1. mas_quemex's Avatar
    Source - The Economic Times

    BlackBerry, which has been busy restructuring itself as an enterprise and security company, is all set to bring Virtual SIM Provisioning (VSP) to India. VSP basically is a virtual identity solution for mobile operators, that allows multiple numbers to be active on a single device or SIM card.

    BlackBerry is looking to get this technology into India by the virtue of its acquisition of London based virtual identity solutions player, Movirtu. The acquisition happened in September 2014, and BlackBerry is already rolling out similar solutions in Africa, Sunil Lalvani, Managing Director, BlackBerry India told us.

    The VPS could come in handy for BYOD scenarios, where the lines between personal and professional mobile usage of employees are often blurred. "On a virtual SIM platform, both a business number and a personal number can be used on a single mobile device, with separate billing for voice, data and messaging usage on each number. As a result, employees can switch between business and personal profiles easily without carrying multiple devices or SIM cards, and charges are appropriately billed to the company and the employee," Lalvani said.

    Additionally, in conjunction with the BlackBerry Enterprise Service (BES) platform, enterprise customers will be able to apply IT policies to the business number without impacting the usability of the device for personal use.

    According to Lalvani, a solution like VSP can have a significant market in a country like India, where 3 million dual SIM handsets are sold every month. Lalvani said that Blackberry is in talks with several carriers in India to roll out the technology and a probable timeline would be end of 2015, given the regulatory processes involved. "We have the technology ready today. We are just dealing with regulatory framework."

    As of now, all the numbers on the virtual SIM will have to be activated by a single carrier, which, Lalvani said is not a technology but a regulatory issue. "The technology to have different carriers enable different accounts on a virtual SIM is available. But the KYC (know-your-Customer) norms hinder carriers from doing that," he said.

    While the revenue models for operators and enterprises are yet to take shape completely, BlackBerry will get its revenue on the basis of per SIM virtualized.

    BlackBerry, which has been focusing on its enterprise offerings, said that according to latest financial numbers, 42 per cent of its business is coming from hardware, 47 per cent from services and about 10 per cent from software solutions.
    paulschulte and raino like this.
    05-14-15 09:51 AM
  2. raino's Avatar
    So are 3 million dual SIM phones sold per month for personal+professional usage? Because that's what BB seems to be targeting, and not the general consumer who may not fit the professional usage scenario.
    paulschulte likes this.
    05-14-15 10:44 AM
  3. Centerman66's Avatar
    Will this ever come to the US?

    Posted on CB10 using my Z30 STA 100-5 on OS 10.3.1.2744
    05-18-15 10:30 PM
  4. Soapm's Avatar
    Will this ever come to the US?

    Posted on CB10 using my Z30 STA 100-5 on OS 10.3.1.2744
    Why??? Now days everyone has "all you can eat" service with unlimited voice, text and data... They're again a day late and a dollar short, this would have been worth considering when companies paid for each users minutes but with "all you can eat", who cares if the call is business or personal??? doesn't save the company a penny...
    05-18-15 10:38 PM
  5. guton83's Avatar
    To answer your question - because I have two sim cards - personal and company and I use both on regular basis and don't want to carry two devices.
    paulschulte likes this.
    05-19-15 07:12 AM
  6. ankitchahal's Avatar
    Why??? Now days everyone has "all you can eat" service with unlimited voice, text and data... They're again a day late and a dollar short, this would have been worth considering when companies paid for each users minutes but with "all you can eat", who cares if the call is business or personal??? doesn't save the company a penny...
    There is no such thing as UNLIMITED here.. u pay per minute or to be precise pay per second..same goes with data and SMS

    Edit: my bad I thought u were talking about india I skipped ur quotes to someone asking about USA

    Posted via my awesome Passport
    05-19-15 08:00 AM
  7. yeo123's Avatar
    So are 3 million dual SIM phones sold per month for personal+professional usage? Because that's what BB seems to be targeting, and not the general consumer who may not fit the professional usage scenario.
    I tot not less than 3 millions dual SIM cards per month is only India, not includes Indonesia and Africa area.

    BlackBerry Z10/STL100-2
    05-19-15 08:14 AM
  8. raino's Avatar
    I tot not less than 3 millions dual SIM cards per month is only India, not includes Indonesia and Africa area.
    Right, I got that. What I'm wondering is that 3 million--is that the total number of dual SIM phones sold per month for professional use (which BB seems to be targeting) or professional+personal use, i.e. some kid off the street buying a dual SIM phone just for personal usage.
    05-19-15 02:22 PM
  9. Centerman66's Avatar
    Why??? Now days everyone has "all you can eat" service with unlimited voice, text and data... They're again a day late and a dollar short, this would have been worth considering when companies paid for each users minutes but with "all you can eat", who cares if the call is business or personal??? doesn't save the company a penny...
    Because maybe i have two phone numbers and tire of carrying two phones......it isn't how much i want to eat, but that i want to eat off two plates.
    thymaster likes this.
    05-19-15 02:33 PM
  10. Soapm's Avatar
    To answer your question - because I have two sim cards - personal and company and I use both on regular basis and don't want to carry two devices.
    Because maybe i have two phone numbers and tire of carrying two phones......it isn't how much i want to eat, but that i want to eat off two plates.
    Just curious, why do you have two phones and two numbers? I understand personal and business, but if business requires you carry a phone 24/7 then it must accept that you'll receive personal calls on that number. Or are you just referring to business hours that you carry two devices, if so then again, close friend and family know your hours and which number to call to reach you.

    When I was in that situation I forwarded one phone to the other. If you do it in the settings then it will forward voicemails and everything. Back in the day of BIS, you could even forward your SMS to your BB email address (xxxxx@tmo.blackberry.net) which could be activated on either device. I don't know if this is still possible without BIS...

    It just seems with today's technology, where there's a creative Will there is a way not to have to carry two devices... I understand this technology is one of those ways, but again, this seems less than 1% of market share in dire need of this service...
    mas_quemex likes this.
    05-19-15 02:57 PM
  11. Akure4Life's Avatar
    This will be a big hit in Africa where so many people have 2 or more phones because each carrier receptions varies in different areas.

    Posted Via CB10 From My Z30 Running On OS10.3.2.680
    thymaster, mas_quemex and veved like this.
    05-19-15 03:13 PM
  12. Akure4Life's Avatar
    The question is will the virtual number be tied to a single carrier or multiple carriers?

    Posted Via CB10 From My Z30 Running On OS10.3.2.680
    05-19-15 03:14 PM
  13. Centerman66's Avatar
    The question is will the virtual number be tied to a single carrier or multiple carriers?

    Posted Via CB10 From My Z30 Running On OS10.3.2.680
    Must be the same carrier.
    05-19-15 03:18 PM
  14. Centerman66's Avatar
    Just curious, why do you have two phones and two numbers? I understand personal and business, but if business requires you carry a phone 24/7 then it must accept that you'll receive personal calls on that number. Or are you just referring to business hours that you carry two devices, if so then again, close friend and family know your hours and which number to call to reach you.

    When I was in that situation I forwarded one phone to the other. If you do it in the settings then it will forward voicemails and everything. Back in the day of BIS, you could even forward your SMS to your BB email address (xxxxx@tmo.blackberry.net) which could be activated on either device. I don't know if this is still possible without BIS...

    It just seems with today's technology, where there's a creative Will there is a way not to have to carry two devices... I understand this technology is one of those ways, but again, this seems less than 1% of market share in dire need of this service...
    How did you originate calls from two numbers?
    05-19-15 03:18 PM
  15. Soapm's Avatar
    Just curious, why do you have two phones and two numbers? I understand personal and business, but if business requires you carry a phone 24/7 then it must accept that you'll receive personal calls on that number. Or are you just referring to business hours that you carry two devices, if so then again, close friend and family know your hours and which number to call to reach you.

    When I was in that situation I forwarded one phone to the other. If you do it in the settings then it will forward voicemails and everything. Back in the day of BIS, you could even forward your SMS to your BB email address (xxxxx@tmo.blackberry.net) which could be activated on either device. I don't know if this is still possible without BIS...

    It just seems with today's technology, where there's a creative Will there is a way not to have to carry two devices... I understand this technology is one of those ways, but again, this seems less than 1% of market share in dire need of this service...
    How did you originate calls from two numbers?
    Again, just curious, why would that matter or why would you need to? By the second call, people will know it's you because they'll add your other number to their contacts...

    Edit to add... I guess in the end you can always find a reason to carry two phones, but I'm really curious why and if there is a creative way to not with little inconvenience to ones lifestyle...

    Also something to note, it's not just having the same carrier, the numbers would have to be owned by the same entity in order to be on the same account. So you would have to port your personal number to your company or visa versa. I worked many years for the phone company and know how it works...
    05-19-15 03:32 PM
  16. Centerman66's Avatar
    Again, just curious, why would that matter or why would you need to? By the second call, people will know it's you because they'll add your other number to their contacts...

    Edit to add... I guess in the end you can always find a reason to carry two phones, but I'm really curious why and if there is a creative way to not with little inconvenience to ones lifestyle...

    Also something to note, it's not just having the same carrier, the numbers would have to be owned by the same entity in order to be on the same account. So you would have to port your personal number to your company or visa versa. I worked many years for the phone company and know how it works...
    maybe i own the company and would be happy to port one number either way.....i am not saying its a great big giant market, but it is a market.
    05-19-15 03:59 PM
  17. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Why??? Now days everyone has "all you can eat" service with unlimited voice, text and data... They're again a day late and a dollar short, this would have been worth considering when companies paid for each users minutes but with "all you can eat", who cares if the call is business or personal??? doesn't save the company a penny...
    Besides the fact that "everyone" does not have unlimited everything on their personal phone, even in the US, there are very practical reasons for why an Enterprise would want to be able to assign a work owned mobile number to a non-work phone and vice versa. Remember that BlackBerry is in the business of secure communications.

    It is beneficial for an Enterprise to be able to retain their mobile phone number estate and to be able to assign the numbers to different phones as required. If an employee has a work number assigned to a personal phone and they leave the company the employer is able to remove the work number from the phone remotely and reassign it to another phone. If the employee only used a personal number while working and they leave, the employer doesn't want all the people that person communicated with within the company and throughout their customer base still calling and texting the personal number of someone who left, or worse was fired.

    What if the employee was an accounts manager who switched to a rival company and now the previous company's most important clients were being sweet talked by the person who just left because they were never calling a company phone number, they were calling some person's personal number the whole time? Just like when you leave a company and your access to your former employer's computer accounts and mailbox is cut off, your access to your former employer's clients should also be cut off through not being able to receive or make calls to them on the phone number you used for work any more.

    Many people also do not want to give out their personal phone number for work purposes. They could forward their work number to their personal number to receive calls but then they wouldn't receive texts sent to their work number and they would be showing their personal number if they texted for work from their personal phone. Many find it an impractical hassle to keep hiding and unhiding their number before making work related and personal calls from their own phone.

    Also something to note, it's not just having the same carrier, the numbers would have to be owned by the same entity in order to be on the same account. So you would have to port your personal number to your company or visa versa. I worked many years for the phone company and know how it works...
    No, that's not how the Movirtu technology works, that's why BlackBerry bought it. The two numbers do not have to be owned by the same legal entity. Billing is completely split for everything, calls, texts and data usage. Personal use of a work owned phone is billed to the person by the carrier. Work use of a personal phone is billed to the workplace by the carrier.

    http://uk.blackberry.com/enterprise/.../worklife.html

    Posted from the CB10 app on my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2/10.3.1.2576 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.5.6
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 05-19-15 at 05:00 PM.
    hasa77 and BoldMaverick like this.
    05-19-15 04:45 PM
  18. Soapm's Avatar
    Besides the fact that "everyone" does not have unlimited everything on their personal phone, even in the US,
    Really, let's take a survey, who in the US doesn't have unlimited minutes in this day and time? Besides those with Obama phones??? Just an FYI... We have 4 unlimited lines for $100 with TMO... May want to give them a call... But again, I said use the company phone and I can't imagine any company paying by the minute. That wouldn't be cost effective...

    there are very practical reasons for why an Enterprise would want to be able to assign a work owned mobile number to a non-work phone and vice versa. Remember that BlackBerry is in the business of secure communications.
    "Practical"??? I can't imagine an "Enterprise" as in large corporation assigning a company number to a personal asset. It has to do with the legalities of who owns the messages etc... How can they dictate your use? A company would be more at risk assigning a company number to a personal asset than if they issued the employee a company phone that they completely own and have total say so over... Security, you're creating the hole in the security...

    It is beneficial for an Enterprise to be able to retain their mobile phone number estate and to be able to assign the numbers to different phones as required. If an employee has a work number assigned to a personal phone and they leave the company the employer is able to remove the work number from the phone remotely and reassign it to another phone. If the employee only used a personal number while working and they leave, the employer doesn't want all the people that person communicated with within the company and throughout their customer base still calling and texting the personal number of someone who left, or worse was fired.
    I never said use a personal number for work and I would caution anyone working for a company that requires company calls but can't give you a company phone. Company phones are taken back on departure, and issued to new employee's everyday...

    What if the employee was an accounts manager who switched to a rival company and now the previous company's most important clients were being sweet talked by the person who just left because they were never calling a company phone number, they were calling some person's personal number the whole time?
    For starters, it would be in appropriate to take company calls on a personal phone. Most companies also have "no compete" clauses but this does happen. Clients are generally under contract so you have time before they can leave and you would be a poor manager to let an employee go that's capable of taking your best customers with them. This means your customers were really their customer and not your companies... You have a bigger problem than an employee leaving...

    Just like when you leave a company and your access to your former employer's computer accounts and mailbox is cut off, your access to your former employer's clients should also be cut off through not being able to receive or make calls to them on the phone number you used for work any more.
    True, this is why they give you a phone then take it back when you leave. this makes sure they get all company information returned to include company text messages, phone records, password you may have in your contacts etc... This is also why you can't put your personal laptop behind the companies firewall... Don't put your personal phone on the companies BES server... Not at an Enterprise at least...

    Many people also do not want to give out their personal phone number for work purposes. They could forward their work number to their personal number to receive calls but then they wouldn't receive texts sent to their work number and they would be showing their personal number if they texted for work from their personal phone. Many find it an impractical hassle to keep hiding and unhiding their number before making work related and personal calls from their own phone.
    Again, just use the work phone but remember all messages belong to the company so be careful what you say. No nude pictures, terrorist plots or plans to take over the company... And if you must send dirty pictures, don't do it on the clock which means you can then use your own phone...

    No, that's not how the Movirtu technology works, that's why BlackBerry bought it. The two numbers do not have to be owned by the same legal entity. Billing is completely split for everything, calls, texts and data usage. Personal use of a work owned phone is billed to the person by the carrier. Work use of a personal phone is billed to the workplace by the carrier.
    Not technically, but legally??? This is a nation of laws... I see where it implies the company would add the number and not the carrier. So if this is provisioned in the companies systems then I guess it could happen but the reason the carrier would have this requirement is it keeps them out of potential legal disputes. And what happens if one entity doesn't pay their bill? The carrier would want to cut off the complete device, how can they make you pay if you device still takes calls??? I can't see US carriers playing this game...

    According to your link the concept is using a personal phone for work. Looks good on their site with the large BYOD and all that but that's how you sell. I couldn't imagine a company allowing company information flowing to a personal device. How do you safeguard your patents and proprietary information??? How do you own the quotes and other employee communications? Consulting documents etc... And I would still caution anyone working for a company requiring calls that can't give you a company phone. And now days personal calls on a company phone is considered a perk more than an inconvenience... It's like the wife calling you on the phone on your desk... It's expected...

    I'm not saying this can't be used but I do say that with "all you can eat" at any reputable company this will be a less than 1% market share investment in the US.
    05-19-15 05:59 PM
  19. Soapm's Avatar
    maybe i own the company and would be happy to port one number either way.....i am not saying its a great big giant market, but it is a market.
    Fair, but as you state, I don't see many company owners paying for two devices or even needing a "personal" number since in effect, I am my company...
    05-19-15 06:01 PM
  20. mas_quemex's Avatar
    So are 3 million dual SIM phones sold per month for personal+professional usage? Because that's what BB seems to be targeting, and not the general consumer who may not fit the professional usage scenario.
    Almost all multiple SIM phones cater to personal usage only.

    Multiple SIM phones are popular in India bcoz :
    1. Carrier signal reception is patchy nationwide
    2. Competitive data & voice plans could be availed by middle class
    3. Original battery cost is on par with new 2G phone cost
    4. Privacy
    raino and idhbar like this.
    05-21-15 12:46 PM
  21. raino's Avatar
    Almost all multiple SIM phones cater to personal usage only.

    Multiple SIM phones are popular in India bcoz :
    1. Carrier signal reception is patchy nationwide
    2. Competitive data & voice plans could be availed by middle class
    3. Original battery cost is on par with new 2G phone cost
    4. Privacy
    Thanks. I knew that dual SIMs for personal usage were big in India, but I didn't realize professional usage was that big a market--especially as big Sunil Lalvani made it sound like it was. So I guess it isn't.

    But then why is BB targeting the BYOD market? Are they not going to roll this out for personal usage?
    05-21-15 12:55 PM
  22. mas_quemex's Avatar
    Thanks. I knew that dual SIMs for personal usage were big in India, but I didn't realize professional usage was that big a market--especially as big Sunil Lalvani made it sound like it was. So I guess it isn't.

    But then why is BB targeting the BYOD market? Are they not going to roll this out for personal usage?
    Organised labour in India - 25m
    Unorganised labour - 500m

    BYOD is not quite a priority here when even printed job contracts are rare & limited to megacities.
    05-24-15 11:47 PM
  23. kfehling's Avatar
    It matters because, California:

    http://www.shrm.org/legalissues/stat...ell-phone.aspx



    Posted via CB10
    05-25-15 06:36 PM

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