03-29-15 05:46 PM
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  1. vbdwork's Avatar
    Microsoft can keep WP alive forever, no matter what the market share is. It's not their main business, it's a Microsoft presence on mobile market. BlackBerry is already dead - none of BB10 devices is successful, nonexistent ecosystem and the latest OS update is a complete mess of copied styles and looks from other OS. The last nail in the coffin is Google Inbox, coming soon.
    02-28-15 06:55 PM
  2. diegonei's Avatar
    In my opinion Blackberry's lack of apps kills the business! I know android apps run smoothly with 10.3.1 but native apps would be better. I think they should pursue developers to create a larger app base for BlackBerry to market upon. The right stuff and the right kind of marketing can bring BlackBerry back!
    Breaking news: They did that. Some devs joined, some ported android apps over, but in the end, the bread winners, NetFlix, Instagram, Microsoft, all the big names didn't bother.

    Microsoft can keep WP alive forever, no matter what the market share is. It's not their main business, it's a Microsoft presence on mobile market. BlackBerry is already dead - none of BB10 devices is successful, nonexistent ecosystem and the latest OS update is a complete mess of copied styles and looks from other OS. The last nail in the coffin is Google Inbox, coming soon.
    And here I thought we would finally have a good thread without some ***** going BlackBerry is dead.
    Laura Knotek and anon1727506 like this.
    02-28-15 07:00 PM
  3. vbdwork's Avatar
    And here I thought we would finally have a good thread without some ***** going BlackBerry is dead.
    OK, temporary on life support from Android ecosystem. Do you think Chen is going to invest more money in a losing hardware development? It's not what we want, it's what has to be done to save the company.

    And thanks for calling other CB members *****, whatever it is.
    02-28-15 07:18 PM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    What brings you back to the BlackBerry side of Mobile Nations? Considering getting back on the train, maybe? :P
    Not at this point. I'm only interested in touchscreen devices at this point, and there isn't anything recent from BlackBerry that is touchscreen--the Z30 was only for Verizon, and I have AT&T.

    Well, less important is relative. Devs are more open to coding native apps to Windows Phone than they are to BlackBerry. Having a half functional BBWorld and a half functional Amazon Appstore doesn't really works.
    I'm not sure that really is the case. Windows Phone doesn't have any Google apps and doesn't have Snapchat. I don't need those, but their lack is a major issue for some people.

    BlackBerry was never any good on the low-end field. The Curve 8300/10/20 was a bomb (in the good way), but when Android started provinding for other companies to push (crappy, yet reallycheap) devices, they started losing ground fast. Recent attempts at low/mid range (Z3, Q5) were still considered overpriced by most people. It seems to me they want everyone to see the value of their devices and pay the appropriate price - which would even work if they had proper marketing behind the devices.

    Oh well. I don't have much to say about WP. I like the bleak, plain, flat designs. It seems to be very hardware friendly and the top end Lumias have great cameras (or had before WP8.1).

    Still, I'm glad I didn't have to go that way two years ago! I still think a four player battle is better for the consumer, so yeah.

    Attachment 337775
    The whole low-end thing is somewhat problematic for some Windows Phone users. I'm still waiting for a new high-end device, since all the new devices seem to be low-end at this time.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    02-28-15 07:24 PM
  5. thurask's Avatar
    And here I thought we would finally have a good thread without some ***** going BlackBerry is dead.
    For an Ambassador, you must be pretty new to CrackBerry...

    Posted via CB10
    diegonei likes this.
    02-28-15 07:26 PM
  6. diegonei's Avatar
    OK, temporary on life support from Android ecosystem. Do you think Chen is going to invest more money in a loosing hardware development? It's not what we want, it's what has to be done to save the company.

    And thanks for calling other CB members *****, whatever it is.
    It wasn't something I expected to go ****ed, or I'd not have written it. But feel free to exercise your right to report me. You voiced your opinion, I voiced mine.

    Life support due to android apps? No, not quite. Android apps are not the reason people come to BlackBerry. It helps with the lack of apps, but if you are fooling yourself thinking that people buy BlackBerry devices because of this, then I urge you to re-check reality.

    Life support? Maybe. It's still doing strong in entreprise.

    Hardware? Yes, I do expect him to keep pushing that till the ship turns around, that's what he was hired to do. Most have a thick skull to graps the strategy, but I think he wants to play his strengths as he slowlyy puts the pieces together to start making BlackBerry matter for the general public again. How did BlackBerry grow so big? By being strong and relevant on the enterprise till the symbol was so bifg, the regular Joe wanted one. I'm pretty sure this is part of the strategy. The OS is solid, the hardware is good. Let the business man notice that and say he likes his device (trust me, the 1 in a 100 BlackBerry 10 user I meet, always gives me that answer) and let that carry over to other people. We'll keep pushing that till we have a failsafe strategy to sell to the joes and marys.

    Let's just hope, as Bla1ze and (missing?) Chris Umiastowsky pointe out, they don't run out of cash before that happens (and as a last note, they ARE doing better each quarter - maybe not selling phones, but running in a more lean way).
    02-28-15 07:27 PM
  7. diegonei's Avatar
    Wall of text is wall.

    02-28-15 07:28 PM
  8. anon6040766's Avatar
    With the right marketing can BlackBerry make is way back to #3 in cell phone sells. I think 10.3.1 is amazing what do you think ?

    Posted via CB10
    Step 1: you convert as much BES as you have running 9900 and 9930 to BES10 and Passports or Classics. Most likely Classics. That conversion alone while not nearly as much as before is instant business.

    Step 2: capitalize on BES conversion. Oh my wife's job gave her a Classic and I realize how much I miss my old BlackBerry so I go snatch up a Passport.

    I strongly believe Enterprise conversion will lead to increase of NEW devices in the wild which drive switches from other brands incrementally over time. Remember if you switch from a 9930 to a Classic, BlackBerry doesn't get a closer to anybody. It's those with expired contracts that need a reason to switch.

    Posted via my amazing BlackBerry Passport
    diegonei and DarkJoker33 like this.
    02-28-15 07:35 PM
  9. diegonei's Avatar
    Step 1: you convert as much BES as you have running 9900 and 9930 to BES10 and Passports or Classics. Most likely Classics. That conversion alone while not nearly as much as before is instant business.

    Step 2: capitalize on BES conversion. Oh my wife's job gave her a Classic and I realize how much I miss my old BlackBerry so I go snatch up a Passport.

    I strongly believe Enterprise conversion will lead to increase of NEW devices in the wild which drive switches from other brands incrementally over time. Remember if you switch from a 9930 to a Classic, BlackBerry doesn't get a closer to anybody. It's those with expired contracts that need a reason to switch.
    Exactly what I was talking about.
    02-28-15 07:57 PM
  10. vbdwork's Avatar
    You voiced your opinion, I voiced mine.
    Sure, everyone can share his opinion. Weak arguments lead to aggressive behavior and comments on other members.

    Android apps are not the reason people come to BlackBerry.
    Just the opposite - Android apps are the reason people leave BlackBerry. Or the lack of native BB10 apps, in other words.

    It's still doing strong in entreprise.
    Myth. Most companies already switched to BYOD and in most cases it's not BlackBerry.

    Yes, I do expect him to keep pushing that till the ship turns around, that's what he was hired to do.
    Very naive. Chen was sent there to save investors. He will cut every single losing department, including hardware and OS development. Individual customers are last on the list. In this situation it really doesn't matter what they want or expect.
    eyesopen1111, dolco and Witmen like this.
    02-28-15 07:57 PM
  11. diegonei's Avatar
    Not at this point. I'm only interested in touchscreen devices at this point, and there isn't anything recent from BlackBerry that is touchscreen--the Z30 was only for Verizon, and I have AT&T.

    I'm not sure that really is the case. Windows Phone doesn't have any Google apps and doesn't have Snapchat. I don't need those, but their lack is a major issue for some people.

    The whole low-end thing is somewhat problematic for some Windows Phone users. I'm still waiting for a new high-end device, since all the new devices seem to be low-end at this time.
    Meh... Where there is awill, there is a way... I got the Z10 before it came to Brasil. And I have a Z30, which was never released here. lol Quite sure PK or somebody else here would be happy to ship you one.

    As with many things, it seems like only Apple can really move google to get stuff off it's own plartorm. I'm glad that I don't dependon it for much more than PIM sync.

    They have some nice Lumias... My most recent ex has a 1020, it'squite a nice device. She even got lucky and has a 64GB version. Not too shabby, not that far from the Z30.

    Oh yeah, and with a crazy 41megapixel camera.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-28-15 08:02 PM
  12. diegonei's Avatar
    Sure, everyone can share his opinion. Weak arguments lead to aggressive behavior and comments on other members.

    Just the opposite - Android apps are the reason people leave BlackBerry. Or the lack of native BB10 apps, in other words.

    Myth. Most companies already switched to BYOD and in most cases it's not BlackBerry.

    Very naive. Chen was sent there to save investors. He will cut every single losing department, including hardware and OS development. Individual customers are last on the list. In this situation it really doesn't matter what they want or expect.
    Ok pal, not going there. We had our dance. It's over now.
    02-28-15 08:04 PM
  13. cbvinh's Avatar
    I don't care if BlackBerry 10 gets ahead of Windows Phone. I care that BlackBerry makes a profit from the few devices they do sell. That's what's important for investors and the health of the company... and ultimately means that devices will still be made for the customers.

    If Apple were to be used as an example, they're not after marketshare. They're not about to erode their margins to beat out Android. They're perfectly happy with lower market share and profit.
    Last edited by cbvinh; 03-01-15 at 04:53 AM. Reason: typo: happen->happy
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    02-28-15 08:11 PM
  14. vbdwork's Avatar
    Ok pal, not going there. We had our dance. It's over now.
    Never go in hardware field. You're not a good dancer there. Peace.
    02-28-15 08:11 PM
  15. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    BlackBerry is currently no threat to overtake Microsoft in terms of market share, and as for OS issues, 10.3.1 is actually a downgrade from 10.3.0 IMHO. BlackBerry was the only major mobile company to see its market share shrink down to .4% per latest IDC report, selling only 5.8 million phones in all of 2014. Those numbers are horrible and need to be the first issue BlackBerry addresses, regardless of what Windows Phone is or is not doing. If BlackBerry cannot turn this negative trend around, BlackBerry smartphones are going to be a thing of the past in a hurry.

    Right now, the sad truth seems to be that although many of us want as many options as possible when it comes to smartphone OS brands, there are only two competitive companies: Google and Apple. Microsoft has money to promote and subsidize Windows Phone, but given the poor results Windows Phone has achieved despite all of this support, I consider it a loser. Whether Nokia puts WP in a device or Samsung or HTC does, WP always lessens the value of the device relative to what the identical device would be worth if it were running Google's Android. I just don't see much hope for WP thriving on its own merits, so I think it'll continue to drain Microsoft as a cost of doing business for staying in a brutal smartphone war that Microsoft cannot afford to leave.
    vbdwork likes this.
    02-28-15 08:31 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Meh... Where there is awill, there is a way... I got the Z10 before it came to Brasil. And I have a Z30, which was never released here. lol Quite sure PK or somebody else here would be happy to ship you one.

    As with many things, it seems like only Apple can really move google to get stuff off it's own plartorm. I'm glad that I don't dependon it for much more than PIM sync.

    They have some nice Lumias... My most recent ex has a 1020, it'squite a nice device. She even got lucky and has a 64GB version. Not too shabby, not that far from the Z30.

    Oh yeah, and with a crazy 41megapixel camera.

    I don't know if you have LTE where you live. The unlocked international devices of any platform typically don't support US carriers' LTE bands. I'd never consider any device without LTE.

    The Lumia 1020 is nice, but it's old at this point. It is basically the same as my Lumia 920 except it has a better camera. Same processor though. I wouldn't consider a device to be better unless all the hardware is better.
    02-28-15 08:32 PM
  17. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Step 1: you convert as much BES as you have running 9900 and 9930 to BES10 and Passports or Classics. Most likely Classics. That conversion alone while not nearly as much as before is instant business.

    Step 2: capitalize on BES conversion. Oh my wife's job gave her a Classic and I realize how much I miss my old BlackBerry so I go snatch up a Passport.

    I strongly believe Enterprise conversion will lead to increase of NEW devices in the wild which drive switches from other brands incrementally over time. Remember if you switch from a 9930 to a Classic, BlackBerry doesn't get a closer to anybody. It's those with expired contracts that need a reason to switch.

    Posted via my amazing BlackBerry Passport
    Yup. This right here. No telling if this strategy will work, but this makes the most sense and IMO is what Chen is trying to do. And anecdotally I do see it working. My company is a mix of BYOD and corporate issued Classic's or Z30's. The folks I know that use these phones are very impressed with them.
    02-28-15 10:26 PM
  18. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Sure, everyone can share his opinion. Weak arguments lead to aggressive behavior and comments on other members.



    Just the opposite - Android apps are the reason people leave BlackBerry. Or the lack of native BB10 apps, in other words.



    Myth. Most companies already switched to BYOD and in most cases it's not BlackBerry.



    Very naive. Chen was sent there to save investors. He will cut every single losing department, including hardware and OS development. Individual customers are last on the list. In this situation it really doesn't matter what they want or expect.
    I would say lack of apps is the reason people have not bought a BlackBerry. It's hard for people who never came to your platform to leave.

    In terms of BYOD, nobody will disagree that this is the direction. However, according to a Gartner article, they predict 50% of compaies will be BYOD by 2017. This is the most relevant article I could find. Feel free to post up something more recent.

    Gartner Predicts by 2017, Half of Employers will Require Employees to Supply Their Own Device for Work Purposes

    What does this mean? It means that there are still over 50% of companies offering corporate issued devices. There is still significant opportunity for BlackBerry to gain traction with enterprise users. This explains why Chen brought back the tool belt and made the Classic his top priority. He thought he would have an easier time differentiating from iPhone's and S5's. With that said, the Z10, then Z30, and soon to be leap fill the all touch void.

    Chen does have to save investors. But cutting the company to the point there is nothing left does nothing for investors either. You have to look at the big picture. Do handsets compliment any of BlackBerry's other businesses? Would cutting them hurt those businesses? If BlackBerry can make a nice profit on HW, even with 1% of global market share, do you cut that business?

    IMO, HW will stick around for the next 3 years at which time they will decide. BB10 will be 5 years old and will have had enough time to make or break assuming BlackBerry actually sticks to a solid year over year devices roadmap and spends some advertising dollars. It's hard to sell product when you don't make it, and then don't advertise whatever you do have.
    02-28-15 10:47 PM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    BlackBerry is currently no threat to overtake Microsoft in terms of market share, and as for OS issues, 10.3.1 is actually a downgrade from 10.3.0 IMHO. BlackBerry was the only major mobile company to see its market share shrink down to .4% per latest IDC report, selling only 5.8 million phones in all of 2014. Those numbers are horrible and need to be the first issue BlackBerry addresses, regardless of what Windows Phone is or is not doing. If BlackBerry cannot turn this negative trend around, BlackBerry smartphones are going to be a thing of the past in a hurry.

    Right now, the sad truth seems to be that although many of us want as many options as possible when it comes to smartphone OS brands, there are only two competitive companies: Google and Apple. Microsoft has money to promote and subsidize Windows Phone, but given the poor results Windows Phone has achieved despite all of this support, I consider it a loser. Whether Nokia puts WP in a device or Samsung or HTC does, WP always lessens the value of the device relative to what the identical device would be worth if it were running Google's Android. I just don't see much hope for WP thriving on its own merits, so I think it'll continue to drain Microsoft as a cost of doing business for staying in a brutal smartphone war that Microsoft cannot afford to leave.
    Microsoft will hang in there and will eventually make it work. As for BlackBerry, as long as they can make money on HW then they should stay in that business. If they exit, believe me when I say that there will come a time when they want back in, but they won't be able to do it as they will be so far behind (yes, even further behind than now). Devices are a brutal business, but there is a reason why so many want in.
    02-28-15 10:51 PM
  20. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    The last nail in the coffin is Google Inbox, coming soon.
    Google inbox basically takes your email inbox and makes it look like your FB news feed. Very clever. I'd love to try it out. And this right here is the beauty of competition. If this proves to be a smashing success I'm sure we will see Apple, BB, and Microsoft raise the bar for their respective email apps.
    02-28-15 11:00 PM
  21. rick365's Avatar
    no, easy way like that (OS update) won't make the rank higher. They kill their own market (in the first place) by judging their phones are for specific market (enterprise maybe). If they want to make a change, just build the phone for everyone.
    02-28-15 11:06 PM
  22. vbdwork's Avatar
    I would say lack of apps is the reason people have not bought a BlackBerry. It's hard for people who never came to your platform to leave.
    Some never came, many left and leaving. I don't remember the source of information, but it was saying BlackBerry is losing about 50K users a month in UK alone. Quite possible. It's hard to spot a BlackBerry device around these days. Weak ecosystem is not the only reason. No upgrade options is also a major factor. What Z10 users upgrade to? 2012 hardware Z30? Passport is not an option for many users.

    In terms of BYOD, nobody will disagree that this is the direction. However, according to a Gartner article, they predict 50% of compaies will be BYOD by 2017. This is the most relevant article I could find. Feel free to post up something more recent.
    True. Most companies provide mobile devices and there is no choice for employees, but it doesn't automatically mean those devices are BlackBerry. I work with many logistics companies. Just one is still using BlackBerry devices and is moving to iPhone in 06/2015. Major players with thousands of employees dropped BlackBerry few years ago. One of the reasons is that more advanced automation software systems don't work with BB10. Applications for mobile devices are for Android and iOS only.

    Chen does have to save investors. But cutting the company to the point there is nothing left does nothing for investors either. You have to look at the big picture. Do handsets compliment any of BlackBerry's other businesses? Would cutting them hurt those businesses? If BlackBerry can make a nice profit on HW, even with 1% of global market share, do you cut that business?
    Security solutions, QNX embedded systems, car information/entertainment, bank terminals, POS solutions, BBM (still alive and profitable)... there are many things to do without need to manufacture hardware. IBM dropped consumer products manufacturing years ago, as an example. It's better to restructure the business and stay alive than continue already lost battle on highly competitive mobile market. The other option is to order BB10 devices from another manufacturer. Companies like Oppo, Xiaomi, ZTE, etc. are capable to make a new device every 3-6 months.
    02-28-15 11:38 PM
  23. vbdwork's Avatar
    Google inbox basically takes your email inbox and makes it look like your FB news feed. Very clever. I'd love to try it out.
    So, you never tried it and don't know exactly what it is, but you already have an opinion? Nice.
    02-28-15 11:40 PM
  24. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    Microsoft will hang in there and will eventually make it work. As for BlackBerry, as long as they can make money on HW then they should stay in that business. If they exit, believe me when I say that there will come a time when they want back in, but they won't be able to do it as they will be so far behind (yes, even further behind than now). Devices are a brutal business, but there is a reason why so many want in.
    Some companies want in to the smartphone wars, but others (like Sony) are leaving. And in Sony's case, they were producing some of the best smartphones out there, the likes of which BlackBerry and many others could only dream of equaling.

    It's a very tough business, and BlackBerry has few of the resources that many other competitors have. Chen says he wants to sell 10 million smartphones in 2015, 172% of the 5.8 million sold in 2014. Very ambitious given BlackBerry's resource level. And BlackBerry's 2015 phones being discussed on this forum (Passport, Leap, Visa, Classic) may have a hard time meeting that goal.

    I agree that Microsoft could be able to support WP for a long time, if that's the strategy they choose. But I'm just not as sure that WP will ever really catch on, so there might come a time that MS gets out of smartphones, too. Being pushed down market is the first big step to being pushed out of the market.
    02-28-15 11:48 PM
  25. Skatophilia's Avatar
    I think the Rio/Leap will be a big help on BlackBerry's part. Even though the phone's specs may be on the lower side, the hardware is clearly left over stock. BlackBerry has most likely made Break even or higher selling the Z10/Q10/Z30 and so why not use the same hardware, construct a new phone with that hardware and then blow it out and a low price that will attract? A low price means that more people could afford it, popularity may go up and you're getting rid of all your old hardware in the process. Its a win-win!
    DarkJoker33 likes this.
    03-01-15 12:04 AM
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