11-12-15 07:05 PM
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tools
  1. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You clearly missed my point, except if I restate it, it will look like an insult.
    Developers didn't leave BB10 due to lack of circle drawing, it was the lack of market share.

    I would argue they do have long term vision (BB10 was supposed to be a 10 year OS right? IOT push? QNX in car? BES for all platforms, etc), just hasn't worked out to be true and have to drop/change/adapt. You are not thinking objectively.

    Posted via CB10
    And what was the exact reason for a lack of market share? No apps? Playbook fiasco? Developers with little faith in BlackBerry?

    You cannot expect developers to start learning a new platform only to have it stagnate after 18+ months. That is what BlackBerry did with the Playbook and now BB10. BlackBerry now has a history of trying something, doesn't meet expectations and instead of making it better, they drop it. I will never support any future endeavors (QNX for car and IOT and they might just drop it if things get rough). BlackBerry doesn't have any stick to it. At least with Windows Phone, they keep trying to make something better. BlackBerry just gave up and got Android with other peoples security and wrote some apps. They are in trouble. We all know how well BBM has been in cross-platform.
    Killjoyhere likes this.
    10-11-15 04:32 PM
  2. BCITMike's Avatar
    And what was the exact reason for a lack of market share? No apps? Playbook fiasco? Developers with little faith in BlackBerry?

    You cannot expect developers to start learning a new platform only to have it stagnate after 18+ months. That is what BlackBerry did with the Playbook and now BB10. BlackBerry now has a history of trying something, doesn't meet expectations and instead of making it better, they drop it. I will never support any future endeavors (QNX for car and IOT and they might just drop it if things get rough). BlackBerry doesn't have any stick to it. At least with Windows Phone, they keep trying to make something better. BlackBerry just gave up and got Android with other peoples security and wrote some apps. They are in trouble. We all know how well BBM has been in cross-platform.
    You keep saying this yet won't leave. You're off topic and sound emotional **** hurt.
    Just leave and begin your development in swift or whatever.
    10-11-15 04:53 PM
  3. clickitykeys's Avatar
    I actually don't care how insulting that comes across, some of you guys need a genuine visceral slap of reality.
    Dude, it's a phone. I would reserve a "genuine visceral slap of reality" for far more important things. So, just chill, ok?

    Q10/10.3.2
    10-11-15 04:55 PM
  4. BCITMike's Avatar
    OK. If the code isn't complex, then post the code on how to draw a circle.
    Just have him do your app for you.

    Posted via CB10
    10-11-15 05:04 PM
  5. BCITMike's Avatar
    For goodness sake, the level of denial here is just ridiculous. THERE IS NO MORE BlackBerry 10. NO BlackBerry devices with BB10 are coming. A security update is coming in March, and BlackBerry is pulling out of the handset market unless they get to 5 million units per year. If they do, it will develop on Android, not BlackBerry 10 - Chen can't say it any plainer that BlackBerry 10 is now for certain market segments with fleets of BB10 they'll need to support, but even though from the CEO himself, the bleating that it, BlackBerry 10, can't be over on CrackBerry is nothing more than pitiful. I actually don't care how insulting that comes across, some of you guys need a genuine visceral slap of reality. In 12 months there may be no handsets whatsoever, and only a CEO that has to be 100% upfront with shareholders because a business segment of the company is in trouble would make that admission.

    Software as a service is BlackBerry's future - BlackBerry 10 has died.

    Posted via CB10
    If you actually posted a confirmed date when bb10 would be dead, you wouldn't have this opposition. Too many "if" and "may". This is a semantics argument. No one's bb10 phone has stopped working (bb10 is very much alive with a heartbeat). No sales of bb10 has stopped. No announcement of end of support. In fact, there's a planned release in 4 months and commitment to support governments.

    It's clear you don't know what "died" means. Dying != died.

    If you want to start a thread that bb10 is a dead end platform and on life support, go ahead. But twisting words is just a **** off and makes you a tool.



    Posted via CB10
    10-11-15 05:21 PM
  6. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You keep saying this yet won't leave. You're off topic and sound emotional **** hurt.
    Just leave and begin your development in swift or whatever.
    Already moved to other platforms a while ago. BlackBerry 10 even with it's limitations was the best development platform out there. It was the nicest to work in. It is just sad that Chen didn't want to continue with the BB10 platform and wants to kill it off.
    10-11-15 05:31 PM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Just have him do your app for you.

    Posted via CB10
    No. I hear it is simple so it should be simple to share the code to do it.
    10-11-15 05:33 PM
  8. BCITMike's Avatar
    No. I hear it is simple so it should be simple to share the code to do it.
    I wouldn't waste my time if I was Richard. If you truly cared/needed it, you wouldn't need the solution handed to you at this point.
    10-11-15 05:43 PM
  9. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    And who cares? Why the need to convince them?

    Posted via CB10
    Many people care, but I guess you are not one of them.

    This is a forum of discussion and the discussion would be very boring if everyone had the same point of view. Luckily in this case there are opposing opinions. I occasionally express my opinion that BB10 is dying, with the best arguments that I can muster and refute the arguments of others when I think it is warranted. I pride myself on arguing in good faith and seeing reason when it is shown to me.
    In a previous century I wasted a lot of time and effort on an operating system called OS/2. Its fascinating to see how people come to terms(or not) with the fate of BB10. Please note that I didn't say "dead" or "confirmed".

    Honestly what trajectory do you plot for BB10?
    10-11-15 09:02 PM
  10. lift's Avatar
    10-11-15 09:15 PM
  11. jhimmel's Avatar
    Many people care, but I guess you are not one of them.

    .
    In a previous century I wasted a lot of time and effort on an operating system called OS/2.

    Honestly what trajectory do you plot for BB10?
    Ah yes, OS/2, OS/2 Warp, eComStation. Been there, done that.

    You want my projected trajectory for BB10? Not that it matters, but my trajectory for BB10 is pretty much right in the footsteps of OS/2 - and for much of the same reason - lack of third party support. OS/2, (by the time of eComStation) had relegated itself to a very narrow and specific niche market. The parallel is almost profound.

    OS/2 was actually a great OS - with two basic problems. First was a synchronous queue that could jamb an otherwise robust system, and the second (and a killer), was lack of third party support. They even tried to support Windows apps as a stop gap measure (didn't work so well). What does that remind you of Re: BB10? :-|

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-11-15 09:20 PM
  12. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Ah yes, OS/2, OS/2 Warp, eComStation. Been there, done that.

    You want my projected trajectory for BB10? Not that it matters, but my trajectory for BB10 is pretty much right in the footsteps of OS/2 - and for much of the same reason - lack of third party support. OS/2, (by the time of eComStation) had relegated itself to a very narrow and specific niche market. The parallel is almost profound.

    OS/2 was actually a great OS - with two basic problems. First was a synchronous queue that could jamb an otherwise robust system, and the second (and a killer), was lack of third party support. They even tried to support Windows apps as a stop gap measure (didn't work so well). What does that remind you of Re: BB10? :-|

    Posted via CB10
    OS/2 warp had some nice ideas but my recollection was that it crashed randomly and frequently. I gave up at fixpack 19 iirc.
    10-11-15 09:52 PM
  13. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    OK. If the code isn't complex, then post the code on how to draw a circle.
    The line of code that draws the outter circle in HelloGPS is:

    Code:
    draw.painter().drawEllipse(cX - r, cY - r, d, d);
    clickitykeys and BCITMike like this.
    10-11-15 09:53 PM
  14. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    What does that remind you of Re: BB10? :-|

    Posted via CB10
    The thing that made aware of the playbook was hearing speculation that they would include the android runtime. My reaction was "Whut?".
    10-11-15 10:05 PM
  15. jhimmel's Avatar
    The line of code that draws the outter circle in HelloGPS is:
    Code:
    draw.painter().drawEllipse(cX - r, cY - r, d, d);
    My God that is complicated. No wonder the developers didn't come.

    Posted via CB10
    10-11-15 10:20 PM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I wouldn't waste my time if I was Richard. If you truly cared/needed it, you wouldn't need the solution handed to you at this point.
    But if it is so easy, no time is wasted.
    10-12-15 12:50 AM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The line of code that draws the outter circle in HelloGPS is:

    Code:
    draw.painter().drawEllipse(cX - r, cY - r, d, d);
    Would be nice if you were more honest. There is more to that to draw a circle in Cascades. You have to create a class that uses QImage to handle the circle. Then you have to link that class into Cascades so it can be called. The full code to get a simple circle is much more than what you are showing here. All that, just to get a circle. As I said, they didn't finish what they started.
    10-12-15 01:02 AM
  18. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    My God that is complicated. No wonder the developers didn't come.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually, he isn't telling or showing all the code that is required.

    It would be more like this and then a class wrapper and tying the class to Cascades.:

    Code:
    #ifndef DRAW_HPP
    #define DRAW_HPP
    
    class QImage;
    
    namespace Draw {
    
    QImage drawCircle(const QSize &size);
    
    }
    
    #endif
    Code:
    #include <QImage>
    #include <QPainter>
    
    #include "draw.h"
    
    QImage Draw::drawCircle(const QSize &size)
    {
        // Create an image of the appropriate size.
        // The underlying data is reference counted so is cleaned up as needed.
        QImage image(size, QImage::Format_RGB32);
        image.fill(Qt::black);
    
        // Pick an arbitrary size for the circle
        const int centerX = size.width() / 2;
        const int centerY = size.height() / 2;
        const int radius = std::min(centerX, centerY) * 2 / 3;
        const int diameter = radius * 2;
    
        // Draw the circle!
        QPainter painter(&image);
        painter.setPen(Qt::white);
        painter.drawEllipse(centerX-radius, centerY-radius, diameter, diameter);
    
        return image;
    }
    Shame you need all this code in a class just to make a circle.
    10-12-15 01:03 AM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For goodness sake, the level of denial here is just ridiculous. THERE IS NO MORE BlackBerry 10. NO BlackBerry devices with BB10 are coming. A security update is coming in March, and BlackBerry is pulling out of the handset market unless they get to 5 million units per year. If they do, it will develop on Android, not BlackBerry 10 - Chen can't say it any plainer that BlackBerry 10 is now for certain market segments with fleets of BB10 they'll need to support, but even though from the CEO himself, the bleating that it, BlackBerry 10, can't be over on CrackBerry is nothing more than pitiful. I actually don't care how insulting that comes across, some of you guys need a genuine visceral slap of reality. In 12 months there may be no handsets whatsoever, and only a CEO that has to be 100% upfront with shareholders because a business segment of the company is in trouble would make that admission.

    Software as a service is BlackBerry's future - BlackBerry 10 has died.

    Posted via CB10
    This is a semantic argument now. For some of us, so long as BB10 is maintained, it's not dead, and it will likely be maintained for several years. Current phones will continue to work and receive security patches and some bug fixes. These users aren't terribly worried about the lack of new handsets so long as the current ones work. These users also don't care whether or not the Android runtime is updated.

    For others, the lack of new phones or new features means that BB10 is dead.

    Different definitions of dead.

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-15 05:11 AM
  20. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Would be nice if you were more honest. There is more to that to draw a circle in Cascades. You have to create a class that uses QImage to handle the circle. Then you have to link that class into Cascades so it can be called. The full code to get a simple circle is much more than what you are showing here. All that, just to get a circle. As I said, they didn't finish what they started.
    Now I know what you mean by jumping through hoops. It is always easy to criticize with non-specific complaints, but difficult to respond to them without knowing the specifics.

    If may be a lot to draw a circle. But who really wants a application that draws a circle? Most applications do much more interesting and useful things that require a greater degree of complexity anyway.

    And it would be nice if you were more honest and researched why they built Cascades the way they did. As I said in a previous post, this application rotates the resulting drawing based on sensor inputs that can changes thousands of times per second. Sure, they could make it nice and simple like Scratch. But then a programmer who didn't want to jump through hoops would end up redrawing each time the sensor value changes. Not bad for a circle perhaps, but a real world example with one solid, two dashed circles, four dashed lines, and dozens of satellite markers would be a different matter. The time to rotate becomes longer as the drawing becomes more complex. The way Cascades does it rotation takes the same time regardless of how complex the drawing is. And because the drawing is converted to a format that is efficiently handled by the graphics co-processor that work is offloaded from the main CPU. The same goes for scaling and translation. So provided the programmer "jumps through all the other hoops" Cascades imposes the UI can run at 60 frames per second whether it is a simple circle or a complex data display. If this is jumping through hoops, then I would consider it my job as a programmer to jump through what ever hoops necessary to give my customers the experience they expect. If you have a BB10 device with a compass, compare the Google Maps card with the BlackBerry Maps card.

    But you may be on to something. Maybe the programmers who worked on StageFright thought checking their code for bugs was unnecessarily jumping through hoops. Maybe VW engineers thought that building cars that actually comply with emissions regulations was unnecessarily jumping through hoops when Bosch could just write three lines of code for them.

    Yes there is some programming required to comply with the requirements to take advantage of this. My implementation uses about 150 lines of code including comments, but adds some enhancements. I wrote this code years ago and have reused it in many applications. So I jumped through the hoops once, but got paid for it many times. Even so, HelloGPS is made up of 41,633 lines of code including libraries I ported over. So 150 is not such a horrendously difficult hoop to jump through, considering the benefits. For example those 150 lines of code allow me to generate images like the one I've attached, then rotate, scale and translate it at 60 FPS in response to user input.


    Confirmed End of BlackBerry 10 [Opinion]-save1.png

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2639
    app_Developer and mania626 like this.
    10-12-15 09:54 AM
  21. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    I agree that this argument is a matter of semantics, but BB10 is dead, dead, as that term is frequently used in reference to operating systems. For instance, Maemo and Meego, two of old Nokias OSes, are/were in a similar position--and I have both of those (with my Nokia N900 and N9) AND I have two BB10 devices.

    The truth is that I love interesting, new, or non-mainstream technology, but it does have a bad habit of dying on you. Im sure a tiny community of BlackBerry people will remain with the device, just as other small device communities like Meego and Maemo have done.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-12-15 11:48 AM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I agree that this argument is a matter of semantics, but BB10 is dead, dead, as that term is frequently used in reference to operating systems. For instance, Maemo and Meego, two of old Nokias OSes, are/were in a similar position--and I have both of those (with my Nokia N900 and N9) AND I have two BB10 devices.

    The truth is that I love interesting, new, or non-mainstream technology, but it does have a bad habit of dying on you. Im sure a tiny community of BlackBerry people will remain with the device, just as other small device communities like Meego and Maemo have done.
    Are Meego and Maemo still receiving manufacturer security updates and bug fixes for the next 1-3 years?

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-15 12:04 PM
  23. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    Are Meego and Maemo still receiving manufacturer security updates and bug fixes for the next 1-3 years?

    Posted via CB10
    Hahaha, who knows and who cares?? The whole point is that theyre dead OSes for nearly everyone except for a few diehards. The rest of smartphone users have all long since moved on to bigger and better things. And, yes, this is exactly the same dead-end road of ever-shrinking-relevance that BB10 is on.

    Once an OS is on this road to nowhere, most consider it dead, though some call it undead or zombie or something else. Maybe the company provides minimal software support for a year or so (like Nokia did and BlackBerry probably will), but its not enough to forget that youre running a dead OS. Why? Because everyone else is getting cool new apps, new hardware and new software features while you still have same, lame, left-behind, hand-me-down tech that you had two years ago!!!
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-12-15 12:52 PM
  24. S Valmont's Avatar
    Jolla. My next platform if BB10 is indeed done.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    10-12-15 01:09 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Hahaha, who knows and who cares?? The whole point is that theyre dead OSes for nearly everyone except for a few diehards. The rest of smartphone users have all long since moved on to bigger and better things. And, yes, this is exactly the same dead-end road of ever-shrinking-relevance that BB10 is on.

    Once an OS is on this road to nowhere, most consider it dead, though some call it undead or zombie or something else. Maybe the company provides minimal software support for a year or so (like Nokia did and BlackBerry probably will), but its not enough to forget that youre running a dead OS. Why? Because everyone else is getting cool new apps, new hardware and new software features while you still have same, lame, left-behind, hand-me-down tech that you had two years ago!!!
    So, for you, if it's not "cool" and "new" and what "everyone else" is using it's dead. My definition is somewhat different. If it functions as designed, meets all business requirements and is officially supported, it's not dead.

    Yours is the individual consumer perspective, which I understand, and which dominates the market currently. But my needs are different, so I will be happy to run BB10 on a new Passport for the next 2-3 years or until another Mobile OS is as good for my needs. As of now, Windows phones probably come the closest, but I'll wait and see. So long as I have current functionality I'm fine.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    10-12-15 03:56 PM
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