01-27-17 03:37 AM
67 123
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  1. JSmith422's Avatar
    I'm less worried about NSA and the US government than organized crime, ID thieves or extortionists (in not too distant future).

    Also, even if the credit card companies sell info on what we purchase, this is not as bad as what we are searching which can reflect our most private thoughts/fears/aspirations.

    Imagine searching "herpes treatments" in 2017 and someone extorting you in 2027 because they got a hold of your search data.

    Posted via CB10
    What are your thoughts on duckduckgo? Any better? Or is the OS still beaming it all back home to Google and Apple?

    Posted via CB10
    01-04-17 05:48 PM
  2. Asuhmiaseh's Avatar
    Using a VPN should mitigate things as far as using search engines go. Other option to duckduckgo is startpage.

    Posted via CB10
    01-04-17 08:27 PM
  3. markmall's Avatar
    What are your thoughts on duckduckgo? Any better? Or is the OS still beaming it all back home to Google and Apple?

    Posted via CB10
    I have been using duck duck go on my Passport as an experiment. I like it but it lacks for things like maps (I think). It has a lot of promise. I don't think msft tracks your browser searches on Windows 10 if you're not on their browser although I don't really know. Google, on Android I don't know.

    You would think a modern day Ralph Nader would be taking this issue up.
    01-05-17 01:50 AM
  4. JSmith422's Avatar
    I have been using duck duck go on my Passport as an experiment. I like it but it lacks for things like maps (I think). It has a lot of promise. I don't think msft tracks your browser searches on Windows 10 if you're not on their browser although I don't really know. Google, on Android I don't know.

    You would think a modern day Ralph Nader would be taking this issue up.
    Ralph Nader, haha, I forgot about that guy. One would think someone would be all over it. Unfortunately, it seems most people don't even really believe it's going on. Anytime I try and tell people about it, they all tend to think that their phone is "secure" cause they've never had a problem.....its difficult to demonstrate that it's all being "beamed back to the mothership" and that puts them at risk. It just doesn't seem to register for most people.

    Unfortunately, unless a new bb10 phone is released (not holding my breath), then it's IOS or Blackberry Android.

    Sounds like everyone thinks IOS is the way to go......unfortunately I just cringe at either choice.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-17 05:11 PM
  5. svein99's Avatar
    Don't rely on government to protect your privacy. Even when they try, business (and crooks) are usually far ahead. See example below.

    Duckduckgo is great and I like the continus feed (no need to select page up/dn).


    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...s-report-warns

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-17 11:38 AM
  6. Emaderton3's Avatar
    What about Apple? Similar to Google Android, I would assume you would need to be "logged in" to your iPhone for full functionality or no? What about tracking through an iTunes account? I am just curious.

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-17 02:53 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    Don't rely on government to protect your privacy. Even when they try, business (and crooks) are usually far ahead. See example below.

    Duckduckgo is great and I like the continus feed (no need to select page up/dn).


    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...s-report-warns

    Posted via CB10
    What is continuous feed? Not sure I know about this.

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-17 05:21 PM
  8. JSmith422's Avatar
    What about Apple? Similar to Google Android, I would assume you would need to be "logged in" to your iPhone for full functionality or no? What about tracking through an iTunes account? I am just curious.

    Posted via CB10

    We've been trying to figure this out as well. That's part of the problem is that nobody really knows who is tracking what and when. We can't seem to find a single reliable source that can tell us exactly what any one company has access to.....including Blackberry. If I was to venture a guess, our beloved bb10 is probably much less private than many of us would like to believe, and Apple is worse.

    Posted via CB10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-11-17 10:32 PM
  9. JSmith422's Avatar
    Using a VPN should mitigate things as far as using search engines go. Other option to duckduckgo is startpage.

    Posted via CB10
    What VPN service do you use?

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-17 10:34 PM
  10. JSmith422's Avatar
    I have been using duck duck go on my Passport as an experiment. I like it but it lacks for things like maps (I think). It has a lot of promise. I don't think msft tracks your browser searches on Windows 10 if you're not on their browser although I don't really know. Google, on Android I don't know.

    You would think a modern day Ralph Nader would be taking this issue up.
    Was just reading about Windows 10, do you or have you used it yet?

    Posted via CB10
    01-11-17 10:37 PM
  11. markmall's Avatar
    Was just reading about Windows 10, do you or have you used it yet?

    Posted via CB10
    I had it come stock on a Surface tablet. I got rid of it and replaced it with 8.1, which is a much better OS with fewer driver issues. I recommend 8.1. It got vilified because of the Metro interface which should have been optional on desktop PCs.
    01-12-17 12:13 AM
  12. Soulstream's Avatar
    We've been trying to figure this out as well. That's part of the problem is that nobody really knows who is tracking what and when. We can't seem to find a single reliable source that can tell us exactly what any one company has access to.....including Blackberry. If I was to venture a guess, our beloved bb10 is probably much less private than many of us would like to believe, and Apple is worse.

    Posted via CB10
    Using any OS or app requires a certain degree of trust put into the OS/app developer. BB10 is no exception to that rule. It just depends on you how far that trust goes.
    01-12-17 09:24 AM
  13. markmall's Avatar
    We've been trying to figure this out as well. That's part of the problem is that nobody really knows who is tracking what and when. We can't seem to find a single reliable source that can tell us exactly what any one company has access to.....including Blackberry. If I was to venture a guess, our beloved bb10 is probably much less private than many of us would like to believe, and Apple is worse.

    Posted via CB10
    Do you really think that Blackberry is competent at this point to monitor anything? Chen is trying to convince himself and we do not even exist.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 10:55 AM
  14. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Do you really think that Blackberry is competent at this point to monitor anything? Chen is trying to convince himself and we do not even exist.

    Posted via CB10
    It would imagine monitoring/data mining is fairly automated and performed by computer algorithms. If they have the infrastructure in place, I don't see why it's not a possibility. After all, the are collecting some info.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 11:52 AM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    It would imagine monitoring/data mining is fairly automated and performed by computer algorithms. If they have the infrastructure in place, I don't see why it's not a possibility. After all, the are collecting some info.

    Posted via CB10
    When you set up BB10 it asks for permission to collect limited use data to improve performance. I highly doubt BlackBerry is data mining for marketing purposes or to sell to third parties. No way. Not part of its business model and not disclosed. I think it would be illegal.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 02:36 PM
  16. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    When you set up BB10 it asks for permission to collect limited use data to improve performance. I highly doubt BlackBerry is data mining for marketing purposes or to sell to third parties. No way. Not part of its business model and not disclosed. I think it would be illegal.
    ... Said the guy who has clearly not read BB's own Terms of Service. They spell out all of the data they can collect, and it reads just like Google's, Apple's, and Microsoft's TOS. Heck, it could have been copied directly from one of them!
    01-12-17 03:51 PM
  17. tre10's Avatar
    When you set up BB10 it asks for permission to collect limited use data to improve performance. I highly doubt BlackBerry is data mining for marketing purposes or to sell to third parties. No way. Not part of its business model and not disclosed. I think it would be illegal.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually they kinda do. They reserve the right to collect and aggregate anonymous data and then sell trade or rent it out. Just like Google Microsoft and Apple do. We know Google uses that anonymous data for targeted ads and Google Now and other such services . I personally have no idea what BlackBerry does with it. I'm not even sure what they are collecting in said anonymous data. I also have no way to access or delete said anonymous data. Blackberry Android or IOS - privacy/data mining survey?-screenshot_20170112-173305.png
    01-12-17 04:36 PM
  18. sidtek50's Avatar
    It's not even a question: android IS the biggest data miner out of the bunch. It's a fact. The entire Google suite is designed to harvest your data. I laugh so hard when I see people on this forum say "I'd never touch iOS, i'm going android, I trust them with my data!"

    Are these people trolling? Let's take gmail for example - when you receive an email, Google scans that email and picks out keywords, so let's say you're discussing cars with your friend via email. Don't be surprised if you start seeing ads appearing for cars. Remember guys, this is the company that went around looking at your wifi and seeing if it was password protected. This is the company who have had so many legal cases thrown at them for data collection it boggles my mind: Google Engineer Told Others of Data Collection, F.C.C. Report Reveals - The New York Times

    Still think Google is ok? Google knows where you've travelled via its maps application. Google even knows where you last parked your car. Think that's not scary, then how about this: https://moz.com/blog/the-evil-side-o...ata-collection

    Cookies? Javascript being inserted into pages to rip out information about your computer to send it to google?? Come on. That sounds like something a hacker would do!

    Shall we be more specific about the android device itself? Like google keyboard?? Google's virtual keyboard can send your messages back to google. If you're hardcore and still not scared - then how about Google chrome? Chrome sends your data back to Google for analysis, correlation and trends. Don't forget that Google has your photos from onedrive - your calendar etc.

    There's no question about it. Google's ecosystem is designed to take as much of your data about you as possible. That way they can improve their services and make more money from ads and selling data. I sometimes wonder EXACTLY who Google sell their data to. Create a new gmail account today - use it for a month or so and you're almost guaranteed to get spam email. Could it be a coincidence? Or are google selling your data/email address to other companies who then spam you with crap?

    And if you're still jumping on the Google train - they even know what you watch. They own youtube. Even if you delete your 'watched' history, it's too late. They know what you saw, how long you saw it for, when you saw it, and where you saw it from. Believe me, Google is the devil. They didn't acquire youtube for fun. They didn't make Google+ for fun, or Google Hangouts. They created all of their services to harvest data because it makes them insane amounts of money and it also lets them know more about you *insert Government conspiracy here*.

    In short: iOS is the OS for me. I tried W10M and I just couldn't fully like it. It was a bit too buggy for my liking and the app store is far from great. That leaves us with Ubuntu mobile - which from what i've seen, is essentially a prototype which gets very, very little love. In fact, you can't even buy a ubuntu mobile device at the time of writing.

    I am genuinely depressed that there are only two main OS's now (iOS and android). I'd absolutely love for BB10, W10M, Android and iOS to compete. The problem is that Android, being open-source and having huge financial backing was able to take off faster than Windows Mobile and BB10. We should count ourselves lucky that Apple actually have made an iPhone otherwise Android would be the ONLY serious contender.

    I could go on forever about this topic. I'm not even trying to put you off Google - I use Gmail. But the idea that Google respects your privacy has been proved incorrect time and time again. Is Apple better? Actually yes, Apple IS better at privacy - however, they're starting to offer similar features to Google and only time will tell if they respect our privacy.
    01-12-17 07:31 PM
  19. thurask's Avatar
    BlackBerry Software EULA, Canadian version, relevant sections (24 and 25):

    http://pastebin.com/j2qCTH0R

    Usual boilerplate stuff under a mountain of legalese. Of course, section 25 coupled with being oddly close to governments means that they're no martyrs for data protection; quite the opposite, when you look at Chen's reaction to the San Bernardino iPhone case, or what Chen's BFF Rudy Giuliani has been up to.

    As much as the vocal minority don't like it, if one doesn't like having anyone at all storing any data even tangentially related to them, then they should go live in the woods. Your ISP, your carrier, your smartphone OEM are all in on it. Even BlackBerry.

    The trade off for collection of user data is services provided. Apple, Microsoft and Google all collect telemetry data on their users and devices while providing mobile app stores, music management, email, photo backup, cloud storage, mapping, all the useful services expected of a device from this decade. BlackBerry 10 could half-*** that at best, and yet not only is BlackBerry still in possession of your user data, a memo from any government which has them on their payroll (read: yours) puts even supposedly encrypted BBM chats on the table. I wouldn't suggest using a BlackBerry in a Gulf state.

    Some stuff can be done without: for one, I don't use Facebook, not the least of which is due to the Android app being outsourced to a baboon. But for mobile devices, consumers prefer phones that do what they want them to do rather than phones that reach German levels of anal retentive privacy enforcement. You might notice the "secure phone" marketing from OEMs (Samsung Knox, BlackBerry Android) is linked to malicious apps or employees rather than data leakage, since if the majority of consumers were concerned about data leakage then developers would be out of a business model. A bung app from China that puts encrypting malware on your Windows PC is more worrisome than background telemetry.

    That said, unless one has a time machine to preemptively regulate the Internet, or the time to pick telemetry packets out of all network traffic (some tools do exist but aren't perfect), then this is becoming unavoidable. The cost of becoming part of an anonymous data set is offset by the rewards tied to a Google/Apple/Microsoft account, and that works swimmingly for over 99% of consumers.

    tl;dr: it's gonna happen anyway, at least get something in return.
    Last edited by thurask; 01-12-17 at 08:36 PM.
    01-12-17 08:17 PM
  20. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    ... Said the guy who has clearly not read BB's own Terms of Service. They spell out all of the data they can collect, and it reads just like Google's, Apple's, and Microsoft's TOS. Heck, it could have been copied directly from one of them!
    BB's TOS must be written that way, because some people activate services like Voice Assistant, Locations, Telemetry, Finding Contacts, BB Protect or BBM (without e2e license).

    All these services can be disabled, and there are ways even for consumers to get BBM Protected.
    However, you can't write your TOS assuming the customers won't use any of the additional services.

    I for instance care about my privacy, but I have BB Protected enabled.

    I understand enough about math to know that I would lose the math war against Google, so I use only their search engine and sometimes Google maps in the browser, but without a Google account and certainly always blocking certain Google domains.
    01-12-17 09:23 PM
  21. Emaderton3's Avatar
    BB's TOS must be written that way, because some people activate services like Voice Assistant, Locations, Telemetry, Finding Contacts, BB Protect or BBM (without e2e license).

    All these services can be disabled, and there are ways even for consumers to get BBM Protected.
    However, you can't write your TOS assuming the customers won't use any of the additional services.

    I for instance care about my privacy, but I have BB Protected enabled.

    I understand enough about math to know that I would lose the math war against Google, so I use only their search engine and sometimes Google maps in the browser, but without a Google account and certainly always blocking certain Google domains.
    I get targeted ads regardless of what browser I use and if I'm logged in or not. It is pervasive and not limited to Google.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 10:16 PM
  22. JSmith422's Avatar
    I get targeted ads regardless of what browser I use and if I'm logged in or not. It is pervasive and not limited to Google.

    Posted via CB10
    What device do you use?

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 10:43 PM
  23. JSmith422's Avatar
    [QUOTE=thurask;....

    "....The cost of becoming part of an anonymous data set is offset by the rewards tied to a Google/Apple/Microsoft account, and that works swimmingly for over 99% of consumers."

    tl;dr: it's gonna happen anyway, at least get something in return.[/QUOTE]

    Is it really anonymous though? Many TOS refer to a residential IP address as anonymous, but in the real world thats hardly anonymous. We all know it's traceable right to your front door.

    Data is constantly under subpoena for various civil and criminal court cases, if it was truly anonymous, all that data would be worthless to those involved in the cases. But again, we all know that's not the situation with these companies. Personally, I don't think anonymity exists in 2017. Not that I have a solution. I'm just sayin' =) Haha.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 10:56 PM
  24. thurask's Avatar
    Is it really anonymous though? Many TOS refer to a residential IP address as anonymous, but in the real world thats hardly anonymous. We all know it's traceable right to your front door.

    Data is constantly under subpoena for various civil and criminal court cases, if it was truly anonymous, all that data would be worthless to those involved in the cases. But again, we all know that's not the situation with these companies. Personally, I don't think anonymity exists in 2017. Not that I have a solution. I'm just sayin' =) Haha.

    Posted via CB10
    What advertisers want (locations and interests) is not the same as what governments, copyright trolls and other assorted scum want (names and actions), although at least some ISPs have the huevos to try and fight court orders for the latter.
    01-12-17 11:18 PM
  25. markmall's Avatar
    ... Said the guy who has clearly not read BB's own Terms of Service. They spell out all of the data they can collect, and it reads just like Google's, Apple's, and Microsoft's TOS. Heck, it could have been copied directly from one of them!
    OK, let's see it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-17 11:21 PM
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