11-12-15 08:05 PM
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  1. app_Developer's Avatar
    So, for you, if it's not "cool" and "new" and what "everyone else" is using it's dead. My definition is somewhat different. If it functions as designed, meets all business requirements and is officially supported, it's not dead.
    It all depends on how you define "dead". Forgetting that word for a moment, can we all agree on the following facts:

    1.) BB10 continues to work on the devices in people's hands today. BB will continue to sell the BB10 phones it has in inventory, as well as phones built from parts they currently have in inventory. This is critical for their financial health as they continue their slow transformation to software.

    2.) BB will continue to provide support for BB10, including security patches, but not likely any significant new features.

    3.) BB in very unlikely to create any new phone models running BB10.

    4.) BB is unlikely to invest much in advertising BB10 (probably not a new thing!)

    5.) BB has discontinued support for developers on the platform.

    6.) BB10 sales are likely to continue their decline over the next quarters.

    Now, whether that constitutes "alive" or "dead" or on life support, or whatever you want to say, is just a word, right? We can at least say the future for BB10 is not very bright, right?
    JeepBB and Maxxxpower like this.
    10-12-15 05:04 PM
  2. BCITMike's Avatar
    No. I hear it is simple so it should be simple to share the code to do it.
    So making a circle is possible, just was too much work for you. Big distinction when you go around saying the SDK is incomplete and unable to draw a circle. In the end, it was as I expected.

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-15 05:06 PM
  3. BCITMike's Avatar
    It all depends on how you define "dead". Forgetting that word for a moment, can we all agree on the following facts:

    1.) BB10 continues to work on the devices in people's hands today. BB will continue to sell the BB10 phones it has in inventory, as well as phones built from parts they currently have in inventory. This is critical for their financial health as they continue their slow transformation to software.

    2.) BB will continue to provide support for BB10, including security patches, but not likely any significant new features.

    3.) BB in very unlikely to create any new phone models running BB10.

    4.) BB is unlikely to invest much in advertising BB10 (probably not a new thing!)

    5.) BB has discontinued support for developers on the platform.

    6.) BB10 sales are likely to continue their decline over the next quarters.

    Now, whether that constitutes "alive" or "dead" or on life support, or whatever you want to say, is just a word, right? We can at least say the future for BB10 is not very bright, right?
    Agreed. Unless they tie health market to secure BB10 devices and government goes for the encrypted phone device at $1000+, BB10's future is not bright.

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-15 05:09 PM
  4. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    So, for you, if it's not "cool" and "new" and what "everyone else" is using it's dead. My definition is somewhat different. If it functions as designed, meets all business requirements and is officially supported, it's not dead.

    Yours is the individual consumer perspective, which I understand, and which dominates the market currently. But my needs are different, so I will be happy to run BB10 on a new Passport for the next 2-3 years or until another Mobile OS is as good for my needs. As of now, Windows phones probably come the closest, but I'll wait and see. So long as I have current functionality I'm fine.

    Posted via CB10
    Given all the enterprise accounts that have ditched BlackBerry handsets in favor of the high-end all-touch devices of the thriving OSes (iOS and Android), its more than just a consumer/enterprise issue.

    Even if youre in business, what business can afford to ignore all of the advantages offered by the leading iOS/Android solutions and instead have the attitude that itll stay on developer-abandoned, zombie BB10 for the next three years? Itll be like bringing a knife to a gun fight as your competitors eat you alive, just like BlackBerry was eaten alive!

    Windows Phone will be dead soon, too. Check out Tomi Ahonen's blog on it: http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...t-year-or.html
    10-12-15 05:34 PM
  5. 6stringriffs's Avatar
    Given all the enterprise accounts that have ditched BlackBerry handsets in favor of the high-end all-touch devices of the thriving OSes (iOS and Android), it’s more than just a consumer/enterprise issue.

    Windows Phone will be dead soon, too. Check out Tomi Ahonen's blog on it: Communities Dominate Brands: Where Next for Microsoft? - As the mercy killing of Lumia and Windows Phone will happen in next year or two, what impacts to Microsoft world domination plans?
    That article is old. They have Windows 10 and incredibly visible to anyone that watches NFL football. Something that can't be said about Blackberry for any sport linked to Canadian culture (hockey? curling?)

    MSFT is at least have an entire ecosystem of products not just pocket computer phones. And they are at least making the effort to bring some innovation to the pocket device field with their 'continuum' feature: W10 phone attached to a monitor/keyboard/mouse and it acts likes a PC. We'll see if it takes off. They're even doing universal apps, so that andy apps can work on W10 devices. Again we'll see. The point is they're innovating... more than I can say about BB. They're just leveraging their past strengths (i.e. security) and placing it on an established platform. Not really doing anything new.
    10-12-15 05:55 PM
  6. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    That article is old. They have Windows 10 and incredibly visible to anyone that watches NFL football. Something that can't be said about Blackberry for any sport linked to Canadian culture (hockey? curling?)

    MSFT is at least have an entire ecosystem of products not just pocket computer phones. And they are at least making the effort to bring some innovation to the pocket device field with their 'continuum' feature: W10 phone attached to a monitor/keyboard/mouse and it acts likes a PC. We'll see if it takes off. They're even doing universal apps, so that andy apps can work on W10 devices. Again we'll see. The point is they're innovating... more than I can say about BB. They're just leveraging their past strengths (i.e. security) and placing it on an established platform. Not really doing anything new.
    The article was from July 10th of this year, so its not so old at all.

    MicroSucks has spent billions on Windows Phone, each iteration claiming to be the one thatll breakthrough (sound familiar?), but their results still suck(sound familiar?).

    So yeah, M$ are in better shape than BlackBerry, but they have been for some time, given their massive cash. Nevertheless, their mobile efforts have been a huge failure and cutting all that smartphone talent in multiple rounds of layoffs is a sign that theyre on their way out, just like the layoffs at BlackBerry were a sign. The smartphone competition is simply too fierce to fight with half an army (after layoffs) or with one hand tied behind your back. As soon as these small fish contenders blink or run out cash, theyre dead.
    Richard Buckley likes this.
    10-12-15 06:24 PM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So making a circle is possible, just was too much work for you. Big distinction when you go around saying the SDK is incomplete and unable to draw a circle. In the end, it was as I expected.

    Posted via CB10
    Everything is possible, but you shouldn't as a developer jump through hoops to get simple elements. Cascades doesn't have any support for circles, you have to hook in the Qt libraries to get it done. So as I said, native SDK and Cascades is incomplete.
    10-12-15 07:11 PM
  8. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    That article is old. They have Windows 10 and incredibly visible to anyone that watches NFL football. Something that can't be said about Blackberry for any sport linked to Canadian culture (hockey? curling?)

    MSFT is at least have an entire ecosystem of products not just pocket computer phones. And they are at least making the effort to bring some innovation to the pocket device field with their 'continuum' feature: W10 phone attached to a monitor/keyboard/mouse and it acts likes a PC. We'll see if it takes off. They're even doing universal apps, so that andy apps can work on W10 devices. Again we'll see. The point is they're innovating... more than I can say about BB. They're just leveraging their past strengths (i.e. security) and placing it on an established platform. Not really doing anything new.
    Yes. Everyone said that Windows phone is dead, but they keep working at it and trying to do different things to make it work and work better. BlackBerry just gave up.
    10-12-15 07:12 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    Everything is possible, but you shouldn't as a developer jump through hoops to get simple elements. Cascades doesn't have any support for circles, you have to hook in the Qt libraries to get it done. So as I said, native SDK and Cascades is incomplete.
    So, isn't drawing a circle in a view on this platform pretty comparable to other platforms?

    How do you want to see it work?
    10-12-15 07:30 PM
  10. ppeters914's Avatar
    That's my take as well. What's funny is that after all the commotion about what he said, he came back to "clarify" his words. However, I saw no clarification, but rather just a repeat of the same things he said the first time.

    Posted via CB10
    Department of Redundancy Department.

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2789‎
    10-12-15 08:25 PM
  11. ppeters914's Avatar
    As I read this thread, I keep hearing:

    Dr. McCoy say "He's dead, Jim."

    Spock say "Fascinating."

    Monty Python's Norwegian Blue skit.

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2789‎
    10-12-15 08:49 PM
  12. Gees97's Avatar
    Nice try, but they don't listen. How many times have they been told and refuse to acknowledge?

    Posted via CB10
    If you tell people BlackBerry is done you'll recieve a PM from moderators saying " you have been warned" and your comment will be removed. It's been clear for all these years BlackBerry has been failing. I'm simply here still because I enjoy having a phone that no one else uses. Trust me, no one uses a BlackBerry anymore.

    "Once you go Black you'll never go back"
    10-12-15 09:08 PM
  13. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    So, isn't drawing a circle in a view on this platform pretty comparable to other platforms?

    How do you want to see it work?
    I haven't developed for iOS, but Cascades is significantly different from Android. Though when you listen to Bluenoser you end up going back and forth between Cascades is built on Qt, and using Qt to deal with drawing circles means Cascades is unfinished. The truth is you can't write a Cascades program without using some Qt, but at the same time you can't use all Qt.

    Except for marking up maps, Cascades does not deal with graphics primitives like pens, ellipses and polygons. Cascades essentially deals with bb : : cascades::Image objects and Text elements. It is more complex than that but for application graphics Cascades uses the Image class. The application can provide the images as a resource, load it from local storage, load it via the network, or generate it procedurally. What we are talking about here is generating it procedurally.

    To do that you could write your own graphics library or use Qt graphics libraries and then format the data as an Image that Cascades expects. I suppose if TAT had included a function call in the Image class that exposed a painter and control methods Bluenoser might consider it finished. There is published code that anyone can use. Mine is different from that because for my applications my code is more efficient. So I would have written my implementation anyway. I have reimplemented many classes in Qt and Cascades. But that is what one does in C++.

    Of course there is nothing stopping any programmer from sub classing Image and providing that capability. In fact I looked at doing exactly that. But it turns out to be less efficient and a rich source of bugs. So I used a different pattern. One issue is that the Qt paintable collection is rich and presents many configuration parameters. To extend the Image one would have to handle them all, or limit the programmers' choice. If someone wants to call the result jumping through hoops I suppose that is their prerogative. I believe making informed decisions about the best process to use is a core competency of a programmer. Good libraries are written to hide complexity that is not useful, but expose complexity that provides useful alternatives.

    But mostly I see this a a tempest in a teapot. I can draw circles, or whatever else I want. They are displayed on the screen efficiently, and used in the UI efficiently. Compared to setting up slots and signals, registering class with QML and all the other "jumping through hoops" the code in this case is small beer.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2639
    Joshu42 likes this.
    10-12-15 09:32 PM
  14. ppeters914's Avatar
    I'm simply here still because A I enjoy having a phone that no one else uses. B Trust me, no one uses a BlackBerry anymore.
    Sorry, but your statements contradict each other. If B was true, then all of us posting with a BB10 model in our signatures are......what?

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2789‎
    10-12-15 10:53 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar

    Even if youre in business, what business can afford to ignore all of the advantages offered by the leading iOS/Android solutions and instead have the attitude that itll stay on developer-abandoned, zombie BB10 for the next three years? Itll be like bringing a knife to a gun fight as your competitors eat you alive,
    I guess it depends on the nature of your business. Apps don't matter much in my line of work. And I pretty much always need access to a "real" OS like Linux, Windows or Mac OS. For me, a phone with the built in BB10 native apps and browser, combined with a top notch laptop is more efficient than a bunch of separate "unipurpose" mobile apps that don't integrate with each other very well.

    Also, IF I need to work in a mobile app, I'd rather have a full-size tablet than an undersized phone screen.

    I get why people want to carry a single device in their private lives and will accept performance compromises for convenience. But I still communicate with my clients and vendors via email, voice, and web-based applications. Moreover, the files we share require software applications that only run on "real" computers.

    In addition, many mobile websites are now as good or better than the same companies' mobile apps. I've replaced a few dozen apps with shortcuts to mobile sites, including my bank, city parking, movie guides, twitter, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 10-13-15 at 05:06 AM.
    10-12-15 11:30 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It all depends on how you define "dead". Forgetting that word for a moment, can we all agree on the following facts:

    1.) BB10 continues to work on the devices in people's hands today. BB will continue to sell the BB10 phones it has in inventory, as well as phones built from parts they currently have in inventory. This is critical for their financial health as they continue their slow transformation to software.

    2.) BB will continue to provide support for BB10, including security patches, but not likely any significant new features.

    3.) BB in very unlikely to create any new phone models running BB10.

    4.) BB is unlikely to invest much in advertising BB10 (probably not a new thing!)

    5.) BB has discontinued support for developers on the platform.

    6.) BB10 sales are likely to continue their decline over the next quarters.

    Now, whether that constitutes "alive" or "dead" or on life support, or whatever you want to say, is just a word, right? We can at least say the future for BB10 is not very bright, right?
    Yeah, I agree with that completely.

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-15 11:31 PM
  17. kvndoom's Avatar
    Yes. Everyone said that Windows phone is dead, but they keep working at it and trying to do different things to make it work and work better. BlackBerry just gave up.
    MS could buy Blackberry with lint out of its pocket. Microsoft has a history of taking mg huge losses for years before turning a profit on an endeavor. It lost a ton of money on xbox for a long time before that division became profitable. When you are sitting on 11 or 12 figures and have multiple profitable ventures (Windows and Office) you can afford pet projects that bleed money for a while. Windows Phone may bleed billions for years to come but they can afford it.

    Blackberry is a one trick pony without a lot of cash, and let's face it, 3 billion isn't a lot in this particular business, and when you're a one trick pony that trick better be turning a profit.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-13-15 12:36 AM
  18. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    MS could buy Blackberry with lint out of its pocket. Microsoft has a history of taking mg huge losses for years before turning a profit on an endeavor. It lost a ton of money on xbox for a long time before that division became profitable. When you are sitting on 11 or 12 figures and have multiple profitable ventures (Windows and Office) you can afford pet projects that bleed money for a while. Windows Phone may bleed billions for years to come but they can afford it.

    Blackberry is a one trick pony without a lot of cash, and let's face it, 3 billion isn't a lot in this particular business, and when you're a one trick pony that trick better be turning a profit.
    More than one pony but a very small stable.
    10-13-15 01:09 AM
  19. vgorous's Avatar
    It's not like your phone will stop working.

    Posted via CB10
    10-13-15 01:39 AM
  20. Lendo's Avatar
    It's not like your phone will stop working.

    Posted via CB10
    Eventually they all stop working.

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk
    10-13-15 01:43 AM
  21. kbz1960's Avatar
    For those that carry 3 devices because their BlackBerry doesn't do it all.. . I thought BB10 was the BlackBerry OS that was supposed to eliminate that need. Wasn't that what they were saying at first?
    10-13-15 09:42 AM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For those that carry 3 devices because their BlackBerry doesn't do it all.. . I thought BB10 was the BlackBerry OS that was supposed to eliminate that need. Wasn't that what they were saying at first?
    It really depends on the nature of your work. If the only thing you need is phone, email, tasks, notes, calendar, access to files for basic editing and Internet, BB10 is best-in-class. Even more so if you maintain a number of email accounts and calendars and if you type a lot on your phone (both the physical and virtual keyboards are fantastic.)

    It can handle a lot of Android apps too, but not as well as an Android phone, obviously.

    However, no mobile phone is a replacement for a laptop or desktop computer for serious work. So most people will need at least two devices. For me, my BlackBerry and laptop are almost always with me when I'm working.

    As for a third device, I don't see the need, but I'd rather carry a third device (tablet) if I needed additional Android or iOS apps than give my workflow and typing experience on my BlackBerry.

    For me BB10 + laptop for now...maybe laptop only with VOIP soon, which I'd prefer to a phone only solution.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of serious work could be done on a mobile phone alone. Smart phones are still exceptionally weak computers.

    Posted via CB10
    10-13-15 01:02 PM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    It really depends on the nature of your work. If the only thing you need is phone, email, tasks, notes, calendar, access to files for basic editing and Internet, BB10 is best-in-class. Even more so if you maintain a number of email accounts and calendars and if you type a lot on your phone (both the physical and virtual keyboards are fantastic.)

    It can handle a lot of Android apps too, but not as well as an Android phone, obviously.

    However, no mobile phone is a replacement for a laptop or desktop computer for serious work. So most people will need at least two devices. For me, my BlackBerry and laptop are almost always with me when I'm working.

    As for a third device, I don't see the need, but I'd rather carry a third device (tablet) if I needed additional Android or iOS apps than give my workflow and typing experience on my BlackBerry.

    For me BB10 + laptop for now...maybe laptop only with VOIP soon, which I'd prefer to a phone only solution.

    Again, I'm not sure what kind of serious work could be done on a mobile phone alone. Smart phones are still exceptionally weak computers.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree but many say they use their BlackBerry for stuff and their other phone for apps. BB10 was supposed to eliminate that and it hasn't. Some of those who prefer a BlackBerry for stuff still see a need to carry another phone with them.

    The premise was with BB10 you'll no longer have to carry 2 phones or a phone and a tablet.

    Seems those that prefer other OSes don't feel a need to carry 2 phones, one for stuff and one for apps.
    10-13-15 02:55 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I agree but many say they use their BlackBerry for stuff and their other phone for apps. BB10 was supposed to eliminate that and it hasn't. Some of those who prefer a BlackBerry for stuff still see a need to carry another phone with them.

    The premise was with BB10 you'll no longer have to carry 2 phones or a phone and a tablet.

    Seems those that prefer other OSes don't feel a need to carry 2 phones, one for stuff and one for apps.
    I carry two phones, Z10 and Leap. Does that mean I should carry 4 phones for apps?

    Posted via CB10
    10-15-15 06:37 PM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    I carry two phones, Z10 and Leap. Does that mean I should carry 4 phones for apps?

    Posted via CB10
    If you want. Myself I'd prefer just one.
    10-15-15 07:15 PM
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