07-03-17 10:15 AM
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  1. BBHermes's Avatar

    Virtually everything scientific is subjective, and can be dis-proven just as easily as it was proven. Just ask Stephen Hawking.
    Sophistry plus an ad hominem insult to Stephen Hawking... [satire] Yes, that really helped to move the conversation in a productive direction[/satire]

    If BigBadWulf can't make a positive contribution to the discussion, at least he should turn off the annoying bold type when posting/trolling absurdities.

    Posted via CB10
    12-22-16 02:16 PM
  2. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    As someone who runs his own small business (consultancy), works with multiple clients throughout a year (sometimes at the same time), has to juggle multiple email accounts, multiple calendar appointments too, frequent travel and chop & changes, and receives anything between 100-350 emails a day...

    ...BlackBerry productivity really makes a difference to my life.

    I've tried both iOS and Android phones & tablets and they are frustratingly nowhere near the mark. (note: I haven't yet tried any of the BlackBerry Android stuff).

    I'm hoping that whenever I have to move to a different platform after the demise of BB10, that platform will have improved it's 'productivity & flow' from the current state of the alternative platforms.

    I am my own Boss, and I do wish to keep myself as happy as possible.(I also need to keep my clients happy too, otherwise they will no longer engage my services).

    In my opinion, BB10 is also a hell of a lot more intuitive than iOS or Android (as has been proved by my techno-phobic mother who has taken nearly 18 months to become confident with her iPad - yet got her head round using a Playbook in <30 minutes).
    12-22-16 02:19 PM
  3. deremi's Avatar
    It is a myth to those who can't see the other side of other peoples point of view. It is not a myth to those who believe that their productivity is enhanced.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-22-16 02:29 PM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    It is a myth to those who can't see the other side of other peoples point of view. It is not a myth to those who believe that their productivity is enhanced.
    [Being productive with Android/iOS] is a myth to those who can't see the other side of other peoples point of view. It is not a myth to those who believe that their productivity is enhanced.
    12-22-16 02:37 PM
  5. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    It's like sex without a condom
    Of course there's haptic force-feedback for VKBs but it's just not the same as the real thing
    Attachment 414716
    I get just as much enjoyment on a VKB, and the feedback need only be seeing the characters arriving on the screen, as I touch type, just as I did on a PKB. Most of the planet has realized this, which is why PKB attracts few buyers.

    Sophistry plus an ad hominem insult to Stephen Hawking... [satire] Yes, that really helped to move the conversation in a productive direction[/satire]

    If BigBadWulf can't make a positive contribution to the discussion, at least he should turn off the annoying bold type when posting/trolling absurdities.

    Posted via CB10
    World: Physicist Hawking Concedes Error In Famous Black Hole Theory
    Whatever
    Laura Knotek and Fret Madden like this.
    12-22-16 02:43 PM
  6. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    I get just as much enjoyment on a VKB
    I believe you cuz you're the one experiencing that pleasure. I'm not jealous though
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-22-16 02:47 PM
  7. KemKev's Avatar
    See that is the thing. Its all a personal preference thing. For you those are more productive on your BB10 phone perhaps but again that is just you. Others might find file management better on android. Maybe even an email app with even more features. I like swipe style keyboards and bb10 keyboard lacks that feature so for me I wasn't more efficient with bb10 keyboard. Thats why this type of discussion really has no one answer, its all just personal preference.
    That's it right there!
    Laura Knotek and BigBadWulf like this.
    12-22-16 02:53 PM
  8. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    preferences and needs are not the same thing: I believe it's more a matter of needs.
    Like someone prefers an apple over a blackberry and has the right to do so but what you actually need is food

    If you're not human let's say you're an Android, you don't care about apples and blackberries. What you need is energy

    If you're not a human or not an android but just a simple object called a Window, you just need to be fixed somewhere lololol

    I'm just messing around but seriously, it's more about your needs that need to be met to be productive. Now if two devices meet your needs, then your preferences will help you choose.
    It's actually funny how people need gaming on their smartphone isn't that counter-productive

    Anyways we can objectively say that people who pick an Android or an iOS device have MORE NEEDS than people who pick a BlackBerry. Some of their needs are questionable such as gaming in terms of productivity but there's also social networks that are involved sometimes for business that are double-edged swords (Twitter/Instagram/Facebook/YouNameIt) in the sense that they can be counter-productive as well

    Matter of fact both gaming and social networking can be an addiction for some...
    Last edited by BlackBerry of Doom; 12-22-16 at 04:24 PM.
    nabeel-bb-user likes this.
    12-22-16 03:02 PM
  9. BBHermes's Avatar
    The content of the link provides no evidence whatsoever for your original pejorative claim about science and objectivity. None. Zero. No amount of dismissive "whatever's" can change that.

    Posted via CB10
    12-22-16 04:30 PM
  10. Fret Madden's Avatar
    The content of the link provides no evidence whatsoever for your original pejorative claim about science and objectivity. None. Zero. No amount of dismissive "whatever's" can change that.

    Posted via CB10
    Objective wasn't the word used. Replace with the correct word from his post which was "subjective".
    BigBadWulf and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-22-16 04:48 PM
  11. deremi's Avatar
    [Being productive with Android/iOS] is a myth to those who can't see the other side of other peoples point of view. It is not a myth to those who believe that their productivity is enhanced.
    It goes both ways. But if an individual, use both extensively and conclude one way or the other then it is not a myth to them.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-22-16 04:57 PM
  12. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    I'll admit that BB10 doomsday is coming and when it will hit us we'll be less productive but most BB10 devices support 4G & LTE so in terms of calls, we're still good for a couple of years. SMS & e-mailing protocols COULD change one day it's not impossible but we still have some time. Yeah we lack games and social networking apps but they aren't a MUST FOR EVERYONE to be productive
    12-22-16 04:59 PM
  13. BBHermes's Avatar
    Objective wasn't the word used. Replace with the correct word from his post which was "subjective".
    As thinkers from Aristotle to Hawking understand well, contrary opposites fall under the same category. Objectivity qua category of investigation includes the properties objective and subjective.

    A false and unsubstantiated claim was made about the relationship between science and objectivity. That said, changing 'objectivity' to 'subjective' makes no difference to the point.

    Anyway, this is all a distraction from the original question of 'productivity', a vague word with many senses. Again, the value of the discussion is, in part, i) a function of precisely fixing the sense or senses in which 'productive' is being used, and ii) fixing the objective benchmarks by which to compare and contrast how different devices and their users can potentially and actually meet the criteria of the intended sense(s) of 'productive'.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by BBHermes; 12-22-16 at 06:12 PM.
    jefbeard911 and dmlis like this.
    12-22-16 05:51 PM
  14. luigieagle's Avatar
    Well, I think there is no myth about OS10 is more productive and I'm going to explain why. I think that all depends of your needs. For me, as a publisher OS10 is the best OS I can get in a phone. When I had my Q10 i thought it would be a good idea getting an iPhone, so I got the iPhone 5 and put my Q10 on sale; first day with my iPhone I got and email from an author asking me for his manuscript, so as I use to do with my Q10 (reply the email, attach the manuscript and send it) I tried to attach the file and the only options I had with the iPhone was attaching pictures, but no other kind of files. At the end, I had to turn my Q10 on again and do everything there.
    I tried the Priv but didn't work for me. Now I have a Pixel (android) and 2 Blackberry (Passport SE and Classic) and I can say at least for me and my specific job, nothing compares in productivity to Blackberry OS10
    12-22-16 05:54 PM
  15. TheBirdDog's Avatar

    ...

    I'm going back to my Americano, feet up, next to my beautiful wife, streaming Spotify , ignoring emails and watching Netflix on my well-used webOS Thinkpad.

    ...
    Clearly, you have a different perspective on 'multi-tasking' than I do.
    jefbeard911 and BigBadWulf like this.
    12-22-16 06:21 PM
  16. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    2 Blackberry (Passport SE and Classic)
    luigieagle likes this.
    12-22-16 06:45 PM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Clearly, you have a different perspective on 'multi-tasking' than I do.
    I like his definition.
    12-22-16 07:12 PM
  18. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    The content of the link provides no evidence whatsoever for your original pejorative claim about science and objectivity. None. Zero. No amount of dismissive "whatever's" can change that.

    Posted via CB10
    Not sure why you've taken such offense, but you clearly missed my entire point. I used Stephen Hawking as a prime example, since he's spent most of his life disproving his own science. Theories that have been roundly acclaimed as the end all, be all. I have the utmost admiration for him and his work.

    You can find examples in every field of science, almost every day in the news. Something known as "fact" suddenly turned on its head. Science is completely subjective. The more we learn, the more we learn how little we know, and new facts are formed. The claim that virtually anything is "settled science", should be taken with great suspicion.

    There is no way to measure productivity objectively. It's in the eye of the beholder, based on their needs and methods. The OP presented a proposal tongue in cheek, they knew was impossible, and wrote it out in a most eloquent way. I commend them for creating such entertainment, and inspiring an amazing amount of serious conversation via satire.
    12-22-16 09:02 PM
  19. mh1983's Avatar
    who cares to use a physical keyboard? this is 2016....
    Who cares ABOUT?

    And what difference does the year make?

    Posted via CB10
    12-22-16 09:40 PM
  20. Alecsandrv's Avatar
    Fret Madden likes this.
    12-22-16 09:48 PM
  21. BBHermes's Avatar
    The view that science is completely objective is an extreme view, and is false. See e.g., Kuhn's book on the nature of scientific revolutions, in addition to some of your own points.

    But your claim that "science is completely subjective" is also an extreme view, does not follow from the first point, and is false. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is the danger here; we end up with the skepticism of the ancient Sophists whom Socrates and Plato fought so diligently (and from whom the word 'sophistry' derives).

    Given an hypothesis, proving that hypothesis incorrect does not demonstrate that previously holding that hypothesis to be true is merely, let alone completely, subjective. Nor does establishing that hypothesis to be correct demonstrate that someone else holding the hypothesis to be true is being objective in doing so.

    The swings of holding and discarding scientific hypothesis or theory are part and parcel of an objective struggle to approach correspondence with objective fact. Yes, humans are fallible, and science is a human enterprise, so the subjective element is always there in some shape or form. But the objective struggle to achieve correspondence with fact is also part of the human condition.

    In reasonable senses of 'productive': If one needs to travel across the Atlantic frequently for work, it would be more productive to go by plane than by boat - all else being equal. That's objective fact. The question about phones can be framed the same way: The case of phone productivity can be seen as a difference of degree, not a difference in kind. So productivity has an objective aspect that cannot be denied. But, again, the frame has to be defined.

    With respect to a field of investigation: Failure to make definitions and criteria clear creates a false aura of "complete subjectivity". Then the conversation devolves into silliness and banality. The fallacy of ambiguity is one of the most insidious of fallacies

    As for offense, your original reply came across as mocking, dogmatic, and sophistical. Thanks for clarifying, anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    12-23-16 01:18 AM
  22. Fret Madden's Avatar
    The view that science is completely objective is an extreme view, and is false. See e.g., Kuhn's book on the nature of scientific revolutions, in addition to some of your own points.

    But your claim that "science is completely subjective" is also an extreme view, does not follow from the first point, and is false. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is the danger here; we end up with the skepticism of the ancient Sophists whom Socrates and Plato fought so diligently (and from whom the word 'sophistry' derives).

    Given an hypothesis, proving that hypothesis incorrect does not demonstrate that previously holding that hypothesis to be true is merely, let alone completely, subjective. Nor does establishing that hypothesis to be correct demonstrate that someone else holding the hypothesis to be true is being objective in doing so.

    The swings of holding and discarding scientific hypothesis or theory are part and parcel of an objective struggle to approach correspondence with objective fact. Yes, humans are fallible, and science is a human enterprise, so the subjective element is always there in some shape or form. But the objective struggle to achieve correspondence with fact is also part of the human condition.

    In reasonable senses of 'productive': If one needs to travel across the Atlantic frequently for work, it would be more productive to go by plane than by boat - all else being equal. That's objective fact. The question about phones can be framed the same way: The case of phone productivity can be seen as a difference of degree, not a difference in kind. So productivity has an objective aspect that cannot be denied. But, again, the frame has to be defined.

    With respect to a field of investigation: Failure to make definitions and criteria clear creates a false aura of "complete subjectivity". Then the conversation devolves into silliness and banality. The fallacy of ambiguity is one of the most insidious of fallacies

    As for offense, your original reply came across as mocking, dogmatic, and sophistical. Thanks for clarifying, anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    Thanks for reiterating what he and howarmat already said.
    12-23-16 01:19 AM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    By the way, "communication" means different things to different people.
    12-23-16 05:33 AM
  24. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    We're breaking down a lot of terms in this thread
    -productivity
    -communication
    -preferences
    -needs
    -objective
    -subjective
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-23-16 05:42 AM
  25. leeiling's Avatar
    I haven't read all the posts.
    Productivity isn't a myth. It takes longer to get my tasks done on an iPad than on my Passport. And that's it for me. I will get an iPhone eventually, along with my primary device, Passport. iPhone really does so good work when it comes to apps, and apps do bring some convenience, but I don't want to use iPhone to take care of my email and to-do-list. I simply like the way BlackBerry Passport handles it. It is not about being productive, nor is it about productivity, and I am not being delusional. I do get things done faster, way faster on my Passport than on an iPad.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry of Doom likes this.
    12-23-16 05:49 AM
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