[markmall]

I cheat. My sister in law is a contracts attorney and one of my best friends is a patent lawyer.

Then you need to make friends with an anti-trust lawyer.

Posted via CB10

[Thud Hardsmack]

Then you need to make friends with an anti-trust lawyer.

Posted via CB10

And you need to actually read what antitrust entails. It's more than just a buzzword to trot out in defense of tenuous monopoly accusations.

[conite]

Then you need to make friends with an anti-trust lawyer.

Posted via CB10

I don't get it.

You claim anti-trust, but not a single court in the world has determined that.

[BigBadWulf]

I don't get it.

You claim anti-trust, but not a single court in the world has determined that.

I get it. He hates the Google, and I'm ok with that. I have no infatuation with them, but I'm not so angry I run around CrackBerry behaving like Don Quixote either.

[sorinv]

It does, and because users are given a choice to shut it off, they're in the clear.

I don't use Google services yet they lurk on every webpage on the Internet, trying to steal my data and monitor my clicks without my permission.

Even for those who use Google services, that's not a choice. It's no service or your data, your money or your life.
If they were an honest company, they would charge money for their services. But they don't. They wouldn't make as much money if they did.
Like this, they take advantage of poor people who can't afford to pay for their addiction and who have no idea what their data is worth.
It's worth all of Google's profit, because Google doesn't make any money outside search.

Posted via CB10

[Thud Hardsmack]

That's not a choice. It's no service or your data: your money or your life.
If they were an honest company, they would charge money for their services, but they don't. They wouldn't make as much money if they did.
Like this they profit from poor people who can't afford to pay for their addiction and they have no idea what their data are worth.
It's worth all of Google's profit, because Google doesn't make any money outside search.

Posted via CB10

Transparency and choice

[sorinv]

Transparency and choice

Nope. They lurk on every page on the Internet and track you and your clicks even if you don't use their services and even if you don't have a Google account or Gmail. I have neither and don't do Google search, still they track my clicks even on internal company websites, even on wesites that are meant to keep confidential information falling under Canadian privacy rules.
For example, Google Analytics tracks all the clicks made on Blackboard, which is the system used by most universities in North America to store students information, including their grades, etc.
Google most likely knows all the marks of all the students in those universities, when they view information, when they read something, what they read, what marks they get.
Most of those students are not aware that this is happening and they had no choice or input in the decision that Blackboard tracks their clicks.
Nor has anyone informed them that that is going on.


I admire the zeal with which some of you here defend Google at every step as if they were your mother...but still it makes no sense and does not make it right.

They bribe governments to turn a blind eye and not enforce privacy laws. Only the EU has been strong enough to take them to court for their monopolistic ways.

Posted via CB10

[Thud Hardsmack]

Nope. They lurk on every page on the Internet and track and your clicks you even if you don't use their services.
I admire the zeal with which some of you here defend Google at every step as if they were your mother...but still it makes no sense and does not make it right.

They bribe governments to turn a blind eye and not enforce privacy laws. Only the EU has been strong enough to take them to court for their monopolistic ways.

Posted via CB10

You can dial back the derogatory commentary, we're merely pointing out facts to prevent uninformed members from donning tinfoil hats and hiding out in bunkers.

[sorinv]

You can dial back the derogatory commentary, we're merely pointing out facts to prevent uninformed members from donning tinfoil hats and hiding out in bunkers.

Sure, if you consider that "defending google as if it were your mother" is more derogatory than "tinfoil hats and hiding out in bunkers", then I withdraw it. But you should check the facts about blackboard.

Posted via CB10

[markmall]

I don't use Google services yet they lurk on every webpage on the Internet, trying to steal my data and monitor my clicks without my permission.

Even for those who use Google services, that's not a choice. It's no service or your data, your money or your life.
If they were an honest company, they would charge money for their services. But they don't. They wouldn't make as much money if they did.
Like this, they take advantage of poor people who can't afford to pay for their addiction and who have no idea what their data is worth.
It's worth all of Google's profit, because Google doesn't make any money outside search.

Posted via CB10

For some it's not an addiction. I would not cut Google that much slack. People rely on the internet for work and essential tasks.

[thurask]

Since it's 2017 (a bold statement on this forum), the only way to be truly outside all tracking from websites, ad providers, ISPs, OEMs, governments, 400lb hackers, the Girl Scouts, etc. is to live in a shack in the woods and party like it's 1799. That would jeopardize access to CrackBerry, but is some forum on the Internet worth the lizard people getting inside your head?

The claptrap here about the issue of privacy and how many multiples of Hitler Google is falls victim to the usual CrackBerry argument tropes. First, the "BlackBerry Master Race" line of mental attack. Contrary to the evil cabal of Apple, Google, and Microsoft (and every other company/government on the planet), BlackBerry is the champion of privacy, since there is no potential for abuse, and the user always comes first. No, because one has a Lawful Good BlackBerry they're protected from threats from everywhere. Analytics and advertising have no place here, and are relegated to inferior platforms (admittedly, BlackBerry shuttered their advertisement services, but see #3). And as for the issue of providing an app store being an anti-trust violation large enough to give Theodore Roosevelt the willies from beyond the grave (apparently), why not ask the government to step in to subsidize the little guy? Never mind the fact that the little guy also has their own store pre-installed on their devices, but there's no pearl clutching about that. They're kosher. The amount of conspiracy theorycrafting here to make those at BlackBerry saints and the remaining 7 billion people in the world sinners makes the dark reaches of the Internet blush. Occam's razor is a handy thing to keep around when determining just which US President was the first one to be replaced by a clone from Mountain View (it's Jimmy Carter, by the way).

Second, the machine gun burst of "if only!"s that threads like this lead to. "If only BB10 had the apps that people needed! If only people weren't such beguiled sheep! If only companies didn't need to make money!". Unless one has a tricked out DeLorean, these "if only"s are just aids for people to "enjoy" themselves thinking about them. The amount of societal/economic change to bring about requiring signed and notarized consent in triplicate before asking one's name to pick up a takeout order, or an alternate universe wherein each resident of Earth receives a bespoke smartphone with their choice of size, shape, insides and outside, would lead to the cure for cancer, colonies on Mars, and warp travel before wasting such Herculean amounts of effort on trivialities like square screens or OS choice. Upending the current and absurdly lucrative data-based business model that's set in over the past decade in the tech industry (and intelligence for that matter) requires either installing some communist in the White House, or the aforementioned DeLorean. Were a fraction of the concentrated whining here diverted to letters to one's member of Congress, perhaps some changes could be effected, but to do so would require effort on the part of the whiners, and things like effort and research only distract from fruitless whining. Think about the future, not the past; but what are threads like this other than a collective re-living of "the good old days"?

Thirdly, "you mean there's a chance?" as applied to BB10. No, there isn't. BB10 is as alive as Francisco Franco. As much as reading and doing research is frowned upon by the tin foil hat brigade (why let facts get in the way of a good panic?), just read Losing the Signal. I'm serious, it's worth the money, or go to a library if there's GPS tracking chips embedded inside the dollar bills. Break into a bookstore and read it if libraries are evil Google plots or something like that. No matter how you read it, if one reaches the end wondering why people stopped listening to Mike Lazaridis, and are waiting patiently for BB10 to break out of its crypt and take the market by storm, then congratulations, you've won CB Bad Argument Bingo in one shot. For the rest, it manages to illustrate not only how Mike and Jim went full steam ahead from success into disaster, but also the mess Chen had to turn around fast, but that's for another thread.

And finally, the "it's fine for me!" bubble of myopia. You don't use cloud storage/backup/documents, enterprise MDM, instant messaging, or social media. Having fun on a phone is verboten. Your mobile communication makes no difference whether it's a Q10 or a 5810. Good for you. Great job. But since you're still here, you're more than likely one of these folks. You're the king of individuality, or you live in the woods and mail pipe bombs to people, or you have anterograde amnesia since 2009. Whatever it is, BB10 provides just the right mix of pre-installed apps (indolence), up to date security (where in the world is 10.3.4?), and hipster iconoclast cachet (OK I'll give you that one). That might work for you, but you're one person. Companies cannot target their device strategy to one person. Companies target to many people (shocker), and therefore aim to provide goods and services that are appealing to people. The myriad array of Google/Apple services are very enticing to the consumer, since GMail, Google Maps, iTunes, and the rest of their respective ecosystems provide extraordinary convenience. I get to stream my music streaming from Google Play Music to my Chromecast Audio connected to my speakers without having to bother with wires or Bluetooth. And since I'm at home Smart Lock keeps my device unlocked so it doesn't get in the way when I don't need it to. Yes, they're oiled with analytics. But that's the tradeoff. Paying up front is a turnoff, as spending tangible dollars is less appealing than "free", or spending intangible analytics. For the vast majority of consumers, the tradeoff works in their favor. Shackling oneself to 1990s sensibilities care of Mike Lazaridis, secret handshakes, and seven proxies, is necessary to few and burdensome to most.

With that albatross consumer idea in mind, I like to see the holdouts as holding the same mindset as Mike Lazaridis; change is bad, agents of change are evil, that which does not change is superior. BB10, owing to its development staff leaving for greener pastures and its general lack of traction with people that matter, can't change. It provides the familiar "conveniences" of awful desktop software, desolate app libraries, eccentric form factors, and infrequent update schedules. Oftentimes, thinking like that provides solutions in search of a problem; one could point to the entirety of BIS or BlackBerry Bridge, as the prime examples thereof. These solve problems that only exist inside BlackBerry's imagination, not the reality of the phone market. Blend, as much as I liked it, existed in a space between enterprise management (being a worse Outlook) and plebeian smartphones (excluding messengers other than BBM, and assuming the user doesn't have Dropbox or anything like that), satisfying neither. Furthermore, you see the device concept threads that boil down to "exactly the same as the Classic/Passport/Z30 but with bleeding edge hardware", as the faithful latch onto whichever device fills their niche long past the point of expiration. The white knuckled grasping at whatever advertisement, acquisition, developer bribe or dream device BlackBerry needed to put out invariably leads to an alternate universe where the OP of whichever thread that is has their dream version of BB10, and with the desires of the rest of the world molded to fit their fantasies such that all consumers think like they do. Now, the well-oiled machines of Android and iOS are threats to this status quo. How can one seamlessly interface their smartphone with their car when it should be an ordeal? Why are these apps updating ("they never needed to update on BB10" is my particularly favorite nugget of defensiveness)? How come I can watch videos on this phone without serious letterboxing? The list goes on, but BB10 does not. Coming to terms with its passing is ultimately easier than continuing to live in the reality distortion field generated by this forum. And while privacy is an important thing, acknowledging that one cannot roll back the clock to a pre-data age is better for one's mental health. Learn to survive in the new era, not rage, rage against the passage of the time.

The moral of the story is that these speculation threads can all be answered with the same statement: it happened, deal with it. Google and Apple are kings of the roost, it happened, deal with it. BlackBerry 10 is dead, it happened, deal with it. Data and analytics are here to stay, it happened, deal with it. This forum especially likes to focus on generating alternative facts about the first part of each sentence, mostly to avoid having to think about the last part. But, saying this as one who lived through BB10, from day one with the Z10 to day one with the Priv, you'll wonder why the hell you didn't switch earlier when you do. And since this is a free forum, you're welcome to disregard this post as the rantings of a paid Google shill (if it's a paid job then I'm due some serious back pay) as much as I'm welcome to dismiss other posts as the rantings of Ted Kaczynski. But if it cracks open someone's safe space, then I think I'd have done some good at least.

[mrfreeze]

What he said ^

tl;dr - Just read the last paragraph. But it's all worth the read.

[markmall]

What he said ^

tl;dr - Just read the last paragraph. But it's all worth the read.

I perused it. I read things like "No, there isn't. BB10 is as alive as Francisco Franco." Then I double-checked that this is the BB10 forum. Why post this on the BB10 boards? If you think it's so dead, enjoy your DTEK and throw shade at BB10 on the Android boards.

I don't think there will be another BB10 device either. So what? The discussion was why and when, not if. If this is a waste of time for you, you can stop trolling the BB10 forums.

[markmall]

Also, I can't believe you wrote that much.

[blackbp]

Since it's 2017 (a bold statement on this forum), the only way to be truly outside all tracking from websites, ad providers, ISPs, OEMs, governments, 400lb hackers, the Girl Scouts, etc. is to live in a shack in the woods and party like it's 1799. That would jeopardize access to CrackBerry, but is some forum on the Internet worth the lizard people getting inside your head?

The claptrap here about the issue of privacy and how many multiples of Hitler Google is falls victim to the usual CrackBerry argument tropes. First, the "BlackBerry Master Race" line of mental attack. Contrary to the evil cabal of Apple, Google, and Microsoft (and every other company/government on the planet), BlackBerry is the champion of privacy, since there is no potential for abuse, and the user always comes first. No, because one has a Lawful Good BlackBerry they're protected from threats from everywhere. Analytics and advertising have no place here, and are relegated to inferior platforms (admittedly, BlackBerry shuttered their advertisement services, but see #3). And as for the issue of providing an app store being an anti-trust violation large enough to give Theodore Roosevelt the willies from beyond the grave (apparently), why not ask the government to step in to subsidize the little guy? Never mind the fact that the little guy also has their own store pre-installed on their devices, but there's no pearl clutching about that. They're kosher. The amount of conspiracy theorycrafting here to make those at BlackBerry saints and the remaining 7 billion people in the world sinners makes the dark reaches of the Internet blush. Occam's razor is a handy thing to keep around when determining just which US President was the first one to be replaced by a clone from Mountain View (it's Jimmy Carter, by the way).

Second, the machine gun burst of "if only!"s that threads like this lead to. "If only BB10 had the apps that people needed! If only people weren't such beguiled sheep! If only companies didn't need to make money!". Unless one has a tricked out DeLorean, these "if only"s are just aids for people to "enjoy" themselves thinking about them. The amount of societal/economic change to bring about requiring signed and notarized consent in triplicate before asking one's name to pick up a takeout order, or an alternate universe wherein each resident of Earth receives a bespoke smartphone with their choice of size, shape, insides and outside, would lead to the cure for cancer, colonies on Mars, and warp travel before wasting such Herculean amounts of effort on trivialities like square screens or OS choice. Upending the current and absurdly lucrative data-based business model that's set in over the past decade in the tech industry (and intelligence for that matter) requires either installing some communist in the White House, or the aforementioned DeLorean. Were a fraction of the concentrated whining here diverted to letters to one's member of Congress, perhaps some changes could be effected, but to do so would require effort on the part of the whiners, and things like effort and research only distract from fruitless whining. Think about the future, not the past; but what are threads like this other than a collective re-living of "the good old days"?

Thirdly, "you mean there's a chance?" as applied to BB10. No, there isn't. BB10 is as alive as Francisco Franco. As much as reading and doing research is frowned upon by the tin foil hat brigade (why let facts get in the way of a good panic?), just read Losing the Signal. I'm serious, it's worth the money, or go to a library if there's GPS tracking chips embedded inside the dollar bills. Break into a bookstore and read it if libraries are evil Google plots or something like that. No matter how you read it, if one reaches the end wondering why people stopped listening to Mike Lazaridis, and are waiting patiently for BB10 to break out of its crypt and take the market by storm, then congratulations, you've won CB Bad Argument Bingo in one shot. For the rest, it manages to illustrate not only how Mike and Jim went full steam ahead from success into disaster, but also the mess Chen had to turn around fast, but that's for another thread.

And finally, the "it's fine for me!" bubble of myopia. You don't use cloud storage/backup/documents, enterprise MDM, instant messaging, or social media. Having fun on a phone is verboten. Your mobile communication makes no difference whether it's a Q10 or a 5810. Good for you. Great job. But since you're still here, you're more than likely one of these folks. You're the king of individuality, or you live in the woods and mail pipe bombs to people, or you have anterograde amnesia since 2009. Whatever it is, BB10 provides just the right mix of pre-installed apps (indolence), up to date security (where in the world is 10.3.4?), and hipster iconoclast cachet (OK I'll give you that one). That might work for you, but you're one person. Companies cannot target their device strategy to one person. Companies target to many people (shocker), and therefore aim to provide goods and services that are appealing to people. The myriad array of Google/Apple services are very enticing to the consumer, since GMail, Google Maps, iTunes, and the rest of their respective ecosystems provide extraordinary convenience. I get to stream my music streaming from Google Play Music to my Chromecast Audio connected to my speakers without having to bother with wires or Bluetooth. And since I'm at home Smart Lock keeps my device unlocked so it doesn't get in the way when I don't need it to. Yes, they're oiled with analytics. But that's the tradeoff. Paying up front is a turnoff, as spending tangible dollars is less appealing than "free", or spending intangible analytics. For the vast majority of consumers, the tradeoff works in their favor. Shackling oneself to 1990s sensibilities care of Mike Lazaridis, secret handshakes, and seven proxies, is necessary to few and burdensome to most.

With that albatross consumer idea in mind, I like to see the holdouts as holding the same mindset as Mike Lazaridis; change is bad, agents of change are evil, that which does not change is superior. BB10, owing to its development staff leaving for greener pastures and its general lack of traction with people that matter, can't change. It provides the familiar "conveniences" of awful desktop software, desolate app libraries, eccentric form factors, and infrequent update schedules. Oftentimes, thinking like that provides solutions in search of a problem; one could point to the entirety of BIS or BlackBerry Bridge, as the prime examples thereof. These solve problems that only exist inside BlackBerry's imagination, not the reality of the phone market. Blend, as much as I liked it, existed in a space between enterprise management (being a worse Outlook) and plebeian smartphones (excluding messengers other than BBM, and assuming the user doesn't have Dropbox or anything like that), satisfying neither. Furthermore, you see the device concept threads that boil down to "exactly the same as the Classic/Passport/Z30 but with bleeding edge hardware", as the faithful latch onto whichever device fills their niche long past the point of expiration. The white knuckled grasping at whatever advertisement, acquisition, developer bribe or dream device BlackBerry needed to put out invariably leads to an alternate universe where the OP of whichever thread that is has their dream version of BB10, and with the desires of the rest of the world molded to fit their fantasies such that all consumers think like they do. Now, the well-oiled machines of Android and iOS are threats to this status quo. How can one seamlessly interface their smartphone with their car when it should be an ordeal? Why are these apps updating ("they never needed to update on BB10" is my particularly favorite nugget of defensiveness)? How come I can watch videos on this phone without serious letterboxing? The list goes on, but BB10 does not. Coming to terms with its passing is ultimately easier than continuing to live in the reality distortion field generated by this forum. And while privacy is an important thing, acknowledging that one cannot roll back the clock to a pre-data age is better for one's mental health. Learn to survive in the new era, not rage, rage against the passage of the time.

The moral of the story is that these speculation threads can all be answered with the same statement: it happened, deal with it. Google and Apple are kings of the roost, it happened, deal with it. BlackBerry 10 is dead, it happened, deal with it. Data and analytics are here to stay, it happened, deal with it. This forum especially likes to focus on generating alternative facts about the first part of each sentence, mostly to avoid having to think about the last part. But, saying this as one who lived through BB10, from day one with the Z10 to day one with the Priv, you'll wonder why the hell you didn't switch earlier when you do. And since this is a free forum, you're welcome to disregard this post as the rantings of a paid Google shill (if it's a paid job then I'm due some serious back pay) as much as I'm welcome to dismiss other posts as the rantings of Ted Kaczynski. But if it cracks open someone's safe space, then I think I'd have done some good at least.

Hahahaha you don't need all these words to live happy with your googledroid

Posted via CB10

[Soulstream]

Also, I can't believe you wrote that much.

I sometimes write long posts too. I think for me it stems from a certain frustration with some users inability to grasp reality. We are labeled as BB haters. But you have to remember some of us have been through the "hypervisor craze" that happened around the Priv launch. That was probably the silliest thing that happened on this forum.

We, the "BB haters", were labeled as that because we said (lots and lots of times) that the whole hypervisor thing, while cool, will not be done on the priv. That's why the hypervisor thing became a meme here on CB: it was so funny on how "violently" people defended that theory, that it actually became funny (and stupid at the same time).

I, for one, don't intentionally spread misinformation. I always try to explain what I think and, when needed, provide sources for my claims.

[keliew]

I read the essay with a probable mark of 50/100 to suit everyone's 'happiness'.

We gotta learn to deal with life as is. Or be damn good enough to make changes by taking the lead in whatever position required. Trump did it.

BlackBerry Passport via CB10

[Emaderton3]

I read the essay with a probable mark of 50/100 to suit everyone's 'happiness'.

We gotta learn to deal with life as is. Or be damn good enough to make changes by taking the lead in whatever position required. Trump did it.

BlackBerry Passport via CB10

We all like convenience but hate change, so we resist. I don't want to change either. My Q10 does the basics I need, but I am missing out on so much more. It's just like when I got a new car after finally giving up my beat up Civic. It still got me from point A to B, but I I finally realized it was time. But when I looked at new cars, I scoffed--why do I need a 6 disk CD changer? Why do I need heated seats? And now, the convenience is nice and not something I would give up.

I transitioned from BBOS to my Q10 when they first came out. My wife couldn't get the apps she wanted, so she gave up on BlackBerry and got a Galaxy. And she didn't like it at first. She missed her keyboard. I would make fun of her. As years went by, I soon realized I was the one behind. The writing is on the wall. And my wife wouldn't go back if you paid her--she has adjusted to her new convenience level, and it is working just fine.

I will switch phones some day, kicking and screaming, but probably with a secretive smile. . .

Posted via CB10

[The_Passporter]

I don't get it.

You claim anti-trust, but not a single court in the world has determined that.

Is not the UK trying to take Google to court regarding their tight hand on many apps that are pre installed or that don't work on non approved devices by Google. (Google Play Services)

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/tech...awsuit-europe/

The web is full of cases and I'm sure it's not going away nor stopping any time soon. So to say there is no case I think that is a broad and general statement that was used loosely. Just cause no one has won against Google's pockests does not determine there is no case. They are doing the same thing Microsoft did with their Windows PC software and they had to modify their software to comply.

Posted via CB10

[The_Passporter]

What part of Google owns their store are you not following? It's theirs. They own it it. They curate it. They maintain it. Android doesn't come with it, they added it. The other members of the OHA add their own if they choose, like Amazon has, but if they want to use something (the Google Play Store) that is owned by another company (Google) then the company that owns it gets to set the rules. This is very different from what Microsoft did with Windows back when they had their proceedings, there was no base Windows that other companies could morph to their own needs.

Not so different as you have to download a third party app the make the change in default applications. This is exactly the same as Microsoft who were forced to add an option built right into the OS that let's you make the Change. Most people would not know to look for such an app if they don't see the functionality built right in. This is deception and antitrust, that is a fact cause it has already been proven. I think at the very least there will be a case won with the right money backing and angle. Give it time boys.

http://www.androidauthority.com/chan...roid-2-633572/

Again just cause no one has won a case against the deep pockets of Google does not mean there is no case.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Again just cause no one has won a case against the deep pockets of Google does not mean there is no case.

Posted via CB10

But you can't say Google IS running afoul of anti-trust until then.

[The_Passporter]

But you can't say Google IS running afoul of anti-trust until then.

Lol let's just say it's a grey area for now

Posted via CB10

[brookie229]

Since it's 2017 (a bold statement on this forum), the only way to be truly outside all tracking from websites, ad providers, ISPs, OEMs, governments, 400lb hackers, the Girl Scouts, etc. is to live in a shack in the woods and party like it's 1799. That would jeopardize access to CrackBerry, but is some forum on the Internet worth the lizard people getting inside your head?

The claptrap here about the issue of privacy and how many multiples of Hitler Google is falls victim to the usual CrackBerry argument tropes. First, the "BlackBerry Master Race" line of mental attack. Contrary to the evil cabal of Apple, Google, and Microsoft (and every other company/government on the planet), BlackBerry is the champion of privacy, since there is no potential for abuse, and the user always comes first. No, because one has a Lawful Good BlackBerry they're protected from threats from everywhere. Analytics and advertising have no place here, and are relegated to inferior platforms (admittedly, BlackBerry shuttered their advertisement services, but see #3). And as for the issue of providing an app store being an anti-trust violation large enough to give Theodore Roosevelt the willies from beyond the grave (apparently), why not ask the government to step in to subsidize the little guy? Never mind the fact that the little guy also has their own store pre-installed on their devices, but there's no pearl clutching about that. They're kosher. The amount of conspiracy theorycrafting here to make those at BlackBerry saints and the remaining 7 billion people in the world sinners makes the dark reaches of the Internet blush. Occam's razor is a handy thing to keep around when determining just which US President was the first one to be replaced by a clone from Mountain View (it's Jimmy Carter, by the way).

Second, the machine gun burst of "if only!"s that threads like this lead to. "If only BB10 had the apps that people needed! If only people weren't such beguiled sheep! If only companies didn't need to make money!". Unless one has a tricked out DeLorean, these "if only"s are just aids for people to "enjoy" themselves thinking about them. The amount of societal/economic change to bring about requiring signed and notarized consent in triplicate before asking one's name to pick up a takeout order, or an alternate universe wherein each resident of Earth receives a bespoke smartphone with their choice of size, shape, insides and outside, would lead to the cure for cancer, colonies on Mars, and warp travel before wasting such Herculean amounts of effort on trivialities like square screens or OS choice. Upending the current and absurdly lucrative data-based business model that's set in over the past decade in the tech industry (and intelligence for that matter) requires either installing some communist in the White House, or the aforementioned DeLorean. Were a fraction of the concentrated whining here diverted to letters to one's member of Congress, perhaps some changes could be effected, but to do so would require effort on the part of the whiners, and things like effort and research only distract from fruitless whining. Think about the future, not the past; but what are threads like this other than a collective re-living of "the good old days"?

Thirdly, "you mean there's a chance?" as applied to BB10. No, there isn't. BB10 is as alive as Francisco Franco. As much as reading and doing research is frowned upon by the tin foil hat brigade (why let facts get in the way of a good panic?), just read Losing the Signal. I'm serious, it's worth the money, or go to a library if there's GPS tracking chips embedded inside the dollar bills. Break into a bookstore and read it if libraries are evil Google plots or something like that. No matter how you read it, if one reaches the end wondering why people stopped listening to Mike Lazaridis, and are waiting patiently for BB10 to break out of its crypt and take the market by storm, then congratulations, you've won CB Bad Argument Bingo in one shot. For the rest, it manages to illustrate not only how Mike and Jim went full steam ahead from success into disaster, but also the mess Chen had to turn around fast, but that's for another thread.

And finally, the "it's fine for me!" bubble of myopia. You don't use cloud storage/backup/documents, enterprise MDM, instant messaging, or social media. Having fun on a phone is verboten. Your mobile communication makes no difference whether it's a Q10 or a 5810. Good for you. Great job. But since you're still here, you're more than likely one of these folks. You're the king of individuality, or you live in the woods and mail pipe bombs to people, or you have anterograde amnesia since 2009. Whatever it is, BB10 provides just the right mix of pre-installed apps (indolence), up to date security (where in the world is 10.3.4?), and hipster iconoclast cachet (OK I'll give you that one). That might work for you, but you're one person. Companies cannot target their device strategy to one person. Companies target to many people (shocker), and therefore aim to provide goods and services that are appealing to people. The myriad array of Google/Apple services are very enticing to the consumer, since GMail, Google Maps, iTunes, and the rest of their respective ecosystems provide extraordinary convenience. I get to stream my music streaming from Google Play Music to my Chromecast Audio connected to my speakers without having to bother with wires or Bluetooth. And since I'm at home Smart Lock keeps my device unlocked so it doesn't get in the way when I don't need it to. Yes, they're oiled with analytics. But that's the tradeoff. Paying up front is a turnoff, as spending tangible dollars is less appealing than "free", or spending intangible analytics. For the vast majority of consumers, the tradeoff works in their favor. Shackling oneself to 1990s sensibilities care of Mike Lazaridis, secret handshakes, and seven proxies, is necessary to few and burdensome to most.

With that albatross consumer idea in mind, I like to see the holdouts as holding the same mindset as Mike Lazaridis; change is bad, agents of change are evil, that which does not change is superior. BB10, owing to its development staff leaving for greener pastures and its general lack of traction with people that matter, can't change. It provides the familiar "conveniences" of awful desktop software, desolate app libraries, eccentric form factors, and infrequent update schedules. Oftentimes, thinking like that provides solutions in search of a problem; one could point to the entirety of BIS or BlackBerry Bridge, as the prime examples thereof. These solve problems that only exist inside BlackBerry's imagination, not the reality of the phone market. Blend, as much as I liked it, existed in a space between enterprise management (being a worse Outlook) and plebeian smartphones (excluding messengers other than BBM, and assuming the user doesn't have Dropbox or anything like that), satisfying neither. Furthermore, you see the device concept threads that boil down to "exactly the same as the Classic/Passport/Z30 but with bleeding edge hardware", as the faithful latch onto whichever device fills their niche long past the point of expiration. The white knuckled grasping at whatever advertisement, acquisition, developer bribe or dream device BlackBerry needed to put out invariably leads to an alternate universe where the OP of whichever thread that is has their dream version of BB10, and with the desires of the rest of the world molded to fit their fantasies such that all consumers think like they do. Now, the well-oiled machines of Android and iOS are threats to this status quo. How can one seamlessly interface their smartphone with their car when it should be an ordeal? Why are these apps updating ("they never needed to update on BB10" is my particularly favorite nugget of defensiveness)? How come I can watch videos on this phone without serious letterboxing? The list goes on, but BB10 does not. Coming to terms with its passing is ultimately easier than continuing to live in the reality distortion field generated by this forum. And while privacy is an important thing, acknowledging that one cannot roll back the clock to a pre-data age is better for one's mental health. Learn to survive in the new era, not rage, rage against the passage of the time.

The moral of the story is that these speculation threads can all be answered with the same statement: it happened, deal with it. Google and Apple are kings of the roost, it happened, deal with it. BlackBerry 10 is dead, it happened, deal with it. Data and analytics are here to stay, it happened, deal with it. This forum especially likes to focus on generating alternative facts about the first part of each sentence, mostly to avoid having to think about the last part. But, saying this as one who lived through BB10, from day one with the Z10 to day one with the Priv, you'll wonder why the hell you didn't switch earlier when you do. And since this is a free forum, you're welcome to disregard this post as the rantings of a paid Google shill (if it's a paid job then I'm due some serious back pay) as much as I'm welcome to dismiss other posts as the rantings of Ted Kaczynski. But if it cracks open someone's safe space, then I think I'd have done some good at least.

Feel Better?

[BigBadWulf]

Lol let's just say it's a grey area for now

Posted via CB10

No, it's pretty black and white, win or lose. There are always lawyers willing to take money and submit a case. The courts are bottle-necked with them. Eventually one may even find a sympathetic judge, and have to win on appeal. Were there loser pays laws, I doubt you'd see the legal system in the mess it's in.

[kvndoom]

Lol let's just say it's a grey area for now

Posted via CB10

There is no gray area. None. Nada. You know why? Because another mobile OS exists, independent of google, on which almost every A-list app is also available. There's no antitrust because developers have a choice of platforms to code for, and they choose freely to code for the two which will provide the best return on investment. Just as they have chosen freely to NOT code or update their software on platforms that failed.

Unlike the Microsoft and Intel cases, I'm pretty sure that so far not one single developer has spoken up and said they were strongarmed into not supporting BlackBerry. Nor were they given special discounts for not supporting BlackBerry.

Now if you can prove (and you can't, nor will anyone ever) that google and Apple conspired together to push everyone out of the market, then you'd have collusion. But there is no antitrust because a competitive market already exists.

But anyway, enough with common sense. Back to the grand Google shadow government conspiracy! Now with 100% more crop circles and chemtrails!

Blackberry Poptart SE - Cricket Wireless