12-27-21 03:50 PM
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  1. rcoyet's Avatar
    Hi,

    I understand that sadly my Q5 OS 10 will stop working from January, but why can’t Phone calls and text messages carry on working?
    On a technical level, do phone calls and text messages don’t go thru the network, if yes why is it an issue if BB stops it’s services?

    I would be interesting to hear your input?

    Joe
    10-31-21 01:22 PM
  2. joeldf's Avatar
    Depends on where in the world you are located.

    In the US, the shutdown of 3G that is happening throughout the next years will affect calls and texts as those things run through the 3G network on BB10, not LTE.

    LTE will be used for data and VoLTE (Voice over LTE), but BB10 is not compatible with the implementation of VoLTE that will be used in the US, so when 3G is turned off, BB10 phones lose calls and text.

    In the rest of the world, that's a different story but still depends on the region.
    10-31-21 05:09 PM
  3. m3ach's Avatar
    Depends on where in the world you are located.

    In the US, the shutdown of 3G that is happening throughout the next years will affect calls and texts as those things run through the 3G network on BB10, not LTE.

    LTE will be used for data and VoLTE (Voice over LTE), but BB10 is not compatible with the implementation of VoLTE that will be used in the US, so when 3G is turned off, BB10 phones lose calls and text.

    In the rest of the world, that's a different story but still depends on the region.
    Further to this it is not just BB10 phones that are facing the problem, other similar vintage devices from the big manufacturers like Apple and Samsung face the same issues once 3G is shut down.
    10-31-21 05:14 PM
  4. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...but the OP I think is correct, in terms of the BlackBerry10 EOL by itself is not the thing that by itself will stop the BB10 phones from working for SMS, calls, etc...
    10-31-21 07:06 PM
  5. rcoyet's Avatar
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I don’t think The BlackBerry10 EOL has anything to do with 3G.
    I have just tried and if I disable Data and wifi I can still make phone calls, just indicates that for phone calls it doesn’t need data (3G) access.

    I’m just wondering why Blackberry keeps saying that phone calls and text messages will end, as I can’t see why it should even if Blackberry stops their services.

    I’m desperate to keep my Q5 because of the qwerty keyboard.
    10-31-21 07:30 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I don’t think The BlackBerry10 EOL has anything to do with 3G.
    I have just tried and if I disable Data and wifi I can still make phone calls, just indicates that for phone calls it doesn’t need data (3G) access.

    I’m just wondering why Blackberry keeps saying that phone calls and text messages will end, as I can’t see why it should even if Blackberry stops their services.

    I’m desperate to keep my Q5 because of the qwerty keyboard.
    The warning is a blanket statement about all BlackBerry (pre-Android) devices, instead of 3 specific lists pertaining to BBOS, BB10, and PlayBook separately.

    BlackBerry is taking the pragmatic approach and removing any and all liability with regards to both platforms.
    Last edited by conite; 10-31-21 at 11:00 PM.
    10-31-21 10:23 PM
  7. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...I’m just wondering why Blackberry keeps saying that phone calls and text messages will end, as I can’t see why it should even if Blackberry stops their services....
    I don't think BlackBerry is saying that. I am aware that some of the carriers have said that BlackBerry has basically said that. However, unless BlackBerry has made a few more different updated statements or unless BlackBerry is telling the carriers something slightly different than what BlackBerry is stating publicly, I think the only thing BlackBerry has said (in relation to BB10) is that the devices will no longer receive OTA updates, and that they should not be relied upon for calls, data, sms, 911....
    10-31-21 10:37 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    I don't think BlackBerry is saying that. I am aware that some of the carriers have said that BlackBerry has basically said that. However, unless BlackBerry has made a few more different updated statements or unless BlackBerry is telling the carriers something slightly different than what BlackBerry is stating publicly, I think the only thing BlackBerry has said (in relation to BB10) is that the devices will no longer receive OTA updates, and that they should not be relied upon for calls, data, sms, 911....
    "As another milestone in the BlackBerry journey, we will be taking steps to decommission the legacy services for BlackBerry 7.1 OS and earlier, BlackBerry 10 software, BlackBerry PlayBook OS 2.1 and earlier versions, with an end of life or termination date of January 4, 2022. As of this date, devices running these legacy services and software through either carrier or Wi-Fi connections will no longer reliably function, including for data, phone calls, SMS and 9-1-1 functionality. We have chosen to extend our service until then as an expression of thanks to our loyal partners and customers."

    - BlackBerry
    10-31-21 10:55 PM
  9. spARTacus's Avatar
    "As another milestone in the BlackBerry journey, we will be taking steps to decommission the legacy services for BlackBerry 7.1 OS and earlier, BlackBerry 10 software, BlackBerry PlayBook OS 2.1 and earlier versions, with an end of life or termination date of January 4, 2022. As of this date, devices running these legacy services and software through either carrier or Wi-Fi connections will no longer reliably function, including for data, phone calls, SMS and 9-1-1 functionality. We have chosen to extend our service until then as an expression of thanks to our loyal partners and customers."

    - BlackBerry
    Yes, and they said

    "...These devices will lack the ability to receive over the air provisioning updates and as such, this functionality will no longer be expected to reliably function, including for data, phone calls, SMS and 9-1-1 functionality.​​​​..."
    10-31-21 11:00 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Yes, and they said

    "...These devices will lack the ability to receive over the air provisioning updates and as such, this functionality will no longer be expected to reliably function, including for data, phone calls, SMS and 9-1-1 functionality.​​​​..."
    That ended years ago, so that's pretty much irrelevant.

    EOD was Aug 2018 for BB10, and Jul 2014 for BBOS.
    10-31-21 11:01 PM
  11. spARTacus's Avatar
    That ended years ago, so that's pretty much irrelevant.
    Perhaps, but it is also at the crux of what they said for this EOL deadline.
    10-31-21 11:03 PM
  12. joeldf's Avatar
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I don’t think The BlackBerry10 EOL has anything to do with 3G.
    You're right, it doesn't.

    I was merely adding something that carriers are also doing that would affect calls and text very soon. It happens to be all happening around the same time.
    10-31-21 11:03 PM
  13. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...EOD was Aug 2018 for BB10, and Jul 2014 for BBOS.
    Why do you keep doing that? Adding or making more than just non-significant content edits to your posts afterwards?
    elfabio80 likes this.
    10-31-21 11:09 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Why do you keep doing that? Adding or making more than just non-significant content edits to your posts afterwards?
    Adds more clarity/info after I review my post. Doesn't change the argument in the least.
    eshropshire and IggyBlue like this.
    10-31-21 11:10 PM
  15. spARTacus's Avatar
    Adds more clarity/info after I review my post. Doesn't change the argument in the least.
    It's not good forum manners, in my opinion.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    10-31-21 11:11 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    It's not good forum manners, in my opinion.
    Cool. Good thing you don't do it then.
    10-31-21 11:12 PM
  17. spARTacus's Avatar
    Cool. Good thing you don't do it then.
    Certainly not like you do, and when it afterwards changes the dynamics or perception of what was originally being discussed, quoted, responded to, etc...
    10-31-21 11:15 PM
  18. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I don’t think The BlackBerry10 EOL has anything to do with 3G.
    It's not the same thing, but in North America, they are happening at the same time. The BB shutdown has been coming for a long time - BB got out of the phone business 5 years ago. They've kept the services up much longer than they had any obligation to, but that is going to be over soon.

    But there is also the 5G rollout, which is happening in 2022 in North America, and sometime between 2022-2024 in Europe, depending on country. As part of that, 2G/3G is getting shut down. The 3G doesn't really matter, because that's just data, and the phones will continue to get data via LTE/4G. But ALL BB10 phones currently use 2G tech for making/receiving phone calls and SMS texts, regardless of their data connection, and those 2G (and 3G) networks are being shut down so that their frequencies can be redeployed as 5G frequencies, which are much more efficient and can handle far more devices.

    Your BB10 phone will continue to work for calls and SMS as long as 2G-technology calling is supported in your country. Some Euro countries have already shut down 2G, some are doing so next year, and others in 2023-2024. Of course, it's not necessarily a one-day cut-over; it's a process, and some areas will lose their 2G capabilities early - it just depends on the situation in that particular coverage area. Of course, you also need to consider CARRIER POLICIES, as some carriers are kicking these phones off the network already, and others will probably do the same as their cutover gets closer.

    You just need to be fully prepared to have your phone stop working at any time, without any warning, and without any "fix." You'll be on a completely unsupported device, and have already received "End of life" warnings, so you are taking that risk upon yourself, and you need to be prepared to switch to a supported device at any time.
    10-31-21 11:31 PM
  19. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...You just need to be fully prepared to have your phone stop working at any time, without any warning, and without any "fix." You'll be on a completely unsupported device, and have already received "End of life" warnings, so you are taking that risk upon yourself, and you need to be prepared to switch to a supported device at any time.
    This ^^^
    10-31-21 11:35 PM
  20. nevilleadaniels's Avatar
    Let's make this GSM nonsense straightened out.

    Phone calls and SMS go over GSM, not 2, not 3, not 4 and certainly not 5.
    Enhanced services have go over the data links, and yes they can go over Wi-Fi as well.
    VoLTE calls over usually 4g that can go over 3g or any other active data connection.
    5g is in its infancy, and already you will need the second generation for that.

    High-definition calls needed a 3G or Wi-Fi connection to function properly. I found a good landline Internet connection solved many persons problem there.

    So your old Blackberry phones should still work for calls and SMS provided you are not sending through the BlackBerry account which should any case be disconnected by you today.

    Your applications can be set to run over the internet instead.

    As has been said BlackBerry, it is just covering all angles. They did say "not to be relied upon".
    Blackberry-4-Ever likes this.
    11-01-21 05:46 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Let's make this GSM nonsense straightened out.

    Phone calls and SMS go over GSM, not 2, not 3, not 4 and certainly not 5.
    Enhanced services have go over the data links, and yes they can go over Wi-Fi as well.
    VoLTE calls over usually 4g that can go over 3g or any other active data connection.
    5g is in its infancy, and already you will need the second generation for that.

    High-definition calls needed a 3G or Wi-Fi connection to function properly. I found a good landline Internet connection solved many persons problem there.

    So your old Blackberry phones should still work for calls and SMS provided you are not sending through the BlackBerry account which should any case be disconnected by you today.

    Your applications can be set to run over the internet instead.

    As has been said BlackBerry, it is just covering all angles. They did say "not to be relied upon".
    GSM is a protocol to carry voice over a 2G network. Subsequently UTMS is used for 3G networks (based on the GSM standard), VoLTE is for 4G networks, and VoNR is for 5G networks - where the last two do not follow the GSM standard and are typically considered enhanced services by most carriers.

    In cellular communication, "HD Voice" specifically refers to AMR-WB (G.722.2) in VoLTE.
    Last edited by conite; 11-01-21 at 07:06 AM.
    11-01-21 06:56 AM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Hi,

    I understand that sadly my Q5 OS 10 will stop working from January, but why can’t Phone calls and text messages carry on working?
    On a technical level, do phone calls and text messages don’t go thru the network, if yes why is it an issue if BB stops it’s services?

    I would be interesting to hear your input?

    Joe
    Would be interesting to hear BlackBerry's..... as it stands they just lumped everything together and said "it might not work", which covers them all the way around.

    So that leaves users hoping that BB10 won't be in as bad of a situation as BBOS, but not really knowing till it happens.... or their carrier goes ahead and kicks them off anyway.
    nevilleadaniels likes this.
    11-01-21 10:42 AM
  23. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Let's make this GSM nonsense straightened out.

    Phone calls and SMS go over GSM, not 2, not 3, not 4 and certainly not 5.
    GSM (and CDMA) are 2G technologies. "2G" was the first DIGITAL generation, which replaced analog cell phone systems. 2G, whether CDMA or GSM, originally only covered phone calls - SMS texting and then mobile internet data came later.

    While in the US, "2G" was shut down several years ago, the phone call portion was kept around as this is what "3G" devices continued to use for calls and SMS. Now that 3G is being shut down, the 2G phone call capabilities are also being turned off. Yes, it's a bit confusion, as the terms have changed in usage over time, but the bottom line is: phones that don't support VoLTE on modern networks won't be able to make/receive phone calls or SMS - which means in most cases that carriers won't let them on the network at all.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-01-21 04:44 PM
  24. joeylicari's Avatar
    Ive been doing some research on this and at least in the case of tmobile but possibly others, Blackberry 10 phones use send both data AND SMS over LTE. It is just the actual phone call that drops it to 3g or 2g. I know this because I have been in areas where there was no 2g or 3g service at all just LTE and while I couldnt make a call i could still text. Found out that these BB10s are able to send the text over LTE after doing more research. So now if nobody is able to get voice over LTE working on any carrier we could all probably use an SIP/VOIP app for phone calls and do our texts and data like normal to not have to give up our BB10 phones.
    12-09-21 10:50 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Ive been doing some research on this and at least in the case of tmobile but possibly others, Blackberry 10 phones use send both data AND SMS over LTE. It is just the actual phone call that drops it to 3g or 2g. I know this because I have been in areas where there was no 2g or 3g service at all just LTE and while I couldnt make a call i could still text. Found out that these BB10s are able to send the text over LTE after doing more research. So now if nobody is able to get voice over LTE working on any carrier we could all probably use an SIP/VOIP app for phone calls and do our texts and data like normal to not have to give up our BB10 phones.
    The only problem is that commercially viable apps either VoIP or VoLTE like TextFree or TextNow aren’t really any good on deprecated versions of Android 4.3 or lower. Even available SIP clients seem to be antiquated. I’m not sure that carriers will even allow non-compatible devices on the network for just data only.
    12-10-21 08:41 AM
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