09-28-15 08:50 AM
77 1234
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  1. int19's Avatar
    I wouldn't say the Passport is obsolete or outdated, would you? It's srill a good product for the price.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    In Australia, the Passport is around $850.00 - about $100 less than a 32GB iPhone 6. Spec wise, they're quite similar - but I suspect the iphone will receive much more support and enjoy greater longevity than the Passport.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-15 10:53 PM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    In Australia, the Passport is around $850.00 - about $100 less than a 32GB iPhone 6. Spec wise, they're quite similar - but I suspect the iphone will receive much more support and enjoy greater longevity than the Passport.
    Yes, and the iPhone has a stronger ecosystem as well. The Passport, on the other hand, has a very nice screen for reading and a very nice keyboard.

    And it is still cheaper in your country.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    southlander likes this.
    09-26-15 11:35 PM
  3. Kryngle's Avatar
    I think the Priv is just a pilot project. A test run. See what consumers prefer., BB10 or Android. Leave it up to the masses to decide what OS we would rather BlackBerry support. It would suck for BlackBerry to sink that low to stay alive. Throwing in the towel, bowing to the Android robot kissing it's feet and calling it "Master".
    Your 14 days Mr Chen. Too Weak. Stand up and fight back.

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-15 12:42 AM
  4. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    BB10 will continue to exist because without it, BlackBerry would be a patent troll as they license their smartphone patents. John Chen has repeatedly said he doesn't want to do this.
    Why would anyone believe Chen for an instant when he repeatedly takes actions completely opposite of what he says!

    Posted via CB10
    BallRockReaper likes this.
    09-27-15 12:46 AM
  5. int19's Avatar
    Yes, and the iPhone has a stronger ecosystem as well. The Passport, on the other hand, has a very nice screen for reading and a very nice keyboard.

    And it is still cheaper in your country.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    Whilst it is cheaper, it only lasted two months before the screen started lifting, which they refused to fix under warranty. There's no BlackBerry presence in Australia, so I haven't been able to get it fixed. $850 down the tube and back to my q10.

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-15 01:19 AM
  6. will308's Avatar
    They are trying. With an OS that has access to apps and peripherals support. If they can reverse the trend and actually sell MORE phones for once, then maybe things will change.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    the way I see it is that the android slider has been made in the hope of selling big big numbers and this way it helps blackberry move handsets make lots more money,i think then they will make new bb10 handsets along with new android handsets and this way they will keep Most users happy(cos you cant keep everybody happy).........just my thinking who knows at this point
    09-27-15 01:41 AM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    If anyone can afford to develop and maintain their own smartphone platform it certainly isn't BlackBerry. He even said in the Priv demo that if he could bring BB10 features to an Android handset it would be ideal so he's clearly wanting to go in that direction. He keeps saying that he needs the apps and seems to realize that BB10 will never have them.
    southlander likes this.
    09-27-15 02:05 AM
  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I think the Priv is just a pilot project. A test run. See what consumers prefer., BB10 or Android.
    09-27-15 03:29 AM
  9. Hulk123's Avatar
    I think development of bb10 will be holded to make money with android and then they have money to make a big comeback with bb10

    Posted via BlackBerry Classic
    09-27-15 09:05 AM
  10. playfoot's Avatar
    Obviously, I have neither crystal ball nor insight as to what is Chen's strategy. However, I only offer the following thoughts and observations.

    1. Chen's first phone under his watch, as others I assume were in development before his arrival, is a Blandroid . . . Not a stellar endorsement as a defender of BB10.

    2. Essentially no marketing of BB10.

    3. ONE new phone, developed before his arrival, the Passport. The PPSE is just a change of clothes. No update of the Z's or the Q's. The Leap I would not consider a "leap forward" from the Z's.

    4. And without proper PR and marketing, it appears the Blandroid strategy is . . . Jury still out. However, in a world where perceptions form much of reality, the message is BB endorses Android. BB by taking on a second non-proprietary OS believes it to be equal or better than BB10. Hence, if indeed the world already sees Android as better, if it is only for Apps, then BB10 must NOT be very good. After all, if the champion of security sees Android as safe, why is there any need for BB10?

    Point 4 can lead on to other concerns, such as if BB has both the stomach and the resources to match marketing dollars with Samsung and others. Can BB stay in the "spec race"? This could be somewhat analogous to Reagan outspending the USSR and bringing down the Wall - only BB is not Reagan and the US in this scenario . . .

    In closing, nope. Not seeing a lot of commitment. But to be fair, not a lot has been communicated from up on high in BB.
    09-27-15 10:56 AM
  11. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    The idea of using some of the Passport internals across a line of devices would cut the cost of some components, but mainly just the processors. The various form factors would dictate that the boards, displays, and even keyboards would have to be spec built for each device even the Priv as the keyboard is not the same scale as the Passport.
    If designed wisely, one PCB could fit multiple models. The PCB does not need to be the same width or height as the housing. The Passport is as tall as the Z10, so a tall PCB designed to fit in the Z10's successor could fit in the Passport, too - just leave some free space in it. But that's just an option. Even without it, it would still make things cheaper, even just due to - as you wrote yourself - buying bigger amounts of just one chipset instead of small amounts of two or three. There are several different PCBs manufactured now, so even if they remained different it wouldn't change anything.

    Keyboards, displays? Of course they need to be different, but they're just peripherals, connected to the PCB with ribbon tapes, PAST the PCB production process. And they are different already now on all the existing models, so I can't see how it would change the current cost if they remained different.

    To sum up, as you wrote yourself, even if the PCBs were different, at least the cost cost of buying just one chipset would be cheaper. So YES, the total cost would be cheaper (maybe slightly but still), and definitely NOT HIGHER.

    Look...I get your point. You are upset that Blackberry did not invest enough and build a full touch device that you feel competes with the current market selections. I agree with you in some respects.
    More precisely, I was trying to show that the investment needed to create such a new full touch device (to replace the existing ones which just don't sell) would be NEGLIGIBLE, while at the same time it would allow to (more or less) REDUCE the manufacturing cost (and surely NOT increase it):

    - no need to develop any drivers for hardware already supported on the Passport
    - no need to even just design a housing if the Priv's design is so acclaimed - why not release a sister design with BB10 (let's say with some minor tweaks to distinguish them)
    - the cost of buying chipsets lower if you only buy one chipset instead of two or three
    - (optionally) if someone bothered to invest in redesigning the PCB layout to be universal (fit multiple models) then it would result in further production cost reduction
    - the OS development cost (and workload) lower if hardware is the same accross the entire platform

    And in exchange for all the above (clearly at no development cost and not higher production cost than now), some 3-fold performance increase and decent camera in the full touch form factor, making it again a mid-range product that certainly much more people would be willing to buy as its performance would guarantee a further couple of years of decent use, as opposed to the dated Krait which is on the far low-end side even today, let alone in a year or two, so no wonder no one wants to buy it and get stuck with it.

    My Nexus 4 is a 2012 device, and it has a quad-core 1.5 GHz CPU. So the Leap is actually a 2010 technology. No one will buy it in 2016.

    Tell me if I'm an executive at Foxconn why I should go along with this plan. You want me to tool up a line and build inventories for two new models
    No, I don't want you to build inventories for TWO NEW MODELS. I want you to REPLACE the models which CLEARLY don't sell (due to their 2010 hardware specs) with (as for today's standards quite a mid-range) models which would sell. And these REPLACEMENT models would share hardware with another still manufactured model (as opposed to models to be replaced, having a DIFFERENT hardware), making the whole business more or less CHEAPER, but certainly not costlier.

    Being a Foxconn manager you'd surely understand that there can't be anything costlier than to further manufacture the existing devices which DON'T SELL.

    I wouldn't say the Passport is obsolete or outdated, would you? It's srill a good product for the price.
    Who's talking about replacing the Passport? No one, and surely not I. On the contrary, we're talking about upgrading the REMAINING models with Passport's (still strong and up-to-date) hardware. As I wrote many times, full touch is world's most popular form-factor, I guess that some 95% smartphones are full touch (so that's CLEARLY what everyone prefers), while Passport's design is specific, not to many people's liking. I mean, many people love Passport's specs, but not its form-factor. So offering the same specs in (world's most popular) full touch form factor (at hardly any development cost and even some possible production cost reductions, as indicated above) would certainly improve sales - not only make a lot of aged Z10 and Z30 users upgrade but also attract new customers (of which the dated Leap - as can be clearly seen from the fiscal results - just isn't capable).

    If you think that still offering the NOT SELLING Leap is better than replacing it with a 3-fold faster model with Passport's CPU and its decent camera that WOULD SELL (and all that at hardly any cost) - regardless of whether they want to go on with BB10 or not, even just to make some $$$ in the upcoming quarters and at the same time give something to failthful BB10 users whom they promised heaven and so miserably failed to deliver - then I guess that any further discussion is pointless.

    ----

    Anyway, the actual problem is that Chen seems to be BlackBerry's Elop. I'm afraid that he came to BlackBerry with a mission to convert it to Android (as since he came there's been absolutely no BB10 promotion, OS development seriously slowed down, no new BB10 phones were introduced except what was already in the works, etc.), and nothing will stop him, just like nothing could stop Elop. Keep your fingers crossed so that it doesn't end up the same way.
    BallRockReaper likes this.
    09-27-15 10:59 AM
  12. Alexandre Faustino's Avatar
    What confuses me it's the amount of resources, people and money invested in Classic and Passport and now this.
    09-27-15 11:01 AM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar


    No, I don't want you to build inventories for TWO NEW MODELS. I want you to REPLACE the models which CLEARLY don't sell (due to their 2010 hardware specs) with (as for today's standards quite a mid-range) models which would sell. And these REPLACEMENT models would share hardware with another still manufactured model (as opposed to models to be replaced, having a DIFFERENT hardware), making the whole business more or less CHEAPER, but certainly not costlier.

    Being a Foxconn manager you'd surely understand that there can't be anything costlier than to further manufacture the existing devices which DON'T SELL.
    who said the old models were still in production? I doubt that. Did the current manufacturing partners even make the Q10 ever? I thought that was their old partner.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    09-27-15 12:27 PM
  14. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I think the Priv is just a pilot project. A test run. See what consumers prefer., BB10 or Android.

    Posted via CB10
    I think the Priv is a replacement of the BB10 Android runtime, which never really scored in the market.



    Posted via CB10
    09-27-15 12:44 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    After reading more of Chen, I think we can summarize this like this:

    If Priv is a success, then BB10 is dead.

    Else (if Priv is not a success) BB exits the device business all together.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    RyanGermann and southlander like this.
    09-27-15 12:49 PM
  16. bigbadben10's Avatar
    That sums it up very well. Sad but true. Then BlackBerry can focus fully on software/services and IoT devices.

    Posted by my fabulous red Passport
    09-27-15 01:05 PM
  17. HereticHermit's Avatar
    .......
    - no need to even just design a housing if the Priv's design is so acclaimed - why not release a sister design with BB10 (let's say with some minor tweaks to distinguish them)
    ......
    in form
    Given that Blackberry is presently grovelling at the feet of a green robot who is controlled via evil google, I doubt google will allow Blackberry to release BB10 in same shell.
    Blackberry can be ticked off the negotiation table like a minion in no time, if they even tried.
    09-27-15 01:41 PM
  18. mulderlr's Avatar
    10.3.2 -> 10.3.3 can hardly be considered a "major update". I'd even hesitate to call it a minor one. And even just for that, Chen wants us to wait HALF A YEAR.

    If you believe that a version numbering change from 10.3.2 to 10.3.3 (least significant digit) will bring any groundshaking changes then simply remind yourself what kind of changes the 10.3.1 to 10.3.2 update brought you, and expect JUST the same progress, in 6 months from now. During the same period of time, Android will shift to 6 from 5, so quickly after having just shifted from 4.x to 5. That's a true progress, while what Chen does is running in circles.



    The Passport has better specs than all the remaining BB10 devices, that's for sure. But already now its hardware slowly gets dated, compared even just to this "Priv" which is at least SEVERAL TIMES more powerful. So it will be even more dated in Q1/Q2 2016 when the 10.3.3 update comes out. And all the Z10's and Z30's will be ANTIQUES by then, yet still without ANY upgrade options...


    Yes, that's true. But only EXISTING users know and understand it. For any potential new users, such dated specs is often a deal breaker. They won't care about anyone's explanations that the OS is so efficient that it runs fine on such a hardware, they simply won't get it without even bothering to check it. Even just that old and poor 8 MPix camera (worse than 2010's Nokia N8) of nearly all BB10 phones (compared to e.g. the Slider's 18 MPix one with OIS and decent lenses) is a deal breaker for a lot of people, let alone everything else.



    I'd say this is a POOR EXCUSE of him. Even if it was really too costly to develop QNX drivers for the Slider hardware, what prevents him from releasing Q and Z series devices with the Passport's CPU and its 13 MPix camera? He does have drivers (and everything else) for that. So why not just put it into some Z50 or Q50 and make a few million Zxx and Qxx owners finally rush to stores and shell out their money for such an upgrade?

    Apple is rich because they make all their users upgrade YEARLY. BlackBerry is poor because they've been stubbornly refusing to give their Z10 and Z30 users ANY upgrade possibilities ever since 2013. It is seriously sick that I bought my Z10 in Q1 2013 and there's absolutely nothing replacing it not only now in late 2015, but probably also by H2 2016, if ever. And then Chen whines about poor BB10 sales, and blames everything BUT his own stupid decisions for that.

    Dear Mr. Chen, give our trusty Z10's and Z30's a successor (a true one, not like the Leap with merely a different housing) and millions of us will buy it before you finish announcing it.
    Don't forget BlackBerry burned almost all us carrier bridges in the US as well, so without carrier subsidized devices most people would never pay a premium or she'll out money up front for a device. Most people also don't want to have to switch carriers to upgrade their device and this is another HUGE problem! You can't ignore the largest carrier in the US if you even want to remotely consider selling a significant number of handsets!

    Typed from my AT&T passport
    09-27-15 02:36 PM
  19. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    in form
    Given that Blackberry is presently grovelling at the feet of a green robot who is controlled via evil google, I doubt google will allow Blackberry to release BB10 in same shell.
    So release it in a Z30 shell of different colors, if you don't want to spend money on designing a new one. There are infinite possibilties, the only missing thing is intentions.

    You can't ignore the largest carrier in the US if you even want to remotely consider selling a significant number of handsets
    Thankfully, the world is not just the US.

    For example, Jolla is talking with the Russians and there are some chances that their OS might be chosen as Russia's mobile OS for their govt and agencies (as they're afraid of being spied through Android and iOS). If it happens, it might open the whole Russian market for Sailfish OS (150 million people or so). It would be really amusing if the tiny Jolla did it and BB10 died.

    Out of curiosity, did you guys realize all that cr*p BlackBerry put themselves into, only after Chen has spoken two days ago?
    Jake2826 likes this.
    09-27-15 05:10 PM
  20. Benjamin Black's Avatar
    So release it in a Z30 shell of different colors, if you don't want to spend money on designing a new one. There are infinite possibilties, the only missing thing is intentions.


    Thankfully, the world is not just the US.

    For example, Jolla is talking with the Russians and there are some chances that their OS might be chosen as Russia's mobile OS for their govt and agencies (as they're afraid of being spied through Android and iOS). If it happens, it might open the whole Russian market for Sailfish OS (150 million people or so). It would be really amusing if the tiny Jolla did it and BB10 died.

    Out of curiosity, did you guys realize all that cr*p BlackBerry put themselves into, only after Chen has spoken two days ago?
    Jolla's size doesn't make them any less awesome. Jolla's Sailfish OS would be my first choice for an OS if we could get one with a North American GSM LTE radio.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    09-27-15 11:28 PM
  21. blackbberryz30's Avatar
    Hi guys, this is my 1st post in crackberry, and all I am writing is out of anger and fraustation which is inside me since the news of Priv being officially confirmed.. I am using BlackBerry since 5 years started with Torch, z10, z30, classic (for 3months) and now Passport which I recently got like 2months,

    Now WHEN I heard the interview of chen before classic and passport, I really thought he would bring change in BlackBerry, liked his strategy, but now I seriously feel like blasting, I won't go into depth of Android being next OS for BlackBerry as many would like the plan and many won't, but does really going to Android wll save the handset business or bring boom into sales.. I don't think so... n quite frankly now I don't care, I wish Priv to be a complete failure and they shut handset business.!!

    John Chen congrts on putting one of the best productive OS in the grave and please stop saying productive n security word in ur interview n stop cheating your customers as they too earn money wroking hard, if Android was to be ur next OS why Passport SE was introduced, to fool customers and say like ' buy these passport u fools, soon Android wll be our next OS and bb10 done ' ...

    I wish Priv to be complete Failure and they shut handset business ..

    Posted via CB10
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    09-27-15 11:51 PM
  22. early2bed's Avatar
    What confuses me it's the amount of resources, people and money invested in Classic and Passport and now this.
    A basic principle of business strategy is that you don't consider your sunk costs when making a decision about the future. If, somehow, using BB10 somehow saves you time and money then its something to consider. These savings are probably dwarfed by how much he would have to spend to maintain it as a competitive OS.
    southlander likes this.
    09-28-15 12:03 AM
  23. HereticHermit's Avatar
    Blackberry is in habit of squandering opportunities regularly. As a company I hold no grudge against them for trying to make money out of android. Leap and Classic were good pointers where things were heading.If chen feels giving old specs is al right, it runs in company genes. They have been doing it ever since Storm 9810 days. Even two days ago he just downplayed releasing any new and/or high spec device on BB10. writing is clear on the wall.
    I am here only for BB10 which, for small mercies, runs smoothly even on old specs. That alone goes on to show how efficient BBB10 is. It is a pity they just failed for capitalise on a great great os.
    Blackberry kept failing consistently because they obstinately refused to believe 'customer buys, what sells in the market'. Amongst other factors, it the faith of Blackberry in non-action that brought them, and us, to where we are today- on the Ledge.
    09-28-15 01:50 AM
  24. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Guys, "secure Android" is a MYTH. There is no such thing, and there won't be. Its whole history have been security holes and vulnerabilities and it won't change anytime soon.
    How does Chen intend to "secure" it? Even he spends a year securing Android 5.1.1, what will he do when Android 6 comes out next month. And then Android 6.1 and then 6.2, and then 7 and so on. Will he grab each such release and spend a year "securing" it, and everyone will be patiently waiting for the update while every one else will be using it on his Samsung Galaxy, Nexus, etc.?

    Besides, Android is not just the OS, but a lot of Google apps on top of it. Contacts, Documents, etc. Updated by Google every now and then, often introducing new security holes. Will Chen prevent updates of such apps before he inspects and "secures" them? Or what else will he do if an update of say Contacts app comes out via Google Play and it has a huuuuge security hole?

    And if Chen fails to "secure" a couple of such security holes, the whole reputation of his "secure Android" will just evaporate.
    blackbberryz30 likes this.
    09-28-15 02:57 AM
  25. khampasong's Avatar
    Guys, "secure Android" is a MYTH. There is no such thing, and there won't be. Its whole history have been security holes and vulnerabilities and it won't change anytime soon.
    How does Chen intend to "secure" it? Even he spends a year securing Android 5.1.1, what will he do when Android 6 comes out next month. And then Android 6.1 and then 6.2, and then 7 and so on. Will he grab each such release and spend a year "securing" it, and everyone will be patiently waiting for the update while every one else will be using it on his Samsung Galaxy, Nexus, etc.?

    Besides, Android is not just the OS, but a lot of Google apps on top of it. Contacts, Documents, etc. Updated by Google every now and then, often introducing new security holes. Will Chen prevent updates of such apps before he inspects and "secures" them? Or what else will he do if an update of say Contacts app comes out via Google Play and it has a huuuuge security hole?

    And if Chen fails to "secure" a couple of such security holes, the whole reputation of his "secure Android" will just evaporate.
    Agree totally, though still think going Android is still their best course of action.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-15 04:35 AM
77 1234

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