[Omnitech]

Oh no. Not an issue. Half the sites are on hostgator and the other half on netfirms

I've heard of hostgator but not the other one, when I've got more time and not typing on my Z10 I'll see if i can look up some details on how their systems work.

[Jerry A]

Oh no. Not an issue. Half the sites are on hostgator and the other half on netfirms

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

What are you using to provide SMTP, IMAP and/or CalDAV services?

Mostly wondering if there's a configuration tweak to be made.

[bubbbab]

I've heard of hostgator but not the other one, when I've got more time and not typing on my Z10 I'll see if i can look up some details on how their systems work.

Actually I think the folder thing is good now. Just need to figure out.the calendar thing so I can avoid BlackBerry Link all together for syncing. It really was not a very good offering. Thanks Omni for all the advice. Look forward to any other comments and suggestions.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[bubbbab]

What are you using to provide SMTP, IMAP and/or CalDAV services?

Mostly wondering if there's a configuration tweak to be made.

Smtp is my own server and imap on port 993 seems to be good. Using it on two servers thus far. No calDAV as of yet. Still looking at how to do that.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[unbreakablej]

Why do I have the exact opposite problem? Everything I thought I deleted on my phone don't get deleted on my Gmail

Posted via CB10

[ssbtech]

To add to this: IMAP leaves many details of its implementation up to the server and client design, and that includes what to call "standard" folders like "Sent" (Sent items, Sent, Outbox, etc) or Deleted (Deleted, Deleted items, Trash, Recycle Bin, etc) or spam (Spam, Junk, Junkmail, etc.) and also whether it even attempts to use such folders or not.

I find it interesting that you're so dead set against POP3, yet look at how many people are having issues with a sync'd system, and look at how inconsistent they are. One person has no problems at all, the next has no end of problems.

There's so little that can go wrong with POP3.

[bubbbab]

I find it interesting that you're so dead set against POP3, yet look at how many people are having issues with a sync'd system, and look at how inconsistent they are. One person has no problems at all, the next has no end of problems.

There's so little that can go wrong with POP3.

I don't remember him saying specifically he's against pop but maybe he did. Not sure who you refer to having issues, but I wouldn't put myself in that category. What I have to do, as in any new technology is ri learn about something I've never used before. I'd live it if the old delete on server options were still there. But with little chance of that in future, I have to embrace something else to get the job done. And upon reflection if I can work out the kinks, I think I can get this done on imap. Either that or its activesync on hosted exchange.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[bubbbab]

Why do I have the exact opposite problem? Everything I thought I deleted on my phone don't get deleted on my Gmail

Posted via CB10

Mine isn't Gmail so not sure about that part.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[Jerry A]

Smtp is my own server and imap on port 993 seems to be good. Using it on two servers thus far. No calDAV as of yet. Still looking at how to do that.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

Take a look at ownCloud (http://owncloud.com) or Radicale (Radicale - CalDAV and CardDAV Server - A Simple Calendar and Contact Server).

[Omnitech]

Why do I have the exact opposite problem? Everything I thought I deleted on my phone don't get deleted on my Gmail

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-gmail-773238/
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ing-me-789504/
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...il-z10-789105/

KB33533-Deleting email from Gmail account in BlackBerry Hub does not actually delete the email

And if you're still unhappy with the workarounds discussed in the threads above, there is always this:

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...p-lock-779419/

[unbreakablej]

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-gmail-773238/
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ing-me-789504/
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...il-z10-789105/

KB33533-Deleting email from Gmail account in BlackBerry Hub does not actually delete the email

And if you're still unhappy with the workarounds discussed in the threads above, there is always this:

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...p-lock-779419/

Thanks. Will check them out!

Posted via CB10

[bubbbab]

So carrying on with this process and my anal approach to change, as I see it, on imap, with outlook, when I send an email it would automatically be deposited to the sent items folder in outlook and the server, but on the Z10 for a went item I would have to physically move it to the sent items folder. Os this the way it should work?

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[Omnitech]

So carrying on with this process and my anal approach to change, as I see it, on imap, with outlook, when I send an email it would automatically be deposited to the sent items folder in outlook and the server, but on the Z10 for a went item I would have to physically move it to the sent items folder. Os this the way it should work?

In general, on a syncing email system, any emails sent via that account should end up in a synced "sent" folder of some kind.

If they don't, there is an implementation flaw somewhere.

This way, you can review your email history with any synchronized device.

Also - if I haven't stated here previously - all the timeframe limitations about how far back chronologically a BB10 device can see messages on a synchronized account like IMAP or EAS, and how long it will display a retrieved POP3 message - have been removed in recent builds of OS 10.1.

[bubbbab]

Thanks. I'm trying to reason this out. If that's the case then even on the BlackBerry on imap it should jump to sent items when I send but it stays in the hub as sent. OK more reckoning to do here.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[Omnitech]

Thanks. I'm trying to reason this out. If that's the case then even on the BlackBerry on imap it should jump to sent items when I send but it stays in the hub as sent. OK more reckoning to do here.

It depends on the IMAP provider, how they handle those folders.

There is also some evidence that BB10 may not be handling certain "special folders" in IMAP properly (at least on older OS builds), but it's hard to track down those kinds of issues when you don't have a lot of data to work with including a packet trace of how the device is communicating to the servers. Not to mention providers like Google who can't seem to resist the temptation to "embrace and extend" open standards so that they end up as some kind of proprietary melange when Google gets through with it.

[clupper]

From what I can see, virtually everyone complaining about the lack of that feature is mostly because they had some particular way of doing things that they've been doing for years, they feel comfortable with it and they just don't want to change.

The main impetus that people who want the "delete on phone" feature seems to be that they want to look at the device and "clean up their mailbox", cleaning it out so there is not a bunch of "clutter" there. They want a "clean inbox" or whatever.

What people who think like that don't stop to consider is that there are all sorts of much better ways to accomplish that with a modern syncing email model. To wit:

Clearly any message which is truly unwanted can be deleted on the phone and it thus will be a good thing that that deletion will be quickly propagated to the server and replicated everywhere.

For something that has been "read on the smartphone, that I want to get out of my smartphone view but keep somewhere else for archiving", the solution is simple: move it to a designated folder to be filed later. Since that is exactly what you would be doing in the previous scenario (except probably on a desktop computer somewhere, rather than a handheld device), there is NO extra work involved.

The beautiful thing is that unlike POP3, you can also file things to any folder you want on the smartphone (depending on whether BB10 email client supports full IMAP/EAS folders, and I believe it does), which potentially saves you LOTS of subsequent "filing time" because you can do that on the mobile device when you have time to spare, instead of having to slog through that task later.

The 2nd beautiful thing is that you no longer have to duplicate every single sent message to yourself in order to have a copy somewhere other than the smartphone to refer to later, and you no longer have to deal with filing all those duplicate messages.



BB10 doesn't connect directly to OWA, it requires EAS. (Exchange ActiveSync) Legacy Blackberries used OWA because they did not support EAS natively. In general, a mobile device does not cache full copies of a synced email store (neither would you want to pay the data transfer price for that), though once again that depends on the client architecture and since BB10 devices are not yet available here I'm not going to be the best source of info on those details. (the documentation is not very detailed)

[bubbbab]

It depends on the IMAP provider, how they handle those folders.

There is also some evidence that BB10 may not be handling certain "special folders" in IMAP properly (at least on older OS builds), but it's hard to track down those kinds of issues when you don't have a lot of data to work with including a packet trace of how the device is communicating to the servers. Not to mention providers like Google who can't seem to resist the temptation to "embrace and extend" open standards so that they end up as some kind of proprietary melange when Google gets through with it.

My comment to that would have to be that for a system that is more current technology, imap doesn't sound very consistent. I've invested some time in researching this before making the switch on the desktop, and to be honest, your latest dissertation was a pretty good sales pitch for staying with pop3 despite BlackBerry making it so difficult. As always, thanks for the comments.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[Omnitech]

My comment to that would have to be that for a system that is more current technology, imap doesn't sound very consistent. I've invested some time in researching this before making the switch on the desktop, and to be honest, your latest dissertation was a pretty good sales pitch for staying with pop3 despite BlackBerry making it so difficult. As always, thanks for the comments.

Which "dissertation" was that?

POP3 is a simple protocol, as such it will have fewer implementation variables than more sophisticated alternatives. But it took nearly 20 years to get it even to work reliably in certain respects - many things that are commonly done today to work around POP3 limitations - like "leave on server", were extremely unreliable for many years, because the protocol was never designed to do that.

But the fact that POP3 is simpler than some other alternatives doesn't necessarily make it better or more reliable, and it certainly doesn't necessarily make it more useful or efficient either.

There's an online community I've been an active user of for about 6 or 7 years, and it's always entertaining to see all the people come out of the woodwork whenever they make a system design change - inevitably tons of people scream bloody-murder about how the previous design was much better and why do they have to keep changing it and blah blah blah.

Which by itself might not sound so unreasonable - except when you realize that many of these people are the EXACT SAME people who said the same exact thing about the LAST change, about how that second-to-last system was really the bees-knees, why did they have to change it?!?! Then a year or two later, they come back and passionately defend the beautiful and faultless superiority of the design that a couple years ago they argued was basically, useless and pointless and despicable.

In short: lots of people just get used to things after a while and don't like to change.

[blusls]

Sounds to me like it's up to BlackBerry to come up with all the possible workarounds for those people that are unable to adapt to change. There are ways to deal with this "delete dilemma" but it might mean that people need to think outside the box. This really makes me kinda laugh because where I work there are a lot of "particular" people when it comes to stuff like this and we've had a number of BlackBerry users switch to the iOS dark side with ActiveSync and not once did I ever hear them complain. They didn't care as long as they could have their crapple devices. Point being, they adjusted.

Posted via CB10

Basically, just like when the boss comes in and says that the project you have been working has been, now have start all over with a new project. What do you do????? Adjust!!!!

Posted via my Z10 on busted AT&T

[Omnitech]

Basically, just like when the boss comes in and says that the project you have been working has been, now have start all over with a new project. What do you do????? Adjust!!!!

I think you missed his point, which was that those people were apparently demanding those Apple devices with ActiveSync, they weren't simply "making do" because the company imposed them on them.

[bubbbab]

Basically, just like when the boss comes in and says that the project you have been working has been, now have start all over with a new project. What do you do????? Adjust!!!!

Posted via my Z10 on busted AT&T

Interesting....so BlackBerry is the boss not the customer?

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[MobileMadness002]

In those terms, the email market is the boss and BlackBerry adjusted to accomodate standard IMAP specifications.

[Jerry A]

In those terms, the email market is the boss and BlackBerry adjusted to accomodate standard IMAP specifications.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

More specifically, enough customers left that BlackBerry had to change in order to keep up with the times. They're not going to get those customers back if they're not current and competitive.

[bubbbab]

Which "dissertation" was that?

POP3 is a simple protocol, as such it will have fewer implementation variables than more sophisticated alternatives. But it took nearly 20 years to get it even to work reliably in certain respects - many things that are commonly done today to work around POP3 limitations - like "leave on server", were extremely unreliable for many years, because the protocol was never designed to do that.

But the fact that POP3 is simpler than some other alternatives doesn't necessarily make it better or more reliable, and it certainly doesn't necessarily make it more useful or efficient either.

There's an online community I've been an active user of for about 6 or 7 years, and it's always entertaining to see all the people come out of the woodwork whenever they make a system design change - inevitably tons of people scream bloody-murder about how the previous design was much better and why do they have to keep changing it and blah blah blah.

Which by itself might not sound so unreasonable - except when you realize that many of these people are the EXACT SAME people who said the same exact thing about the LAST change, about how that second-to-last system was really the bees-knees, why did they have to change it?!?! Then a year or two later, they come back and passionately defend the beautiful and faultless superiority of the design that a couple years ago they argued was basically, useless and pointless and despicable.

In short: lots of people just get used to things after a while and don't like to change.

It was the dissertation in which you advise themat BlackBerry 10 may not handle what you call special folders although I don't see them as special. And I at have wrongly interpreted from what you were saying that imap may not be consistently supported on the same way by all servers /providers.

Presented by Dr. Emmett Brown on BlackBerry Z41

[ssbtech]

Hey Omnitech, I took your advice and upgraded to a modern email client. I downloaded the trial of Outlook 2013.

What a horrid POS. Hopefully it hasn't rendered my Outlook.pst file incompatible with 2K3 so I can switch back.