02-09-18 06:46 PM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If nobody knows about your products and services you are throwing money down the toilet. What is the point of producing products and offering services. It's the same thing that's going on even now.

    Posted via CB10
    They had one chance to launch BB10 and it failed, there was no coming back from that failure.... there was managing the retreat out of the hardware business and that is what Chen did (and was probable hired in the beginning to do).
    02-05-18 11:20 AM
  2. stlabrat's Avatar
    What is a "Q?"
    just the name after spaniard fighting the wind mills (that made of iphone)...
    02-05-18 11:53 AM
  3. stlabrat's Avatar
    hope is not all lost. with 5G coming soon, and need of free of social media (or controlled social media without addiction or fake news or ads), what else would be a good start of a 3rd party OS that can be clean slate ... i am not talking about bb10, but bb15 if someone play the cards right. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/t...er=rss&emc=rss
    02-05-18 12:40 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    hope is not all lost. with 5G coming soon, and need of free of social media (or controlled social media without addiction or fake news or ads), what else would be a good start of a 3rd party OS that can be clean slate ... i am not talking about bb10, but bb15 if someone play the cards right. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/t...er=rss&emc=rss
    LOL. Why not just BB20 and they could hope the BBXX is available this go around?
    02-05-18 01:25 PM
  5. elfabio80's Avatar
    LOL. Why not just BB20 and they could hope the BBXX is available this go around?
    And I guess you will be dreaming of the Key eighty!! Lol!!

    Posted via CB10
    02-05-18 01:45 PM
  6. DonHB's Avatar
    I don't understand where you're going. We already established that the top developers were not interested in a 3rd ecosystem and didn't bother with BB10.
    What I am suggesting is that BlackBerry could have avoided the third "ecosystem" syndrome you have spoken about by using the Android API. To differentiate BB10 from the the usual Android device the Player should have been made to support the Flow UX instead of creating Cascades.

    However, once Cascades was created, when John Chen became CEO, he could have made a midcourse correction and used it to make the Player support Flow and transition the BB10 API to Android. This should have been the interim step before licensing Android from Google as an attempt to retain control of its OS offering.
    02-05-18 02:43 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    What I am suggesting is that BlackBerry could have avoided the third "ecosystem" syndrome you have spoken about by using the Android API.
    Why? Android apps worked already at the time without need for any modifications (zero developer effort).

    Your solution adds nothing more to the ecosystem problem.
    02-05-18 02:46 PM
  8. DonHB's Avatar
    Why? Android apps worked already at the time without need for any modifications (zero developer effort).

    Your solution adds nothing more to the ecosystem problem.
    Arguably, a better UX, differentiation and avoiding Google snooping. But the company didn't maintain the compatibility, unless you believe it did so by licensing GPS, but it got Google's snooping as the price.
    02-05-18 05:36 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Arguably, a better UX, differentiation and avoiding Google snooping.
    Developers DON'T CARE! They just want their apps to be in people's hands. A 3rd ecosystem was unnecessary to accomplish that.
    02-05-18 06:06 PM
  10. joeldf's Avatar
    Arguably, a better UX, differentiation and avoiding Google snooping.
    If it's the developers who are worried about Google snooping, then why have the majority of them jumped on the GPS bandwagon in the last few years? Most of them right around the time BB10 was trying to get them on board.

    Seems like you think they were looking for a way out.

    They certainly didn't have to use Play Services. Some have stayed away and are yet somehow still on the Play Store. (Meaning it apparently was never a requirement).

    Something was obviously more of an incentive for them to stay with Google (and Apple) than anything BlackBerry was offering. How was this "Flow UX" you keep bring up supposed to change that and why?

    Again, BlackBerry intended to make the transition easy for developers to port their android apps. And it was. Developers really needed almost no effort to get in BB10. And they still stayed away.
    02-05-18 07:18 PM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If it's the developers who are worried about Google snooping, then why have the majority of them jumped on the GPS bandwagon in the last few years? Most of them right around the time BB10 was trying to get them on board.

    Seems like you think they were looking for a way out.

    They certainly didn't have to use Play Services. Some have stayed away and are yet somehow still on the Play Store. (Meaning it apparently was never a requirement).

    Something was obviously more of an incentive for them to stay with Google (and Apple) than anything BlackBerry was offering. How was this "Flow UX" you keep bring up supposed to change that and why?

    Again, BlackBerry intended to make the transition easy for developers to port their android apps. And it was. Developers really needed almost no effort to get in BB10. And they still stayed away.
    I think the key word is intended, if you went back to that time... some that tried were very frustrated by BlackBerry process. Yes porting an app was easy, getting it submitted and approved was not really as easy back then.

    Never mind those developers that started out with the PlayBook, thinking that within a year the new phones would be out. PlayBook sales were not enough to matter, and the phone got delayed, delayed and delayed. There were a few developers that supported the PlayBook that got tired of waiting for a "return".

    Ultimately, BB10 flop very quickly, May the rumors were flying... by Junes finical report it was clear.
    NewbieJan2018 likes this.
    02-06-18 08:37 AM
  12. DonHB's Avatar
    There were a lot of complaints in the early days of BB10 regarding how much of the apps available on BBW were Android ports. Most were probably complaining about performance differences, but some complaints could have been because Android apps did not have the same user experience (UX) as native BB10 apps that used BB10's standard user interface called Flow.

    Flow was the UX designed by the then recently acquired The Astonishing Tribe or TAT for BB10.

    Some here think that Flow was not an improvement over Android's UI.
    02-07-18 02:34 PM
  13. DonHB's Avatar

    Ultimately, BB10 flop very quickly, May the rumors were flying... by Junes finical report it was clear.
    Perhaps, BlackBerry should have expected it to take longer to be reaccepted in the marketplace and adjusted the investments in inventory accordingly?
    02-07-18 02:43 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Perhaps, BlackBerry should have expected it to take longer to be reaccepted in the marketplace and adjusted the investments in inventory accordingly?
    They either had a contender in the smartphone race or they didn't. Yes they would have saved money by being more cautious on inventory, but that wouldn't have changed the reception of the product.
    02-07-18 03:06 PM
  15. howarmat's Avatar
    BB expected BBOS holders to flock to BB10 by the thousands and also acquire many new Android and Apple converts as well. None of that happened.
    02-07-18 03:27 PM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BB expected BBOS holders to flock to BB10 by the thousands and also acquire many new Android and Apple converts as well. None of that happened.
    Because none of what we expect got delivered.

    Kevin had a list of what they had to do right, even bet a car on them having Instagram.... he and all of use taught that the 2 years between the PlayBook and BB10 had given them time to "fill out" the OS and to work with those missing developers.

    In the end they ignored the lessons they should have learned from the PlayBook.
    02-07-18 03:41 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    but some complaints could have been because Android apps did not have the same user experience (UX)
    Not enough to come even close to mattering.
    02-07-18 04:16 PM
  18. DonHB's Avatar
    They either had a contender in the smartphone race or they didn't. Yes they would have saved money by being more cautious on inventory, but that wouldn't have changed the reception of the product.
    Or until 10.2.1 (maybe 10.2) BlackBerry could have focused on existing customers or simultaneously introduced both the Q10 & Z10 with it.
    02-08-18 11:35 AM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    Or until 10.2.1 (maybe 10.2) BlackBerry could have focused on existing customers or simultaneously introduced both the Q10 & Z10 with it.
    this was a major complaint. A company that was so successful with keyboard devices introduced a full screen and left many high and dry without the keyboard device. BB10 was a challenge to get ready for those devices though and the whole launch was already very much behind. 6 months delayed at minimum but more like a year in most people's mind. They had to launch what they had and even then it wasnt where the OS needed to be at all.

    That is the story with bb10. It never was where it needed to be at any point in time. Always late with features, apps, bugfixes. It never stood a chance
    02-08-18 12:03 PM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Or until 10.2.1 (maybe 10.2) BlackBerry could have focused on existing customers or simultaneously introduced both the Q10 & Z10 with it.

    BB10 had been delayed by two years already and enterprise customers were already starting to move to other platforms.

    They were already burning cash.

    Looking back, easy to see what went wrong, but waiting wasn't an option at that point.
    02-08-18 12:31 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BB never had any solution to BBOS. The problem was never replacing the OS. The problem was replacing a recurring income software business model and the founders knew BB10 was no solution.
    I've never read of any, realistic business model replacement. The founders never planned anything beyond unloading shares as quick as legally possible.
    02-08-18 01:23 PM
  22. S1lv1o's Avatar
    Unfortunately it's very common, Sony has done this to me several times... Let's see, Minidisc player that stopped working after three months... DAP that only works with Windows... DAP with such a bad Android it was barely usable from new... Phone that's locked by carrier. But yeah, none of this excuses Blackberry: Passport such a great phone from such a lousy company. I've had to arm twist my friends into trying another messenger app for the second time after I couldn't receive images via BBM. Next stop: cheap phone with apps that work.
    02-08-18 01:32 PM
  23. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BB never had any solution to BBOS. The problem was never replacing the OS. The problem was replacing a recurring income software business model and the founders knew BB10 was no solution.
    I've never read of any, realistic business model replacement. The founders never planned anything beyond unloading shares as quick as legally possible.
    I think they taught...

    1) They could charge a premium for hardware like Apple.
    2) That the App and Content markets would provide a stream of revenue like they do for both Apple and Google.
    3) And that Marketing would be very valuable income source to them, like it was for Google - they had ads for the apps but it's clear Channels was a major marketing tool.

    In their arrogance I think the expected to be a major player once again. And if they had succeeded and recaptured all the existing BlackBerry users, along with past ones and few new.... even if they only sold a 1/3 of the phones Apple sales (that's what they expected with those Z10 orders), that would be 100 Million phones a year, with a userbase probable close to 300/400 Million....

    But yeah, it was a dream....
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    02-08-18 02:48 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think they taught...

    1) They could charge a premium for hardware like Apple.
    2) That the App and Content markets would provide a stream of revenue like they do for both Apple and Google.
    3) And that Marketing would be very valuable income source to them, like it was for Google - they had ads for the apps but it's clear Channels was a major marketing tool.

    In their arrogance I think the expected to be a major player once again. And if they had succeeded and recaptured all the existing BlackBerry users, along with past ones and few new.... even if they only sold a 1/3 of the phones Apple sales (that's what they expected with those Z10 orders), that would be 100 Million phones a year, with a userbase probable close to 300/400 Million....

    But yeah, it was a dream....
    BB founders, insiders and executives all said that. I don't believe that BB founders, insiders or executives believed it. The amount of shares that were sold by parties that required disclosure or regulatory filings back then was pretty much the maximum legal amounts in every filing that wouldn't adversely drop share price on any given day.
    02-08-18 02:57 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BB founders, insiders and executives all said that. I don't believe that BB founders, insiders or executives believed it. The amount of shares that were sold by parties that required disclosure or regulatory filings back then was pretty much the maximum legal amounts in every filing that wouldn't adversely drop share price on any given day.
    It's why I don't trust BBMo and their "we are happy", be we can't really tell you any real numbers. BlackBerry's history is full of say one thing, while knowing in their heart (and pocket book) it wasn't possible. Even Chen did it, and I respect him much more the Mike, Jim or Thor. You simply can't tell the truth if it's bad news, as it will only make things worse.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    02-08-18 03:30 PM
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