01-27-16 08:34 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    No it is not. They already spent the money to develop it. They are wasting all that money by dropping it. The cost now are no greater than it takes them to do all the work to integrate and keep up to date for each new version of Android. I can see that you have never developed software and don't understand the costs involved.
    Development never stops. It takes ungodly amounts of money to continually develop and evolve an OS to stay current and break new barriers. The alternative is obsolescence and death. You can only stay in "support mode" for so long.

    A great example is the Priv's imminent update to Marshmallow. A handful of BlackBerry developers are able to leverage Google's hundreds of millions of dollars of Android M development.
    Last edited by conite; 01-20-16 at 08:07 AM.
    01-20-16 07:31 AM
  2. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    BB10 is already in maintenance and phase-out mode. Has been at least since the Leap was launched, probably longer. They can't just flip the switch and pull the rug out from existing users, and they still have inventory to sell.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and JeepBB like this.
    01-20-16 08:13 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    BB10 is already in maintenance and phase-out mode. Has been at least since the Leap was launched, probably longer. They can't just flip the switch and pull the rug out from existing users, and they still have inventory to sell.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    Agreed. This is similar to my post #3. BlackBerry has certain obligations it must contractually uphold, and there are just some things they simply must maintain (technical support, security updates, etc).
    01-20-16 08:16 AM
  4. duboisstephane0's Avatar
    That's what the Priv is there for.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    01-20-16 08:54 AM
  5. ikalinin's Avatar
    That's what the Priv is there for.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    exactly. Android is open source, and BB doesnt have to worry about drivers/ apps, etc. all they have to do, is keep rolling with it and make it the must have android device w/ that blackberry logo on it.
    01-20-16 09:56 AM
  6. nabollocks's Avatar
    They're already not doing much more than satisfying existing contracts and providing basic support for the remaining BB10 inventory as it is sold off. What less can they really do?
    Conite, this is a good example of a terribly negative comment about the future if BB10 which is nothing more than hearsay.

    I am happy to hear that you like your Android Priv, but trust me, no government in their right mind will be using it.


    Posted via CB10
    muellerto likes this.
    01-20-16 10:15 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Conite, this is a good example of a terribly negative comment about the future if BB10 which is nothing more than hearsay.

    I am happy to hear that you like your Android Priv, but trust me, no government in their right mind will be using it.


    Posted via CB10
    Here's an example of where you make odd assumptions.

    The OP was suggesting BB10 be dropped immediately to save money. My response was that BlackBerry is already spending very little and most likely can't spend much less if they wish to satisfy their support and contractual obligations (rightly or wrongly, I don't think many would disagree with that).

    What in the world are you talking about the Priv and government for? If you want to talk about those, then fine, we can. But it has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

    Frankly, I think you present a much gloomier picture for BlackBerry than I do. I am bullish on their future, and their efforts and security enhancements they've made to Android, and the prospects of Android in enterprise. This is the direction BlackBerry is going, and I support it. It all depends on perspective, doesn't it? I see myself as the optimist.
    Last edited by conite; 01-20-16 at 11:07 AM.
    01-20-16 10:41 AM
  8. muellerto's Avatar
    What in the world are you talking about the Priv and government for? If you want to talk about those, then fine, we can. But it has absolutely nothing to do with my post.
    You mentioned that Chen said his Priv will get the certificates some day.
    I am bullish on their future, and their efforts and security enhancements they've made to Android, and the prospects of Android in enterprise. This is the direction BlackBerry is going, and I support it. It all depends on perspective, doesn't it?
    I would say it depends mostly on their success in developing a secure and privacy conform (!) Android. But as long as we find articles like this one from yesterday, as long as RIM is not mentioned as the one positive exception in the Android world they still have a lot to do. German ix-magazine shows a nice picture related to this article:

    BlackBerry needs to end BB10 and get with the times...-masterkrank-4e05d3ddb48b4d98.jpeg
    01-20-16 11:18 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    You mentioned that Chen said his Priv will get the certificates some day.
    I would say it depends mostly on their success in developing a secure and privacy conform (!) Android. But as long as we find articles like this one from yesterday, as long as RIM is not mentioned as the one positive exception in the Android world they still have a lot to do. German ix-magazine shows a nice picture related to this article:
    I did not mention Chen, the Priv, or certifications in the post he was replying to, no.

    Here is my original post ( #3 ):

    "They're already not doing much more than satisfying existing contracts and providing basic support for the remaining BB10 inventory as it is sold off. What less can they really do?"



    There is an active thread on this android vulnerability. Perhaps we can take that discussion there. Hopefully the Priv's hardening and Google's monthly security updates will mitigate any exposure.
    Last edited by conite; 01-20-16 at 11:37 AM.
    01-20-16 11:26 AM
  10. 6stringriffs's Avatar
    BB10 devices are absolutely USELESS!

    And I'm writing this as someone who paid full price for a Verizon Z30 10 months ago. 5 months later I learned the hard way how useless it is. The native map is not updated as fast the Google map. It can get you lost. Native apps are not being updated or have been abandoned even after spending money on it. As for the Android Apps, an update will render an app uselesss cause it will then require Google Play to work fully. No I don't need to name names. There's plenty of threads at other sub-forums here in Crackberry. As for the Cobalt Faux G-Play? Way too cumbersome to install, update, and 'scrub' existing android apps to get it working properly. Believe it or not, some people actually have lives to lead outside of CB.

    And can we please drop the "productivity" angle? That docs-to-go is now a horrible joke compared to the Google Sheets, Docs, & Slides. Not to mention the actual MSFT Office apps now available on Android.

    The only positive light on BB10? Yes the Hub. Even the Priv Hub is a joke compared to the real thing on BB10 as it can handle all manners of communication and the android version cannot. But.... I've managed just fine using 3 apps to communicate instead of the Hub.

    And I'm not writing this as a fan of the Priv. The Nexus 6P runs rings around it. The Marshmallow OS now has granular permissions and actually protects my data. I know, I've seen how apps cannot access my contacts, storage, or location. Combine that with AdGuard, and learning to adjust all the privacy settings in my (FAKE) Google account, I can declare that my Nexus is just as private if not more than any BB10 device.

    Finally, I actually get to have friends... seeing as how BB10's Facebook is so incomplete/far-behind you'd think you weren't allowed to have friends if you're a BB10 user.

    The day they turn off BB10 will be a great day of celebration!
    01-20-16 12:01 PM
  11. Necronas's Avatar


    Posted via CB10
    elfabio80 likes this.
    01-20-16 12:05 PM
  12. ljfong's Avatar
    BB10 devices are absolutely USELESS!

    And I'm writing this as someone who paid full price for a Verizon Z30 10 months ago. 5 months later I learned the hard way how useless it is. The native map is not updated as fast the Google map. It can get you lost. Native apps are not being updated or have been abandoned even after spending money on it. As for the Android Apps, an update will render an app uselesss cause it will then require Google Play to work fully. No I don't need to name names. There's plenty of threads at other sub-forums here in Crackberry. As for the Cobalt Faux G-Play? Way too cumbersome to install, update, and 'scrub' existing android apps to get it working properly. Believe it or not, some people actually have lives to lead outside of CB.

    And can we please drop the "productivity" angle? That docs-to-go is now a horrible joke compared to the Google Sheets, Docs, & Slides. Not to mention the actual MSFT Office apps now available on Android.

    The only positive light on BB10? Yes the Hub. Even the Priv Hub is a joke compared to the real thing on BB10 as it can handle all manners of communication and the android version cannot. But.... I've managed just fine using 3 apps to communicate instead of the Hub.

    And I'm not writing this as a fan of the Priv. The Nexus 6P runs rings around it. The Marshmallow OS now has granular permissions and actually protects my data. I know, I've seen how apps cannot access my contacts, storage, or location. Combine that with AdGuard, and learning to adjust all the privacy settings in my (FAKE) Google account, I can declare that my Nexus is just as private if not more than any BB10 device.

    Finally, I actually get to have friends... seeing as how BB10's Facebook is so incomplete/far-behind you'd think you weren't allowed to have friends if you're a BB10 user.

    The day they turn off BB10 will be a great day of celebration!
    As much as I agree on how limited BB10 devices are in today's landscape, I doubt turning off BB10 is worth any celebration lol. BB10 will just go the way of WebOS, Palm OS, Firefox OS, Amiga OS, OS/2 and the likes and be relegated to computing history. It is just another piece of technology that ultimately lost the war.
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-20-16 12:07 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Well, @6stringriffs just planted the downfield yardstick.

    Aren't I just the warm and fuzzy moderate now?
    DrBoomBotz, kirson, JeepBB and 3 others like this.
    01-20-16 12:09 PM
  14. crucial bbq's Avatar
    But I think you'll find the vast majority of CEOs in billion+ dollar companies are carrying iPhones, and I say that as someone who is no fan of Apple at all. Many of those same CEOs used to carry BB's, and yet, somehow, their companies didn't go bankrupt when they switched...
    As I have wrote a few times; the majority of those in the U.S. who left BlackBerry in the past went to the iPhone (from BBOS). Based on what I have read here on CrackBerry I would say that those who are leaving BB10 now are going Android mostly and of course there are still BBOS holdouts who just don't like BB10 but will eventually need to adopt a new platform. Android is BlackBerry's only play right now if they want to do their own handsets and retain current customers. Even if they got out of hardware and licensed the entire operation to other OEMs those phones would be Android, anyways.

    I, as a share holder, would like to see BlackBerry revive. BB10 didnt catch on. we can keep pounding our fists on the forums and telling people they dont understand.
    The truth comes out.

    I am not a share holder, so what I would like to see from BlackBerry differs from yours as I have no financial stake in the matter nor the emotions tied to it. Here's is something to think about, however: as a consumer BlackBerry has no obligations to me other than to deliver a promise that their products will work as advertised. From there it becomes a stand-off: BlackBerry thinking about what products I would buy and me waiting for BlackBerry to deliver. If they don't, they lose me as a customer. If that happens, your stock devalues ever so slightly. Now multiply that by X number lost customers and that devaluation increases more so.

    While there is certainly more to how the stock market works, bottom line is this: you are in the worse position. You must rely on BlackBerry to build a product that will sell and you must also rely on consumers to purchase that same product. For your sake that means continuing to support BB10 for at least another year or two if not longer.


    Android is nothing but an advertising platform. I get much more done with my Z30 than any of the Android phones I have and use. Still waiting for Android to have a decent file manager built it.

    I am still waiting for iPhone to get Miracast and WiFi direct and a file manager. iOS is even more behind Android for technology.
    iirc, Apple had AirPlay roughly two years before Miracast launched. iOS devices since iOS 7 iirc have the wifi direct chip and AirDrop uses wifi direct. Not sure if this is expandable beyond Apple products, but it is there. As for the file manager, well, there are apps for that.

    when bb10 is done ill be done with bb all together i will not support their android devices or any other android device for that matter. i do not think bb will be in the android game for too long theres just to much better competition out threre for them to survive in a market thats flooded with androids.
    In the Bloomberg interview that took place after the Q3 call Chen indicated, when discussing the pricing trajectory for the Priv, that he intends for Priv to continue through 2017.


    I read on this and every other thread that bb10 isn't, wasn't selling. Why? Because
    1. When they had a great device (hardware) z10 the OS was terrible
    2. Z30 better OS but hardware outdated
    3. Passport great device but "Not for everyone "

    I wonder what would happen if we had or have a good midrange device that looks like a z10 but with some metal,720p screen and some quad core or QC 615 with bb10 at a normal price, lower than iPhone naturally.
    If that wouldn't sell then we could blame it on the OS.

    BlackBerry z10. 2339
    In my opinion, and we all got one, BlackBerry spent too much time and money on expanding their device portfolio and not enough time and money on solidifying the OS.

    May be. But RIM does indeed everthing to get this number finally down. And this is the case for years. They don't communicate as they should and when Chen says something he surprizes with unclear statements, instead they still cultivate rumours and let them run, they make developers and customers insecure, they are nesting in niches as with the Passport, they still neglegt full touch devices, they don't even react on user feedback and fix their own damned bugs for years (as in the Contacts), and more.
    For what it is worth, Chen needs to keep his mouth shut. Why on Earth did he think it a good idea to announce to the world that exiting hardware is still an option at and beyond the launch of the Priv?

    Has RIM/BlackBerry ever listened to anyone but themselves? Sure, Clewley and those BB employees in the Priv forum seem to be making a decent effort to connect with users but man, they should have been doing that back in 2009 at the latest.

    Chen himself said that if the Priv receives the certifications he is confident it will, then he only has to carry BB10 for one more year (Code/Mobile, Oct).
    As of last week, there is nothing on NIAPs website that I have found indicating that BB10.3.3, let alone any BB10 handset, is currently in testing for the cert or has already passed testing for the cert. However, the -01, -03, & -04 models of Priv are currently in testing for the cert according the NIAP website; which also according to the website will extend into 2017 (not sure if this means they will test the phone for that long, or if that is only the window of opportunity for the docket?). On an interesting side note the flagship Samsung's and LGs already have the cert and the Boeing Black as well.

    (I could be wrong with the above as I did not spend all day on the NIAP website; but I did search for the info in many different ways)
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    01-20-16 12:10 PM
  15. seascape's Avatar
    I'm not getting a Priv. If BlackBerry does kill off BlackBerry 10, I'll continue using my device until it doesn't work well anymore.

    I suspect BB10 will live on because there are corporate and government users who need it. It's a reasonably mature mobile operating system at this point. Not all that much R&D will be required to keep it going.
    01-20-16 12:22 PM
  16. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Also not seeing anything on Common Criteria for BB10, either, but those same Samsung's, LGs, and Boeing Black are there, too.

    BlackBerry is listed on the NIST website as having the cert for FIPS 140-1, though.
    01-20-16 12:34 PM
  17. whatsever's Avatar
    BlackBerry has maybe 13-14 Million BB10 BES subscribers, so why don't they trying to renew all these contracts with a discount on new BB10 devices.

    Marketing this stuff with a phone . Maybe the Leap that is 279,00 euro and sale it for 200,00 euro if they take new BES subscribe for 2 years,.

    renew these contracts with new phone's .
    Last edited by whatsever; 01-20-16 at 01:44 PM.
    01-20-16 01:31 PM
  18. ikalinin's Avatar
    Looks like 'built for BlackBerry' program is ending. So it does look like BlackBerry is shifting resources.

    https://www.blackberrycentral.com/ne...rogram-ending/

    Posted via CB10 on the Classic
    01-20-16 01:33 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    BlackBerry has maybe 13-14 Million BB10 BES subscribers, so why don't they trying to renew all these contracts with a discount on new BB10 devices.

    Marketing this stuff with a phone . Maybe the Leap that is 279,00 euro and sale it for 200,00 euro if they take new BES subscribe for 2 years,.
    BB10 had a total of 10 million unique devices active as of last June - both BES and non-BES. Probably only 5 million are unique users with BB10 as a primary device (this second number is hard to determine from the data - although I have 5 BB10 devices, and many have moved on but keep an active BB10 device as a non-primary).
    Last edited by conite; 01-20-16 at 01:51 PM.
    01-20-16 01:39 PM
  20. adr972's Avatar
    I really hope BlackBerry 10 will stay and get updates and also new devices - these are just the most cool phones on all market - they should get a whole combo of Q10, Classic and Passport out next... !!!

    ... a delusionist perhaps... but sure not a troll

    Posted via CB10
    I totally agree. Due to poor facebook functioning I have attempted to replace my Z30 with an android device. I didn't buy a priv for high costs and the older processor. After two months I am totally disappointed. On the Android device the battery approaches eight hours time with great difficulty, I have to recharge it three times a day Vs.Z30's once in every two days. There's no sd card and file manager quality is very poor. I still believe there's no sense in putting documents in Cloud space (where somebody may gain access to them). So I'm keeping two phones, the Android one to chat and the Z30 to work. And I'm planning to buy a passport to exploit its very large autonomy, so as to avoid going around with a laptop!

    Posted via CB10
    01-20-16 01:42 PM
  21. bimmin's Avatar
    Yes, the conglomerate corporations have won. Technology used to be cool, now, not so much.
    01-20-16 01:58 PM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Development never stops. It takes ungodly amounts of money to continually develop and evolve an OS to stay current and break new barriers. The alternative is obsolescence and death. You can only stay in "support mode" for so long.

    A great example is the Priv's imminent update to Marshmallow. A handful of BlackBerry developers are able to leverage Google's hundreds of millions of dollars of Android M development.
    I love how you make things up. You never did software development did you.
    01-20-16 02:54 PM
  23. Summer_Moon's Avatar
    No one is buying them.
    I bought one... this month... and I don't think I am a no one... BlackBerry PassPort SE, and loving it!
    anon(4275744) likes this.
    01-20-16 03:39 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    I bought one... this month... and I don't think I am a no one... BlackBerry PassPort SE, and loving it!
    I bought one too.
    01-20-16 03:41 PM
  25. crazy mazy's Avatar
    The only way Blackberry loses money is if they try to put out a new BB10 phone. At this time all they are doing is maintaining the BB10 OS, as well as supporting BES customers. They are not wasting money. They have an obligation to support BES and enterprise customers, they will continue to do so for a few years. The only thing they will not do is put out new BB10 phones. So really it's not costing them a lot of money. They will perfect their Android phone line up, as they said they will release a new Android phone later this year as well as put out updates and Bug fixes. Now that's as close you will get to perfecting!
    01-20-16 04:02 PM
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