06-24-17 06:09 PM
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  1. Sandeep Jain1's Avatar
    First let's get one thing straight here even before I start... I love, live and breath BlackBerry and just love my Passport and I will always have a BlackBerry as my daily driver!

    Everyone in the world, even I was upset when and disappointed when BlackBerry delayed the Launch of BB10.*

    On the launch of BB10 Even Thorsten Heins admitted, the had two choices to live with, they could either adapt someone's OS or build one up from ground zero.
    BlackBerry took the bold and tough road, they built an OS from ground up. And as many may agree a fantastic OS.

    If Heins wanted even he could have adapted Android and taken things in a different direction. Well you never know if he would have done that, he might have still been at BlackBerry and we all might be praising him and not John Chen.*

    I even understand John C's decision to outsource the handset business. But has anyone noticed the current pricing of the BB10 Handsets. Why couldn't BlackBerry's marketing team have thought about this when the launched the handset. I heard that BlackBerry had spent a lot of money on Marketing BB10, but I did not see anything in India. Maybe you all saw it in different parts of the world but I did not.

    Please help me understand, what is different in what BlackBerry did not that they could have not done earlier.*

    Have you noticed that all the Samsung Phones are advertising about how secure the phone and the Android OS is.

    I mean call me bitchy, but I think that BlackBerry should keep the bb10 OS alive and have handsets made by the partner companies.*

    I understand that a company has to make money, I understand that a company is not only based on their Fans, but I think that the best and most advanced OS in the market should live on...*

    I will always try to carry a BB10 phone and I am sure that everyone who loves the OS will also try...

    I would just like to tell John C one thing, you may try to make BlackBerry a software company, you may try to kill or even replace BB10 with Android.... this might help you with your investors, this might help you with the press...

    But it will kill your fan base cause if I want an Android phone who is also talking about security now who is also pushing security updates regularly, then why should I buy a pricey BlackBerry when Samsung and many other companies are giving me an Android phone with better specifications for a mush better price.....

    I don't mean to sound rude... I know a lot of you might disagree with me... I know that this article means nothing because I just a small Fan and not a big name....*

    But I just had to vent my feelings out....
    06-09-17 10:55 AM
  2. nevertoofar's Avatar
    It's difficult to believe a beyond great mobile OS, surely the most fluid and efficient is slowly dying but we must face it and move forward. I'm still using and abusing the BlackBerry 10 experience but also using an Android device to do the things and use the apps that BlackBerry 10 is not longer able to do.

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-17 11:38 AM
  3. markmall's Avatar
    To change directions now would be admitting that they were wrong which most people can't do. There could be a market for people that will pay a premium for a BB10 phone and don't care about running many Android apps on it. We will never know unless management is replaced.

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-17 12:47 PM
  4. kvndoom's Avatar
    To change directions now would be admitting that they were wrong which most people can't do. There could be a market for people that will pay a premium for a BB10 phone and don't care about running many Android apps on it. We will never know unless management is replaced.

    Posted via CB10
    Except that no one outside of a few Crackberry posters believes that market exists, otherwise it would have been licensed by now. Not one single phone OEM on earth seems to believe that they can make a profit on BB10. That's a lot of management that needs replacing.
    06-09-17 01:24 PM
  5. erguduju's Avatar
    It is easier to go with the flow. Privacy is obsolete. The consumer is always right and the consumer is blind. As log as there will be a huge lot of people saying 'I have nothing to hide so what if Google or Apple has all my data?' the chances of another OS like BlackBerry 10 are too small to be of any meaning.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    06-09-17 02:30 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    It is easier to go with the flow. Privacy is obsolete. The consumer is always right and the consumer is blind.
    I can see quite well thank you very much.

    DTEK60
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    06-09-17 02:38 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    Except that no one outside of a few Crackberry posters believes that market exists, otherwise it would have been licensed by now. Not one single phone OEM on earth seems to believe that they can make a profit on BB10. That's a lot of management that needs replacing.
    False equivalency. BlackBerry was and maybe is in a much better position to make a BB10 phone than random tech companies.

    Posted via CB10
    stlabrat and Thaefner18 like this.
    06-09-17 02:41 PM
  8. kvndoom's Avatar
    False equivalency. BlackBerry was and maybe is in a much better position to make a BB10 phone than random tech companies.

    Posted via CB10
    False statement. BlackBerry is no longer a phone manufacturer.

    Some true statements: almost all BB10 programming personnel are gone. The only SoC's that supported BB10 were discontinued years ago. There's no infrastructure in place for them to make another BB10 phone.

    Unless BlackBerry can find a CEO and BoD stupid enough to invest billions for the sake of making millions, dream on. Or, do as I've said before and send them your resume and explain how you can run the company better than the current management.
    06-09-17 02:58 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    False equivalency. BlackBerry was and maybe is in a much better position to make a BB10 phone than random tech companies.

    Posted via CB10
    Why?
    06-09-17 03:00 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    False equivalency. BlackBerry was and maybe is in a much better position to make a BB10 phone than random tech companies.
    As it is, BB lost more than $100 on each and every BB10 phone they sold. Think about that for a minute. BB10 was essentially a charity project that destroyed a massive amount of money and value for BB.

    What would motivate BB to get back into a massive money-losing business that they just paid a bunch of money to exit? What would motivate the shareholders to allow it?

    BB10 hasn't been actively developed for 3 years now - an eternity in tech. It won't run on modern hardware. Developers won't support it. It wasn't converted to 64-bit. The version of QT is so outdated that it hasn't been supported for years. BB10 would no longer be able to have an Android runtime due to BB's Google Play license.

    Solving those problems would take years and at least a billion dollars - and you would still be back to taking a huge loss on every phone sold.

    Why would a company do this (again, after the unmitigated disaster of the first time)? To save their reputation among a handful of unhappy fans of a line of business they aren't even in anymore?

    I'd love to hear answers to these questions...
    06-09-17 03:26 PM
  11. Vistaus's Avatar
    I've never seen any advertising here in the Netherlands. They silently launched the Z10 and the Q10 and then only sold the Z30 and Passport and all of the rest through a few online stores, with, again no advertising (although Belsimpel.nl did list the Passport prominently on their homepage, which increased sells).
    But what's strange though is that they have been running ads for the DTEK50, both on TV and ad spaces in things like bus shelters. Seems like Android is of more value to BlackBerry, sadly.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red) <3
    06-09-17 03:49 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I've never seen any advertising here in the Netherlands. They silently launched the Z10 and the Q10 and then only sold the Z30 and Passport and all of the rest through a few online stores, with, again no advertising (although Belsimpel.nl did list the Passport prominently on their homepage, which increased sells).
    But what's strange though is that they have been running ads for the DTEK50, both on TV and ad spaces in things like bus shelters. Seems like Android is of more value to BlackBerry, sadly.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red)
    In the fall of 2013, BB10 was structurally terminated. It took them two more years to bleed out parts commitments and corporate contracts. Huge advertising was not needed, and would have simply made the losses worse.
    06-09-17 04:12 PM
  13. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    I mean call me bitchy, but I think that BlackBerry should keep the bb10 OS alive and have handsets made by the partner companies...

    ...why should I buy a pricey BlackBerry...
    They already tried that and received zero interest.

    You should buy an Android BlackBerry if you value the BlackBerry "feel" and pkb, or if you believe that their take on security is superior to the competition.
    Thaefner18 likes this.
    06-09-17 04:21 PM
  14. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    I've never seen any advertising here in the Netherlands. They silently launched the Z10 and the Q10 and then only sold the Z30 and Passport and all of the rest through a few online stores, with, again no advertising
    No amount of advertising could have convinced people to not return their Z10s.
    06-09-17 04:30 PM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    False equivalency. BlackBerry was and maybe is in a much better position to make a BB10 phone than random tech companies.

    Posted via CB10
    How so? They have never had the revenue, cash flow or cash on hand to ever support BB10 except before they wasted the portion they did have developing BB10.

    Microsoft had 10x in each important category and look at WP OS. BB10 is a gorgeous rock thrown against giant rock face and expecting to see a chip knocked out.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    06-09-17 04:40 PM
  16. southlander's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 to me was only great when compared to OS'es of what 2012-2013? Today when I use my Pixel with Android O, it feels way more modern than my Passport. This is what BB saw -- they had no chance of keeping up with Apple and Google. The stuff I can do with Google Voice Assistant is nothing BB could ever hope to match. Even Apple can't.

    The game has moved on from just a good solid OS to machine learning and connected services.
    06-09-17 10:05 PM
  17. jefbeard911's Avatar
    False equivalency. BlackBerry was and maybe is in a much better position to make a BB10 phone than random tech companies.

    Posted via CB10
    TCL is a 'random tech company'? Many multiples more money and resources the BlackBerry and yet they have no desire to continue BB10.

    The BB10 horse is dead. Please let it rot in peace.

    Send from my BlackBerry Passport
    06-09-17 11:01 PM
  18. elfabio80's Avatar
    As it is, BB lost more than $100 on each and every BB10 phone they sold. Think about that for a minute. BB10 was essentially a charity project that destroyed a massive amount of money and value for BB.

    What would motivate BB to get back into a massive money-losing business that they just paid a bunch of money to exit? What would motivate the shareholders to allow it?

    BB10 hasn't been actively developed for 3 years now - an eternity in tech. It won't run on modern hardware. Developers won't support it. It wasn't converted to 64-bit. The version of QT is so outdated that it hasn't been supported for years. BB10 would no longer be able to have an Android runtime due to BB's Google Play license.

    Solving those problems would take years and at least a billion dollars - and you would still be back to taking a huge loss on every phone sold.

    Why would a company do this (again, after the unmitigated disaster of the first time)? To save their reputation among a handful of unhappy fans of a line of business they aren't even in anymore?

    I'd love to hear answers to these questions...
    Hey Troy, where did you read that BlackBerry lost 100 usd per piece?? It is an interesting detail. Could you quantify how much did BlackBerry earn/lost with the Priv?

    In another post you said that BlackBerry has been not actively developed since 2 years....now 3 years....man, I remember I received 2 big updates here in 2015.....it should be two years....
    06-10-17 02:25 AM
  19. Sandeep Jain1's Avatar
    I've never seen any advertising here in the Netherlands. They silently launched the Z10 and the Q10 and then only sold the Z30 and Passport and all of the rest through a few online stores, with, again no advertising (although Belsimpel.nl did list the Passport prominently on their homepage, which increased sells).
    But what's strange though is that they have been running ads for the DTEK50, both on TV and ad spaces in things like bus shelters. Seems like Android is of more value to BlackBerry, sadly.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red) <3
    There was no advertising done for the BB10 phones...

    Posted via CB10
    06-10-17 02:52 AM
  20. Vistaus's Avatar
    There was no advertising done for the BB10 phones...

    Posted via CB10
    Sad...
    06-10-17 03:41 AM
  21. eshropshire's Avatar
    First let's get one thing straight here even before I start... I love, live and breath BlackBerry and just love my Passport and I will always have a BlackBerry as my daily driver!

    Everyone in the world, even I was upset when and disappointed when BlackBerry delayed the Launch of BB10.*

    On the launch of BB10 Even Thorsten Heins admitted, the had two choices to live with, they could either adapt someone's OS or build one up from ground zero.
    BlackBerry took the bold and tough road, they built an OS from ground up. And as many may agree a fantastic OS.

    If Heins wanted even he could have adapted Android and taken things in a different direction. Well you never know if he would have done that, he might have still been at BlackBerry and we all might be praising him and not John Chen.*

    I even understand John C's decision to outsource the handset business. But has anyone noticed the current pricing of the BB10 Handsets. Why couldn't BlackBerry's marketing team have thought about this when the launched the handset. I heard that BlackBerry had spent a lot of money on Marketing BB10, but I did not see anything in India. Maybe you all saw it in different parts of the world but I did not.

    Please help me understand, what is different in what BlackBerry did not that they could have not done earlier.*

    Have you noticed that all the Samsung Phones are advertising about how secure the phone and the Android OS is.

    I mean call me bitchy, but I think that BlackBerry should keep the bb10 OS alive and have handsets made by the partner companies.*

    I understand that a company has to make money, I understand that a company is not only based on their Fans, but I think that the best and most advanced OS in the market should live on...*

    I will always try to carry a BB10 phone and I am sure that everyone who loves the OS will also try...

    I would just like to tell John C one thing, you may try to make BlackBerry a software company, you may try to kill or even replace BB10 with Android.... this might help you with your investors, this might help you with the press...

    But it will kill your fan base cause if I want an Android phone who is also talking about security now who is also pushing security updates regularly, then why should I buy a pricey BlackBerry when Samsung and many other companies are giving me an Android phone with better specifications for a mush better price.....

    I don't mean to sound rude... I know a lot of you might disagree with me... I know that this article means nothing because I just a small Fan and not a big name....*

    But I just had to vent my feelings out....
    The Co CEOs were responsible for the death of Blackberry's hardware. They sat around for four years and did nothing as the mobile industry completely changed. Read 'Who moved my Cheese?'. This completely describes what happened to BlackBerry. They responded way to late. Then to make matters worse they sidetracked the BB10 team to build the financial disaster - the Playbook. This stupid side project set BB10 back at least 1 year plus depleted a good bit of cash.

    Thor took over he was way over his head, totally the wrong person to lead BlackBerry. He was probably promoted to keep skeletons hidden. BlackBerry needed an outsider with great chops in the mobile space. Thor just followed the old BlackBerry model.

    By the time Chen was hired the Board was desperate. They tried to sell the company and all they got was one company who looked at the books and did not even consider making an offer. Chen was hired to transform BlackBerry into an Enterprise software company. Chen in not a hardware guy. If the BOD wanted to stay in hardware they would have hired a CEO with hardware experience. The Board wanted to transform BlackBerry into a software company.

    BTW when BlackBerry decided to try Android, the choice was not do Android or BB10. The future of BB10 was already decided, most of the team had already been let go. The decision was to give mobile one more go with the only affordable option available - Android. BlackBerry Android could be created with a fraction of the team required for BB10. Minimal risk.
    jayaguru likes this.
    06-10-17 05:54 AM
  22. eshropshire's Avatar
    To change directions now would be admitting that they were wrong which most people can't do. There could be a market for people that will pay a premium for a BB10 phone and don't care about running many Android apps on it. We will never know unless management is replaced.

    Posted via CB10
    The problem is no one ever would pay a premium for BB10 phones. Everyone always complained the phones were to expensive. Blackberry's ASP was often below $300, Apple's ASP is over $600. Blackberry's ASP doomed their hardware group.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    06-10-17 05:57 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    In another post you said that BlackBerry has been not actively developed since 2 years....now 3 years....man, I remember I received 2 big updates here in 2015.....it should be two years....
    The 10.3 beta was out in March of 2014. Everything since has been minor revisions.
    06-10-17 06:27 AM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    There was no advertising done for the BB10 phones...
    BB did its biggest marketing campaign in company history with the launch of BB10, spending $95M (US), which was almost double the next largest (figured per Heins back in 2014). Lots of people around the world saw those ads.

    The problem was that, despite the marketing, BB still didn't sell many phones, and of the ones it did sell, many were returned when people figured out that there was no native app ecosystem and that many critical apps and services were missing.

    If you have a high return rate, then more marketing is just going to cause more people "on the bubble" to give it a try, and more will return it. Returns are the worst thing that can happen, because the device can no longer be sold as "new", but you haven't made any money from it, AND you probably have to replace some accessories and packaging just to sell it at all.

    BB didn't pour more money into marketing because they weren't offering something that the market really wanted, and more marketing spend would have just brought more marginal customers who were more likely to return their phone and get something else. I'm not saying they wouldn't have sold more phones - they almost certainly would have - but the profit/loss per phone would have been even worse than it already was. That's basic Business Marketing 101 stuff, and it certainly didn't take BB long to figure out what was happening.

    Make no mistake: as an OS by itself, BB10 was great in a lot of ways. But people don't buy OSs, they buy into PLATFORMS, and platforms have ecosystems of devices, accessories, apps, services, and media. BB10 lacked most of that, and wasn't in a position to create or buy what it lacked (even Microsoft, with orders of magnitude more money, couldn't), so there was no path to success.

    BB missed the window of opportunity by not releasing a new, modern OS in 2008 or 2009 at the very latest. It still might have failed, but it at least could have had a possibility of success (mostly, by having widespread developer support) if they'd launched back then. But BB hadn't even STARTED on a new OS at that time. Mike Lazaridis was still convinced that no one needed a modern OS, and that his 2G-solution product (BBOS) was all anyone should need. He thought he knew better than everyone else, and he was wrong. His decisions, and the delays they caused, were the reason why BB10 eventually failed - because the race was long over by the time BB10 even took to the track.
    06-10-17 08:34 PM
  25. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Hey Troy, where did you read that BlackBerry lost 100 usd per piece?? It is an interesting detail. Could you quantify how much did BlackBerry earn/lost with the Priv?
    That figure came from some straightforward math on numbers released by BB on their quarterly reviews along with some figured given on one of the Q&As back in late 2015.
    06-10-17 08:38 PM
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