11-12-15 08:05 PM
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  1. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Bad analogy. One still works exactly as intended, The other is unusable. Obsolete is not the same as broken.

    Posted via CB10
    Not exactly as intended if the battery has gone inert, or lost most of its capacity. But I shouldn't argue since I agree that BB10 is not dead, and by some measure neither is WebOS. It is up to each person to decide what measures to use. Clearly there is some people who are still willing to buy a palm pre or there wouldn't be people selling them. I know very large enterprises that still use BBOS devices and still buy new 99xx.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2639
    10-30-15 11:30 PM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Not exactly as intended if the battery has gone inert, or lost most of its capacity. But I shouldn't argue since I agree that BB10 is not dead, and by some measure neither is WebOS. It is up to each person to decide what measures to use. Clearly there is some people who are still willing to buy a palm pre or there wouldn't be people selling them. I know very large enterprises that still use BBOS devices and still buy new 99xx.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2639
    Yes, if there's a non-removable. Non-functioning battery, it's a good analogy!

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-15 06:12 AM
  3. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I don't think that WebOS gets any security patches, but I do believe that BB10 will get patches over the next 2-3 years.

    Their latest message to their bb10 devs was also "our commitment to BlackBerry 10 remains strong. We’ll continue to invest in and evolve the platform."

    I really really don't need any new features, but a continous polishing of the existing features.
    As long as my device will be working as it works today, I am happy.

    PS: What did they mean by "evolve the platform"?
    10-31-15 06:21 AM
  4. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    As someone who has several devices running dead/zombie OSes, like Meego, Maemo, and now BB10, one factor that will make a big difference is the community of developers and users who stay behind and keep toying with BB10 devices. As the companies back away from OSes like these, the fan community has to step up. And Im not sure how well BB10's will do.

    I first learned of BB10 through refugee developers who were migrating here from our corporate-disavowed Nokia N9/Meego tech. This community of Nokia-related people was itself was much less corporate dependant, because the independent developer app repository system was strong in the N900 and N9 world. We knew our developers, and we could get software directly from them through their various repo's even after the official app stores were dead or had fallen into irrelevancy. In BB10 we did this with Snap and side-loading a .bar file provided directly by the developer, so it can be done, but there is not as strong a tradition of this sort of development as far as I can tell.
    10-31-15 08:17 AM
  5. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    As someone who has several devices running dead/zombie OSes, like Meego, Maemo, and now BB10, one factor that will make a big difference is the community of developers and users who stay behind and keep toying with BB10 devices. As the companies back away from OSes like these, the fan community has to step up. And Im not sure how well BB10's will do.

    I first learned of BB10 through refugee developers who were migrating here from our corporate-disavowed Nokia N9/Meego tech. This community of Nokia-related people was itself was much less corporate dependant, because the independent developer app repository system was strong in the N900 and N9 world. We knew our developers, and we could get software directly from them through their various repo's even after the official app stores were dead or had fallen into irrelevancy. In BB10 we did this with Snap and side-loading a .bar file provided directly by the developer, so it can be done, but there is not as strong a tradition of this sort of development as far as I can tell.
    I don't know if there is now, but there certainly was in the early BBOS days before BlackBerry World existed. On BBOS one can install an application by simply browsing to a web URL. That was how many of the applications I wrote back then were distributed.

    BB10 would require more technical acumen but with the developer tools it is easy to install BAR files to a device, and you mentioned some even easier ways. Who knows what will happen if BlackBerry World is closed or falls into irrelevance. But that won't happen over night. I just installed an update to my PlayBook a while ago, and people are still downloading my BBOS applications from BlackBerry World and other places.



    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2639
    10-31-15 08:56 AM
  6. pbfan's Avatar
    I guess you missed my point so I will try again. BlackBerry has a habit of not finishing what they start. To have an OS SDK that you can't draw a circle is silly. BlackBerry couldn't get developers to the platform as they saw them abandon the PlayBook and then take so long to release an incomplete OS that they had to jump through hoops to get to draw a circle. Developers stayed on the sideline as they didn't see BlackBerry going for the long game to stick it out. And they were right. PlayBook was 18 months, BB10 was 18 months before they stopped development. BlackBerry Android will probably be gone in ~18 months. They don't have long term vision.
    So your example is not appropriate. Drawing a circle has nothing to do with a reporting service. And it never should.
    10-31-15 09:10 AM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    PS: What did they mean by "evolve the platform"?
    Evolution has dead ends. They will evolve the platform into extinction.
    10-31-15 09:25 AM
  8. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Personally, I don't dispute the fact that BlackBerry is moving away from BB10. I just don't agree with mischaracterizing BB10 as dead or EOL.
    The main problem of this thread is how people define "dead".

    a) Some say BB10 is alive as long as the devices work
    b) Others wait for an official announcement like: no further patches, no new devices
    c) Me (and others) regard the platform as dead as the manufacturer stated that there are no future changes apart from security fixes and no new devices planned.

    If you want to stick to your definition: I don't care but that doesn't change the fact that the OS has failed commercially and is now being abandoned by the manufacturer.

    My next device will certainly not be a BB10 device. It may be not dead by your way of defining things but it's certainly a dead end.
    10-31-15 11:06 AM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    We're not saying BB10 is dead, but here is the one developer left on the program.

    10-31-15 11:15 AM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    We're not saying BB10 is dead, but here is the one developer left on the program.
    Hope he doesn't burn the building down...
    ppeters914 likes this.
    10-31-15 12:38 PM
  11. ChrisLeNeve's Avatar
    Apparently a consultant will put him out of his job as well.

    Forgive my typos, I don't look when I type
    10-31-15 02:37 PM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So your example is not appropriate. Drawing a circle has nothing to do with a reporting service. And it never should.
    Ever do a dashboard for reporting? Lots of circles and pie charts on those. It is valid.
    10-31-15 04:37 PM
  13. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Evolution has dead ends. They will evolve the platform into extinction.
    As someone who has no insights of the IT industry, I have a different impression.

    My impression is that the CEO honestly believes in the advantages of BB10, but the business case forces him to put BB10 in this extended support mode.
    To me it seems they want to keep BB10, but they can't afford any further big investments in the foreseeable future.
    This is how I read it.

    What I will never understand is the BES-centered business model, which totally killed the "street credibility" of BBOS and BB10.

    I try to explain it:

    I used Windows Ultimate (now W10 Pro) on my private computer.
    Then one day I talked about my security settings with an administrator in my company.
    The guy told me that he can do exactly the same via Active Directory for a huge number of Windows installations.

    Since that experience, my expectation for BB10 has always been that a consumer should have access to exactly the same features like a BES admin.
    If the phone belongs to me, I have full control over features like Balance, BBM Protected, S/MIME, some sort of certificate pinning etc etc...
    If the phone belongs to my company, my company takes over full control with BES.

    There shouldn't be any imperative that private security must be lower than enterprise security, but that is exactly what BlackBerry is trying to sell and obviously nobody is buying this bs.

    I believe the only way out to sell more BB10 devices would be to beef up the security/privacy features, even for people without BES.
    But I don't see them going this way...so.
    10-31-15 08:15 PM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    As someone who has no insights of the IT industry, I have a different impression.

    My impression is that the CEO honestly believes in the advantages of BB10, but the business case forces him to put BB10 in this extended support mode.
    To me it seems they want to keep BB10, but they can't afford any further big investments in the foreseeable future.
    This is how I read it.

    What I will never understand is the BES-centered business model, which totally killed the "street credibility" of BBOS and BB10.

    I try to explain it:

    I used Windows Ultimate (now W10 Pro) on my private computer.
    Then one day I talked about my security settings with an administrator in my company.
    The guy told me that he can do exactly the same via Active Directory for a huge number of Windows installations.

    Since that experience, my expectation for BB10 has always been that a consumer should have access to exactly the same features like a BES admin.
    If the phone belongs to me, I have full control over features like Balance, BBM Protected, S/MIME, some sort of certificate pinning etc etc...
    If the phone belongs to my company, my company takes over full control with BES.

    There shouldn't be any imperative that private security must be lower than enterprise security, but that is exactly what BlackBerry is trying to sell and obviously nobody is buying this bs.

    I believe the only way out to sell more BB10 devices would be to beef up the security/privacy features, even for people without BES.
    But I don't see them going this way...so.
    As an IT admin, there are a lot of security settings that I can change by Active Directory that you cannot as a user. And to use Active Directory, you need a Domain Controller server (think BES). Balance is when you need your own private space and your company needs it's space on your device. That is the main reason. I have yet to see many cases where an individual needs enterprise features, but if you really wanted it, it would only cost you 30 dollars a year for the cloud BES. Most consumers wouldn't know how to use the cloud based BES anyway.
    11-01-15 08:00 AM
  15. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    As an IT admin, there are a lot of security settings that I can change by Active Directory that you cannot as a user.
    Being only a user here, I am familiiar using SRP/Applocker, policies for public keys, certificate pinning for Outlook (via EMET), disabled SSL3 and weak cipher suites for Schannel, and few other tweaks (although I never found time to fully explore all the other security options in gpedit/secpol....)
    Some kind of "monitoring" with eventvwr and 2-3 tools from Sysinternals (Mark Russinovich)...

    Now, I would bet that you cannot further enhance the security of my pc with AD, at least not significantly.
    To avoid any misunderstanding, I'm confident you would find enough things you could improve without using AD.

    The main advantage of AD seems to be control.
    The admin has the control and not the user.


    And to use Active Directory, you need a Domain Controller server (think BES).
    Yes, absolutely.
    I think that the DCS (?) respectively the likes of BES are absolutely necessary to make sure that an administrator can do the job.
    Without these, without control, the employees could fiddle with the device settings and it would be a total, unadministratable mess.


    Balance is when you need your own private space and your company needs it's space on your device. That is the main reason. I have yet to see many cases where an individual needs enterprise features, but if you really wanted it, it would only cost you 30 dollars a year for the cloud BES. Most consumers wouldn't know how to use the cloud based BES anyway.
    Balance
    Look at spaces from Blackphone, no server needed to activate this.

    S/MIME
    Works with the native iOS client, no server needed to activate this.
    And it works also with IMAP on the iPhone.

    BBM Protected
    Look at Threema (simple subscription model), no server needed.

    I have heared about firwall applications for rooted Androids, BB10 basically has the internet permission (it's just deactivated)

    And looking at the authenticiation model for BES traffic, I (purely) speculate they could easily implement certificate pinning for the network connections with the e-mail client and the browser.

    BB10 could be so much more secure out-of-the box.
    Maybe some very small enterprise would stop buying BES licenses, but in return the hardware business would do better, because the devices would have better street credibility again.
    11-01-15 09:32 AM
  16. PHughes's Avatar
    How is it different than signing into BBID?

    Secure doesn't mean what you think it means.

    Posted via CB10
    The only way it differs is in the two companies' philosophies. Google tracks you and sells that info to advertisers, and Blackberry respects your privacy. How much of that you can live with determines which company you prefer.
    11-01-15 01:37 PM
  17. pbfan's Avatar
    Ever do a dashboard for reporting? Lots of circles and pie charts on those. It is valid.
    You were not talking with programmer's language and misusing report services for reporting display.
    11-01-15 06:58 PM
  18. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    You were not talking with programmer's language and misusing report services for reporting display.
    I just can't seem to parse any sense out of that sentence. Can you show us some code?
    ChrisLeNeve likes this.
    11-01-15 07:11 PM
  19. xiaorui2004's Avatar
    it's cost

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-15 06:49 AM
  20. pbfan's Avatar
    I just can't seem to parse any sense out of that sentence. Can you show us some code?
    What code you are asking for?
    11-02-15 09:11 AM
  21. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    What code you are asking for?
    Some code to draw circles in cascades.
    11-02-15 09:19 AM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You were not talking with programmer's language and misusing report services for reporting display.
    No sense having reporting services when you don't output anything. LOL. They are one in the same.
    11-02-15 01:03 PM
  23. pbfan's Avatar
    No sense having reporting services when you don't output anything. LOL. They are one in the same.
    That is not true. Displaying can be done completely with raw data reported. It does not have to decided by the reporter.
    11-03-15 09:01 AM
  24. pbfan's Avatar
    Some code to draw circles in cascades.
    We were discussing the concept for reporting and no code was involved.
    11-03-15 09:05 AM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    That is not true. Displaying can be done completely with raw data reported. It does not have to decided by the reporter.
    You haven't had to program reporting for an enterprise have you? I would be fired if I just gave a bunch of raw data with no resemblance to comparison data.
    beowulf101 likes this.
    11-05-15 08:47 PM
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