07-03-17 10:15 AM
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  1. jefbeard911's Avatar
    On 2 & 3 we're in complete agreement, but on 1 I'll give you a productive, subjective example. You just had an incredible interview for a highly sought after job. It's something you've dreamed of. Do you knock out a quick email of thanks, which takes all of one minute on your Passport, or put pen to paper, stuff it in an envelope, lick a stamp and mail that baby out? Of course the person you send it to may or may not appreciate the hand written note more, and they may make a decision before receiving it. It's all subjective which is more productive.

    Point taken. I concede.



    Sent from my awesome BlackBerry Passport
    12-22-16 12:54 AM
  2. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Point taken. I concede.



    Sent from my awesome BlackBerry Passport
    Dang it! That isn't productive for the site. Come back and fight like a fanboi!!!

    12-22-16 12:57 AM
  3. kosten4's Avatar
    On 2 & 3 we're in complete agreement, but on 1 I'll give you a productive, subjective example. You just had an incredible interview for a highly sought after job. It's something you've dreamed of. Do you knock out a quick email of thanks, which takes all of one minute on your Passport, or put pen to paper, stuff it in an envelope, lick a stamp and mail that baby out? Of course the person you send it to may or may not appreciate the hand written note more, and they may make a decision before receiving it. It's all subjective which is more productive.
    This is not subjective. This is using the word subjectively.
    These are two methods of doing the job, while we're talking about doing the job the same way for more optimised time and effort - like shooting an email with 35 attachments on bb10 and ios. We can all bet that doing that simple task/simple for bb10 / will be way much more productive using a bb10 device.

    Posted via CB10
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-22-16 03:55 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    -Let's take the cheapest BB10 device: a Q5, in this review it says "callers sound clear & detailed"
    -Let's take the Classic, in this review it says "Not only did the calls sound extremely clear, but people on the other end said I sounded like I was calling from a landline."
    -Let's take the Passport, in this review it says that "call quality is INSANE"

    so yeah...I believe call quality is superior with BlackBerry
    Alrighty then...
    Mecca EL and nabeel-bb-user like this.
    12-22-16 04:55 AM
  5. jefbeard911's Avatar
    -Let's take the cheapest BB10 device: a Q5, in this review it says "callers sound clear & detailed"
    -Let's take the Classic, in this review it says "Not only did the calls sound extremely clear, but people on the other end said I sounded like I was calling from a landline."
    -Let's take the Passport, in this review it says that "call quality is INSANE"

    so yeah...I believe call quality is superior with BlackBerry
    Rereading 3 different reviews to make a minor point doesn't seem to be a productive use of time.

    Sent from my awesome BlackBerry Passport
    12-22-16 05:44 AM
  6. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    Let's get down to the nitty-gritty: Your phone is to communicate.
    Now here's the challenge: try to prove how you can communicate more efficiently with an iPhone/Android/Windows phone VS a BlackBerry and you win!

    BlackBerry is already recognized for EXCELLENT call quality and that's not my opinion but a FACT

    The Blackberry Productivity Myth-2016-12-22-064858_764x486_scrot.png

    Besides talking on the phone, I believe you communicate through text/e-mails/video chat

    Sending texts and e-mails with a BlackBerry has never been an issue AFAIK
    Wanna video chat? BBM is waiting for you with open arms
    Last edited by BlackBerry of Doom; 12-22-16 at 06:49 AM.
    12-22-16 05:59 AM
  7. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    -Let's take the cheapest BB10 device: a Q5, in this review it says "callers sound clear & detailed"
    -Let's take the Classic, in this review it says "Not only did the calls sound extremely clear, but people on the other end said I sounded like I was calling from a landline."
    -Let's take the Passport, in this review it says that "call quality is INSANE"

    so yeah...I believe call quality is superior with BlackBerry
    Those reviews are all at least 2 years old. Many phones didn't have VoLTE in 2014. They pretty much don't compare call quality to any other model of phone. And they're also all written very subjectively, and don't provide any actual measurable tests of call quality.

    So yeah, believe all you want, you still haven't proven your case.

    Let's get down to the nitty-gritty: Your phone is to communicate.
    Now here's the challenge: try to prove how you can communicate more efficiently with an iPhone/Android/Windows phone VS a BlackBerry and you win!

    BlackBerry is already recognized for EXCELLENT call quality and that's not my opinion but a FACT
    Once again, you have shown nothing. Your assertions are unproven. You are convincing nobody.

    Besides talking on the phone, I believe you communicate through text/e-mails/video chat

    Sending texts and e-mails with a BlackBerry has never been an issue AFAIK
    Wanna video chat? BBM is waiting for you with open arms
    All the platforms can do these things. In fact, video chat is easier and better on other platforms.
    jaydee5799 and BigBadWulf like this.
    12-22-16 08:19 AM
  8. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    2. You're reading way too much into this. If we need a dictionary to define what's subjective vs. Objective we've already lost. It takes me 1 minute to go from taking a picture on my Android phone to being able to see and edit it on my laptop (Google Photos) vs. 15+ minutes on my Passport (auto upload to MEGA because Dropbox and OneDrive don't autoupload reliably from the Passport), then upload from MEGA to GooglePhotos. -This IS NOT productive.
    I can shoot, edit, and publish a photo on my phone without even leaving Lightroom
    12-22-16 08:20 AM
  9. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Let's get down to the nitty-gritty: Your phone is to communicate.
    Now here's the challenge: try to prove how you can communicate more efficiently with an iPhone/Android/Windows phone VS a BlackBerry and you win!

    BlackBerry is already recognized for EXCELLENT call quality and that's not my opinion but a FACT

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Besides talking on the phone, I believe you communicate through text/e-mails/video chat

    Sending texts and e-mails with a BlackBerry has never been an issue AFAIK
    Wanna video chat? BBM is waiting for you with open arms
    Textbook example of a subjective thought.
    12-22-16 08:20 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Let's get down to the nitty-gritty: Your phone is to communicate.
    Now here's the challenge: try to prove how you can communicate more efficiently with an iPhone/Android/Windows phone VS a BlackBerry and you win!

    BlackBerry is already recognized for EXCELLENT call quality and that's not my opinion but a FACT

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-12-22-064858_764x486_scrot.png 
Views:	353 
Size:	567.7 KB 
ID:	414701

    Besides talking on the phone, I believe you communicate through text/e-mails/video chat

    Sending texts and e-mails with a BlackBerry has never been an issue AFAIK
    Wanna video chat? BBM is waiting for you with open arms
    Video Chat using BBM.... to who? NO ONE I know uses BBM, it might be a great tool - but it's like having a Laser Disk collection without a working player...

    Sending texts and emails... I have an Android, and have found no issues sending emails with attachments. My wife has an iPhone and sends out emails all the time... with no complaints. Ten years ago BlackBerry had an edge, be we aren't living in the past are we? Besides, most of us today that need to add 35 attachments to an email... will use dropbox.

    Sorry but today all Android and BlackBerry hardware is the same.... sadly for the last year so is the software. I just don't believe that BlackBerry has the same "call quality" advantage they once had. My new Droid works in a number of places my Z10 use to drop calls.....
    12-22-16 08:35 AM
  11. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    Alright let's say all phones are equal in terms of call quality

    What is left to communicate?Texts/E-mails/Video Chat

    Let's say Hangouts & Facetime are as good as BBM for video chats even if people used to love imo and now use WhatsApp for this...

    What is left? Texts & E-mails

    Now let's talk. Is it subjective or is it a fact when BlackBerry claims that your typing is 4 times more accurate on a physical keyboard? How did they measure that?

    Here's a new challenge: name me a competitor that do better physical keyboards than BlackBerry
    Last edited by BlackBerry of Doom; 12-22-16 at 09:04 AM.
    12-22-16 08:54 AM
  12. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    -The difference with a BB is that the call quality is SUPERIOR to other cell phones because it's close to the quality of a landline phone.

    Actually "landline quality" sets the bar fairly low.
    The public switched telephone network has a frequency response of ~3.5kHz using G711.
    Many/most smartphones are now capable of and designed for frequency response far beyond "landline quality".


    Here is a test to try.


    Using your BB10 smartphone call your friend's BB10 smartphone via the PSTN.
    Have a conversation and note the quality.


    Call them back using BBM
    Have a conversation and note the quality.


    Your smartphone can't make the PSTN better.
    I believe I have just refuted the core tenant of your argument.


    Do you agree?
    If not, what don't you agree with?
    12-22-16 09:06 AM
  13. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    Actually "landline quality" sets the bar fairly low.
    The public switched telephone network has a frequency response of ~3.5kHz using G711.
    Many/most smartphones are now capable of and designed for frequency response far beyond "landline quality".


    Here is a test to try.


    Using your BB10 smartphone call your friend's BB10 smartphone via the PSTN.
    Have a conversation and note the quality.


    Call them back using BBM
    Have a conversation and note the quality.


    Your smartphone can't make the PSTN better.
    I believe I have just refuted the core tenant of your argument.


    Do you agree?
    If not, what don't you agree with?
    I agree and I'm done with call quality
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-22-16 09:11 AM
  14. jefbeard911's Avatar
    Alright let's say all phones are equal in terms of call quality

    What is left to communicate?Texts/E-mails/Video Chat

    Let's say Hangouts & Facetime are as good as BBM for video chats even if people used to love imo and now use WhatsApp for this...

    What is left? Texts & E-mails

    Now let's talk. Is it subjective or is it a fact when BlackBerry claims that your typing is 4 times more accurate on a physical keyboard? How did they measure that?
    You're making that same assumption that Blackberry did as they saw their market share go from 20% to <1% - and that is a phone is only to communicate. It is not. It's for a hundred other things now as well. It's called a smartphone for a reason. People use it to take photos & they expect those photos to turn out nice and be automatically backed up to a cloud service, they write notes to themselves, play games, watch movies, listen to music. Apple saw this coming and its why the iphone did so well and Blackberry did not. Blackberry wanted to continue to make the best e-mail machine on the planet, and they did. But the world have moved on.

    So being productive on your smartphone is not just how quickly you can type a message, attach a photo, and sent it. It's being able to do the things that eveyone wants and needs to do on a smartphone in the 21st century. I really could care less if I can attach a document in 1 step or 5. But I DO care that my baby photos I just took are reliably backed up and available on my laptop momentarily without having to connect the phone to it.

    Maybe there are people out there that just want the best e-mail and text message machine you can buy, but I require more. I want the Smart part of the smartphone. I love my Passport. But it limits me, or slows me down, in what I can do as compared to my Android phone (which is a low-end, $100 Moto G). Am I gonna stop using my Passport? No, I like the hardware, the OS, and the screen size - But in many areas I pay a price for continuing to use it.
    Last edited by jefbeard911; 12-22-16 at 09:24 AM.
    BigBadWulf and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    12-22-16 09:13 AM
  15. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    So being productive on your smartphone is not just how quickly you can type a message, attach a photo, and sent it. It's being able to do the things that eveyone wants and needs to do on a smartphone in the 21st century.
    Ah well, I'm not of this century
    I'm a classic man
    jefbeard911 likes this.
    12-22-16 09:19 AM
  16. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    I'm still shocked when I see all the things the smartphone replaced. Maybe I'm too old but yeah I primarily use my BlackBerry Classic to communicate and not to replace all these:
    The Blackberry Productivity Myth-smart_phone_replacements_large.jpg

    Something else is pressing my heart. It's easier than ever to communicate with people nowadays but people aren't necessarily getting closer to each others
    12-22-16 09:38 AM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Now let's talk. Is it subjective or is it a fact when BlackBerry claims that your typing is 4 times more accurate on a physical keyboard? How did they measure that?
    You didn't just move the goal posts, you have moved the entire field.
    And you punted the burden of proof.

    Here's a new challenge: name me a competitor that do better physical keyboards than BlackBerry
    I concede that they own the physical keyboard market, tiny as it is.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-22-16 09:43 AM
  18. kosten4's Avatar
    Video Chat using BBM.... to who? NO ONE I know uses BBM, it might be a great tool - but it's like having a Laser Disk collection without a working player...
    We are talking about OS capabilities, not if someone are using it or not. And also what can be achieved with the OS's build-in functions, not what you can get with a tones of apps, which, though will slow down the phone's performance.

    Sending texts and emails... I have an Android, and have found no issues sending emails with attachments. My wife has an iPhone and sends out emails all the time... with no complaints. Ten years ago BlackBerry had an edge, be we aren't living in the past are we? Besides, most of us today that need to add 35 attachments to an email... will use dropbox.
    I don't know the whole story here, but normally giving a personal case as an example is not always an obvious fact. What is a fact that you can't attach multiple attachments, you can't get your email organised properly, cause the phone is mixing all the replies and new messages up, for instance you got an email and reply to it, then you have a reply from the other side, you end up with you reply quoted twice for some hanky reason. Now imagine if you have long conversation with that client/customer/mate. You end up with a mess... The option is to switch of combining same messages in a tread but then it will be a nightmare scrolling down all these emails.

    Sorry but today all Android and BlackBerry hardware is the same.... sadly for the last year so is the software. I just don't believe that BlackBerry has the same "call quality" advantage they once had. My new Droid works in a number of places my Z10 use to drop calls.....
    You're aware that this is a result of your carrier services, not the particular device, right?



    Posted via CB10
    12-22-16 09:55 AM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    We are talking about OS capabilities, not if someone are using it or not. And also what can be achieved with the OS's build-in functions, not what you can get with a tones of apps, which, though will slow down the phone's performance.
    Facetime is built into most all iOS devices, for me Facetime would reach probable 70% of my circle of friends and family. It is the main downfall for my DROID, and for my Z10.

    FYI... built-in functions slow down the phone's performance too. Why do you think BB10 needs 2GB of RAM to even function? If only BBM and the RUNTIME were optional components....

    I don't know the whole story here, but normally giving a personal case as an example is not always an obvious fact. What is a fact that you can't attach multiple attachments, you can't get your email organised properly, cause the phone is mixing all the replies and new messages up, for instance you got an email and reply to it, then you have a reply from the other side, you end up with you reply quoted twice for some hanky reason. Now imagine if you have long conversation with that client/customer/mate. You end up with a mess... The option is to switch of combining same messages in a tread but then it will be a nightmare scrolling down all these emails.
    Very clear you don't know much about how either Android or iOS email apps work..... there are setting to turn off showing sent emails. Where are you getting that you can't attach multiple files?

    You're aware that this is a result of your carrier services, not the particular device, right?
    Didn't change carrier's, just phones. Whatever the reason, my DROID doesn't drop calls in a couple of spots on my commute to work... where my Z10 sometimes would. I think that the key is that I'm using a three year newer device with better hardware. That seems to be able to stay connected to LTE much better. Maybe if BlackBerry had actually made an updated phone... it would have improved upon my Z10 (Q5, Q10, Classic and LEAPs) capabilities too. (might be a difference in CDMA and GSM... but I need Verizon's coverage, so it really doesn't matter to me - especially as LTE is the future)
    12-22-16 11:03 AM
  20. crucial bbq's Avatar
    You're making that same assumption that Blackberry did as they saw their market share go from 20% to <1% - and that is a phone is only to communicate. It is not. It's for a hundred other things now as well. It's called a smartphone for a reason. People use it to take photos & they expect those photos to turn out nice and be automatically backed up to a cloud service, they write notes to themselves, play games, watch movies, listen to music. Apple saw this coming and its why the iphone did so well and Blackberry did not. Blackberry wanted to continue to make the best e-mail machine on the planet, and they did. But the world have moved on.
    Corporate users, Government employees, professionals, and so on still live and die by email. This is in part because emails are archived whether *you* archive them or not yourself and in parts because email is universal and professional. Why people believe that BlackBerries are also meant for consumer consumption is beyond me but it should be no surprise why they tout email as a "must have" feature.

    How iPhone became so popular (really only in the U.S. and a few select markets elsewhere) is long-winded for this thread. To keep it brief, Apple made it real easy for anyone, literally anyone, to build apps for iOS--which was something they have been doing with OSX for a few years prior. That is, they were shipping developer tools, XCode for free with each copy of OSX then for awhile the developer tools for iOS where also included. Now, both are free downloads. What is also free is their entire library of documentation, tutorials, etc. To understand what I am getting at, there are two (actually more) separate types of Apple fan (Mac only, iOS only, Apple everything, etc.) but I say two because there are those who are more hardcore in the sense they hangout on Apple's own "support forums", and there are those who hang out at iMore. Severely two different types of fan. Those on the official Apple forums are more akin to what you'd find over at XDA: hobbyist, tinkerers, those who actually use Terminal, those who actually take the time to find work-arounds, and those who find bugs and offer solutions to Apple. Those on iMore just wanna look cool and find an app for that.

    Anyways, point being that back in the day, when Macs were still on RISC, Apple relied heavily on these hobbyist coders to build apps for a platform that was largely ignored by mainstream devs outside of Adobe and Microsoft. Apple had continued with this strategy for iOS and it paid off, big time. Android/Google did the same thing. Not did BlackBerry not do this, they also made it difficult for those who wanted to dev apps for them. Go figure. It should also be noted that Apple makes their money through iTunes and App Store, not necessarily through iPhones and iPads and those one or iPods that some still buy. They definitely make no money from sales of Apple TV or the iWatch and Macs in general bring in little money, too. That is exactly why these products cost so much (namely Macs). Early on, Apple opened iTunes to Windows users. Also, when iPhone was a three-year AT&T exclusive here in the U.S., they introduced the iPad Touch--an iPhone without telephony. That's brilliance, if you asked me, and another tactic that had obvious pay-backs for Apple.

    My guess is that as long as BlackBerry continues to license their "phones", as long as they continue to build a mobile OS and other smartphone solutions, their focus will remain with enterprise/Government/the professional and as such, will continue to flaunt productivity.

    By the way, Microsoft advertised WinPhone was a productivity tool, too. Interesting that two smartphone manufacturers that went this route are the two with lowest sales. To Microsoft's credit, they had assumed incorrectly that those who are on Windows PCs at work and home would naturally want to use a phone of the same ecosystem, but it was logical assumption to have made. Now, they are aiming to advertise WinPhone (likely Surface Phone) as a device for work and play. The productivity angle did not sell (as it also did not for BlackBerry) and now they are going to market it as an entertainment device as well? Doesn't matter, though, because a Surface Phone is likely going to be a big seller, at least here in the U.S.

    So being productive on your smartphone is not just how quickly you can type a message, attach a photo, and sent it. It's being able to do the things that eveyone wants and needs to do on a smartphone in the 21st century. I really could care less if I can attach a document in 1 step or 5. But I DO care that my baby photos I just took are reliably backed up and available on my laptop momentarily without having to connect the phone to it.
    This is an excellent example of productivity for the rest of us. However, strategically speaking, being able to send and attachment in one step could mean the difference between being hired/fired, making a multi-million dollar deal or losing it, and so on.

    For me, the productivity of BB10 is found in not only how easy it is to read, edit, and send documents (including PDFs), but in also how this (and others) is baked into the OS. In short, there's no need for third party apps. Once again this is proof that BlackBerrys are not meant for consumers.

    Maybe there are people out there that just want the best e-mail and text message machine you can buy, but I require more. I want the Smart part of the smartphone. I love my Passport. But it limits me, or slows me down, in what I can do as compared to my Android phone (which is a low-end, $100 Moto G). Am I gonna stop using my Passport? No, I like the hardware, the OS, and the screen size - But in many areas I pay a price for continuing to use it.
    I am on that best-emailing machine boat and to be frank my PRIV with Hub is pretty darn good for that. I was a BB10 diehard, and BBOS diehard before that. In my opinion, BBOS is superior to BB10. I had owned two Android handsets prior to my Z10 and in addition to my Curve and Bold 9910(?), but swore off Android when I got my Z10. However, now with my PRIV I find it be even more productive than my Z10 but admitting to it it is largely because of Hub+ and because my setup and usage are meant to mimic what I was doing on my Z10.

    With all the new features now in iOS, I know I could go there and be just as productive. Same with WinPhone. Same with a Classic. I don't think BlackBerry's claim to productivity is a myth if you view it from the confines of their intended users.
    12-22-16 11:26 AM
  21. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    BlackBerry:
    The Blackberry Productivity Myth-2016-12-22-112804_621x474_scrot.png
    Android/iOS:
    The Blackberry Productivity Myth-2016-12-22-112950_654x412_scrot.png
    Windows Phone:
    The Blackberry Productivity Myth-swiss-army-knife-red-opened_17-920122536.jpg
    Which is more productive depends on your needs
    Last edited by BlackBerry of Doom; 12-22-16 at 12:13 PM.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and chain13 like this.
    12-22-16 11:41 AM
  22. kosten4's Avatar
    Very clear you don't know much about how either Android or iOS email apps work..... there are setting to turn off showing sent emails. Where are you getting that you can't attach multiple files?
    I'm not talking about showing them in the email app, I was referring to replying and quoting all the previous messages. And it's getting better if they decide to hit reply only button, not reply all one.
    I was using an iPhone 6s, that's from. And I've read every possible tread on Internet, without a third party app.


    Posted via CB10
    12-22-16 12:41 PM
  23. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Why are you holding back? Tell us how you really feel!

    Posted using a Q10, 10.3.2.2474.
    Shocking!
    12-22-16 01:27 PM
  24. jaydee5799's Avatar
    Alright let's say all phones are equal in terms of call quality

    What is left to communicate?Texts/E-mails/Video Chat

    Let's say Hangouts & Facetime are as good as BBM for video chats even if people used to love imo and now use WhatsApp for this...

    What is left? Texts & E-mails

    Now let's talk. Is it subjective or is it a fact when BlackBerry claims that your typing is 4 times more accurate on a physical keyboard? How did they measure that?

    Here's a new challenge: name me a competitor that do better physical keyboards than BlackBerry
    who cares to use a physical keyboard? this is 2016....
    12-22-16 01:34 PM
  25. BlackBerry of Doom's Avatar
    who cares to use a physical keyboard? this is 2016....
    It's like sex without a condom
    Of course there's haptic force-feedback for VKBs but it's just not the same as the real thing
    The Blackberry Productivity Myth-blackberry-classic-blackberry-passport-devices_0.jpg
    Last edited by BlackBerry of Doom; 12-22-16 at 01:56 PM.
    12-22-16 01:46 PM
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