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12-10-18 10:22 AM
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  1. markmall's Avatar
    Then bringing up loyalty of BB10 users. The minute BlackBerry chooses better strategy by choosing BBAndroid like it should have done from beginning, all the loyalists ������ complaining. At what point does anyone understand BlackBerry should have gone under around time of Z30 introduction but not for Chen.

    A child could have kept BB from going under after Prem gave it financing. Slashing job and selling things does not a genius make. Not saying he was wrong necessarily, but anyone could do that.


    Posted via CB10
    12-04-18 02:49 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    A child could have kept BB from going under after Prem gave it financing. Slashing job and selling things does not a genius make. Not saying he was wrong necessarily, but anyone could do that.


    Posted via CB10
    Oh, please.

    The extra $billion would have been gone in a matter of months without a firm new business plan.

    "Rob Enderle, president at Enderle Group said Chen did, in fact, do the impossible, and is certainly deserving of his contract renewal."

    "Rob Enderle is an American technology analyst.

    Enderle has worked at several technology companies, including EMS Development Company, ROLM Systems and IBM, before becoming a technology analyst. He began his analyst career at Dataquest, before helping to launch GiGa Information Group. After GiGa was acquired by Forrester Research, he worked at Forrester until leaving to found his own firm, the Enderle Group.

    Enderle writes a number of columns for technological publications and regularly appears on radio and television. He sits on several advisory councils, including those for Lenovo, AMD and HP. He shares a technology blog at Technology Pundits. He has worked as an advisor for Microsoft, Dell, IBM, Siemens, and Intel, among other companies."

    Just Google this guy.
    Last edited by conite; 12-05-18 at 07:52 PM.
    12-04-18 02:52 PM
  3. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    No. “Condescending” is BlackBerry users assuming, with zero empirical evidence, that they are more productive that Android or iOS users simply because of the phone brand they happen to prefer. “Condescending” is insisting that e-mail, text messages and phone calls are the only useful things a phone can do, and assuming that apps are a waste of time and people only use them because they’re mindless zombies, or sheep, or whatever other nonsense.

    Telling BBOS and BB10 users that their phones are obsolete, no longer supported, and will lose functionality (or stop functioning in any useful way at all) in the near future is just factual.
    Telling BBOS and BB10 users that their phones will lose functionality that has not been specified by BBL is not factual, but I suspect that will not stop anyone on CB from making the attempt. Also, assuming one actually is passing on factual information, one can still do it in a condescending way...which is something that happens on almost every thread discussing this topic at CB.

    Again, I don't think that condescension will stop just because it's pointed out...but it's worth the clarification for the record.
    12-04-18 02:57 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    A child could have kept BB from going under after Prem gave it financing. Slashing job and selling things does not a genius make. Not saying he was wrong necessarily, but anyone could do that.


    Posted via CB10
    1) Chen made it look easy in the lookback. Creditors, future and present along with asset buyers were impressed with Chen and not just anyone would get that respect. Many asset buyers were looking for “circling the drain” pricing for the properties etc that Chen liquidated. He was able to convince many that there would be no fire sale. Vendors and future acquisitions were dependent on Chen walking a tightrope.

    It was Prem/Chen way or nothing. There wasn’t anyone else that wanted to step forward like Prem with his lifeline. Tire kickers including BB founders didn’t step forward after exploratory stage.....
    12-04-18 02:59 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    Telling BBOS and BB10 users that their phones will lose functionality that has not been specified by BBL is not factual.
    In the absence of complete information, telling people to assume the worst is the most honest/prudent answer one can give.

    Suggesting otherwise is not only disingenuous, but perhaps straight-up misleading.
    Last edited by conite; 12-04-18 at 03:11 PM.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and howarmat like this.
    12-04-18 03:01 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Telling BBOS and BB10 users that their phones will lose functionality that has not been specified by BBL is not factual, but I suspect that will not stop anyone on CB from making the attempt. Also, assuming one actually is passing on factual information, one can still do it in a condescending way...which is something that happens on almost every thread discussing this topic at CB.

    Again, I don't think that condescension will stop just because it's pointed out...but it's worth the clarification for the record.
    BBOS phones need BIS and don’t have true 4GLTE if memory serves me. They require legacy 3G GSM/CDMA plus have some HSPA capabilities depending on version. Carrier don’t want BIS since revenue is shared and support costs are legacy to current data networks. Therefore, carriers will happily drop BIS on 12/31/2019 support. Can BBOS hardware operate in standard data environment, sure, but functionality is more gimped than BB10 and that’s being gracious. I’ve said repeatedly, that nobody is sure what happens to BB10, however preparation for the worst is a good idea. BBOS, is dead in the water, that’s unless BOTH carriers and BBL agree to some extension which is highly unlikely. Carriers want to upgrade those legacy customers with new hardware consuming data.
    12-04-18 03:09 PM
  7. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    In the absence of complete information, telling people to assume the worst is the most honest/prudent answer one can give.

    Suggesting otherwise is not only disingenuous, but perhaps straight-up misleading.
    Suggesting people prepare for the worst is one thing.

    Telling people to assume there's a better-than-even chance their phones will simply stop working particularly when there is no evidence to remotely suggest that, is what is not only disingenuous, but perhaps straight-up misleading.

    Telling people this with the tone that is used in most posts covering the issue on CB is what is condescending.
    12-04-18 03:44 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Suggesting people prepare for the worst is one thing.

    Telling people to assume there's a better-than-even chance their phones will simply stop working particularly when there is no evidence to remotely suggest that, is what is not only disingenuous, but perhaps straight-up misleading.

    Telling people this with the tone that is used in most posts covering the issue on CB is what is condescending.
    Better-than-even chance? Where was that ever stated?
    12-04-18 03:48 PM
  9. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Better-than-even chance? Where was that ever stated?
    I am admittedly paraphrasing that term based on implications from your other statements. However, I believe I'm on firm ground in stating that the implication has certainly been, to paraphrase Milton, "Abandon hope all ye BB10 users" after December 31, 2019. Since Blackberry Limited has only stated they are shutting down Blackberry World after that point, and since BB10 phones are known to be able to function without any Blackberry infrastructure whatsoever, wording which communicates such an impression is disingenuous and the like.
    12-04-18 04:02 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    I am admittedly paraphrasing that term based on implications from your other statements. However, I believe I'm on firm ground in stating that the implication has certainly been, to paraphrase Milton, "Abandon hope all ye BB10 users" after December 31, 2019. Since Blackberry Limited has only stated they are shutting down Blackberry World after that point, and since BB10 phones are known to be able to function without any Blackberry infrastructure whatsoever, wording which communicates such an impression is disingenuous and the like.
    Well, I don't know what you're attributing to me, but I will restate to make it crystal clear:

    Without complete information, it is prudent to assume the worst - that the entire BBID infrastructure will be shuttered, and that no apps can be restored after Dec 2019.
    12-04-18 04:17 PM
  11. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Well, I don't know what you're attributing to me, but I will restate to make it crystal clear:

    Without complete information, it is prudent to assume the worst - that the entire BBID infrastructure will be shuttered, and that no apps can be restored after Dec 2019.
    Great. I will also restate to make my own perspective crystal clear:

    Given the information to date, and what we know and can test about Blackberry 10 functionality, it is prudent to assume that while Blackberry World will be shut down and unavailable as an app source you will still be able to use your Blackberry 10 device normally with any apps currently installed after Dec 2019. You will also be able to restore your OS and your files and data. Additionally, you can sideload any BAR files of apps you may have, and install any APKs that will work.

    It is possible that Blackberry Limited-provided functionality will be shut down over the course of the next year or at its end. It is a certainty that any functionality which does not rely on Blackberry Limited will continue to work based on tests done to date.
    12-04-18 04:24 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Great. I will also restate to make my own perspective crystal clear:

    Given the information to date, and what we know and can test about Blackberry 10 functionality, it is prudent to assume that while Blackberry World will be shut down and unavailable as an app source you will still be able to use your Blackberry 10 device normally with any apps currently installed after Dec 2019. You will also be able to restore your OS and your files and data. Additionally, you can sideload any BAR files of apps you may have, and install any APKs that will work.

    It is possible that Blackberry Limited-provided functionality will be shut down over the course of the next year or at its end. It is a certainty that any functionality which does not rely on Blackberry Limited will continue to work based on tests done to date.
    This is what we hope happens, yes.

    But anyone using a BB10 device as primary, needs to be more proactive, and have an immediate contingency plan in place in case you're assuming incorrectly.
    12-04-18 04:33 PM
  13. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    This is what we hope happens, yes.

    But anyone using a BB10 device as primary, needs to be more proactive, and have an immediate contingency plan in place in case you're assuming incorrectly.
    I am always a fan of contingency plans. However, in this case, there is no more need for them than for those using any other device, as there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that the core functionality (or indeed any app that is already installed on a device) will stop functioning after December 31, 2019.

    I do use a BB10 device as a primary, and my contingency plan is to have another BB10 device (multiples, in fact) ready in case my main device breaks down. If people want to have another phone available of a different OS that's certainly their perogative. But there is no more need to do so than there is to have one if you have an iPhone and are worried about something extremely unlikely happening to Apple or a GooBerry and are worried about something extremely unlikely happening to Google.
    12-04-18 04:43 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This is what we hope happens, yes.

    But anyone using a BB10 device as primary, needs to be more proactive, and have an immediate contingency plan in place in case you're assuming incorrectly.
    If things were going to remain as-is, no EOL announcement or shutting things down would have been necessary.

    I always say I'm no IT guy so look at it from a non-technical perspective. For the average non-technical user like me, BB10 will breakdown pretty fast after 12/31/2019 is what I suspect.

    The minute I have to PM TrumpetTiger or anyone else(no offense)for go-arounds, the device is dead since it's no longer reliable. The very idea behind using a BlackBerry was productivity and efficiency. This is why I stopped carrying BB10 hardware for daily use.
    12-04-18 04:45 PM
  15. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    If things were going to remain as-is, no EOL announcement or shutting things down would have been necessary.

    I always say I'm no IT guy so look at it from a non-technical perspective. For the average non-technical user like me, BB10 will breakdown pretty fast after 12/31/2019 is what I suspect.

    The minute I have to PM TrumpetTiger or anyone else(no offense)for go-arounds, the device is dead since it's no longer reliable. The very idea behind using a BlackBerry was productivity and efficiency. This is why I stopped carrying BB10 hardware for daily use.
    That's certainly your choice Chuck, and I understand your logic. However, I'd argue that EOL announcements are simply being courteous on the part of Blackberry Limited (and giving us two years is a loooong bit of lead time, so props to them for that). The fact that they did announce BBW's shutdown but haven't said anything about Blackberry ID infrastructure suggests that that may well be kept on or that they have other plans in mind for it. Last year around this time was when we got the notice about BBW, so we may be getting additional clarification soon.

    I'm totally with you on the non-technical perspective, but I'd submit that there are a fair number of non-technical people on BB10 who just want privacy, security, and reliable messaging, perhaps with some media use thrown in. BB10 will still be usable for that, and will be as productive and efficient as ever, long into the future even after BBW is no longer available.
    12-04-18 04:49 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    BB10 will still be usable for that, and will be as productive and efficient as ever, long into the future even after BBW is no longer available.
    May the limb you stand on be strong and true.
    12-04-18 04:55 PM
  17. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    May the limb you stand on be strong and true.
    It's the limb of a true Blackberry tree, so I'm confident in its strength and reliability.
    12-04-18 04:57 PM
  18. bb92a5's Avatar
    oh...

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-18 12:34 AM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It's the limb of a true Blackberry tree, so I'm confident in its strength and reliability.
    BlackBerry's... are small bushes, there are no limbs to stand on.

    And they don't last all year...
    12-05-18 08:30 AM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BlackBerry's... are small bushes, there are no limbs to stand on.

    And they don't last all year...
    Ain’t that right??
    12-05-18 08:39 AM
  21. joeldf's Avatar
    BlackBerry's... are small bushes, there are no limbs to stand on.

    And they don't last all year...
    Ain’t that right??
    But they do have some pretty nasty thorns if you're not careful. They do make you work for that tasty treat when they're ready...
    12-05-18 09:13 AM
  22. markmall's Avatar
    1) Chen made it look easy in the lookback. Creditors, future and present along with asset buyers were impressed with Chen and not just anyone would get that respect. Many asset buyers were looking for “circling the drain” pricing for the properties etc that Chen liquidated. He was able to convince many that there would be no fire sale. Vendors and future acquisitions were dependent on Chen walking a tightrope.

    It was Prem/Chen way or nothing. There wasn’t anyone else that wanted to step forward like Prem with his lifeline. Tire kickers including BB founders didn’t step forward after exploratory stage.....
    Asset buyers were impressed with Chen? Like... "yes, I'd like to buy that building on the cheap but that rascally Chen is so talented a negotiator I'm going to pay way above market. Heck, that guy could sell anything!"

    Or how about... "Chen is so good at selecting staff to lay off to save money. He's so good at firing people. He waits until after Christmas but not a day longer than necessary"?

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-18 12:25 PM
  23. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    But they do have some pretty nasty thorns if you're not careful. They do make you work for that tasty treat when they're ready...
    Ah, but the berry is so sweet and tasty. I'd argue it's just a case of wanting the protection of the thorns while still having the tasty treat available. Blackberries let you have both.
    12-05-18 03:07 PM
  24. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Ah, but the berry is so sweet and tasty. I'd argue it's just a case of wanting the protection of the thorns while still having the tasty treat available. Blackberries let you have both.
    Okay, you tortured that metaphor so thoroughly that you probably violated several articles of the Geneva Convention.
    12-05-18 04:13 PM
  25. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Okay, you tortured that metaphor so thoroughly that you probably violated several articles of the Geneva Convention.
    If the Geneva Convention now applies to cyberspace, I believe the Android Overlords and GooBerry users have far more to worry about than this humble Blackberry 10 user.
    12-05-18 04:34 PM
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