[New_z10_going_back_to_the_store]

I can totally see being frustrated by BlackBerry switching to standard POP3 support. But what do you hope to accomplish by switching to another platform where the behavior will be the same?

If all platforms are the same, then I have less confidence in Blackberry's survival. I could go back in time to a bberry device that supports what I need, but that is even more dumb, because those old devices aren't going to last much longer -- keys already stick, screens are scratched, etc.

The only thing that works in a market-based economy is to vote with your dollars. Blackberry did a hugely dumb thing. It appears that they aren't listening to their users, or aren't listening fast enough, and in either of those scenarios, their survival chances are lower than anyone else's. My initial impression was that z10 and q10 were good enough to keep them in the game, and perhaps start growing again. With this major blunder, they will create even more negative sentiment among formerly happy users. It's a mistake that they can't afford to make.

So, when buying a new device, I have a 2-4 year horizon, and the question is, if I was borderline on Blackberry before this, how do I feel about them continuing to make terrible market and marketing decisions, and what does that imply about how long they'll be around. No question, it's less than 50% probable they'll survive, and being less differentiated and alienating a significant chunk of their user base increases the likelihood of failure. I don't like the others better, but I do need to actively tell Blackberry that they f**d up, and the only meaningful way is by going elsewhere. If it makes them listen, and listen fast, then they will have a better chance at survival.

Regardless of whether this is "standard" or not, it wasn't necessary. There was nothing to be gained by users who don't need this feature, and lots to be gained by those who use it, and by the market differentiation it affords (if they're the only game in town, and I need this functionality, who do I buy from? Certainly not from their competitors.). I don't choose products based on how they are the same. I choose them based on the differences that are important to me. So do most people.

[Omnitech]

I really don't care about all the trollers on this forum who want to preach about how others should use their phones, but don't understand the context and how others' needs are different. For me, having a bberry that deletes emails that I wanted to deal with on my pc is a showstopper. It makes the device unusable. Full stop. There is no satisfactory workaround (and from reading many others' comments, I suspect that is true for the majority of posters here).

Speaking of trolls, what possesses a person like yourself to come here (and register an account with a name specifically designed to ridicule the product and make it clear that your mind is ALREADY MADE UP about not using it any more), apparently for the sole purpose of bashing both the product and the people who use this fora?

Inquiring minds need to know these things. (Including how many posts you will accrue from your current total of 2, for apparently the sole purpose of telling everyone how wrong you think they all are.)

[esd820]

If you want you can create a label in Gmail called garbage and then flag emails that you want to disappear from handheld but stay accessible. Just a work around idea.

Don't forget to flag the option in BlackBerry to not show filed messages.

Posted via CB10

[Crisdean]

I believe this has been advised before. When you're in the Hub and click on the three dots and select refresh that should do the trick for now.

[New_z10_going_back_to_the_store]

Speaking of trolls, what possesses a person like yourself to come here (and register an account with a name specifically designed to ridicule the product and make it clear that your mind is ALREADY MADE UP about not using it any more), apparently for the sole purpose of bashing both the product and the people who use this fora?

Inquiring minds need to know these things. (Including how many posts you will accrue from your current total of 2, for apparently the sole purpose of telling everyone how wrong you think they all are.)

A strange and defensive post indeed.

A long time Blackberry user, I came here looking for help. I bought a new z10, which meant I was showing loyalty and a sign of belief in the future of the company. Unfortunately, what I found was a lot of people like yourself trying to tell others that they are idiots rather than offering help.

My purpose in posting was to hopefully get through to the product managers at Blackberry, who don't seem to understand that it is use cases, and the reasons why, that matter. The technology can be made to do anything, so why force a way upon people that is contrary to what they've been doing successfully for years? No two people manage any aspect of their lives the same way, and it's foolish to assume that the way I use my Blackberry is the same as you -- nor should it be.

I wrote the initial post to explain my frustration, and to tell Blackberry that this was very poorly done from a user perspective. It showed extreme lack of understanding of the "job to be done" by a significant subset of loyal users who now have no good place to turn, but who have been encouraged to look at alternatives because Blackberry has become just like the rest. (If you doubt that, look at how many people have posted here or started other threads with essentially the same question -- it is a very large number of unhappy people.) As a technology product guy myself, I know how valuable this kind of input and understanding is, and how difficult it is to get, because most people simply give up -- they never tell the company why they left, and only share their frustration with other prospective buyers, helping to advance the decline of the company. What's particularly important is the loss of an important piece of differentiation that may be subtle to many, or not used by individuals like yourself, but which upsets the very reason that many chose to use this platform in the first place and to stay with Blackberry. That is a costly mistake, and one that should never have been allowed out of the lab. And, it doesn't affect you in any way, so mocking people who want to use their device this way, as you've done repeatedly, is simply uncalled for.

I have not in any way ridiculed the product. I wouldn't have purchased the product if I didn't like it and want to continue with Blackberry. Unfortunately, this important detail is hidden from view, and you only find out when you actually start to use bb10 for something real. And, like I said, there are no warnings, no documentation, no sales knowledge at the carriers, and no good advice from Blackberry themselves on what to do. This is a mistake by product management (from my and many other users' perspectives) that should, and needs to be corrected, or Blackberry will see many more of these returned to the store and further decline in market share. Moreover, if I tell others of my experience, many of those won't even consider Blackberry when they need to replace whatever they're using now.

I get that POP3 is diminishing and that many consider it an inferior protocol. But, many of us have no choice. A very large number of us still, in fact, and we have very limited choices about what to do. And, some do actually prefer the lack of automated synchronization (synchronization isn't always a good thing, depending what you're trying to do) -- where the rubber meets the road, a lot of idealistic ideas about what's better often fall by the wayside, overtaken by practical issues of utility.

So, not only have I not bashed the product, neither have I've bashed you. Frankly, you're entitled to use and enjoy your z10 (if you have one) anyway you like. Your preferences don't concern me in the least, and mine shouldn't concern you. Nor should how others need/want to use their devices concern you. My mind is made up that the loss of this feature is a deal-breaker for me. It will be for many others too, and if Blackberry cares about keeping some of those users, they need to understand why and do something before it's too late. Workarounds that don't accomplish the same thing don't work.

[Omnitech]

Post edited: picture was unwarranted.

[zeeten]

A strange and defensive post indeed.

A long time Blackberry user, I came here looking for help. I bought a new z10, which meant I was showing loyalty and a sign of belief in the future of the company. Unfortunately, what I found was a lot of people like yourself trying to tell others that they are idiots rather than offering help.

My purpose in posting was to hopefully get through to the product managers at Blackberry, who don't seem to understand that it is use cases, and the reasons why, that matter. The technology can be made to do anything, so why force a way upon people that is contrary to what they've been doing successfully for years? No two people manage any aspect of their lives the same way, and it's foolish to assume that the way I use my Blackberry is the same as you -- nor should it be.

I wrote the initial post to explain my frustration, and to tell Blackberry that this was very poorly done from a user perspective. It showed extreme lack of understanding of the "job to be done" by a significant subset of loyal users who now have no good place to turn, but who have been encouraged to look at alternatives because Blackberry has become just like the rest. (If you doubt that, look at how many people have posted here or started other threads with essentially the same question -- it is a very large number of unhappy people.) As a technology product guy myself, I know how valuable this kind of input and understanding is, and how difficult it is to get, because most people simply give up -- they never tell the company why they left, and only share their frustration with other prospective buyers, helping to advance the decline of the company. What's particularly important is the loss of an important piece of differentiation that may be subtle to many, or not used by individuals like yourself, but which upsets the very reason that many chose to use this platform in the first place and to stay with Blackberry. That is a costly mistake, and one that should never have been allowed out of the lab. And, it doesn't affect you in any way, so mocking people who want to use their device this way, as you've done repeatedly, is simply uncalled for.

I have not in any way ridiculed the product. I wouldn't have purchased the product if I didn't like it and want to continue with Blackberry. Unfortunately, this important detail is hidden from view, and you only find out when you actually start to use bb10 for something real. And, like I said, there are no warnings, no documentation, no sales knowledge at the carriers, and no good advice from Blackberry themselves on what to do. This is a mistake by product management (from my and many other users' perspectives) that should, and needs to be corrected, or Blackberry will see many more of these returned to the store and further decline in market share. Moreover, if I tell others of my experience, many of those won't even consider Blackberry when they need to replace whatever they're using now.

I get that POP3 is diminishing and that many consider it an inferior protocol. But, many of us have no choice. A very large number of us still, in fact, and we have very limited choices about what to do. And, some do actually prefer the lack of automated synchronization (synchronization isn't always a good thing, depending what you're trying to do) -- where the rubber meets the road, a lot of idealistic ideas about what's better often fall by the wayside, overtaken by practical issues of utility.

So, not only have I not bashed the product, neither have I've bashed you. Frankly, you're entitled to use and enjoy your z10 (if you have one) anyway you like. Your preferences don't concern me in the least, and mine shouldn't concern you. Nor should how others need/want to use their devices concern you. My mind is made up that the loss of this feature is a deal-breaker for me. It will be for many others too, and if Blackberry cares about keeping some of those users, they need to understand why and do something before it's too late. Workarounds that don't accomplish the same thing don't work.

It's not a case of just one feature that they decided to discontinue. The reason they had the option to delete on handset before, was because all data was going through their BIS servers. They listened to their many customers (and the carriers) that no longer wanted BIS, so they no longer have the control to delete on handset.

Posted via CB10

[torpesco]

It's not a case of just one feature that they decided to discontinue. The reason they had the option to delete on handset before, was because all data was going through their BIS servers. They listened to their many customers (and the carriers) that no longer wanted BIS, so they no longer have the control to delete on handset.

Posted via CB10

Didn't BES 10 also drop the feature?

Sure, some things require server support, such as compression, but this case is a matter of how data is presented (or not presented) to the user.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

Didn't BES 10 also drop the feature?

Sure, some things require server support, such as compression, but this case is a matter of how data is presented (or not presented) to the user.

You may be right about that (I don't personally have much experience with BES, but I thought I did hear this from someone), but on the other hand, I would guess that the vast majority of people who experienced and used that feature were BIS users. Almost every one of the people here who incessantly bang their drum over that issue definitely were/are BIS users.

[zeeten]

Didn't BES 10 also drop the feature?

Sure, some things require server support, such as compression, but this case is a matter of how data is presented (or not presented) to the user.

Posted via CB10

I may be wrong on this, but I think the reason BES10 also is no longer capable is because the new server uses Exchange Active Sync. Which is why the previous phones need to still run through the old servers.
Which is also why we don't require any special BES plan with BB10.

Posted via CB10

[redgo]

So need to vent....I've been a loyal bb user for 10+ years. Waited around for the new bb q10 to be released and picked one up a few days ago. Already went back to my bold and will be returning the Q10. The following is a list of things that the new bb10 can not do....

-as many of you mentioned in this thread, I want the option to reconcile email from handheld to my outlook. For me, it is important to have the option to delete emails from handheld but not on outlook mail box. I understand this may not be critical for most but it is what I have relied in for years and one of the only reasons why I have been a loyal bb user.

-when I open and read Emil on my bb, I do not want it to show as read on my outlook mail box. this is how I am setup on my bold and there is no such option on the q10

-I am not a big app guy but I do have facebook. Even though I have turned off contact on FB, when composing a new email all the FB contacts come up.

I so want to continue to be a loyal bb customer, however these are some big mistakes by bb and may make me look at other options.

[Kris Simundson]

So need to vent....I've been a loyal bb user for 10+ years. Waited around for the new bb q10 to be released and picked one up a few days ago. Already went back to my bold and will be returning the Q10. The following is a list of things that the new bb10 can not do....

-as many of you mentioned in this thread, I want the option to reconcile email from handheld to my outlook. For me, it is important to have the option to delete emails from handheld but not on outlook mail box. I understand this may not be critical for most but it is what I have relied in for years and one of the only reasons why I have been a loyal bb user.

-when I open and read Emil on my bb, I do not want it to show as read on my outlook mail box. this is how I am setup on my bold and there is no such option on the q10

-I am not a big app guy but I do have facebook. Even though I have turned off contact on FB, when composing a new email all the FB contacts come up.

I so want to continue to be a loyal bb customer, however these are some big mistakes by bb and may make me look at other options.

The first two points as mentioned used to be controlled by the BIS server, without that BlackBerry needs to find a new way to implement this.

As for facebook contacts, when you got to settings - accounts - facebook, turn off contact sync

Posted via my awesome community driven Q10

[Jerry A]

I so want to continue to be a loyal bb customer, however these are some big mistakes by bb and may make me look at other options.

So, BlackBerry implementing email in a modern fashion is so bad that you'll look at other options that all work the same way as the current BlackBerry implementation?

I'm confused.

At some point technology moves way beyond the way things used to work. Even my Great Aunt had to eventually give up her rotary phone.

[J09GTSGraphite]

The first two points as mentioned used to be controlled by the BIS server, without that BlackBerry needs to find a new way to implement this.

As for facebook contacts, when you got to settings - accounts - facebook, turn off contact sync

Posted via my awesome community driven Q10

Kris,
I only see sync messages, enable notifications, sync friends, and find friends.
Not contact sync...
This is in the phone's settings, right?


Posted via CB10

[redgo]

Tired that... Still facebook contacts come up when composing new emails or texts.

[redgo]

So, BlackBerry implementing email in a modern fashion is so bad that you'll look at other options that all work the same way as the current BlackBerry implementation?

I'm confused.


At some point technology moves way beyond the way things used to work. Even my Great Aunt had to eventually give up her rotary phone.

But all the options with its email was the only thing bb had on iOS or android.

[redgo]

Here is another point that got me really going...currently I have my companies email hosted exchanged with godaddy as well as my Bb server. I don't mind paying the extra fees and want to continue to use BES. However, BES 10 is not available for all the hosted exchange provider at this time. I contacted multiple providers and they tell me bb has not released it for them and was not ready. why the hell would bb release a phone without all their shot together?

[redgo]

So, BlackBerry implementing email in a modern fashion is so bad that you'll look at other options that all work the same way as the current BlackBerry implementation?

I'm confused.


At some point technology moves way beyond the way things used to work. Even my Great Aunt had to eventually give up her rotary phone.

Also... Old farts like me are the only one still with a bb. I'm not that old, 34. Don't you think they should offer these options to their loyal customer that stuck with them through all these years when everyone around us have moved on to other platforms. Bottomline... Bb missed the mark big time. I hate to say this since I have been the biggest bb user... But I think this was thier Hail Mary and it came up incomplete. Game over!

[Jerry A]

See, I don't think they missed the mark. They did exactly what you suggested (catered to the loyal) with BBOS7 and it nearly buried the company.

Now they're catering to the market. And I think that's a smart move. It's going to be the only way to win over users from other platforms.

[redgo]

See, I don't think they missed the mark. They did exactly what you suggested (catered to the loyal) with BBOS7 and it nearly buried the company.

Now they're catering to the market. And I think that's a smart move. It's going to be the only way to win over users from other platforms.

That's a valid point....but if indeed they are going after the market they will never gain market share with the lack of apps that the majority of people want. Again.. I'm not a big app guy, but I got message that chase bank will no longer support their bb app. That's insane! I'm going stick with my bold for now. Hopefully bb with other these email options again and I can move on to bb10.

[Jerry A]

Here is another point that got me really going...currently I have my companies email hosted exchanged with godaddy as well as my Bb server. I don't mind paying the extra fees and want to continue to use BES. However, BES 10 is not available for all the hosted exchange provider at this time. I contacted multiple providers and they tell me bb has not released it for them and was not ready. why the hell would bb release a phone without all their shot together?

ActiveSync is all you need. It supports all the policies that BES5 supported.

BES10 is a MDM solution for enterprise management of resources and sandboxing of data. If that's what you need then hosted is not the way to go.

The same holds true for any other apples-to-apples (MDM solutions) competitor to BES10, like Good or MobileIron.

[Jerry A]

That's a valid point....but if indeed they are going after the market they will never gain market share with the lack of apps that the majority of people want. Again.. I'm not a big app guy, but I got message that chase bank will no longer support their bb app. That's insane! I'm going stick with my bold for now. Hopefully bb with other these email options again and I can move on to bb10.

Agreed. It's the same uphill fight that Windows Phone is facing. Sadly, that platform has a 2-year lead on BlackBerry.

The real question is how can BlackBerry get creative enough to stay in the game?

[belfastdispatcher]

See, I don't think they missed the mark. They did exactly what you suggested (catered to the loyal) with BBOS7 and it nearly buried the company.

Now they're catering to the market. And I think that's a smart move. It's going to be the only way to win over users from other platforms.

They didn't though, while many of us still prefer OS7 devices they nearly screwed those up too, they were also very delayed, they came with small batteries, it took a few months to get all the features promised with the OS7.1 update and some had bricking and sunlight problems.

[Omnitech]

But all the options with its email was the only thing bb had on iOS or android.

Don't be ridiculous.

I never fail to be amazed at how myopic so many people are when it comes to their favorite features. As if the only thing in the world is that feature, or lack of it.

Suffice to say, there has and still is far more that differentiates a Blackberry from other platforms than "all the options with email".

Here is another point that got me really going...currently I have my companies email hosted exchanged with godaddy as well as my Bb server. I don't mind paying the extra fees and want to continue to use BES. However, BES 10 is not available for all the hosted exchange provider at this time. I contacted multiple providers and they tell me bb has not released it for them and was not ready. why the hell would bb release a phone without all their shot together?

ExchangeMyMail


That email provider supports BES10 for BB10 devices, ie Z10, Q10.

GoDaddy has never been a premium provider, they are a cheap commodity provider. Do NOT expect them to be on the cutting-edge of anything.

[Jerry A]

Double-check with them. I believe that BB10 device support == ActiveSync.