1. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    Hey folks,

    So i'm returning to the world of Blackberry OS 10 after leaving it during the playbook / dev alpha era. That said i've followed the highs and lows of BB10 for many years and still think theres a lot of life in the old dog yet.

    To address this I've decided to start an effort to create an open source ecosystem around BB10 complete with a marketplace of apps and a more up to date set of utilities and tooling so we can actually build for and use our beloved devices as daily drivers once more.

    I've created a project on github (https://github.com/O-NX) which i'll be pushing code to starting this weekend with the aim of doing things like getting a modern Chromium instance building under QNX, creating a build target for the likes of react native and flutter, upgrading BSD utils and the Android runtime and more.

    Now, that being said I'm a fella of limited time so i'll only be able to contribute a day or 2 a week to the project and i'm doing this out in the open so that people can contribute their own work and ideas or better yet take responsibility for one or more of the projects.

    I've picked up a passport and will probably start with a marketplace for all the wonderful apps that arent in BB world but live on this forum as sideloadable BARs (Eventually allowing community submission for new apps).

    Worst case we have more utilities and apps available and easily accessible on our old BB10 devices best case we pick up enough steam to push Blackberry to Open Source BB10 in some shape or form.

    All and every contribution welcome.
    05-07-20 02:31 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Welcome to CrackBerry... that's a way to do a first post!


    Sorry but BB10 is based on QNX, which is a very active product for BlackBerry... you would have a better chance getting them to "open" BBOS or the PlayBook OS. It's just not going to happen, they have moved on....

    There are some existing folks here working on the solutions that can be worked on.... like browser and twitter. But the Runtime is in the OS... we don't have access. I'd suggest you "hook-up" with some of these others, and see if you can help their efforts. @TrumpetTiger is compiling apps and has talked a lot about some sort of system for offering apps already... might see if he needs help, as he has been a little busy of late. He might be able to give you an idea of the scale of what you want to do.
    Last edited by Dunt Dunt Dunt; 05-07-20 at 03:22 PM.
    05-07-20 03:10 PM
  3. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    Yep I actually did a bit of embedded QNX Dev in a past life for work so I understand that they aren't massively keen on open sorcing QNX given its a pretty little cashpot for them on embedded systems. but that upper layer of the OS could be opened up now it's been abandoned.

    Also as an aside, the idea that proprietary=more secure is garbage. Open source means more scrutiny and thus more visibility of flaws and vulnerabilities pointed out by those smarter than the original Dev (first hand experience talking)

    As to your Android runtime comments, yes but it's a standalone package that while integrated Into BBOS can be removed and by that logic (given the modular nature of the OS) can be replaced. On the other hand a packaged runtime in a native app would allow us to "wrap" exiting native apps of any API level.

    I absolutely will loop in with those Dev (thanks for the pointer!)
    Last edited by patrickjmquinn; 05-07-20 at 03:38 PM.
    05-07-20 03:22 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Yep I actually did a bit of embedded QNX Dev in a past life for work so I understand that they aren't massively keen on open sorcing QNX given its a pretty little cashpot for them on embedded systems. but that upper layer of the OS could be opened up now it's been abandoned.

    Also as an aside, the idea that proprietary=more secure is garbage. Open source means more scrutiny and thus more visibility of flaws and vulnerabilities pointed out by those smarter than the original Dev (first hand experience talking)

    As to your Android runtime comments, yes but it's a standalone package that while integrated Into BBOS can be removed and by that logic (given the modular nature of the OS) can be replaced. On the other hand a packaged runtime in a native app would allow us to "wrap" exiting native apps of any API level.

    I absolutely will loop in with those Dev (thanks for the pointer!)
    Won't happen.

    BlackBerry won't give out its signings keys.
    05-07-20 03:50 PM
  5. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    I'd like to try. I have signing privileges so if I have to sign every app that goes on the market I will. As is always said in startup land, "dont tell me why it wont happen, tell me how it could"
    05-07-20 04:00 PM
  6. EFats's Avatar
    I'd like to try. I have signing privileges so if I have to sign every app that goes on the market I will. As is always said in startup land, "dont tell me why it wont happen, tell me how it could"
    I will have to check to see if I have ability to sign though that may run out for me this year.
    It's encouraging to see you start this, someone who seems to know a bit about what's going on rather than blind hope.
    If this COVID thing keeps up, I'll have more time on my hands than anticipated.

    Someone should archive the BB10 SDK's and documentation somewhere as a first step.

    If we're just basically making new apps to sideload and not touching the OS, I don't see much roadblocks to doing this.
    patrickjmquinn likes this.
    05-07-20 04:14 PM
  7. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    capturing everything that is currently on blackberry's dev portal and cataloging it is a fantastic idea. Going to do that now. I own open-nx.org so i'll probably host the binaries there for long term reference. Ideally i'd like to do just that, have a community of people building (preferably native) apps for BBOS and having a more streamlined way of side-loading them on the device. That'd be a great first step to breathing new life into BB10. The more eyes on the platform the more we can do.
    dwatts26726 likes this.
    05-07-20 04:23 PM
  8. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    Ive also just purchased a leap, a Q20 and a Q5 so on top of my passport we should be covered for device support
    dwatts26726 and bbfanfan like this.
    05-07-20 04:56 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Ive also just purchased a leap, a Q20 and a Q5 so on top of my passport we should be covered for device support
    There are likely only a couple hundred thousand BB10 users left - and dropping fast. The sub-set of those that are actually capable of assisting you with this venture is minuscule.
    05-07-20 07:20 PM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    So, even if it were possible to update ART, can that "ancient" hardware even handle the demands of newer apps?
    05-07-20 07:39 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    So, even if it were possible to update ART, can that "ancient" hardware even handle the demands of newer apps?
    Without BlackBerry's own signing keys, the Runtime can't be updated. So it's a moot point.

    But no, BB10 likely can't handle it anyways
    05-07-20 07:49 PM
  12. Leyra B10's Avatar
    I'd like to try. I have signing privileges so if I have to sign every app that goes on the market I will. As is always said in startup land, "dont tell me why it wont happen, tell me how it could"

    Don't bother with the framework support. You need a relevant userAgent, and support for common data structures and classes used by those frameworks. Like for...of, Symbol and template literals.

    Setting up a store front with an appworld like protocol for the userAgent seems like a good idea to me, if that is possible. So one could attach meta data for a QR code, like an icon and redirect to an endpoint.

    Would be nice if it was easier to extend interoperabilty to what these applications provide. Backround scripts.

    Headless Monitor
    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/59963015
    Bron
    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/42462901


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Leyra B10; 05-07-20 at 09:42 PM.
    05-07-20 09:22 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    I really like that it’s an open project. For hobbyists who want to hack on BB10, this could be a cool community.

    As others have pointed out, you will be limited to apps obviously. That’s all any of us can sign and install on BB10 devices.
    05-08-20 12:20 AM
  14. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    Don't bother with the framework support. You need a relevant userAgent, and support for common data structures and classes used by those frameworks. Like for...of, Symbol and template literals.

    Setting up a store front with an appworld like protocol for the userAgent seems like a good idea to me, if that is possible. So one could attach meta data for a QR code, like an icon and redirect to an endpoint.

    Would be nice if it was easier to extend interoperabilty to what these applications provide. Backround scripts.

    Headless Monitor
    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/59963015
    Bron
    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/42462901


    Posted via CB10
    Yup, first port of call is getting the marketplace set up and creating examples of how to build native apps for BB10 (i.e the boilerplate repo). There is also the berrymuch OS repo on git that will be the basis of the Utils repo thats there, having modern libs precompiled for BB10 will allow us to to do more.

    After that i'm hell bent on getting a modern Firefox or Chromium build environment set up so at the very least we can browse natively with full support for modern web standards (all of my web apps use ES6, none of my web apps work on native BB browsers...). The QNX web browser 7 is actually built on top of blink according to their product page so i'm hopeful that they've pushed some support patched upstream that we can use.
    05-08-20 03:13 AM
  15. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    Yep I agree. Being realistic it's unlikely we change the world here but it would fantastic to have more native apps that fill the gap left by the services that have been sunsetted and extend it with new stuff while we're at it.

    Something like this needs to be open IMO, there are a load of active devs floating around these parts who deserve an audience and a better development experience. Lets hope this is a first step towards that
    app_Developer and Paulelmar18 like this.
    05-08-20 03:29 AM
  16. Gordo inc's Avatar
    Wow....i respect you guys. I shall be looking for your creations si that I can give them a go and thank you for your respectable efforts. I commit to share any idea or project I find.

    Posted via CB10
    patrickjmquinn likes this.
    05-08-20 06:52 AM
  17. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    Hi all, I'm looking for any devs out there who have docs or content they could share on how to best develop apps for BB10 in 2020, currently using Momentics and the old simulator but I'd rather have docs and tutorials available with more modern tooling such as Visual Studio or QT Creator rather than the rather painful eclipse based environment that BB offered. Specifically i'm pooling information to go into the Boilerplate app repo of the project along with a sample that covers the basics (nav, lists, tab layout, networking, event listeners etc etc).

    Any one out there have anything they want to share? @TrumpetTiger perhaps?
    05-08-20 11:09 AM
  18. BronzeBeard's Avatar
    I could be completely wrong, but my understanding is that Browser is built on top of Qt4 QtWebkit. When BlackBerry ported Qt5, they attempted to update Browser to Qt5 QtWebkit, but ran into issue with touch inside the widget.

    If you could resolve that issue in Qt5 Webkit, you can back port QtWebkit updates to BB's Qt5 implemention and get yourself to a 2016 level browser.

    Qt switched to QtWebengine in the middle of Qt5. The rendering engine for it is chromium, not blink. Porting that would be quite a bit more work.

    Some devs are maintaining qt webkit out of tree, so that is another option for modern browser if you can fix the touch issues in Qt5. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ebKit-May-2017

    (I've considered doing this for some time. But I am way too busy writing software for my work that I don't want to touch it in my free time.)
    Posted via CB10
    crberryy and bbfanfan like this.
    05-08-20 12:15 PM
  19. johnb_xp's Avatar
    I managed to get a VM of QNX 4 running on my Classic... no luck getting android to boot in a VM.
    I was using an android port of the Bochs emulator, and it was emulating x86 instructions.
    If you can get a native VM software running with ARM instructions you could probably get Android 6.0 running or Oreo Go.
    crberryy likes this.
    05-08-20 01:14 PM
  20. kristofszucs's Avatar
    not sure about the solution but i would pay serious money if i could use my passport again with apps i need to have
    Tylerr64 and hedgecore44 like this.
    05-08-20 01:45 PM
  21. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    I could be completely wrong, but my understanding is that Browser is built on top of Qt4 QtWebkit. When BlackBerry ported Qt5, they attempted to update Browser to Qt5 QtWebkit, but ran into issue with touch inside the widget.

    If you could resolve that issue in Qt5 Webkit, you can back port QtWebkit updates to BB's Qt5 implemention and get yourself to a 2016 level browser.

    Qt switched to QtWebengine in the middle of Qt5. The rendering engine for it is chromium, not blink. Porting that would be quite a bit more work.

    Some devs are maintaining qt webkit out of tree, so that is another option for modern browser if you can fix the touch issues in Qt5. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ebKit-May-2017

    (I've considered doing this for some time. But I am way too busy writing software for my work that I don't want to touch it in my free time.)
    Posted via CB10
    So I've looked into it and it seems they actually got pretty close to its being fully stable. I'll have to kick off a build and test what works and what doesn't

    Posted via CB10
    crberryy likes this.
    05-08-20 04:25 PM
  22. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    I managed to get a VM of QNX 4 running on my Classic... no luck getting android to boot in a VM.
    I was using an android port of the Bochs emulator, and it was emulating x86 instructions.
    If you can get a native VM software running with ARM instructions you could probably get Android 6.0 running or Oreo Go.
    Oh man, it's a option for sure, wouldn't the overhead be hideous? Like worse than the existing runtime slow. Maybe taking a stab at porting Anbox is worth a punt!

    Posted via CB10
    05-08-20 04:29 PM
  23. patrickjmquinn's Avatar
    not sure about the solution but i would pay serious money if i could use my passport again with apps i need to have

    Might think about a donations system to individual devs on the market place

    Posted via CB10
    05-08-20 04:32 PM
  24. Tylerr64's Avatar
    not sure about the solution but i would pay serious money if i could use my passport again with apps i need to have
    So would I!!!!!
    05-08-20 06:35 PM
  25. dwatts26726's Avatar
    Seeing any activity for BB10 is a wonderful thing. Mad love to anyone willing to spend time keeping it working.

    I'll also ask, are there any other apps currently being developed other than BBTube (@Alexey Gurevski) and Bird10 (@Simo_Dax)?
    05-09-20 12:20 AM
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