02-09-18 05:46 PM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Really? Explain what the “agenda” was for the overall strategy.

    The various Android versions are named after desserts, and are in alphabetical order. There’s logic and internal consistency to it, and it makes things instantly recognizable and easy to remember. Plus, it builds buzz for the next version when the Android community starts guessing what it will be called.

    edit: ninja’d
    They weren't even smart enough to figure out they couldn't call then new OS BBX. Coming up with a naming system for devices was asking too much. And I wonder how many Z10 owners know it's really a Zed10 for some reason.... not sure why the Q10 was just a Q10. Anyway never was a "next" to worry about anyway.

    If the KEYone get's an update, it'll be the first BlackBerry to achieve that in almost a decade.
    02-01-18 10:24 AM
  2. Emaderton3's Avatar
    It's going to be Peppermint.

    Posted via CB10
    What happens when they hit "z" ? Then what?
    02-01-18 10:27 AM
  3. brookie229's Avatar
    What happens when they hit "z" ? Then what?
    That's going to be a tough one - Zero Bar--Zotz-- not exactly world-wide names.
    02-01-18 10:55 AM
  4. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Android P - Popsicle?
    02-01-18 11:19 AM
  5. falbo's Avatar
    What happens when they hit "z" ? Then what?
    Zwetschgenkuchen.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-18 11:42 AM
  6. falbo's Avatar
    Or princess cake for P.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-18 11:43 AM
  7. joeldf's Avatar
    They weren't even smart enough to figure out they couldn't call then new OS BBX. Coming up with a naming system for devices was asking too much. And I wonder how many Z10 owners know it's really a Zed10 for some reason.... not sure why the Q10 was just a Q10. Anyway never was a "next" to worry about anyway.

    If the KEYone get's an update, it'll be the first BlackBerry to achieve that in almost a decade.
    Those of us on these forums at the time know. That's simply a difference in how Canadians, and some Americans pronounce the letter "Z". They see the letter and immediately say "zed". While others, mostly in the U.S., say "zee".

    It's the same depending on where you are from. But it is simply the letter's pronunciation either way.

    The letter "Q" is still pronounced "cue" either way.
    02-01-18 11:51 AM
  8. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    What is a "Q?"
    Attached Thumbnails BlackBerry vs. BB10 holders-47533.jpg  
    02-01-18 11:59 AM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    They can buy anything they want, OR stick to BB10 if that suits their purpose.

    But to ask BlackBerry to resurrect BB10 from the depths of the abyss in order to lose hundreds of millions more is insanity.
    I think these may be the same people lobbying for the re-launch of New Coke!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-01-18 12:31 PM
  10. DonHB's Avatar
    In 2013. No. Kitkat did not even start to be deployed until Nov 2013, and didn't see moderate use until mid-2014.

    Netflix worked straight up - no mods.

    Instagram worked straight up - no mods.

    Candy crush worked straight up - no mods.

    Vine worked straight up - no mods.


    Etc, etc, etc.
    The point was support for Android ended at 4.3 and BlackBerry essentially deprecated Android on BB10 by ending upgrades to it from 10.3. With the introduction of 10.3.2 worldwide the runtime was still not updated to the last release paired with Dalvik. Kit Kat would have allowed many apps paired with devices using Bluetooth Low Energy (or Smart).
    Last edited by DonHB; 02-03-18 at 09:29 AM.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    02-03-18 09:12 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    The point was support for Android ended at 4.3 and BlackBerry essentially deprecated Android on BB10 by ending upgrades to it from 10.3 onwards.
    That wasn't a problem (or a foreseen issue) until late 2015 - long after making any difference to developers in 2013/2014.

    You think Netflix didn't bother taking two minutes to port its app in early 2013 because they peered into the future and determined the Android Runtime was not going to get KitKat in 2015?
    02-03-18 09:18 AM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    The point was support for Android ended at 4.3 and BlackBerry essentially deprecated Android on BB10 by ending upgrades to it from 10.3 onwards.
    they also smartly ended development on BB10 at 10.3 when they discovered that it was a lost cause that no one was buying and pivoted the company into what it is today. Which is the smartest thing that BB has done over the last 10 years.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-03-18 09:23 AM
  13. DonHB's Avatar
    That wasn't a problem (or a foreseen issue) until late 2015 - long after making any difference to developers in 2013/2014.

    You think Netflix didn't bother taking two minutes to port its app in early 2013 because they peered into the future and determined the Android Runtime was not going to get KitKat in 2015?
    No.

    Developers did not want to produce a second code base for a platform from a company with a questionable future. That Android on BB10 did not support Flow suggested support for Android was a stop gap measure to get apps and could be deprecated at any time. It was with 10.3.

    And it was deprecated to the point that BlackBerry did not bother to support the last version paired with Dalvik: Kit Kat.
    02-03-18 09:45 AM
  14. DonHB's Avatar
    OK. You will say they couldn't do it because of licensing of GPS.
    02-03-18 09:48 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    No.

    Developers did not want to produce a second code base for a platform from a company with a questionable future. That Android on BB10 did not support Flow suggested support for Android was a stop gap measure to get apps and could be deprecated at any time. It was with 10.3.

    And they did not bother to support the last version paired with Dalvik--Kit Kat.
    Omg!

    BB10 had a questionable future regardless of its design.

    In 2013, developers didn't need another code base for BB10. Many Android apps worked straight up as is without any required modification.
    02-03-18 09:48 AM
  16. DonHB's Avatar
    Omg!

    BB10 had a questionable future regardless of its design.

    In 2013, developers didn't need another code base for BB10. Many Android apps worked straight up as is without any required modification.
    But any Android app did not feel like a BB10 app. Android, therefore, was a second class development solution for BB10 producing what would appear to any device owner to be lower quality apps.

    Why then would the likes of Netflix support Android on BB10? They did support Android on Amazon devices and ultimately removed support for BB10 from Amazon's app store.

    Can you name any company in the league of Netflix that submitted Android apps to BlackBerry World? I think that Waze was submitted to BBW before it was purchased by Google, but it was removed afterward. It is still available from Amazon, but it was never updated on Amazon's app store

    Edit: Just wanted to add that Waze did not use the Android UI either. So, Waze was actually an exception to the above premise because neither the Android UI nor Flow was used and it took the UI approach of games on all platforms.
    Last edited by DonHB; 02-03-18 at 11:16 AM.
    02-03-18 10:46 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    But any Android app did not feel like a BB10 app. Android, therefore, was a second class development solution for BB10 producing what would appear to any device owner to be lower quality apps.

    Why then would the likes of Netflix support Android on BB10? They did support Android on Amazon devices and ultimately removed support for BB10 from Amazon's app store.

    Can you name any company in the league of Netflix that submitted Android apps to BlackBerry World? I think that Waze was submitted to BBW before it was purchased by Google, but it was removed afterward. It is still available from Amazon, but it was never updated on Amazon's app store.
    If they aren't going to take 2 minutes to port an already existing, working app, they are far, far, far, far less likely to code something from scratch given the uncertainties involved with a new platform.

    The fact that few of them did does not point to anything else other than the fact that they weren't interested in a 3rd platform. Period.

    The only reason some developers removed BB10 access to Amazon apps was that some dumb dumb users complained about nonsense issues. By that point the non-Google Android idea was long dead anyway.

    The whole BB10 Android Runtime was actuality quite brilliant. Allow developers a low-cost, low-risk avenue to bring their already working apps to the platform. If BB10 had taken off, they could have then invested in native apps. BlackBerry already knew that developers' desire for a 3rd platform was almost nil - or if they didn't, they found out quickly.

    By the summer of 2013 it was crystal clear.
    Last edited by conite; 02-03-18 at 11:21 AM.
    02-03-18 11:09 AM
  18. joeldf's Avatar
    Android on BB10 was most definitely a stop-gap measure. It was never intended to be a real solution. I think we all knew that at the time. That's why the runtime was locked, and any android app you wanted had to be converted into a bar wrapper and side-loaded with the phone in developer mode.

    BlackBerry hoped that they could get enough developers on board once they "see the advantage of the BB10 OS".

    Yes, some developers did jump in (the USA Today app already had an interface that was similar to Cascades). At first doing their own conversions. But as time went on, they were abandoned.

    BlackBerry's next gasp was to unlock the runtime and let apks install directly without the bar wrapper and without developer mode side-loading. That's when the Amazon App Store was added.

    I don't who ticked off Netflix, maybe someone's wife was slept with, but Netflix made a conscious effort to have Amazon block all BB10 phones from their app several months after that. Something about that just seemed so petty, because no one else did that.

    Either way, that tells you something about the environment that BlackBerry had to deal with.

    I think there were a lot of backroom deals going back to the BBOS days that went sour over time, and that baggage hurts a company in the long run.
    02-03-18 11:12 AM
  19. DonHB's Avatar
    If they aren't going to take 2 minutes to port an already existing, working app, they are far, far, far, far less likely to code something from scratch given the uncertainties involved with a new platform.

    The fact that few of them did does not point to anything else other than the fact that they weren't interested in a 3rd platform. Period.

    The only reason some developers removed BB10 access to Amazon apps was that some dumb dumb users complained about nonsense issues. By that point the non-Google Android idea was long dead anyway.
    Well, we will never know had BB10 supported Flow from within Android apps if more developers would have supported the platform.

    But, judging from the above post it was an issue.
    02-03-18 11:21 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Well, we will never know had BB10 supported Flow from within Android apps if more developers would have supported the platform.

    But, judging from the above post it was an issue.
    Asking developers to do even more work would have made things infinitely worse. Of that there is little doubt.
    02-03-18 11:24 AM
  21. DonHB's Avatar
    Asking developers to do even more work would have made things infinitely worse. Of that there is little doubt.
    Could the Android UI be mapped directly to the Flow UX? If so, privileges would be the only thing not supported in an Android binary.
    02-03-18 12:40 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    Could the Android UI be mapped directly to the Flow UX? If so, privileges would be the only thing not supported in an Android binary.
    Depends on how well you want it to work. What about keyboard focus issues, drop down settings menus, long-hold flyout menus? None of that can just be mapped.

    Either way, with zero effort they wouldn't come, so with >=zero effort, they wouldn't have come either.
    02-03-18 01:01 PM
  23. DonHB's Avatar
    Either way, with zero effort they wouldn't come, so with >=zero effort, they wouldn't have come either.
    You seem to have missed the point.

    Android as implemented did not provide apps that conform to the Flow UX requirements.

    So, either developers needed to create a new code base or sell a compromised product.

    Many therefore decided not to bother.
    02-03-18 02:49 PM
  24. conite's Avatar

    So, either developers needed to create a new code base or sell a compromised product.

    Many therefore decided not to bother.
    It wasn't compromised in any way (at least the Android developers would sure has heck not think so) - it was exactly the same as it was on Android.

    More than half the apps in BlackBerry World were Android ports.
    02-03-18 03:06 PM
  25. DonHB's Avatar
    More than half the apps in BlackBerry World were Android ports.
    The preferred native app was not just about performance. It was about the lack of Flow of those Android ports.
    02-03-18 03:25 PM
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