1. conite's Avatar
    i'm guessing you've never opened device monitor.

    Posted via CBX
    I suppose you are implying that I am no longer familiar with BB10, but I have a multitude of BB10 devices that I continue to use every day.

    There is no debate - specs are specs (from the Android Runtime developer blog):
    Last edited by conite; 08-10-17 at 01:18 PM.
    08-10-17 12:44 PM
  2. joeldf's Avatar
    I don't usually get into this particular argument since I'll abdicate my knowledge about the runtime and how android apps work within it, but I know what wingnut is asking about, and it's something I've wondered about as well.

    I've had android apps on my Z10 that I won't look at, much less open, for weeks - if not months. I have them, tried them, then found another source for whatever I got it for in the first place. Yet, I'll leave them installed just in case.

    But, at some point, I'll open the Device Monitor app to check out something else or clear a cache, and I'll find that a few of the android apps I have will show wi-fi and mobile data usage, and cpu and memory usage all throughout the time of no use by me. The NPR app was notorious for having a lot of apparent activity even if I hadn't opened it in several weeks.

    If the app is not supposed to run when it's not open, how is the Device Monitor registering all this activity?

    And I'd turn off all things that could be turned off in permissions - including turning off notifications - just in case.

    Now, not all of my android apps would register activity, mind you. But a few select apps would.

    So, that's why it begs the question. Honestly, regardless of what the developer site says, the BB10 OS itself seems to be saying something else.
    08-10-17 03:39 PM
  3. Cobalt232's Avatar
    The only way to run a permanent background tasks on Android is to use a service:
    https://developer.android.com/guide/.../services.html

    BlackBerry OS10 doesn't allow services to run if the app was closed. It's clearly stated in the developer docs. All services are stopped when the app is closed.
    08-10-17 03:48 PM
  4. markmall's Avatar
    The only way to run a permanent background tasks on Android is to use a service:
    https://developer.android.com/guide/.../services.html

    BlackBerry OS10 doesn't allow services to run if the app was closed. It's clearly stated in the developer docs. All services are stopped when the app is closed.
    I am able to run Vector Watch app in the background on my passport. Is this because there is a companion BB10 app that Services the android app? It's called Bridge. There is a blackberry piece and android piece.

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-17 05:16 PM
  5. joeldf's Avatar
    So what is the Device Monitor picking up then? No one has answered that specific question.

    This is more out of curiosity for me now since my Z10 is now in the hands of my 8-year-old... using it as a micro-tablet. I'm now on an S8.
    08-10-17 05:20 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    I am able to run Vector Watch app in the background on my passport. Is this because there is a companion BB10 app that Services the android app? It's called Bridge. There is a blackberry piece and android piece.

    Posted via CB10
    What app behaviour makes you believe it's running in the background?
    08-10-17 05:21 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    What app behaviour makes you believe it's running in the background?
    The app is closed on my phone but it still operates to push messages to my watch.

    Posted via CB10
    08-10-17 05:24 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    The app is closed on my phone but it still operates to push messages to my watch.

    Posted via CB10
    The Android Runtime itself handles all notifications.
    08-10-17 05:25 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    So what is the Device Monitor picking up then? No one has answered that specific question.

    This is more out of curiosity for me now since my Z10 is now in the hands of my 8-year-old... using it as a micro-tablet. I'm now on an S8.
    The Android Runtime is a funny thing. In order to keep the Android environment functioning and current, it tends to cycle through installed apps occasionally (in addition to at boot time).
    08-10-17 05:28 PM
  10. Invictus0's Avatar
    The only way to run a permanent background tasks on Android is to use a service:
    https://developer.android.com/guide/.../services.html

    BlackBerry OS10 doesn't allow services to run if the app was closed. It's clearly stated in the developer docs. All services are stopped when the app is closed.
    Some Android services can run on BB10, it's documented by BlackBerry runtime developers in their support forums. The threads aren't as easy to find since BlackBerry migrated their forums but the posts are still there.

    https://community.blackberry.com/message/56560

    The Android Runtime is a funny thing. In order to keep the Android environment functioning and current, it tends to cycle through installed apps occasionally (in addition to at boot time).
    But Android apps like WhatsApp, Messenger, Telegram, etc are able to receive instant notifications when the active frame is closed and the screen is off. The runtime probably isn't cycling through the apps enough to make that happen (it would burn through your battery in no time)?
    08-10-17 05:45 PM
  11. conite's Avatar


    But Android apps like WhatsApp, Messenger, Telegram, etc are able to receive instant notifications when the active frame is closed and the screen is off. The runtime probably isn't cycling through the apps enough to make that happen (it would burn through your battery in no time)?
    That's different. As I indicated above, the Android Runtime itself handles notifications. When selected from the HUB, the app is then opened.
    08-10-17 06:32 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Some Android services can run on BB10, it's documented by BlackBerry runtime developers in their support forums. The threads aren't as easy to find since BlackBerry migrated their forums but the posts are still there.
    You're misreading the post you linked to.

    This refers to when the screen is off, but the app IS STILL running (not closed).

    The BlackBerry developer specifically refers to the dev blog:


    "Referencing our Unsupported Software Features for Android on BlackBerry 10, you can see that background services are not fully supported. This should answer your first two questions."
    08-10-17 06:43 PM
  13. Invictus0's Avatar
    That's different. As I indicated above, the Android Runtime itself handles notifications. When selected from the HUB, the app is then opened.
    The only way the runtime can handle this is if the app has an active service that is listening for notifications (as non BB World apps aren't using BlackBerry's push services). A way to test this is to close an Android app that's receiving notifications via Device monitor or an app like Greenify, any notifications will stop after that.

    It's similar to how headless apps work, you're only receiving notifications and updates if the app has an active background process. If the user or the OS close it (due to low memory for example) the notifications will stop.

    You're misreading the post you linked to.

    This refers to when the screen is off, but the app IS STILL running (not closed).

    The BlackBerry developer specifically refers to the dev blog:


    "Referencing our Unsupported Software Features for Android on BlackBerry 10, you can see that background services are not fully supported. This should answer your first two questions."
    That's the wrong post (also note that they use the word "fully"), it's the one marked "Correct Answer" which refers to active frames and Services, specifically these answers,

    - Will my service keep running if more than 8 Apps have been started after mine? (And the user did not hit the close button)

    (There are many thing that factor whether your Services gets to run or not, which is not limited to but includes # of apps already running and memory state of the device).

    - Would the 'headless' mode in 10.2 help me? (I can currently only test with 10.1, because my carrier has not unlocked 10.2, yet)

    (No, this is a native thing. Your app is already technically headless)
    08-10-17 07:27 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    The only way the runtime can handle this is if the app has an active service that is listening for notifications (as non BB World apps aren't using BlackBerry's push services). A way to test this is to close an Android app that's receiving notifications via Device monitor or an app like Greenify, any notifications will stop after that.

    It's similar to how headless apps work, you're only receiving notifications and updates if the app has an active background process. If the user or the OS close it (due to low memory for example) the notifications will stop.



    That's the wrong post (also note that they use the word "fully"), it's the one marked "Correct Answer", specifically these answers,
    Again, your quote is not saying anything about running when closed. It refers to an app being inadvertently dropped from the top 8 open app LIST.

    Also, the Runtime itself absolutely handles the notifications. When you install an Android app, the Android environment sets up the whole thing.
    08-10-17 07:34 PM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    Again, your quote is not saying anything about running when closed. It refers to an app being inadvertently dropped from the top 8 open app LIST.
    The answer isn't specific to the app list which is what I'm pointing out. Here's another post by the same developer that's more clear on the issue, note that they're responding to someone who is quoting the docs.

    https://community.blackberry.com/thread/16697

    I'm not saying it's as good or as reliable as a headless app or comparable to an actual Android device, but services can start on BB10 (and you've even alluded to this as well in your previous post) so users should definitely keep that in mind, especially if they're experiencing battery drain or slowdown.

    Also, the Runtime itself absolutely handles the notifications. When you install an Android app, the Android environment sets up the whole thing.
    The runtime definitely handles it at an OS/user level but the only way it can receive these notifications is via a service that is able to communicate with the app's server. Also, in a push notification the OS will only receive data (usually in a JSON format), how can it parse it to show in the hub without help from the app (especially if it's encrypted data)?
    08-10-17 09:37 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    The answer isn't specific to the app list which is what I'm pointing out. Here's another post by the same developer that's more clear on the issue, note that they're responding to someone who is quoting the docs.

    https://community.blackberry.com/thread/16697



    The runtime definitely handles it at an OS/user level but the only way it can receive these notifications is via a service that is able to communicate with the app's server. Also, in a push notification the OS will only receive data (usually in a JSON format), how can it parse it to show in the hub without help from the app (especially if it's encrypted data)?
    "That said, Android Player can and will termininate them in scenarios you might not see them terminated on stock Android (i.e. if you close your app's shell window)."
    08-10-17 09:41 PM
  17. Invictus0's Avatar
    "That said, Android Player can and will termininate them in scenarios you might not see them terminated on stock Android (i.e. if you close your app's shell window)."
    Again, he's responding to someone that quoted the docs. We can't have it both ways where the runtime can occasionally wake up an app service or receive data and not run at all when closed.
    08-10-17 09:53 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Again, he's responding to someone that quoted the docs. We can't have it both ways where the runtime can occasionally wake up an app service or receive data and not run at all when closed.
    I see nothing here that has contradicted the official Android Runtime spec - "background services are not supported on BB10".
    08-10-17 10:09 PM
  19. ishashakti's Avatar
    Hi, with the patcher I was able to install Hay day on my z10. Thanks to Cobalt!!!
    08-10-17 10:26 PM
  20. Cobalt232's Avatar
    I am able to run Vector Watch app in the background on my passport. Is this because there is a companion BB10 app that Services the android app? It's called Bridge. There is a blackberry piece and android piece.

    Posted via CB10
    That's correct. The companion app seems to have headless capabilities.
    08-11-17 01:25 AM
  21. Wolfgan's Avatar
    You have to use not the latest version of Keep. I'm using 3.2.505 with no problems.
    Thx @Caluz78. Do you mind to share your patched version?

    Posted via CB10

    Edit: never mind. Downloaded last revisions for 3.3 and 3.2 Keep branches and tested them after patching. You're right, v3.2.505 is the latest one not crashing.
    Last edited by Wolfgan; 08-11-17 at 11:37 AM. Reason: new info
    08-11-17 05:11 AM
  22. wingnut666's Avatar
    anyone who watches device monitor regularly and tries to kill off annoying android apps knows that some die and stay dead, some respawn occasionally and some continually! the chart reveals battery, memory, cpu, and mobile data use by these apps. all this while no android apps (or any apps at all!) are in the foreground, and the screen is locked. theres no need to tell us it isnt true...it right in front of our eyes. also: notifications.

    Posted via CBX
    Last edited by wingnut666; 08-11-17 at 10:38 AM.
    08-11-17 09:43 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    anyone who watches device monitor regularly and tries to kill off annoying android apps knows that some die and stay dead, some respawn occasionally and some continually! the chart reveals battery, memory, cpu, and mobile data use by these apps. all this while no android apps (or any apps at all!) are in the foreground, and the screen is locked. theres no need to tell us it isnt true...it right in front of out eyes. also: notifications.

    Posted via CBX
    It's a hard spec, so you'll have to leave room for another explanation.
    08-11-17 09:49 AM
  24. danny036's Avatar
    Lots of killer info, and thank you to Cobalt for doing this!!

    I have, so far, mostly everything working. Although I cannot get youtube to work! I've downloaded the patched version listed in the first post, and have it whitelisted as well. But when opening I get the "Get Google Play services" error. "Youtube wont run without google play services, which your device doesnt have" Google Play music works! The play store works! Anybody know what gives?
    08-11-17 11:01 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Lots of killer info, and thank you to Cobalt for doing this!!

    I have, so far, mostly everything working. Although I cannot get youtube to work! I've downloaded the patched version listed in the first post, and have it whitelisted as well. But when opening I get the "Get Google Play services" error. "Youtube wont run without google play services, which your device doesnt have" Google Play music works! The play store works! Anybody know what gives?
    Try patching yourself on your PC.

    In the meantime, here's YouTube:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbc7i9bvko...tched.apk?dl=0
    08-11-17 11:12 AM
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