different way of doing things, we like to be efficient in a different way.

    If ActiveSync was so superior, BlackBerry wouldn't have been pushing their own email retrieval system as so much superior to ActiveSync for so long, while the other OSes were offering it for ages.
    05-18-13 02:33 AM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    So again get away from POPing your email and creating a single point of failure that is also limited in functionality as I previously discussed.

    Heh. Welcome to the fray. These old BIS curmudgeons will be insisting on the superiority of their old 8xxx Blackberry technology in the year 3000. May the Force be With You.

    Now excuse me why I re-hash the old arguments below for the 5,000'th time with a guy I really should be ignoring, sigh.


    Actually, some people like having an inbox on their phones, that they can keep clean and organised, and keep all their mails on the server, for access through their computer.
    Saves you having an inbox of over 9000 mails, as I do at the moment.

    There is nothing that says that not using ancient POP email systems somehow automatically means people must have ridiculously cluttered inboxes. Quite the contrary actually, in my experience.

    For these people, POP on BlackBerry with true push was by far the best solution.

    Pity that polling a POP email server every few minutes never was "true push" the way an EAS or IMAP IDLE system actually is.


    Please stop trying to sell inferior solutions as superior....

    No one is "selling" anything - just stating the technical facts of the matter. Whether you prefer sticking with something that has a lot of other limitations is a matter of personal preference. You are welcome to your own private opinions and preferences, you are not welcome to your own private facts.


    If ActiveSync was so superior, BlackBerry wouldn't have been pushing their own email retrieval system as so much superior to ActiveSync for so long, while the other OSes were offering it for ages.

    For someone who spends so much time ranting that Blackberry doesn't know what they are doing and doesn't know what their users want, it's kind of laughable to proclaim that because Blackberry at one time or another chose to offer a particular email system, then automatically that must have meant that that system was "superior to all other email technology". Why are you essentially making the opposite claims today? 5 years from now, will you be proclaiming that because in 2013 Blackberry was "pushing" ActiveSync, that that made it "superior" to BIS or POP3? Make up your mind.

    Exchange ActiveSync has been around for over 10 years now. It does much more than it used to do, and it has become the de-facto email syncing standard, and for mostly solid reasons. The fact that Blackberries didn't have native support for it until this year has been handicapping their product's competitiveness in the marketplace for several years now.

    Could Blackberry improve BB10's email implementation? Yep. It's missing some things. That doesn't mean that POP is fundamentally superior technology. It mostly just means that BB10's email implementation is incomplete so far. It's already evolving a few months after it hit the street. I suspect it will continue to evolve.
    05-18-13 05:45 AM
  3. bobauckland's Avatar
    Heh. Welcome to the fray. These old BIS curmudgeons will be insisting on the superiority of their old 8xxx Blackberry technology in the year 3000. May the Force be With You.

    Now excuse me why I re-hash the old arguments below for the 5,000'th time with a guy I really should be ignoring, sigh.





    There is nothing that says that not using ancient POP email systems somehow automatically means people must have ridiculously cluttered inboxes. Quite the contrary actually, in my experience.




    Pity that polling a POP email server every few minutes never was "true push" the way an EAS or IMAP IDLE system actually is.





    No one is "selling" anything - just stating the technical facts of the matter. Whether you prefer sticking with something that has a lot of other limitations is a matter of personal preference. You are welcome to your own private opinions and preferences, you are not welcome to your own private facts.





    For someone who spends so much time ranting that Blackberry doesn't know what they are doing and doesn't know what their users want, it's kind of laughable to proclaim that because Blackberry at one time or another chose to offer a particular email system, then automatically that must have meant that that system was "superior to all other email technology". Why are you essentially making the opposite claims today? 5 years from now, will you be proclaiming that because in 2013 Blackberry was "pushing" ActiveSync, that that made it "superior" to BIS or POP3? Make up your mind.

    Exchange ActiveSync has been around for over 10 years now. It does much more than it used to do, and it has become the de-facto email syncing standard, and for mostly solid reasons. The fact that Blackberries didn't have native support for it until this year has been handicapping their product's competitiveness in the marketplace for several years now.

    Could Blackberry improve BB10's email implementation? Yep. It's missing some things. That doesn't mean that POP is fundamentally superior technology. It mostly just means that BB10's email implementation is incomplete so far. It's already evolving a few months after it hit the street. I suspect it will continue to evolve.

    Look, you like EAS, and that's fine. I've got no problem with that.
    I liked the old way. And the old way offers options the new way doesn't. Typically progress means expanding on and building new features.
    As other posters, with more patience than I, have tried to explain to you, your idea of a superior solution means more steps and more clutter and more hassle for a lot of people.

    I have no problem accepting that you prefer EAS. I really don't know why you can't be tolerant enough to accept that some people like the added advantages of BlackBerry's now legacy email system. I really can't understand what sort of mental block someone would need to put up to be this obtuse.

    It offered other options which the new system doesn't and which many of us preferred.

    Just sit down, read the above line again and again, and hopefully it will start to make sense to you.

    And by the way, POP polling on legacy systems was not every few minutes, in fact you'd have it far more instantaneous in many situations that ActiveSync on BB10.
    I'm not going to argue with you, or have you rehash some obscure document again to try and prove a point, I used the system, day in and day out, in a time critical manner. Plenty of other posters here have done the same.
    POP pushing on legacy was less than a minute, easily.

    That was true push. And it was pushed, by BlackBerry, as a superior solution than EAS, when the competitors were using EAS.

    Now if you want to ignore me, please do, it might make things simpler honestly, or I may have to resort to just copy pasting replies to you because you just don't seem to be listening!
    05-18-13 07:13 AM
  4. HotFix's Avatar
    Actually, some people like having an inbox on their phones, that they can keep clean and organised, and keep all their mails on the server, for access through their computer.
    Saves you having an inbox of over 9000 mails, as I do at the moment.

    For these people, POP on BlackBerry with true push was by far the best solution.
    Please stop trying to sell inferior solutions as superior, and telling people to change the way they operate to a longer, more laborious method, while asking them to accept that it is 'better' in some way. It isn't. Respect that some people have a different way of doing things, we like to be efficient in a different way.

    If ActiveSync was so superior, BlackBerry wouldn't have been pushing their own email retrieval system as so much superior to ActiveSync for so long, while the other OSes were offering it for ages.
    I get some people liked having a disjointed "inbox" on their BlackBerry devices, separate from their primary mailbox. This had absolutely nothing to do with POP because I have this functionality with my Bold and my old BES right now, while simultaneously having my Z10 hooked up to the same mailbox with different functionality.

    You seem really angry or frustrated, which I guess I can understand, but please don't direct it at those who are trying to help and explain alternatives since what is desired isn't available. I didn't take away your "superior" way of doing things, I'm just trying to help make the best of a perceived bad situation.

    Again POP is a bad idea independent of the whole "delete on handheld" functionality. My recommendations were based on this and the post to which I was responding where someone was lamenting the lack of sync functionality which they could regain if they switched protocols.

    So to you specifically bobuckland since I wasn't responding to you or your issues in the post you responded to as if I was, please read the context to which a person was responding before assuming their intentions incorrectly.


    Posted via CB10
    05-18-13 07:53 AM
  5. bobauckland's Avatar
    I get some people liked having a disjointed "inbox" on their BlackBerry devices, separate from their primary mailbox. This had absolutely nothing to do with POP because I have this functionality with my Bold and my old BES right now, while simultaneously having my Z10 hooked up to the same mailbox with different functionality.

    You seem really angry or frustrated, which I guess I can understand, but please don't direct it at those who are trying to help and explain alternatives since what is desired isn't available. I didn't take away your "superior" way of doing things, I'm just trying to help make the best of a perceived bad situation.

    Again POP is a bad idea independent of the whole "delete on handheld" functionality. My recommendations were based on this and the post to which I was responding where someone was lamenting the lack of sync functionality which they could regain if they switched protocols.

    So to you specifically bobuckland since I wasn't responding to you or your issues in the post you responded to as if I was, please read the context to which a person was responding before assuming their intentions incorrectly.


    Posted via CB10
    Regardless of your intentions, I still don't see why you proclaim POP to be a bad idea, or inferior solution.
    Was it reliable on legacy BBOS? Yes
    Did it offer more options than on BB10 with ActiveSync? Yes
    Did it, in conjunction with BIS polling, allow for push email on legacy? Yes

    And I don't get your initial point either. The disjointed inbox had nothing to do with POP?
    I tell you what, please give me a method on a BB10 device, using any protocol available, or paid email hosting, by which I can have this disjointed inbox that I desire. Seriously, I'd be ready to pay for it, and if you know how it can be done I would be grateful.
    05-18-13 08:12 AM
  6. HotFix's Avatar
    Regardless of your intentions, I still don't see why you proclaim POP to be a bad idea, or inferior solution.
    Was it reliable on legacy BBOS? Yes
    Did it offer more options than on BB10 with ActiveSync? Yes
    Did it, in conjunction with BIS polling, allow for push email on legacy? Yes
    My intentions are regardless only because you don't like what you are hearing. Sorry I can't give you the answer you want, and that it makes you upset.

    I have already stated in detail why POP is a bad idea to posts you have responded to, but lets try it again. POP downloads the email onto a single device/computer, and once the email is on that device/computer if something happens to it the email is gone forever.
    I run an enterprise email system and am constantly asking my customers to not use this protocol when I find them using it, because if they lose the email after taking it off my system it's gone forever and there is nothing I can do it about it. I have redundant HA and DR replicas and also backups just in case, and I would rather they have a copy of the message on their device/computer that is synchronized (IMAP/ActiveSync/whatever isn't POP) with the server.

    POP itself did not offer more options than ActiveSync. You are again confusing the device's delete on handheld functionality with a an email protocol, when they are mutually exclusive... To be clear all POP is an email download protocol, and the functionality you reference you liked was a feature of BIS.

    And I don't get your initial point either. The disjointed inbox had nothing to do with POP?
    I tell you what, please give me a method on a BB10 device, using any protocol available, or paid email hosting, by which I can have this disjointed inbox that I desire. Seriously, I'd be ready to pay for it, and if you know how it can be done I would be grateful.
    Again... POP is just an email download protocol, whereas the Delete on Handheld functionality which you are referencing as the functionality you liked had NOTHING to do with POP being the email protocol. I can go use the "delete on handheld" functionality right now on a mailbox hooked up to my BES using MAPI on the backend - and POP never comes into play.

    As I have already stated, I didn't take away your "superior" way of doing things, I'm just trying to help make the best of a perceived bad situation by offering alternatives to others. At no time did I indicate any of my comments or suggestions were a better way of doing things, or that I had a way to get you back the delete on handheld functionality. In fact I wasn't responding to you or your complaints at all when you decided to get on my case for trying to help. I was responding to ssbtech's comment on a desire for synchronization which ActiveSync provides, and their misperception about how keeping email synched with the server could be bad (re: synching an empty mailbox).

    Sorry you are this frustrated and angry that you are lashing out at those trying to help where they can. I am not responsible for taking away your functionality, nor have I indicated to anyone that they were wrong for preferring to have a disjointed inbox. And please don't confuse me with others you are having discussions with in this forum, I am not them and they are not me.
    torpesco likes this.
    05-18-13 08:39 AM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    I really don't know why you can't be tolerant enough to accept that some people like the added advantages of BlackBerry's now legacy email system.

    Has nothing to do with "tolerance". Has everything to do with mischaracterizing what the various platforms can or cannot do.


    And by the way, POP polling on legacy systems was not every few minutes, in fact you'd have it far more instantaneous in many situations that ActiveSync on BB10.
    I'm not going to argue with you, or have you rehash some obscure document again to try and prove a point, I used the system, day in and day out, in a time critical manner.

    Apparently not in a critical enough manner to realize that you don't know what you are talking about in regards to how BIS works with POP email servers. Allow me to excerpt from one of those "obscure documents" called Blackberry Knowledgebase articles - you know, from the people who built BIS and stuff:

    Blackberry Knowledgebase article KB12373
    (2011-12-15)
    AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo! Mail allow for real-time delivery of email messages to BlackBerry Internet Service subscribers. This real-time delivery includes any other email accounts that are hosted by the respective organizations.

    Email accounts that are not hosted by these organizations are polled for new messages every 15 minutes.

    Now that article is not entirely correct, it's giving a conservative answer. 15 minutes is the average retrieval time if incoming traffic is light. If there is high activity, that behaviour is modified as described below in a later update:

    Blackberry Knowledgebase article KB13374
    (2012-10-30)
    The BlackBerry smartphone might receive email messages up to 15 minutes after the messages arrive on the source mailbox. This is by design. The BlackBerry Infrastructure checks for new email messages every 15 minutes. If a new email message is received, it is sent to the BlackBerry and the BlackBerry Infrastructure will check for new email again in 3 minutes. If no email is found, the BlackBerry Infrastructure will wait 15 minutes to check again.

    Note: This delay does not affect all mail protocols. AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo! Mail and MSN, Hotmail, Windows live mail allows real-time delivery of email messages to BlackBerry Internet Services. For more information see: KB12373.

    So as you can see, the minimum polling time for POP messages using BIS is 3 minutes, but in MOST cases it is more like 15 minutes.


    POP pushing on legacy was less than a minute, easily.

    Like I said, having private opinions and preferences is fine, having private facts and presenting them as actual facts is not.
    05-18-13 08:46 AM
  8. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    I'm surprised no one has gone off the deep end yet about the fact that 10.1 has been released for the device *and* bes and there's not one mention of "the old way" - only the fact that for enterprise you get eas. It's a feature!

    Sure seems to me eas is here to stay.

    Posted via CB10 on my Zed10.
    05-18-13 08:55 AM
  9. HotFix's Avatar
    I'm surprised no one has gone off the deep end yet about the fact that 10.1 has been released for the device *and* bes and there's not one mention of "the old way" - only the fact that for enterprise you get eas. It's a feature!

    Sure seems to me eas is here to stay.

    Posted via CB10 on my Zed10.
    I have approached my BB reps and let them know they HAVE to let people know the "Delete Prior" functionality has changed because there is no indication to the user that it has and it removes email from the server now. They agreed this is potentially a big deal for long time BB users (BIS or BES), but I haven't seen them take any steps to get the word out and/or provide caution to the user when they try to execute this function for the first time.

    I am waiting for the mailbox restore requests to start rolling in once we roll out BB 10 and BES 10.1 in production.
    05-18-13 09:02 AM
  10. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    I have approached my BB reps and let them know they HAVE to let people know the "Delete Prior" functionality has changed because there is no indication to the user that it has and it removes email from the server now. They agreed this is potentially a big deal for long time BB users (BIS or BES), but I haven't seen them take any steps to get the word out and/or provide caution to the user when they try to execute this function for the first time.

    I am waiting for the mailbox restore requests to start rolling in once we roll out BB 10 and BES 10.1 in production.
    In my experience, all my corporate users that switched to EAS never once complained about this loss of functionality. Granted they were going from BB to iPhone so they expected change, but I have a lot of chronic complainers and surprisingly not one of them seemed to care. Maybe they actually got it
    05-18-13 09:24 AM
  11. HotFix's Avatar
    In my experience, all my corporate users that switched to EAS never once complained about this loss of functionality. Granted they were going from BB to iPhone so they expected change, but I have a lot of chronic complainers and surprisingly not one of them seemed to care. Maybe they actually got it
    That has been my experience too, but then we started rolling out OS 10 devices to BB users who see the command "delete prior" (after figuring out how to find it) and get confused as to why it doesn't work the same as before. To my knowledge this is the difference between the other EAS implementations and BB 10s, in that things like "delete prior" behave differently on BB and don't exist on those other platforms.
    05-18-13 11:49 AM
  12. ssbtech's Avatar
    EAS makes sense for businesses and corporations that need tighter control of the email, contacts and calendar systems. If you're an investment advisor for BankOfMoney, then you only have one email address and it makes sense to have a sync'd email, calendar and contacts system. It also makes sense from an administrator's point of view - your computer on your desk breaks and all they do is swap it out. There's no recovering of PST files, etc... you can even pick up where you left off with your handheld while the IT geek is replacing your PC.

    BUT - home users don't need this server-based PIM system, and many don't want it. They're not using email for work and don't need to have the last 10 years of email stored on a server and accessible from their phone. They want it all on their PC. I've dealt with many people who don't like using webmail - pages are slow to load, webmail is reliant on a functioning internet connection, etc...

    The fact that I, a home user, can't have my PC download, sort and store my emails for me while leaving a copy of the ones I want on my phone is ridiculous.
    05-18-13 12:20 PM
  13. johnnyuk's Avatar
    This might have already been mentioned on this thread but there is an easy way that BlackBerry could implement "Delete on Handheld" with email accounts that sync with a server mailbox.

    Delete on Handheld could simply hide the email from the user's view in the message list. It would still be there in the message database on the phone so that the sync wouldn't delete in from the server, it would just never get displayed to the user or counted in any totals displayed to the user of emails on the phone after it was "Deleted on Handheld".

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-13 12:24 PM
  14. torpesco's Avatar
    BUT - home users don't need this server-based PIM system, and many don't want it. They're not using email for work and don't need to have the last 10 years of email stored on a server and accessible from their phone. They want it all on their PC. I've dealt with many people who don't like using webmail - pages are slow to load, webmail is reliant on a functioning internet connection, etc...

    The fact that I, a home user, can't have my PC download, sort and store my emails for me while leaving a copy of the ones I want on my phone is ridiculous.
    I'm a different type of home user, I guess. I use BB or webmail, and IMAP works well for me.

    My wife prefers a desktop client. She's set up to use IMAP with Gmail and it's working well for her. Plus if she needs to look something up away from home in a pinch, she can.

    If I file an email in Gmail, I can still access it on my phone if that folder is being synced.

    The main issues I can think of would be if your email provider doesn't give much storage space or if you don't want the email on a hosted system.

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-13 01:36 PM
  15. ssbtech's Avatar
    I use 5 email accounts from my ISP. They provide EAS and 1GB of webmail storage.

    I still don't want my data stored on someone else's computer. I also have a different way of storing messages in Outlook. Example: I have a folder titled "People" and subfolders named for the people I regularly get emails from. I have rules set up so that messages from Bob are moved to the Bob folder, messages from Jane are moved to the Jane folder, and so on.

    Here's the problem. Bob emails me at "myfirstaccount@ISP.com" and Jane emails me at "mysecondaccount@ISP.com"

    When Outlook downloads the emails, it sorts them automatically into the folders I want them moved to.

    Because I'm dealing with two different email accounts, there is no possible way for this to work on my phone. EAS folders belong to an email account, whereas Outlook folders don't - Outlook can sort messages into any folder I want.

    So when our dear member Omnitech says "just file messages on your phone" - that doesn't work for me. There's no way that I can file messages received at "myfirstaccount@ISP.com" into a folder also accessible from my other accounts.
    05-18-13 02:04 PM
  16. bobauckland's Avatar
    My intentions are regardless only because you don't like what you are hearing. Sorry I can't give you the answer you want, and that it makes you upset.

    I have already stated in detail why POP is a bad idea to posts you have responded to, but lets try it again. POP downloads the email onto a single device/computer, and once the email is on that device/computer if something happens to it the email is gone forever.
    I run an enterprise email system and am constantly asking my customers to not use this protocol when I find them using it, because if they lose the email after taking it off my system it's gone forever and there is nothing I can do it about it. I have redundant HA and DR replicas and also backups just in case, and I would rather they have a copy of the message on their device/computer that is synchronized (IMAP/ActiveSync/whatever isn't POP) with the server.

    POP itself did not offer more options than ActiveSync. You are again confusing the device's delete on handheld functionality with a an email protocol, when they are mutually exclusive... To be clear all POP is an email download protocol, and the functionality you reference you liked was a feature of BIS.


    Again... POP is just an email download protocol, whereas the Delete on Handheld functionality which you are referencing as the functionality you liked had NOTHING to do with POP being the email protocol. I can go use the "delete on handheld" functionality right now on a mailbox hooked up to my BES using MAPI on the backend - and POP never comes into play.

    As I have already stated, I didn't take away your "superior" way of doing things, I'm just trying to help make the best of a perceived bad situation by offering alternatives to others. At no time did I indicate any of my comments or suggestions were a better way of doing things, or that I had a way to get you back the delete on handheld functionality. In fact I wasn't responding to you or your complaints at all when you decided to get on my case for trying to help. I was responding to ssbtech's comment on a desire for synchronization which ActiveSync provides, and their misperception about how keeping email synched with the server could be bad (re: synching an empty mailbox).

    Sorry you are this frustrated and angry that you are lashing out at those trying to help where they can. I am not responsible for taking away your functionality, nor have I indicated to anyone that they were wrong for preferring to have a disjointed inbox. And please don't confuse me with others you are having discussions with in this forum, I am not them and they are not me.
    I'm upset because I can't do things the way I want to with the new system. In my opinion technology should work with you and not dictate to you how you use it, that's why I use almost no Apple products.
    While I appreciate you trying to help some members this thread was running from long before you came into it, and I still don't quite agree with your statements on POP. However I do take on board your point that it's not just POP we are discussing, it's POP in conjunction with BIS, which together provided me with the previous service I was used to. Nonetheless, I miss it, and find the combination of the two provided me with some features that are not possible in the new system, and I'm very disappointed the email experience is moving to similar to everything else.
    It's removed a big differentiator for me, and for many, judging from the forums.

    Has nothing to do with "tolerance". Has everything to do with mischaracterizing what the various platforms can or cannot do.





    Apparently not in a critical enough manner to realize that you don't know what you are talking about in regards to how BIS works with POP email servers. Allow me to excerpt from one of those "obscure documents" called Blackberry Knowledgebase articles - you know, from the people who built BIS and stuff:

    Blackberry Knowledgebase article KB12373
    (2011-12-15)



    Now that article is not entirely correct, it's giving a conservative answer. 15 minutes is the average retrieval time if incoming traffic is light. If there is high activity, that behaviour is modified as described below in a later update:

    Blackberry Knowledgebase article KB13374
    (2012-10-30)



    So as you can see, the minimum polling time for POP messages using BIS is 3 minutes, but in MOST cases it is more like 15 minutes.





    Like I said, having private opinions and preferences is fine, having private facts and presenting them as actual facts is not.
    I knew you'd come up with this because you've done it before. And I don't blame you at all, if it's there in a knowledgebase article, it's hard to argue with.

    All I'll say is, I've used legacy devices for ages, BelfastDispatcher has used legacy devices for ages, and we've both needed emails within seconds.
    My legacy had me pick up extra shifts whenever I wanted because I ALWAYS got emails before anyone else did. Within seconds. Immediate. True push.
    Bottom line, and perhaps you don't know this simply because you never used a legacy device with BIS and Gmail or similar via POP, and regardless of what your oft quoted article says, the email sync was less than a minute, every single time. That's just how it was.
    You can throw all the articles and whatever you want up in the air and dance around in a circle saying whatever you want, anyone who has used a legacy device can tell you their email didn't sync in 15 minute intervals, go on, ask someone who's actually used the service rather than someone who's just read about it.
    05-18-13 02:18 PM
  17. ssbtech's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure that my BBOS6 device got emails every 15 minutes.

    BIS to the phone is true push, however BIS only polls the email server every 15 minutes, then if it finds an email it drops down to 3 minute polling intervals. I never felt that emails came through instantly with BIS. But I didn't care. Instant vs. 15 minutes isn't critical for me.
    05-18-13 02:32 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    RIM must've had 80 million brainwashed thinking BIS email was better since everybody keeps telling me it's not now, imagine that. I could've had "better" imap and eas (if I paid for it) email "experience" all along.

    Here's the thing, imap hasn't changed since I was using it on a Nokia E61 before I bought my Curve 8320 in 2008, it's still the same, there was a good reason many choose BIS. The Nokia E61 did imap email far better than BB10 does now, I still prefer BIS no matter what.
    05-18-13 03:28 PM
  19. ssbtech's Avatar
    ...and look at all the posts and threads about problems with Gmail email, calendar, and contacts.

    These sync technologies are a mess.
    05-18-13 03:32 PM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    ...and look at all the posts and threads about problems with Gmail email, calendar, and contacts.

    These sync technologies are a mess.
    Sync is a waste in my opinion, my phone is always by my side, I don't need it to be a mirror of my laptop, what's important is happening on my phone, everything else on the laptop.

    Ironically BIS syncs imap faster, it might be one way from the phone to laptop only sync but as soon as I read or delete an email from my Legacy it's instantly synced to laptop. Deleted emails end up in the Deleted folder just in case I delete an important one by accident.
    05-18-13 03:43 PM
  21. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    ...and look at all the posts and threads about problems with Gmail email, calendar, and contacts.

    These sync technologies are a mess.
    On bb yes. On my DROID Gmail syncs just as I would expect. Have 5 calendars and they all sync. Contacts, yep, they sync fine. Notes, with a third party app I can view them on my device.

    I file my emails as I receive them and they are synced online,

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
    05-18-13 05:46 PM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    I knew you'd come up with this because you've done it before. And I don't blame you at all, if it's there in a knowledgebase article, it's hard to argue with.

    All I'll say is, I've used legacy devices for ages, BelfastDispatcher has used legacy devices for ages, and we've both needed emails within seconds.
    My legacy had me pick up extra shifts whenever I wanted because I ALWAYS got emails before anyone else did. Within seconds. Immediate. True push.
    Bottom line, and perhaps you don't know this simply because you never used a legacy device with BIS and Gmail or similar via POP, and regardless of what your oft quoted article says, the email sync was less than a minute, every single time. That's just how it was.
    You can throw all the articles and whatever you want up in the air and dance around in a circle saying whatever you want, anyone who has used a legacy device can tell you their email didn't sync in 15 minute intervals, go on, ask someone who's actually used the service rather than someone who's just read about it.

    Not only did I own and use a device using BIS for several years, I still have that device, it's sitting in my bag 2 feet away from me.

    In addition to that, I run the actual email server that BIS retrieves email from.

    That means I know PRECISELY how BIS polls POP servers, because I RUN the POP server, and I can monitor and log every single time the BIS network opens a connection to it.

    Thank you for yet another edition of your condescending assumptions.

    Even ssbtech disagrees with you about the email retrieval time. Stop making things up.


    This might have already been mentioned on this thread but there is an easy way that BlackBerry could implement "Delete on Handheld" with email accounts that sync with a server mailbox.

    Delete on Handheld could simply hide the email from the user's view in the message list. It would still be there in the message database on the phone so that the sync wouldn't delete in from the server, it would just never get displayed to the user or counted in any totals displayed to the user of emails on the phone after it was "Deleted on Handheld".

    I agree about that and I've had discussions with people here about that before.

    On the one hand, it could be a useful feature. On the other hand, it could be a confusing feature. Because whenever you have a "syncing" system, the baseline assumption is that all endpoints are in sync. If you start selectively hiding things on various endpoints, it could get confusing trying to keep track of what actually exists and what doesn't exist on the server. I would say at minimum if one was to do something like that, there should be some sort of hard to miss banner or prompt that makes it clear that there are "27 hidden messages", something along those lines.

    Blackberry Hub already has an option to hide sent or filed messages from the hub (the unified inbox), but not hide them in the explicit email account view. I would like to also see a "hide read" option there as well, which would help a lot to keep the visual clutter down, as long as there were an option to "mark unread" if desired.

    Another problem with the POP3 implementation in the hub right now is that it "expires" messages just like a syncing email client at 30 days. While that timeframe is supposedly going to increase (either in 10.1 or some subsequent OS release), that's a very unusual POP email implementation. I've never seen something like that and it's counter-intuitive.
    05-19-13 12:50 AM
  23. HotFix's Avatar
    The fact that I, a home user, can't have my PC download, sort and store my emails for me while leaving a copy of the ones I want on my phone is ridiculous.
    Actually you can if you are willing to consider using alternate technologies to obtain the same result. For example you could move your email to an online service like Outlook.com, hook up Outlook to it, and then store whatever you don't want left on the server in a PST file which you can automate (like you could with BIS filters) with an Outlook rule. That way you are only leaving on the server the ones you want on your phone, and you are taking off the phone and your server what you don't want on the phone. That would also keep the majority of your email off the server (which you claim you don't like even though that's a part of email delivery and I think that's how carrier implementations of BIS worked).

    You raised the issue of multiple email identities and how you can only do that locally. I have never used Outlook.com, but I was told recently that you can have it reach out and connect to multiple email systems to pull all of your email in one spot like you do with your local Outlook now. Combine that with the suggestion above and you have more or less recreated what you liked about BIS.
    How to Combine All Your Email Addresses into One Outlook.com Inbox

    And before you or someone else bites my head off, notice I am not telling you that you are wrong for liking BIS nor am I trying to sell you on ActiveSync. I am merely showing that there are other ways to try and recreate what you had before.
    southlander likes this.
    05-19-13 10:02 PM
  24. Omnitech's Avatar
    And before you or someone else bites my head off, notice I am not telling you that you are wrong for liking BIS nor am I trying to sell you on ActiveSync. I am merely showing that there are other ways to try and recreate what you had before.

    At least 4-6 weeks ago I mentioned the same option to ssbtech, using Outlook or server-side filters.

    That was when he brought out the new "problem" of multiple email accounts at different providers. Each time I suggest a way of accomplishing what he wants, he comes up with a new "problem".

    He will now tell you that he doesn't trust leaving his email on "someone else's email server". Which is fine, except the reasons he gives for it aren't actually very convincing when you consider what is actually safe and what is not, and that all of his email traverses someone else's infrastructure at some point or other anyway.. He is also using Outlook 2003 on an XP box, neither of which will have any more security patches issued for them in less than a year from now.

    I think the idea of using something like Outlook.com to aggregate messages centrally, using Outlook to retrieve messages as they come in but to "leave messages on server" mode by default (as he has already done), then using a rule to ie delete messages from the server after a certain period of time (ie to "expire" them from the handheld) could work very well. You could tweak that all sorts of ways, including pulling his spam messages (which he likes to save and look at) into a folder directly and never clutter the phone with them at all.
    05-19-13 11:16 PM
  25. J09GTSGraphite's Avatar
    Can someone tell me the difference between imap and active sync? As both of these are used in Windows 8 mail program.
    I used to use Windows Mail in Vista for my pop3 email. Now I am on W8 and the windows has its own email program and I had to figure out how to set that up, and active sync and imap were shown as ways to change from pop3 over.

    There's am option to turn sync email on or off. Currently have it on, so it will mirror what I do on desktop as what I've done on my Z10. If I turn it off, then it will not sync on handheld and desktop, correct?

    "Delete on Handheld" and "Delete in Mailbox"-img_00000411.png

    Also, noting on the Z10 email settings for syncing timeframe, shows up to 30 says, and also then gives a "forever" option. If I select forever, what will happen, as opposed to 30 days?

    "Delete on Handheld" and "Delete in Mailbox"-img_00000410.png


    Posted via CB10
    05-21-13 01:22 AM
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