[anon9133023]

Now the Xperia Neo is also a rectangle, but at least it manages to pull of some uniqueness, style, and ergonomics in the process. It also wasn't enormous like almost all phones are today.

Attachment 347844

So it's about your nuanced senses. Your rectangle is unique, stylish, ergonomically epic - but everyone else has a rectangle that is woefully inadequate.


We just answered all of our questions re: you.

[conite]

I am a programmer and I do understand the level of complexity.
Everyone with a clue learned from the windows registry disaster, just most chose to selectively ignore what they knew.
If you engineer a system that allows chaos don't be surprised when you get chaos.

Chaos is completely unavoidable in a complex system. BB10, Android, iOS, Mac OS, and Windows are all chaotic systems. That's just a fact. It's a matter of trying to manage it using finite resources.

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[DrBoomBotz]

Chaos is completely unavoidable in a complex system. BB10, Android, iOS, Mac OS, and Windows are all chaotic systems. That's just a fact. It's a matter of trying to manage it using finite resources.

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Chaos in not manageable but complexity is.
One of the best ways to manage complexity is to limit it.
Do not give user space things that they don't need because it is very hard to take them away after they have been given.
Have well defined api's etc... I don't mean to insult you but I don't know where you are coming from.

[Tatwi]

So it's about your nuanced senses. Your rectangle is unique, stylish, ergonomically epic - but everyone else has a rectangle that is woefully inadequate.


We just answered all of our questions re: you.

Troll some more there guy.

If you can't see how the Xperia Neo is different from, say, the BlackBerry Leap, then you're either blind or choosing to be ignorant.

[conite]

Chaos in not manageable but complexity is.
One of the best ways to manage complexity is to limit it.
Do not give user space things that they don't need because it is very hard to take them away after they have been given.
Have well defined api's etc... I don't mean to insult you but I don't know where you are coming from.

The proof is in the pudding. No one in the OS space (on any platform) has been able to do what you claim is doable.

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[po10chill]

No Idea, about that. Im just speaking from experience using other phones that was usually the case. If thats what they said that about QNX I hope its something else with his Z10 thats making it laggy. However personally I wouldn't expect to have a phone for more than 3 years that works flawlessly still on the newest OS update. If it did/does it would surpass my expectations.

[andrei27]

Agree with the OP. BlackBerry will loose its core fan base with these glitches.

Contacts are a mess on Z30 also (if one is syncing with a Gmail acc and with Outlook). They disappear, un-link, duplicate, etc. It's like having a gnome in the phone who likes to mess around with the contacts.

So much for a "business phone".

[D3C0D3R]

Agree with the OP. BlackBerry will loose its core fan base with these glitches.

Contacts are a mess on Z30 also (if one is syncing with a Gmail acc and with Outlook). They disappear, un-link, duplicate, etc. It's like having a gnome in the phone who likes to mess around with the contacts.

So much for a "business phone".

Just curious, if you're mainly a business user, why do you have it syncing your gmail contacts? Why not just sync only the one source of contacts?

It's an easy fix and most are just too lazy to make that one-time fix of moving all contacts to one address book (I know this as fact, as I'm a perfect example, as are my colleagues and family).

Back to the fight of the last couple pages,
Thank you Conite.

To those who thought I was saying files become corrupt, I apologize. I'm not insinuating that files themselves become corrupt because like you've said, they are verified and it's a normal process. It comes down to the device's state, etc.

On the topic of syncing emails + contacts and the settling OS affecting the battery, I don't even understand your point. It's not that it waits a week to start doing things, it's that it can take up to a week for it to finish downloading everything and archiving it as such...

Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2708

[albertinik]

+1

Wow!
I call user error on some of these things!
I don't have half these issues. I think you need a reload of your OS.

Battery life sucks for Z10 especially if you have android apps. Don't tell me to blame android app or os coz it runs well on android phone that I have and also doesn't eat up that much battery REALLY? You do realize that the android runtime of this phone is meant to run apps and is not the same an an Android OS???? How can you compare the two? Want flawless android apps? get an android!

I have never had contacts duplication, lagging phone app, slow boot up times, slow assistant or low visibilty or brightness.

What the hell is happening with your phone?
Reload the OS

Powerfully Encrypted with my Z10

[albertinik]

You can bet he is

I think you underestimate the level of complexity. I don't think any system can achieve 5 nines, let alone something as complicated as this.

If you're a programmer, then you must be a heck of a lot better than me.

Cheers.

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Powerfully Encrypted with my Z10

[albertinik]

I think you have a good dealer. If that's the case then you have to introduce me to him and the gnome.

That happens when you first restore contacts from back up and the sync your accs.

Get contact x to merge or just simple eliminate duplicates from Gmail and they'll go from your berry as well.

Agree with the OP. BlackBerry will loose its core fan base with these glitches.

Contacts are a mess on Z30 also (if one is syncing with a Gmail acc and with Outlook). They disappear, un-link, duplicate, etc. It's like having a gnome in the phone who likes to mess around with the contacts.

So much for a "business phone".

Powerfully Encrypted with my Z10

[cathulu15]

Random thoughts

I think the wifi is a bit buggy on the Z30, but my Galaxy S2 was worse. Still no excuse and that is the only thing that has made me want to throw my phone against the wall.

My work Galaxy S5 has a good camera and screen, but somehow deleted all my photos in the phone memory. It also blows on UI. Has the apps though.

Work mate's iPhone 6 blows as a phone. Wifey's iPhone 4 became unusably slow with successive updates which is why she has a Z30. But sometimes slow android app performance eg Fitbit is getting under her skin.

BlackBerry needs to improve hardware cameras and camera software, that to me is a huge priority. My Z30 camera is middle of the road for the time it was introduced, but still being used by BlackBerry.

Also improve the runtime so it is equal in performance and as reliable as say the penultimate Galaxy Sx phone at any given time. That can be used as a reference so developers that lockout BlackBerry on Amazon apps have no more reason to.



Posted via CB10

[anon9133023]

You can bet he is

I think you underestimate the level of complexity. I don't think any system can achieve 5 nines, let alone something as complicated as this.

If you're a programmer, then you must be a heck of a lot better than me.

Cheers.



Powerfully Encrypted with my Z10

I've worked on 99.999% uptime servers and they were a dream. Tandem. Last model I used was the S4000 Puma. 4 way fault tolerance with 99.999% guaranteed up time and less than 4 hours of unplanned downtime per year.

Of course you were paying 4X+ the price but when your data centers are remote, or sometimes maybe you have to airdrop things in ready to run, you have to plan a little differently.

[blackmoe]

There is an app to clear those out now. Very useful.
http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/59956050

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The app description of its purpose is rather thin.

[bacontimbit]

Hey guys. Side by side, my 2-year-old Z10 is still faster than today's Androids (I did a test a few days back at a store) for functions I use. But it doesn't mean the OP's points are invalid or unfair.

- phone app so half baked and it just takes forever to connect or disconnect calls. agree. Also it does not sync with contacts well This is not the case for me.
- contacts app - duplication, poor social integration and slow to load. This is not the case for me.
- keyboard. It some times become so heavy that swiping words feels laggy. This is not the case for me. Also predictions are no more that good. They seem to some time correct a right word with wrong This is something you can adjust as a user. e.g. not swiping up, immediately hitting back-space to change to the original typed word, using custom dictionary, etc.

- Camera shots especially during low light and dark conditions are terrible. Be it any device. agree. this is a compromise I accept for being able to do other things. If the photo ever becomes important enough, I'd switch to another phone. But that's not the case for me right now.

Could you elaborate on those for other posters to be able to give an input?
- how to use active frames actually still quite unclear.
- more email functions. Just imagine can't even mark a mail as junk you could file to junk with two key presses, but I'm guessing you mean to make a rule to send it to junk from then on? Does your email server recognize that you've sent it to junk? (mine does) and no option to edit the signature the wat we want. you can edit the signature from the mail setting through hub and also edit like normal text from the email itself. Did I misunderstand your comment?

[gorilla16]

OP you do understand you are using a two year old device? You do understand that the battery life with the z10 is not up to today's standards, and there is a ton of documentation on this site that discusses that? You do understand why BLackberry's start up time is longer than other devices...because of the series of security check BB devices go through. You do understand .......hang on forget all that....given all the ridiculous complaints in this post....the OP doesn't understand. Yikes! Buy a Z30 at least you will only be on a year and a half old device.

Even better...buy the Leap! The newest creation from research in motion! It is fantastic and absolutely up-to-date!

Posted via CB10

[Hayk Stambultsyan]

Hey Bruh, upgrade to a passport....you get what you pay for

[DrBoomBotz]

The proof is in the pudding. No one in the OS space (on any platform) has been able to do what you claim is doable.

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Please provide citations for this proof.


If you are correct and system complexity continues to increase then update issues will continue to increase commensurately.
Eventually nobody will even attempt an update.
If we look backwards across 6 decades(give or take) I don't think that we have seen this.
What we have seen are improvements in managing system complexity.

I doubt many people in this forum want a smartphone that absolutely cannot be trusted to update it's OS without messing up the configuration. If you don't hold the company responsible for ensuring quality upgrades and instead blame the end users, the situation is likely to get worse.

[conite]

Please provide citations for this proof.


If you are correct and system complexity continues to increase then update issues will continue to increase commensurately.
Eventually nobody will even attempt an update.
If we look backwards across 6 decades(give or take) I don't think that we have seen this.
What we have seen are improvements in managing system complexity.

I doubt many people in this forum want a smartphone that absolutely cannot be trusted to update it's OS without messing up the configuration. If you don't hold the company responsible for ensuring quality upgrades and instead blame the end users, the situation is likely to get worse.

You seriously need me to direct you to hundreds of Windows, Android, and iOS sites all screaming about update failures? Really?

Even for their own Nexus devices, 5.0.1 was an emergency hotfix for 5.0.0. 5.0.2 was a hot fix for 5.0.1. 5.1 then came out to offer a few additional features as well as to fix crippling issues. The 5.1 roll-out was then halted due to issues while 5.1.1 was worked on. All this over a period of 5 months.

I hardly need to start on iOS (from wikipedia):

------
A study by Crittercism found that the rate at which applications crashed in their tests was 3.56% on iOS 8, higher than the 2% found on iOS 7.1.[35]

On September 24, 2014, the iOS 8.0.1 release crippled iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus of Touch ID and cellular.[36] The update was released at 9:00 AM PST, and approximately at 11:00 AM PST, Apple removed the update due to these problems, as well as other minor issues. A day later, Apple released iOS 8.0.2 which contains all the fixes included with iOS 8.0.1 and also fixes the problems that iOS 8.0.1 introduced.[37]

There are unfixed Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and battery issues. There is still no official statement from Apple about the issues that will be fixed in the future.[38]

On March 9, 2015, the date iOS 8.2 released, many game users mainly from East Asia reported missing characters in their games after upgrading to 8.2. Game manufacturer has no idea about the possible cause, as the characters having problems seems to be arbitrary. The problem was later found to be related to the change of font location, and Unity has got a fix to such problem.[39]

On April 8, 2015, Apple Inc. released iOS 8.3 and on the next day April 9, 2015, hundreds of iPhone and iPad Air 2/iPad mini 3 users are reporting on Apple�s Support communities and Reddit that after upgrading to iOS 8.3, they have completely lost the ability to use Touch ID in the App Store. Instead of prompting them to verify their fingerprint before purchasing or downloading any new app, the App Store now asks users to enter the password of their Apple ID. Even disabling and re-enabling Touch ID for App Store has not solved the issue for the affected users, and at the moment, there does not seem to be any temporary workaround to this problem.
--------

This is a very, very short list btw. We could fill volumes.

Do we need to even start with Windows update issues?

All of these OSes tested great on the workbench and in limited, controlled beta. This all happenned when it went OTA to the masses, due to all of the unforeseen variables factoring in.

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[DrBoomBotz]

You seriously need me to direct you to hundreds of Windows, Android, and iOS sites all screaming about update failures? Really?

Even for their own Nexus devices, 5.0.1 was an emergency hotfix for 5.0.0. 5.0.2 was a hot fix for 5.0.1. 5.1 then came out to offer a few additional features as well as to fix crippling issues. The 5.1 roll-out was then halted due to issues while 5.1.1 was worked on. All this over a period of 5 months.

I hardly need to start on iOS (from wikipedia):

------
A study by Crittercism found that the rate at which applications crashed in their tests was 3.56% on iOS 8, higher than the 2% found on iOS 7.1.[35]

On September 24, 2014, the iOS 8.0.1 release crippled iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus of Touch ID and cellular.[36] The update was released at 9:00 AM PST, and approximately at 11:00 AM PST, Apple removed the update due to these problems, as well as other minor issues. A day later, Apple released iOS 8.0.2 which contains all the fixes included with iOS 8.0.1 and also fixes the problems that iOS 8.0.1 introduced.[37]

There are unfixed Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and battery issues. There is still no official statement from Apple about the issues that will be fixed in the future.[38]

On March 9, 2015, the date iOS 8.2 released, many game users mainly from East Asia reported missing characters in their games after upgrading to 8.2. Game manufacturer has no idea about the possible cause, as the characters having problems seems to be arbitrary. The problem was later found to be related to the change of font location, and Unity has got a fix to such problem.[39]

On April 8, 2015, Apple Inc. released iOS 8.3 and on the next day April 9, 2015, hundreds of iPhone and iPad Air 2/iPad mini 3 users are reporting on Apple’s Support communities and Reddit that after upgrading to iOS 8.3, they have completely lost the ability to use Touch ID in the App Store. Instead of prompting them to verify their fingerprint before purchasing or downloading any new app, the App Store now asks users to enter the password of their Apple ID. Even disabling and re-enabling Touch ID for App Store has not solved the issue for the affected users, and at the moment, there does not seem to be any temporary workaround to this problem.
--------

This is a very, very short list btw. We could fill volumes.

Do we need to even start with Windows update issues?

All of these OSes tested great on the workbench and in limited, controlled beta. This all happenned when it went OTA to the masses, due to all of the unforeseen variables factoring in.

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So I understood you correctly... that if complexity continues to increase update issues will also increase in lock-step?

[conite]

So I understood you correctly... that if complexity continues to increase update issues will also increase in lock-step?

Our ability to control complexity gets better too. So it's a tug of war I suppose - a battle of Titans so to speak.

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[DrBoomBotz]

Our ability to control complexity gets better too. So it's a tug of war I suppose - a battle of Titans so to speak.

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Thanks for making my point.

[conite]

Thanks for making my point.

My point has always been that perfection in OS development and updating is not only hard, but impossible. And my proof is the fact that it has never been achieved.

We are always improving our abilities, but at the same time, systems are becoming more and more complex.

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[DrBoomBotz]

My point has always been that perfection in OS development and updating is not only hard, but impossible. And my proof is the fact that it has never been achieved.

We are always improving our abilities, but at the same time, systems are becoming more and more complex.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.500

Your point is duly noted.
I agree that perfection is impossible.
You have stated and I agree that the reason that quality is not going down commensurate with the increase in complexity is that the industry is continuously getting better at managing complexity.

So the industry has tools to manage complexity and I doubt you will argue that the industry has tools to measure quality. Therefore if you can manage it and you can measure it then you can apply an n sigma solution(where n is the quality target). Its just a question of cost and I suggest that if people demand quality that somebody will provide it. Talking about perfection is just reductio ad adsurdium ie: (since perfection is impossible improving quality is also impossible). Maybe they can't do 5 nines cost effectively... how bout 4 nines?

[conite]

Your point is duly noted.
I agree that perfection is impossible.
You have stated and I agree that the reason that quality is not going down commensurate with the increase in complexity is that the industry is continuously getting better at managing complexity.

So the industry has tools to manage complexity and I doubt you will argue that the industry has tools to measure quality. Therefore if you can manage it and you can measure it then you can apply an n sigma solution(where n is the quality target). Its just a question of cost and I suggest that if people demand quality that somebody will provide it. Talking about perfection is just reductio ad adsurdium ie: (since perfection is impossible improving quality is also impossible). Maybe they can't do 5 nines cost effectively... how bout 4 nines?

I agree with you here.

But at some point it's more cost effective to simply tell someone to do a security wipe than to staff a development team of x people to accommodate 10x users.

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