12-10-18 11:22 AM
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  1. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    I'm wondering what happens to our BB10 devices such as my Classic post-2019 when support for this OS is stopped.
    11-11-18 11:08 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I'm wondering what happens to our BB10 devices such as my Classic post-2019 when support for this OS is stopped.
    Nobody knows.
    11-11-18 11:21 AM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It's true that no one (here) knows for sure, but we do know that BB10 phones are unique in their reliance on connections to BB servers for a number of key functions, including the restoring of a Link backup.

    While BB10 users can certainly hope for the best, they should definitely plan for the worst. By that, I mean primarily that you should have all of your data backed up in open formats, because BB-specific formats may be useless and you can't extract data from them.

    You should also make sure that you have backed up all data that is on encrypted storage (be that the phone's internal storage or an SD card) in an unencrypted format. (This is ALWAYS a requirement when using encryption.)

    If your BB10 phone is your primary or only device, and being without your phone would be a problem, then you should prepare by having an alternative (non-BB10) device set up and ready to go.

    It's not a question of IF you will have to stop using BB10, but when. In addition to BB-specific reasons, there are network reasons (refarming cell towers requiring different frequency bands) and hardware reasons (phones and/or batteries wearing out) that will affect different people at different times - and is already happening for some.

    Use BB10 as long as it works for you, but be aware that the cell phone environment is in a constant state of change, and that works against products that are static - they get left behind for a variety of reasons.

    Make sure your data will be accessible to you if your phone stops working (which could happen at any time) and make sure you have an alternative in case BB10 is suddenly no longer usable for you for whatever reason. If you have those two bases covered, then you won't need to have much anxiety about the eventual end of BB10.
    11-11-18 03:18 PM
  4. ppeters914's Avatar
    It's true that no one (here) knows for sure, but we do know that BB10 phones are unique in their reliance on connections to BB servers for a number of key functions, including the restoring of a Link backup.

    While BB10 users can certainly hope for the best, they should definitely plan for the worst. By that, I mean primarily that you should have all of your data backed up in open formats, because BB-specific formats may be useless and you can't extract data from them.

    You should also make sure that you have backed up all data that is on encrypted storage (be that the phone's internal storage or an SD card) in an unencrypted format. (This is ALWAYS a requirement when using encryption.)

    If your BB10 phone is your primary or only device, and being without your phone would be a problem, then you should prepare by having an alternative (non-BB10) device set up and ready to go.

    It's not a question of IF you will have to stop using BB10, but when. In addition to BB-specific reasons, there are network reasons (refarming cell towers requiring different frequency bands) and hardware reasons (phones and/or batteries wearing out) that will affect different people at different times - and is already happening for some.

    Use BB10 as long as it works for you, but be aware that the cell phone environment is in a constant state of change, and that works against products that are static - they get left behind for a variety of reasons.

    Make sure your data will be accessible to you if your phone stops working (which could happen at any time) and make sure you have an alternative in case BB10 is suddenly no longer usable for you for whatever reason. If you have those two bases covered, then you won't need to have much anxiety about the eventual end of BB10.
    This should be a sticky and standard response to the ubiquitous "What Happens After December 31, 2019" posts.
    11-11-18 03:27 PM
  5. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses. So aside from backups that rely on BB services, BB10 phones should work ok from what we know today.

    Posted via CB10 using my BB Classic
    11-11-18 08:55 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses. So aside from backups that rely on BB services, BB10 phones should work ok from what we know today.

    Posted via CB10 using my BB Classic
    Well, no BlackBerry World.

    Plus, if the BBID infrastructure is shuttered, no BBM, no BlackBerry Protect, and no ability to factory reset the device.
    Troy Tiscareno and rarsen like this.
    11-11-18 09:27 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses. So aside from backups that rely on BB services, BB10 phones should work ok from what we know today.

    Posted via CB10 using my BB Classic
    Repeat after me...... nobody really knows for sure.....
    glwerry and The_Passporter like this.
    11-11-18 09:50 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses. So aside from backups that rely on BB services, BB10 phones should work ok from what we know today.
    @conite listed some obvious known problems, because BB has specifically announced some of it and others seem obvious extensions. But BB has also made it clear that various services can (and some already have) end or be unavailable before the 2020 date, as various contracts for third-party services expire. We've already seen a number of things go away, even without any specific prior notice - BB's announcement was designed to provide blanket coverage for any services that get discontinued. And, of course, if you are relying on any third-party software or services, those are dropping away pretty rapidly.

    No one here is privy to BB's specific plans other than the very few things they've specifically announced, but you need to be ready for the day when something that was vital to you stops working, because that day is coming. That might be tomorrow morning, it might be on 1/1/2020, or it might be in 2025 (but don't bet on that!). No one here can say for sure - but the odds heavily favor that day coming sooner rather than later. Be prepared. You'll have to figure out what that means for you, but be prepared for important things - even critical things - not to work - so that you aren't caught without a Plan B that you can implement quickly.
    ppeters914 and rarsen like this.
    11-11-18 11:40 PM
  9. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Because no one knows, I would like to add a note of irresponsibility here....(because that is the software development tradition )...
    Or they let BlackBerryWorld be farmed out....and access to it could be a fee (infastructure costs etc)....apps might still be free. Ditto for reloading OS, maybe app development environment as well. But heck you have to pay access fees on your smartphone anyways for network access....and you do sell yourself to access Google android....so can't see too much of a howl of protest. Or it could be ad sponsored...mabye even Crackberry takes a shot at it. Might depend on actually knowing the number of devices still active out in the wild...wifi and or cellular....millions, 10's of millions...or ten as they keep joking about here.
    11-12-18 01:20 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Because no one knows, I would like to add a note of irresponsibility here....(because that is the software development tradition )...
    Or they let BlackBerryWorld be farmed out....and access to it could be a fee (infastructure costs etc)....apps might still be free. Ditto for reloading OS, maybe app development environment as well. But heck you have to pay access fees on your smartphone anyways for network access....and you do sell yourself to access Google android....so can't see too much of a howl of protest. Or it could be ad sponsored...mabye even Crackberry takes a shot at it. Might depend on actually knowing the number of devices still active out in the wild...wifi and or cellular....millions, 10's of millions...or ten as they keep joking about here.
    What's the revenue model for an app store that provides free apps to less than 100,000 devices
    ppeters914 likes this.
    11-12-18 01:25 AM
  11. Nguyen1's Avatar
    I use a Q10 without BBID set on it, and it works just fine. Calls, text, emails, no problem. The loss of BB services in 2020 should not affect me, I think, as there are no BB services set up on my phone, including BB world.
    11-12-18 02:36 AM
  12. elfabio80's Avatar
    What's the revenue model for an app store that provides free apps to less than 100,000 devices
    100000??? Where does it come this number? Do you have access to internal BB info or working for them?

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-18 02:48 AM
  13. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    What's the revenue model for an app store that provides free apps to less than 100,000 devices
    well to be honest it may be a bridge to relaunch bb10 as an os. I note that Google invested in a non-google feature-phone os KAios.
    5:45 mark onwards of video is interesting take and not far from what has been argued elsewhere here.


    As stated elsewhere, for regulatory issues, being a near global monopoly they would be crazy not to just hand out money to blackberry to restart bb10- such that the marketplace is not a monopoly (less costly then fighting the fines like the EU's)
    11-12-18 04:28 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    well to be honest it may be a bridge to relaunch bb10 as an os. I note that Google invested in a non-google feature-phone os KAios.
    5:45 mark onwards of video is interesting take and not far from what has been argued elsewhere here.


    As stated elsewhere, for regulatory issues, being a near global monopoly they would be crazy not to just hand out money to blackberry to restart bb10- such that the marketplace is not a monopoly (less costly then fighting the fines like the EU's)
    Just going to hand out money to the competition?

    Google will adjust Android to fit the EU's "demands".... separate the OS from some of the Apps. Problem solved - just tougher on EU customers.

    KaiOS is a "smart" feature phone OS, which is still something in high demand in markets where data plans are very costly - already 40 Million devices sold. Google makes money off of eyeballs... by investing in KaiOS, they keep the eyeballs as KaiOS features Google's Search, Google's Maps, Google's YouTube and Google's Assistant.... That's really all Android is about anyway, they give it away remember.

    And while a $22 Million investment went a long way for the group that has brought the open and compatible with most hardware, Firefox OS back to life. BB10 isn't open sourced (and won't be), it's isn't friendly to today's hardware drivers, and it's not something too many developers out there are familiar with, it's a resource hog and requires more power than most of these basic KaiOS phones are running.... and it won't run today's apps with out a complex emulator.
    app_Developer likes this.
    11-12-18 08:45 AM
  15. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses. So aside from backups that rely on BB services, BB10 phones should work ok from what we know today.

    Posted via CB10 using my BB Classic
    Hello bb9900,

    This is essentially correct. While others may claim "nobody knows" between official notifications from Blackberry Limited and testing of how BBs work without services that may be shut down we can determine that BB10 devices will work the same as they do today.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-18 07:03 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    we can determine that BB10 devices will work the same as they do today.

    Posted via CB10
    Not if they shut down the BBID infrastructure it won't.

    If they do turn it off, there would be no BBM and no BlackBerry Protect. We would also not be able to factory reset, or restore a backup.

    You may also recall the widespread WiFi connection issue back in June of 2014 which was, according to Clewley, a BlackBerry SERVER problem. So we don't really know what requires a "phone home" service.
    Last edited by conite; 11-13-18 at 07:35 PM.
    11-13-18 07:21 PM
  17. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Not if they shut down the BBID infrastructure it won't.

    If they do turn it off, there would be no BBM and no BlackBerry Protect. We would also not be able to factory reset, or restore a backup.

    You may also recall the widespread WiFi connection issue back in June of 2014 which was, according to Clewley, a BlackBerry SERVER problem. So we don't really know what requires a "phone home" service.
    My response was selectively quoted, but as stated above there has been testing of how Blackberries will work without services that may be shut down. For the record, the ONLY service Blackberry Limited has stated will be shut down definitively is Blackberry World.

    However, if they shut down BBID infrastructure, Blackberry Protect will of course not work. If for some reason they don't transition BBM to Entek or otherwise make provision to keep the BB10 version running, that also may have issues. Factory resetting can be done using autoloaders, which do not require a Blackberry ID. Restoring backups taken by Link (as opposed to those taken using Ultimate Backup or other Blackberry 10 backup apps) would be an issue yes, as has already been stated.

    I am aware of no issues ever that have affected Blackberry 10 wireless connections that are in any way related to Blackberry servers. Furthermore, it would be unlikely in the extreme that a device would somehow require a call back to Blackberry servers to connect to wireless networks using industry standard protocols. That's simply not how wireless works.

    This returns me to my overall point: given the statements from Blackberry Limited and testing, we can determine that BB10 devices will work the same as they do today...others' assertions to the contrary notwithstanding.
    11-13-18 08:10 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    I am aware of no issues ever that have affected Blackberry 10 wireless connections that are in any way related to Blackberry servers. Furthermore, it would be unlikely in the extreme that a device would somehow require a call back to Blackberry servers to connect to wireless networks using industry standard protocols. That's simply not how wireless works.
    This is what everyone thought at the time, but we were wrong.

    Maybe you weren't around back then. Clewley released a statement about it.
    11-13-18 08:12 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    This returns me to my overall point: given the statements from Blackberry Limited and testing, we can determine that BB10 devices will work the same as they do today...others' assertions to the contrary notwithstanding.
    We can't "determine" anything in the absence of information.

    "BlackBerry has announced they'll continue to support BB10 and BBOS users for at least another two years but it's not without some caveats. Those caveats include the fact that some services will be shut down over time."

    Is one of those services BBID? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    11-13-18 08:16 PM
  20. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    This is what everyone thought at the time, but we were wrong.

    Maybe you weren't around back then. Clewley released a statement about it.
    If there is an official statement from Blackberry Limited confirming that wireless-only connections were affected by a Blackberry server issue, I'd be happy to review it.
    11-13-18 08:21 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    If there is an official statement from Blackberry Limited confirming that wireless-only connections were affected by a Blackberry server issue, I'd be happy to review it.
    Clewley was all over the issue at the time. You can look for it yourself if you are interested.
    11-13-18 08:23 PM
  22. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    We can't "determine" anything in the absence of information.

    BlackBerry also said other services will continue to shut down as we head to Dec 2019:

    "BlackBerry has announced they'll continue to support BB10 and BBOS users for at least another two years but it's not without some caveats. Those caveats include the fact that some services will be shut down over time."
    We have information, which has been gathered from Blackberry Limited and the testing of BB10 users.

    You can of course disregard that information or put whatever weight you wish on it, but we do have it.

    Blackberry Limited has said "we will be closing some ancillary services such as the BlackBerry World app store (12/31/2019), the BlackBerry Travel site (February 2018), and the Playbook video calling service (March 2018)." That is far different from saying "we will continue to shut other services down without question as we head to December 2019."
    11-13-18 08:24 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    We have information, which has been gathered from Blackberry Limited and the testing of BB10 users.

    You can of course disregard that information or put whatever weight you wish on it, but we do have it.

    Blackberry Limited has said "we will be closing some ancillary services such as the BlackBerry World app store (12/31/2019), the BlackBerry Travel site (February 2018), and the Playbook video calling service (March 2018)." That is far different from saying "we will continue to shut other services down without question as we head to December 2019."
    "Such as"
    11-13-18 08:27 PM
  24. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    "Such as"
    Yes, that is what they said. However, that is what we know. We can reasonably assume that Blackberry ID services may be shut down, which is why testing to determine whether BB10 devices can function without them has been done. They can.
    11-13-18 08:29 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Yes, that is what they said. However, that is what we know. We can reasonably assume that Blackberry ID services may be shut down, which is why testing to determine whether BB10 devices can function without them has been done. They can.
    Except for the things I listed, yes.

    An autoloader will likely be possible, provided people remember to deactivate BlackBerry Protect before EOL.
    11-13-18 08:34 PM
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