BlackBerry doesn't care that Hub now improperly handles Gmail

Originally Posted by Jerry A

I want to save it to "All Mail" folder. Please, please, please, please tell me how to do so.

Don't know how to make the issue any plainer than that.

Read #121 for a workaround. Also it makes no sense anyway to save something to "All Mail" because all mail ends up there anyway on the Gmail server side. If you want to "save" something there you just waste your time because all mails are already there. In #121 I wrote how you can have the Gmail server doing that for you in another folder (label) automatically.

Originally Posted by dejanh

I'm not even sure what to tell you. Data structure is important in so many ways in order to be able to efficiently index/search/use data. I think you're getting caught up on the word "folder" for no reason. Just because computing power is cheap these days, does not mean that we throw out the entire science on how to best organize data for specific uses.

Care to explain how it is useful? To date nobody has managed to convince me that it is anything more than a dumping ground for things that you may or may not get back to at some point in the future. A lazy cop-out for "organizing" email. Clearly, I have a strong opinion about this, but I do want to hear your side of the argument. How is it useful?

For the record, I read your post directly above, and you did not provide an explanation of how it is useful. You pretty much recited a very particular use case that is itself flawed. Let's use an analogy.

Say that I told you "the floor is dusty, please clean it". You then grab a broom, but instead of cleaning the floor and removing the dust from the floor all together, you sweep it under a sofa where it can't be seen. You will then come to me and say "all done, no more dust on the floor". Have you cleaned the floor or have you just moved the dust that was distributed all over to one spot, still leaving it on the floor and by definition still leaving the floor dirty?

Tying this analogy back to managing your inbox, if you had an "important email" that you did not want to address and instead you just moved it to the archive folder, then did you really do any work? Likewise, say that you did read the email but did not action on it and then you archived it, did you then do any work? Continuing along the same lines, say that you read the email, actioned on it, and then archived it, did you actually think about how you want to use this email in the future? The goal isn't to keep your inbox to zero emails, the goal is to reduce the number of emails that are received and retained in general. Google, by the virtue of archive, is in fact encouraging keeping the clutter all there, all the time, forever (I'll give you a hint, this actually benefits Google), just hidden from sight. They are not encouraging better email habits.

Database indexing works nothing like the human brain. You spend a lot of time rationalizing your way of doing things, but not accepting the way others do things. I'm not here to convince you my way is right or wrong. But honestly, to a search database index, there's no practical difference between your method and an all archiving method. It's all columns and rows with pointers to a binary space on the filesystem, not your "human-understandable" creation.

Originally Posted by Jerry A

I want to save it to "All Mail" folder. Please, please, please, please tell me how to do so.

Don't know how to make the issue any plainer than that.

We're saying you can't, use another folder. It's been stated many times now. OP knows this, its in his post #9. You both don't want to accept this.

Don't know how to make the issue any plainer than that.

Originally Posted by BCITMike

2013 doesn't subscribe to the "All Mail" folder by default. Or if it does, it doesn't work until manually subscribed (came across while googling yesterday).

No. I know how to subscribe to IMAP folders in Outlook. I used Outlook since 2003. I can query the Gmail server for the IMAP folder in Outlook 2013 and I see the All Mail folder there and I can mark it as subscribed. But by some "magic" the folder will not become visible in the account.

BlackBerry removed (if it had it before) the ability to Subscribe to the All Mail folder. Whether giving the option is as simple as showing the All Mail folder to be subscribed, I doubt it. But a better thread title without emotional rant would have been "Unable to subscribe to "All Mail" Gmail label/folder".

I explained in #121 how you make your own version of "All Mail" on the Gmail server side which works with BB10 and Outlook.

Originally Posted by BCITMike

Are you reading the same thread as us in terms of attack and insults? Look at OPS remarks.

We think "you're doing it wrong" and explaining why. You're saying "because I want to do it this backwards way". There's very little rational and you have a work around available to you. You're also in the minority.

Nothing is stopping you from archiving. Is removing all labels and having it in one big "All mail" folder beneficial in some way?

I think this is circular because we are not on the "All mail" bandwagon, don't use it and don't see why one would. I still don't know the argument for having it other than "because everyone else has it", problems be damned.


Posted via CB10

Point taken about the OPs remarks.

However, I'm not "doing it wrong." That's your opinion. But that's all it is, YOUR OPINION. Please elaborate your "this backwards way" statement. The best I can figure is because I don't want to manage my mail the way you do.

I don't want you to be on the "All Mail" bandwagon. I don't even want you to agree with me. Just stop making excuses for BB10's lack of functionality. More importantly, accept that others can and will do things differently from you.

Originally Posted by tw_

No. I know how to subscribe to IMAP folders in Outlook. I used Outlook since 2003. I can query the Gmail server for the IMAP folder in Outlook 2013 and I see the All Mail folder there and I can mark it as subscribed. But by some "magic" the folder will not become visible in the account.


I explained in #121 how you make your own version of "All Mail" on the Gmail server side which works with BB10 and Outlook.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/o...1-0816ac6412ef

Yes, the "magic" is a bug. It's an Outlook 2013 bug. Different solutions for different people, such as:
"All that is needed is tick "only show subscribed". No need to do anything else assuming you have subscribed to all folders."



People, the OP knows the workaround (post #9), he just doesn't accept it. Nothing less than having "All Mail" as a destination is a solution to the OP. Nothing left to be said, work arounds are not of interest to OP or to Jerry A. He can try and reach out to BlackBerry for an official stance on this, but I'm afraid it won't be in a polite way.

Originally Posted by kgbbz10

All mail isn't a folder, it pulls emails from folders. It's aesthetic that's it.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

And yet it is. On other IMAP clients it does present itself as a folder. Heck, on BB10 prior to 10.3.2.xxxx it presented itself on a folder. Even on BBOS6+ you could properly delete or archive and get to "All Mail" without stupid workarounds.

Is this where you now insert your response of "look at my original response" and then continue to pretend the issue doesn't exist? We've done this dance a few times. Can we just stop?

Originally Posted by Jerry A

@diegonei Thanks for all the screenshots. Can you show me the one for filing to All Mail?

Otherwise, you're just reinforcing the original issue which is that it can't be done.

I want to give you, friend, the most sincerest thanks I have ever said to anyone on these forums.

These poor people have such low reading comprehension or they are just vilifying (as you say) and/or being willfully ignorant.

Essentially it is comparable to if I had an issue with my phone ring tone and they were telling me to set my text messages notification. They aren't listening to what the real problem is.

I feel like I'm arguing with JWs at my front door. People, I used to eat, sleep, and breathe BlackBerry, but I will not ever vociferously defend a product that is lacking in any way. And by blaming my preference you are blaming the victim essentially - the victim of a poor email client that is supposed to be the best in business.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Originally Posted by BCITMike

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/o...1-0816ac6412ef

Yes, the "magic" is a bug. It's an Outlook 2013 bug. Different solutions for different people, such as:
"All that is needed is tick "only show subscribed". No need to do anything else assuming you have subscribed to all folders."

Thanks for the link but I already tried pretty much all of that what has been recommended there. I also jumped on one foot during full moon to no avail.

Anyway it is not important for me. I don't need this folder. Also it appears the bug is there since two years and Microsoft doesn't seem to care to fix it either.

People, the OP knows the workaround (post #9), he just doesn't accept it. Nothing less than having "All Mail" as a destination is a solution to the OP. Nothing left to be said, work arounds are not of interest to OP or to Jerry A. He can try and reach out to BlackBerry for an official stance on this, but I'm afraid it won't be in a polite way.

Ok. But I still think both don't understand how the labeling in Gmail works in the first place.

Originally Posted by BCITMike

[People, the OP knows the workaround (post #9), he just doesn't accept it. Nothing less than having "All Mail" as a destination is a solution to the OP. Nothing left to be said, work arounds are not of interest to OP or to Jerry A. He can try and reach out to BlackBerry for an official stance on this, but I'm afraid it won't be in a polite way.

I think we all get that there's a workaround. Looking at it another way, recognizing that there's a limitation in functionality with the current BB10 implementation seems to be of no interest to kgbbz10 or yourself.

Originally Posted by Jerry A

And yet it is. On other IMAP clients it does present itself as a folder. Heck, on BB10 prior to 10.3.2.xxxx it presented itself on a folder. Even on BBOS6+ you could properly delete or archive and get to "All Mail" without stupid workarounds.

Is this where you now insert your response of "look at my original response" and then continue to pretend the issue doesn't exist? We've done this dance a few times. Can we just stop?

Ok I just spent some time in Google settings. All mail is set to sync, everything is set to sync. Only thing that doesn't sync is All Mail. There is apparently nothing you can do. If you go out and research this to exhaustion then I hope you find a solution. But as everyone else has also told you it's not possible.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

Originally Posted by kgbbz10

Well teacher, I gave you step by step instructions on how to achieve what you came on here *****ing about. Maybe you failed how to follow instructions, maybe you're just too fussy, or maybe you're just a Google shill who wanted to whine and tell everyone how you hate BlackBerry and you're leaving, or maybe it's all three.

Doesn't really matter as your backwards way of deleting an email and having it archive instead of delete makes no sense to anyone who can logically think. You have a delete option and an archive option. Sorry that isn't good enough for you.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

No archive option other than filing to another label which isn't archiving, that's filing. And that's quite silly and inconvenient of a work around. And I already knew that one before you said it. And I told you that. You just aren't reading - you are defending BlackBerry as if they care about you. The sooner you realize they are completely inferior at this point, the better you are.



--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Originally Posted by tw_

Ok. But I still think both don't understand how the labeling in Gmail works in the first place.

Care to explain how you reached this conclusion?

Originally Posted by Jerry A

Point taken about the OPs remarks.

However, I'm not "doing it wrong." That's your opinion. But that's all it is, YOUR OPINION. Please elaborate your "this backwards way" statement. The best I can figure is because I don't want to manage my mail the way you do.

I don't want you to be on the "All Mail" bandwagon. I don't even want you to agree with me. Just stop making excuses for BB10's lack of functionality. More importantly, accept that others can and will do things differently from you.

Your thinking:
Delete != delete.

My thinking:
Delete = Delete
file = Archive

Therefore, backwards.

This whole "archive" but still there is confusing. When you "Archive" something in a desktop client, the emails are removed from the server and no longer syncing. With Gmail, archives are not pushed off to the side and only called upon when searched intentionally, it's the same as just organizing email in a desktop client. So "archive" in Gmail's sense seems ambiguous to me.

I still don't understand your work flow/triage to make sense of why you handle email this way. We just don't understand. You're not helping, just defending.

Why can't you accept Gmail has intentionally introduced a non-standard feature intentionally to cause problems for standard clients and does not properly support mail clients to be able to handle this feature?

Why can't you accept that the majority of people do not see benefit of this feature and may cause additional storage and battery impact?

Why do you keep thinking that this "feature" should be treated like a standard and every client has to put in a kludge to support Gmail's proprietary feature?

I don't think YOU are "accept[ing] that others can and will do things differently from you", in fact, the majority. I feel a *whoosh* when you say things like that and we're talking right past each other.

Originally Posted by kgbbz10

It's not a short coming it's logic. Delete deletes, archive archives. What the OP and you want are completely illogical ways of doing it so obviously you can't understand, you're missing the logic.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

I don't want delete to archive. That was a workaround because BlackBerry never did it right from day one.

But I preferred that over BlackBerry suddenly silently trashing my emails.

And my real preference is to have delete delete, and archive archive. And if no direct archive function, then have all mail as a map option for deleting.

That simple. It's not backwards. You just aren't reading it. I'm sorry to can't read properly.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Originally Posted by STV0726

I want to give you, friend, the most sincerest thanks I have ever said to anyone on these forums.

These poor people have such low reading comprehension or they are just vilifying (as you say) and/or being willfully ignorant.

Essentially it is comparable to if I had an issue with my phone ring tone and they were telling me to set my text messages notification. They aren't listening to what the real problem is.

I feel like I'm arguing with JWs at my front door. People, I used to eat, sleep, and breathe BlackBerry, but I will not ever vociferously defend a product that is lacking in any way. And by blaming my preference you are blaming the victim essentially - the victim of a poor email client that is supposed to be the best in business.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Dude nobody needs reading comprehension so stop thinking you're all high and mighty already. If you were so special you'd figure it out for yourself and realize what you want isn't possible. Instead of jumping on here with your irate and poorly worded rant. Nobody could understand you because you failed to clearify yourself teacher... highly doubful given your lack of communication skills.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

Originally Posted by STV0726

I don't want delete to archive. That was a workaround because BlackBerry never did it right from day one.

But I preferred that over BlackBerry suddenly silently trashing my emails.

And my real preference is to have delete delete, and archive archive. And if no direct archive function, then have all mail as a map option for deleting.

That simple. It's not backwards. You just aren't reading it. I'm sorry to can't read properly.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

"I don't want delete to archive. " != "all mail as a map option for deleting"

Does not compute.

Originally Posted by STV0726

I don't want delete to archive. That was a workaround because BlackBerry never did it right from day one.

But I preferred that over BlackBerry suddenly silently trashing my emails.

And my real preference is to have delete delete, and archive archive. And if no direct archive function, then have all mail as a map option for deleting.

That simple. It's not backwards. You just aren't reading it. I'm sorry to can't read properly.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Muphry's law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

Originally Posted by kgbbz10

Dude nobody needs reading comprehension so stop thinking you're all high and mighty already. If you were so special you'd figure it out for yourself and realize what you want isn't possible. Instead of jumping on here with your irate and poorly worded rant. Nobody could understand you because you failed to clearify yourself teacher... highly doubful given your lack of communication skills.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

Lol, you do realize I knew it wasn't possible the moment I created this thread, right? The point of this thread is to make an issue that is so severe that could cause data loss a priority. This should be on headlines.

The old way of delete archiving was not ideal. I get that. I really do. But with us all thinking it was doing that, suddenly when they switched it, you start really losing emails that maybe you wanted to keep in all mail.

I remember searching for an email from one of my bosses and when I couldn't find it...well, that's when I discovered the Hub started really trashing my emails.

You see, that's the benefit of archiving instead of deleting. You just never know when you need to revisit something in writing that you may have not marked as important before.

Let me just be real clear and overt:

1. I always knew you could set to delete in Hub only as a workaround

2. I always knew you could make it label which it will sync and use that as a workaround

3. I always knew you could stop using BlackBerry Hub

But I believe in brutal honesty. Kind of like TH said but didn't mean. Well I mean it. Being frank, this isn't good enough. BlackBerry needs to address this. And you folks making it sound like archiving and supporting the number one webmail provider doesn't matter remind me of those who say women still don't need to vote today.

Forward, people, forward.

I am sorry for being rude, I am. It was uncalled for. I became very frustrated when it seemed no one was actually reading what the issue really was.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6576?hl=en

Why archive?

Clean up your inbox by getting messages out of your way.
Archived messages stay in your account in case you need to find a phone number in someone’s signature or you become famous and write a memoir.
When you delete a message (instead of archiving), it will be automatically and permanently deleted after about 30 days.

So by using labels/folders with proper names (ie, "Bills", "stock tips"), first and second points satisfied.
Yes, this is obvious. The give away being "delete".

I need more "Why" for using Gmail's use of "All Mail" to "Archive". The only benefit I can see having emails stored without a specific label, but not in your inbox. Is this the benefit you are going for?

Originally Posted by STV0726

Lol, you do realize I knew it wasn't possible the moment I created this thread, right? The point of this thread is to make an issue that is so severe that could cause data loss a priority. This should be on headlines.

The old way of delete archiving was not ideal. I get that. I really do. But with us all thinking it was doing that, suddenly when they switched it, you start really losing emails that maybe you wanted to keep in all mail.

I remember searching for an email from one of my bosses and when I couldn't find it...well, that's when I discovered the Hub started really trashing my emails.

Let me just be real clear and overt:

1. I always knew you could set to delete in Hub only as a workaround

2. I always knew you could make it label which it will sync and use that as a workaround

3. I always knew you could stop using BlackBerry Hub

But I believe in brutal honesty. Kind of like TH said but didn't mean. Well I mean it. Being frank, this isn't good enough. BlackBerry needs to address this. And you folks making it sound like archiving and supporting the number one webmail provider doesn't matter remind me of those who say women still don't need to vote today.

Forward, people, forward.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

LOL. Yes, totally on the same page, exact comparison. Jesus Christ... SMH.

You do realize that many, many software and services officially "support" another feature or service but not necessarily 100%? If you go look at the open source Exchange type software, they all claim to support various things and then they'll have a table of all the features not supported and implemented. These are subsets of features or corner cases not applicable to the masses.

Does Gmail on BB10 work? YES. Out of 100 common things that can be done, can 90%+ work? YES.

Originally Posted by BCITMike

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6576?hl=en



So by using labels/folders with proper names (ie, "Bills", "stock tips"), first and second points satisfied.
Yes, this is obvious. The give away being "delete".

I need more "Why" for using Gmail's use of "All Mail" to "Archive". The only benefit I can see having emails stored without a specific label, but not in your inbox. Is this the benefit you are going for?

I concede this argument. The thread has gotten long enough that hopefully enough negative attention has been drawn to this issue.

Just remember, the odds are against BlackBerry. Any inconsistencies in their software can make it or break it at this point, especially if they want any success whatsoever on Android.

Thank you to those who at least considered what I was saying.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Originally Posted by BCITMike

LOL. Yes, totally on the same page, exact comparison. Jesus Christ... SMH.

Yes, it actually is comparable. Shake your head, but not at me.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Originally Posted by STV0726

Lol, you do realize I knew it wasn't possible the moment I created this thread, right? The point of this thread is to make an issue that is so severe that could cause data loss a priority. This should be on headlines.

The old way of delete archiving was not ideal. I get that. I really do. But with us all thinking it was doing that, suddenly when they switched it, you start really losing emails that maybe you wanted to keep in all mail.

I remember searching for an email from one of my bosses and when I couldn't find it...well, that's when I discovered the Hub started really trashing my emails.

You see, that's the benefit of archiving instead of deleting. You just never know when you need to revisit something in writing that you may have not marked as important before.

Let me just be real clear and overt:

1. I always knew you could set to delete in Hub only as a workaround

2. I always knew you could make it label which it will sync and use that as a workaround

3. I always knew you could stop using BlackBerry Hub

But I believe in brutal honesty. Kind of like TH said but didn't mean. Well I mean it. Being frank, this isn't good enough. BlackBerry needs to address this. And you folks making it sound like archiving and supporting the number one webmail provider doesn't matter remind me of those who say women still don't need to vote today.

Forward, people, forward.

I am sorry for being rude, I am. It was uncalled for. I became very frustrated when it seemed no one was actually reading what the issue really was.

--STV posting from his now-legacy, relic BlackBerry Z30

Ok as I've stated numerous times you CAN archive emails in Gmail. You CAN select which folders to send that email to. You CAN sync ALL FOLDERS which is the exact same thing as All Mail. The emails DO go to the folder you choose to archive them in. The emails DO get removed from the inbox. The only thing you can NOT do is add the All Mail label to the Hub.

None of this is done with workarounds, it's all done under the Hub settings. This is not an oversight or a limitation in the Hub, it is a Gmail thing, BlackBerry is not Google. So unless there's something else I'm missing I'm pretty sure I've given you everything you need to fix your complaint.

BBClassic10.3.2.2639

Originally Posted by Jerry A

Care to explain how you reached this conclusion?

I already explained it. Because you want to "save" something to to the "All Mail" folder which makes no sense since by definition all mails are always there.

Also you don't understand what "archiving" is. When you use Androids Gmail app and you "archive" a mail all it is doing is removing the "Inbox" label. So it is only visible in the "All Mail" folder. But it doesn't move the mail to that folder or something.

This is the reason the workaround I described in #121 works. It just keeps an additional label to all mails.