06-24-17 07:09 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    That approach had BlackBerry right off $1 billion. I am suggesting something different.
    Either they licence BB10 to someone else who builds, distributes, and supports hardware, OR BlackBerry takes an OEM device and proceeds to distribute and support it themselves.

    The former won't work, because no company is interested.

    The latter won't work, because BlackBerry has no intention of rebuilding said infrastructure.
    Last edited by conite; 06-22-17 at 11:04 PM.
    06-22-17 10:42 PM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    It would be interesting to know how much of BB10 is in their Radar device. QNX's Wireless Framework, Bluetooth, Acoustics, and Apps and Media may also be sharing code from BB10.
    It would be interesting to know how many phones you think BB could sell this way.
    06-22-17 11:01 PM
  3. DonHB's Avatar
    Either they licence BB10 to someone else who builds, distributes, and supports hardware, OR BlackBerry takes an OEM device and proceeds to distribute and support it themselves.
    Aren't they continuing to support customers with BB10 devices?

    If BlackBerry approaches OnePlus and says we would like a bulk order of your top of the line device that you will be introducing within the year except you need to install our OS instead of Android and you need to add some keys using Qualcomm's infrastructure how many devices would BlackBerry need to order in order to get a least retail pricing? And would interested customers be willing to pay a $65 premium over the Android version? Could BlackBerry have said order shipped to Digital River to sell as they did previous devices?
    06-22-17 11:19 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Aren't they continuing to support customers with BB10 devices?
    Not with new hardware, that's for sure. Technical support maybe.
    06-22-17 11:23 PM
  5. conite's Avatar

    If BlackBerry approaches OnePlus and says we would like a bulk order of your top of the line device that you will be introducing within the year except you need to install our OS instead of Android and you need to add some keys using Qualcomm's infrastructure how many devices would BlackBerry need to order in order to get a least retail pricing? And would interested customers be willing to pay a $65 premium over the Android version? Could BlackBerry have said order shipped to Digital River to sell as they did previous devices?
    That's what they essentially did with TCL and the DTEKs. TCL provided the hardware to BlackBerry, and BlackBerry did ALL the rest. DR only handled online orders. BlackBerry still needs the entire sales and support infrastructure.

    And you're still forgetting the huge development costs in bringing BB10 to new hardware.
    06-22-17 11:24 PM
  6. DonHB's Avatar
    It would be interesting to know how many phones you think BB could sell this way.
    In another thread it was mentioned that Gartner quoted BlackBerry OS sales at almost 209K for the last quarter of 2016. Do you think that customers that purchased BB10 devices over the Passports lifetime would be interested in upgrading? Would they be close to this number? If a quarter million devices could be sold and the cost of R&D and QA mentioned in another thread of about $3 million dollars is close to the real number the good will gesture may actually generate cash. And that good will isn't restricted to a single product line of a business it may convince potential customers that when BlackBerry says it is committed to a product line they mean it.
    06-22-17 11:28 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    In another thread it was mentioned that Gartner quoted BlackBerry OS sales at almost 209K for the last quarter of 2016. Do you think that customers that purchased BB10 devices over the Passports lifetime would be interested in upgrading? Would they be close to this number? If a quarter million devices could be sold and the cost of R&D and QA mentioned in another thread of about $3 million dollars is close to the real number the good will gesture may actually generate cash. And that good will isn't restricted to a single product line of a business it may convince potential customers that when BlackBerry says it is committed to a product line they mean it.
    The number would be in the tens of thousands at most.

    It would take millions of units to reach break even.
    06-22-17 11:33 PM
  8. DonHB's Avatar
    That's what they essentially did with TCL and the DTEKs. TCL provided the hardware to BlackBerry, and BlackBerry did ALL the rest. DR only handled online orders.
    Initially they should be targeting existing customers. So, BBM may be the way to go. While TCL is now a major supporter of CrackBerry, I would think availability may be announced here too.

    BlackBerry still needs the entire sales and support infrastructure.
    How are the Priv and DTEKs being suported? Isn't this the same support infrastructure used for BB10?
    06-22-17 11:35 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Initially they should be targeting existing customers. So, BBM may be the way to go.
    NO one wants this! BlackBerry would lose thousands of dollars on every device sold.
    06-22-17 11:37 PM
  10. DonHB's Avatar
    The number would be in the tens of thousands at most.

    It would take millions of units to reach break even.
    Only BlackBerry knows how many BB10 devices are actively used.
    06-22-17 11:45 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Only BlackBerry knows how many BB10 devices are actively used.
    All we know for sure is that it's hopelessly short of bothering to do anything about it at all.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-22-17 11:47 PM
  12. DonHB's Avatar
    NO one wants this! BlackBerry would lose thousands of dollars on every device sold.
    If as mentioned in another thread the R&D and QA cost is $3 million and the cost of a device such as the OnePlus 5 is $479 I think you need to rethink your numbers.

    Of course this is BlackBerry's decision to make and they have access to the real numbers.
    06-23-17 12:01 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    If as mentioned in another thread the R&D and QA cost is $3 million and the cost of a device such as the OnePlus 5 is $479 I think you need to rethink your numbers.

    Of course this is BlackBerry's decision to make and they have access to the real numbers.
    You are off by at least a factor of 20 for even a skeletal level of survival. And that's being extremely generous.

    See here:
    /general-blackberry-discussion-f2/how-about-crowd-funded-consumer-device-1031192-post12874953/
    Last edited by conite; 06-23-17 at 12:18 AM.
    06-23-17 12:06 AM
  14. eshropshire's Avatar
    My main question keeps going unanswered. Why would BlackBerry want to get back into hardware. If BlackBerry started selling phones no matter who designs them they would still be back in hardware. They don't have any of the sales, marketing and partner infrastructure required to be a hardware company.

    What enterprise software projects do you suggest they put on hold for at least 12 months? And why they would want to reenter the low margin hardware market vs moving forward with higher margin enterprise software.
    Last edited by eshropshire; 06-23-17 at 05:10 AM.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    06-23-17 05:00 AM
  15. kvndoom's Avatar
    Ok you got some reason but the bb10 remain the best platform on the market...IOS is just trying to emulate all made by BlackBerry ( by ex. No touch button..., multitasking etc) . JC should think before make anything. He is a big manager but perhaps he should think to another deal. Android is not the solution...IMHO ...and bb10 also just dead if they should make some native app and extend the development system to other languages like java or. .Net....at at finally make a decent advertising campaign now we have all without compromise.
    But this is an other history...

    Posted via CB10
    I just LOVE the "make native apps" angle. You think BlackBerry can just use other companies' intellectual property as they please without permission?

    There's a reason no one does that without getting sued into oblivion. Do tell how BlackBerry would be the exception.
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    06-23-17 07:29 AM
  16. stlabrat's Avatar
    Aren't they continuing to support customers with BB10 devices?

    If BlackBerry approaches OnePlus and says we would like a bulk order of your top of the line device that you will be introducing within the year except you need to install our OS instead of Android and you need to add some keys using Qualcomm's infrastructure how many devices would BlackBerry need to order in order to get a least retail pricing? And would interested customers be willing to pay a $65 premium over the Android version? Could BlackBerry have said order shipped to Digital River to sell as they did previous devices?
    isn't dtek 50 and 60 are the test case? how did that go? do we know?
    06-23-17 09:15 AM
  17. stlabrat's Avatar
    from what I can see (today's earning report), selling is not BB's cup of tea. software or hardware do not make that much difference. Better beef up (or buffalo up) the skill at corp level.
    06-23-17 09:16 AM
  18. DonHB's Avatar
    isn't dtek 50 and 60 are the test case? how did that go? do we know?
    Is it salesmanship or the product? That BlackBerry and partners are no longer using privacy of the device as a selling point to consumers, but to businesses only is telling. With Microsoft following Google in terms of privacy and Apple's privacy policies being unclear what choices are there that are viable?

    Android devices do not have Android branding. Accordingly, no need for BlackBerry branding on BB10 devices and perhaps the deals with their hardware partners prevent it. Perhaps the numbers for an order could be much lower than what was needed with the DTEKS.

    An ideal scenario to eliminate inventory would be one where a customer sends in their rootable Snapdragon based Android device to a BlackBerry partner and for $65 (or less) postage paid your device would be returned to you with hardware root of trust enabled BB10 on it. Of course it may be limited to one SoC.
    Last edited by DonHB; 06-23-17 at 10:46 AM. Reason: details, details
    06-23-17 10:30 AM
  19. conite's Avatar

    An ideal scenario to eliminate inventory would be one where a customer sends in their rootable Snapdragon based Android device to a BlackBerry partner and for $65 (or less) postage paid your device would be returned to you with hardware root of trust enabled BB10 on it.
    So now they need drivers for every conceivable mix of hardware available today? Plus who would provide the ongoing support? The cost of maintaining/supporting dozens of unique OS builds would be beyond comprehension.

    This is getting more bizarre every day.
    06-23-17 10:44 AM
  20. stlabrat's Avatar
    (1) you mean to send in a rootable device to BB and beef up to become un-rootable with a fee? the market would be very limited from what I can see. how many are willing to go through the process is one thing. how many will want the security is the other. who ever on the droid with rootable device, is not the group consider security. The chaps got handset with 250 range to fork over 65? fat chance.
    (2) how many different kind of droid handset out there you propose BB to patch up? some of them may have building embedded software that sending geo location or other info every week like reported before. how do you eliminate those and what bb can do using dtek if it is hard wired by the MFG? (provide BB knew about the embedded, if not they don't even know where to look.... ) the task is cost more than 65 dollar with so far, i don't believe BB got man power or lady power to do it.
    (3) they better not thinking what ever you suggest is a revenue stream... something like nokia may be better. https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/19/1...dset-microsoft
    06-23-17 10:45 AM
  21. DonHB's Avatar
    So now they need drivers for every conceivable mix of hardware available today? Plus who would provide the ongoing support? The cost of maintaining/supporting dozens of unique OS builds would be beyond comprehension.

    This is getting more bizarre every day.
    Did I suggest any rootable Android device?

    Perhaps a customer buys a specified model of device on the market and sends it to the BlackBerry partner. Alternatively, as an example, any device with an 835 will be supported. If BlackBerry is supporting the Snapdragon 820A it may be very compatible with the 820 and a device using it will be specified.

    Anyway, this was an ideal scenario implying not likely.
    06-23-17 10:57 AM
  22. thurask's Avatar
    I just LOVE the "make native apps" angle.
    "I set up Outlook once, that's the same as developing, so how hard could it be for BlackBerry to pull Netflix out of their butt in a week?"
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    06-23-17 10:57 AM
  23. thurask's Avatar
    Did I suggest any rootable Android device?

    Perhaps a customer buys a specified model of device on the market and sends it to the BlackBerry partner. Alternatively, as an example any device with an 835 will be supported. If BlackBerry is supporting the Snapdragon 820A it may be very compatible with the 820 and a device using it will be specified.
    If you want BB10 your choices are the SoCs it shipped with, the Snapdragon 800 or the Snapdragon S4 (or TI OMAP), but since we've gone well past the point of plausibility in this thread let's say BlackBerry can hire a couple University of Waterloo interns and bring BB10 to the Snapdragon 835.
    stlabrat and DonHB like this.
    06-23-17 11:02 AM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    Perhaps a customer buys a specified model of device on the market and sends it to the BlackBerry partner. Alternatively, as an example, any device with an 835 will be supported. If BlackBerry is supporting the Snapdragon 820A it may be very compatible with the 820 and a device using it will be specified.

    Anyway, this was an ideal scenario implying not likely.
    So as a customer, I have to buy a device from a particular set of supported devices. I then have to send it in to have the OS installed, probably voiding the warranty on my new phone or at least losing support and the ability to return the thing if necessary. I also have to pay $65 for security enhancements that a typical consumer doesn't even understand, and I get to lose Chrome and I get to spend time now on Cobalt and this and that workaround to make this new phone work with the services I want.

    Mind you, these are all services that worked seamlessly before I sent the phone in with my $65.

    I think a few hundred people would go for this. I just can't see any more than that, especially when you can go buy a BlackBerry branded KEYOne that BB says is (1) secure and (2) works with all the services I want out of the box with warranty and support
    Uzi and StephanieMaks like this.
    06-23-17 11:59 AM
  25. psskid's Avatar
    I think what I'm reading here is that.

    1: I think we can all agree that we all love how BlackBerry 10 functions as an OS. The peek, flow, integrated functions that other OS Ned extra apps for....

    2: we all know that the app issue with BlackBerry 10 is what essentially is causing it's slow death. (along with marketing issues)

    3: we want to keep BlackBerry 10 as an OS but we want the app selection of Google play.

    4: we want the app selection of Google play but we want Security of BlackBerry 10.

    5: We would like BlackBerry to just replace BlackBerry World with Google play with all the Google services included. And. .. still have the BlackBerry Security (not going to happen)

    6: we would love BlackBerry to Re skin Android and make it more like BlackBerry 10. ( don't know if that works for them as an investment) .

    So.. are solution is...

    A: hold on to BlackBerry 10 and install Google play for as long as it works.

    B: move over to the new Android based BlackBerry device and accept the change...


    Either way.. Unless an investor walked into the board room with a bag of money and said, make bb10 again. It's not going to happen.. Google is where it's going for be..

    plus.. as I posted in another thread. I still think BlackBerry will be a target in the next year for a takeover. With all the other IoT and auto markets that they are heavy into, and the boat load of patents they hold. They will be bought.


    FYI. I'm holding on to the Z30 with the Google play on it until the phone becomes unusable and BlackBerry can get the Android version of their apps running better..





    Posted via CB10
    06-23-17 12:51 PM
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