01-01-16 01:55 AM
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  1. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Just reading this thread makes me sick. It may phase out. But i seriously don't want to hear about it.
    Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.
    PHughes likes this.
    12-17-15 10:02 AM
  2. ubizmo's Avatar
    Personally, I believe that they could keep moving with a dual OS strategy as Priv / Android sales will help them a lot to finance this. Remember, there is no need to develop Android, so they just need to fund QNX based BB10 and BlackBerry Apps and technologies into Android, besides, of course, all the main corporate systems and solutions they have.
    Unlike BBOS, which depended on the revenue-generating BIS, BB10 only makes money for BlackBerry when BB10 handsets are sold in sufficient quantities to offset the development costs. So far this hasn't happened. BlackBerry has continuously lost money on BB10 handsets. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to go to Android. So why would they want to use whatever money they might be making on the Priv (and, we can hope, Vienna) to "finance" further development of BB10? If -- and this is a large supposition -- they actually manage to turn a profit with Android devices, would it make any business sense for them to sink any of that profit into an endeavor that has consistently lost money for them? I can't see it.

    There may be no need to develop Android itself, but there is quite a job of work to do to get the BlackBerry overlay working properly on it. And that's going to be an ongoing process as Google releases updates to Android. BlackBerry can't control what's in those updates, so they have to respond to them as quickly as possible. I think it's reasonable to expect that this will get easier, as BlackBerry's team acquires more expertise in the BlackBerry-Android interactions, but I suspect it's always going to keep them quite busy.

    In my opinion, if BlackBerry had any intention at all of releasing new BB10 devices, they'd be saying something about it. They are fully aware of how people are reading the tea leaves concerning BB10, not just here but in the tech press generally. If they thought there were any new BB10 devices in the pipeline they'd have every reason to reassure the public about this.
    12-17-15 10:41 AM
  3. Ronindan's Avatar
    If people want to see how BB/RIM handle the transition from one OS to another. Have look at how OS 7 was phased out to OS 10.
    12-17-15 11:23 AM
  4. ubizmo's Avatar
    If people want to see how BB/RIM handle the transition from one OS to another. Have look at how OS 7 was phased out to OS 10.
    Exactly. BBOS received a few maintenance/security "enhancements" but features were frozen and some services, such as Traffic, went away.

    On that note, I'd expect BlackBerry Maps to go away too, but not for a couple of years. BlackBerry has to pay some kind of fees to TomTom for map and traffic data. With Google Maps available on Android for free, they have no incentive to keep BB Maps alive a single day longer than they have to.
    Ronindan and early2bed like this.
    12-17-15 11:31 AM
  5. lfcohen's Avatar
    Unlike BBOS, which depended on the revenue-generating BIS, BB10 only makes money for BlackBerry when BB10 handsets are sold in sufficient quantities to offset the development costs. So far this hasn't happened. BlackBerry has continuously lost money on BB10 handsets. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to go to Android. So why would they want to use whatever money they might be making on the Priv (and, we can hope, Vienna) to "finance" further development of BB10? If -- and this is a large supposition -- they actually manage to turn a profit with Android devices, would it make any business sense for them to sink any of that profit into an endeavor that has consistently lost money for them? I can't see it.

    There may be no need to develop Android itself, but there is quite a job of work to do to get the BlackBerry overlay working properly on it. And that's going to be an ongoing process as Google releases updates to Android. BlackBerry can't control what's in those updates, so they have to respond to them as quickly as possible. I think it's reasonable to expect that this will get easier, as BlackBerry's team acquires more expertise in the BlackBerry-Android interactions, but I suspect it's always going to keep them quite busy.

    In my opinion, if BlackBerry had any intention at all of releasing new BB10 devices, they'd be saying something about it. They are fully aware of how people are reading the tea leaves concerning BB10, not just here but in the tech press generally. If they thought there were any new BB10 devices in the pipeline they'd have every reason to reassure the public about this.
    Makes sense as long as they can really convince the regulated market and customers that the BlackBerry Android is the way to go. I don't believe we are yet there. So, yes, I think they still need to fill this market
    Yes, very niche, very small but needed. Someone has to. And with a sustainable operation based on other profitable operations like BlackBerry corporate systems / solutions and Android based devices, this might be doable.

    But, well, we will see..... :-)

    In the very end maybe they can just convert existing hardware to run Android.....he he hd



    Posted via CB10
    12-17-15 10:49 PM
  6. Matty's Avatar
    Is BlackBerry 10 now going to phase out?

    Posted via CB10
    If BlackBerry don't release a new BlackBerry 10 device in 2016 then we can safely say BlackBerry 10 is being phased out. But until then, keep the faith that BlackBerry will release some more bb10 devices. The Passport SE was released quite recently, so there is always hope

    A Berry A Day Keeps The Apple Away
    12-18-15 04:26 AM
  7. PHughes's Avatar
    Unlike BBOS, which depended on the revenue-generating BIS, BB10 only makes money for BlackBerry when BB10 handsets are sold in sufficient quantities to offset the development costs. So far this hasn't happened. BlackBerry has continuously lost money on BB10 handsets. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to go to Android. So why would they want to use whatever money they might be making on the Priv (and, we can hope, Vienna) to "finance" further development of BB10? If -- and this is a large supposition -- they actually manage to turn a profit with Android devices, would it make any business sense for them to sink any of that profit into an endeavor that has consistently lost money for them? I can't see it.
    So true, which os why they should have developed apps for the OS instead of getting rid of the majority of their BB10 developers. They dropped the ball on that. They also didn't make it attractive enough for other developers to create apps. They simply mismanaged the app side of the equation. It is too bad. I'm having a tough time finding an acceptable alternative that offers the same amount of control over how email is downloaded, file management, privacy and so on. The Priv isn't the phone since it runs Android, and is beholden to Google tracking. Many of us simply don't want that, and in its present form, it doesn't allow you to selectively turn off individual permissions for apps.

    Blackberry had a winner, had they actually tried to run the race.

    I am still plugging away with a Z10. I love the phone. I have been with Blackberry for many years, and still love them, but I am hesitant to buy a new Blackberry, I would go with the Passport despite the fact it doesn't have a removable battery. As it is, I doubt Blackberry will be my next phone. Of course, never say never. I can't find anything at the moment that I feel will work well enough for my needs.
    12-18-15 10:57 AM
  8. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Please find the post that I said there wouldn't be a 10.3.3. I did say that 10.3.3 and possibly 10.3.4 will be nothing but bug fixes.
    Upgrading the current BB10 to support new security standards isn't really even a point release. It should just be a new build of 10.3.2, but if BlackBerry calling it 10.3.3 leads some people to believe there's substantial improvement, well, BlackBerry got what they wanted.

    If BlackBerry don't release a new BlackBerry 10 device in 2016 then we can safely say BlackBerry 10 is being phased out. But until then, keep the faith that BlackBerry will release some more bb10 devices. The Passport SE was released quite recently, so there is always hope
    If BlackBerry wants to sell half a million more Priv devices at the maximum retail price, they should port BB10 to it. If BlackBerry is content to lower the SRP of the Priv from $700 USD to $550 USD to keep moving Android devices rather than spending a few 10s of millions of dollars to make $125 million in profit on BB10 Sliders that cost $700 USD retail, well, that doesn't make much sense.

    Of course, if you don't think there are 500,000 BB10 enthusiasts worldwide who would love to get their hands on a 5.5" QHD device with the 808 GPU and slider form factor, well, we'll have to disagree. I think there are MORE than 500,000, and still believe that BlackBerry supporting both Android and BB10 in parallel would result in the same device hardware (running BB10 and Android, separately) would result in higher profits and more device sales.

    Disagree if you want, but there's no proof either way, just another missed opportunity for the 'strategists' at BlackBerry.
    12-18-15 02:16 PM
  9. chrispdm1's Avatar
    I am still plugging away with a Z10. I love the phone. I have been with Blackberry for many years, and still love them, but I am hesitant to buy a new Blackberry, I would go with the Passport despite the fact it doesn't have a removable battery. As it is, I doubt Blackberry will be my next phone. Of course, never say never. I can't find anything at the moment that I feel will work well enough for my needs.
    I'm in the same boat. The Z10 has been awesome, starting to get a few more glitches here and there and the speed on the system overall is starting to slide. But Blackberry has nothing I want to upgrade to. The Passport has the specs that interest me, but is bigger than I want and I have no need for a physical keyboard. The Priv interested me (hybrid BB10 features on android) until I saw the price at my carrier. $400 on a contract, I'd have to be on drugs to pay that. I can get a One M9 for free and a Galaxy S6 for $150. If I'm forced to go android (I refuse to pay Apple kool-aid price premium) I'm going to do the research and find a phone that suits me best taking into consideration size, price, specs. Neither the Priv or the Vienna even enters the picture on what I want. Had BB released a full touch phone with Passport like specs, or even had one in the works on BB10, I would have waited for it.

    I wanted to support Blackberry, but I'm sick and tired of waiting. I waited this year for the Priv to come out and see what it would be like and thinking I would upgrade to it, but they priced it higher than I'm willing to pay, especially on android. I would have paid a bit of a premium for BB10. Blackberry has left us Z10 and Z30 owners out to dry and I've run out of patience. I've hoped and wanted for Blackberry to succeed, but they have bungled everything. I couldn't care less about this company's survival.
    PHughes likes this.
    12-18-15 02:36 PM
  10. PHughes's Avatar
    I'm in the same boat. The Z10 has been awesome, starting to get a few more glitches here and there and the speed on the system overall is starting to slide.
    I don't know what OS you are on, but 10.3.2.2813 substantially speeded up my Z10. http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...s-1051932-new/

    Today I updated to 2876, but the jury is still out on it. I just updated so I will give it some time. I will say that I believe 2813 scanned my SD card much quicker than 2876 did today. I will see how it goes over the next day or so.
    12-18-15 02:41 PM
  11. chrispdm1's Avatar
    Like any electronics, performance declines after a while due to heat, etc.
    12-18-15 02:51 PM
  12. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Like any electronics, performance declines after a while due to heat, etc.
    Is this a commonly held belief?
    12-18-15 03:01 PM
  13. chrispdm1's Avatar
    Yeah, it's fact. I work in IT a bit and build my own computers, etc. Switches and such build up resistance every time they are used. Capacitors start to fail. Heat is a big killer of electronics, joints and connections fluctutate with heat. Conducting paths get longer. Topic: Electronic/Electrical Reliability
    Why Electronics Fail | Electronic Repair Services
    http://www.dowcorning.com/content/et..._tutorial3.asp
    12-18-15 03:12 PM
  14. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Yeah, it's fact. I work in IT a bit and build my own computers, etc. Switches and such build up resistance every time they are used. Capacitors start to fail. Heat is a big killer of electronics, joints and connections fluctutate with heat. Conducting paths get longer. Topic: Electronic/Electrical Reliability
    Why Electronics Fail | Electronic Repair Services
    http://www.dowcorning.com/content/et..._tutorial3.asp
    OK good to know.
    Thanks.
    12-18-15 03:22 PM
  15. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Yeah, it's fact. I work in IT a bit and build my own computers, etc. Switches and such build up resistance every time they are used. Capacitors start to fail. Heat is a big killer of electronics, joints and connections fluctutate with heat. Conducting paths get longer. Topic: Electronic/Electrical Reliability
    Why Electronics Fail | Electronic Repair Services
    Why is Heat Bad for Electronic Devices? - Dow Corning

    Sorry dude I was just having you on a bit.
    A SOC(system on chip) typically does not degrade significantly in performance as measured at the user level.
    Performance degradation is pretty much binary as in works/does not work.

    But hey who am I to tell you?

    Do a memory/cpu benchmark on a pc today and then repeat the exact same test in 5 years, I think you will find the results are just about exactly the same.
    CmdrStraker likes this.
    12-18-15 04:01 PM
  16. BlackberryFan777's Avatar
    Yes unfortunately I tend to agree bb10 is done. I wish it wasn't so but the writing is on the wall now with priv presumed to be doing well.

    Posted via CB10
    Priv isn't doing well. At least not as well as BB10 did under Thor, which wasn't as great as BB10 would have performed in the marketplace if Chen didn't kill it some time ago. The Priv is, however, the first device under Chen that BlackBerry has pushed with considerable muscle -- so, it should sell better than other recent devices.

    There's one reason BB10 is probably dead that stands out in my mind: seemingly none of the people who were crucial to its development are still working on it. Many aren't even at BlackBerry. Developer relations is non-existent for the ecosystem.

    Basically, even if BB10 started selling with no push and Android didn't sell as well as Chen thinks it will, we couldn't transition back to BB10 without much added cost and embarrassment for Chen. He blew it. It's not going to happen.



    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 05:29 PM
  17. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    I honestly think that a huge portion of the blackberry community is blowing the whole topic of blackberry os being phased out way out of proportion. They site all kinds of reasons and how BlackBerry scaled back the workforce that was in development of os10 and yac yac yac... Well, of course any logical corporation would scale back resources way back because of massively declining sales! This no reason necessarily to conclude and panic that the os is going to be phased out. Maybe we are not going to get updates as often and as significant as we would like them, however, I do believe that the Os will survive. I am perfectly fine with the slow evolution of the os10. I have a few friends that are on os5 and os7 and they are happy, although I will admit, they are oldtimers.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-18-15 07:43 PM
  18. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    If BlackBerry don't release a new BlackBerry 10 device in 2016 then we can safely say BlackBerry 10 is being phased out. But until then, keep the faith that BlackBerry will release some more bb10 devices. The Passport SE was released quite recently, so there is always hope

    A Berry A Day Keeps The Apple Away
    We may have updates for the next few years at the very worst, and at best os10 will evolve slowly and eventually new devices will come. We may even see os11 at some point.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-18-15 07:49 PM
  19. th.1977's Avatar
    One can only dream of new bb10 devices. I won't be buying any more bb10 devices until I see some signs of life In it. I'm of the same opinion as the poster that said he couldn't care less if BlackBerry survives or fails. What I liked about BlackBerry is almost gone now, nothing left to hope for. And the price of their android offering is insane.

    Posted via CB10
    12-18-15 08:45 PM
  20. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    One can only dream of new bb10 devices. I won't be buying any more bb10 devices until I see some signs of life In it. I'm of the same opinion as the poster that said he couldn't care less if BlackBerry survives or fails. What I liked about BlackBerry is almost gone now, nothing left to hope for. And the price of their android offering is insane.

    Posted via CB10
    I will continue to purchase BlackBerry devices as long as they keep supporting the Os, even if it is in the most minimal way. It's far better than any of the alternatives out there (android and ios).

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-18-15 09:16 PM
  21. Vistaus's Avatar
    Chen has been pretty straight forward about the handset business. It is very low margin and the space in the other OSs is crowded. The PRIV is the last chance for BlackBerry to remain in the handset business.

    Chen already thinks there are now sufficient alternative secure handsets from other suppliers out there that he would not be reluctant to drop handsets altogether (and thus BB10) and finish the conversion to a software only business model. What kept the handset business going this long was the cash it would bring in. Market share is now so small that the cash infusion is no longer worthwhile unless the PRIV can make a significant dent in the high-end category.

    Blackberry is releasing its third quarter results tomorrow (Friday December 18th, 2015) along with PRIV sales figures. Chen has already stated that if the PRIV is not the success he needs, then he will be exiting the handset business altogether. We should know the future of this category and probably BB10 OS tomorrow morning.

    I don't blame Chen for the tough decisions he has to make. He wants Blackberry to succeed and has the credentials and track record to do so. He can't do this by hanging on to money-losing divisions. Blackberry is but a shadow of its former self and must find its niche in order to remain viable. Chen has identified the software side as the solution but revenues, though positive, have been relatively modest and slow to grow. Perhaps Blackberry will become great again but the odds are really stacked against that outcome.
    Although I love my PP to death and most other BB10 devices are great as well, I would be fine with a non-BB phone as long as it has BB10 as the OS (and preferably, a PKB) but only if it's pure (no software layer like on some Android phones) or as close to pure as possible.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    12-19-15 01:02 AM
  22. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Priv isn't doing well.
    Exactly. Have a look at this:

    Smartphones shipped:
    Q4FY13 03/2013: ?
    Q1FY14 06/2013: ?
    Q2FY14 09/2013: 3.7 mio, ? ("Most of the units recognized are BlackBerry 7 devices")
    Q3FY14 12/2013: 1.9 mio, ? ("Most of the devices recognized in the third quarter of fiscal 2014 were BlackBerry 7 devices")
    Q4FY14 03/2014: 1.3 mio, ? ("Most devices recognized were BlackBerry 10 devices")
    Q1FY15 06/2014: 1.6 mio, 65% BB10 = 1.04 mio BB10 devices
    Q2FY15 09/2014: 2.1 mio, 68% BB10 = 1.43 mio BB10 devices
    Q3FY15 12/2014: 2.0 mio, 69% BB10 = 1.38 mio BB10 devices
    Q4FY15 03/2015: 1.3 mio, 66% BB10 = 0.86 mio BB10 devices
    Q1FY16 06/2015: 1.1 mio, 81% BB10 = 0.89 mio BB10 devices
    Q2FY16 09/2015: 0.8 mio, 85% BB10 = 0.68 mio BB10 devices
    Q3FY16 12/2016: 0.7 mio, ? (split BB7/BB10/Android unknown)

    Every time the tried to hide something, the didn't give exact numbers. Not after BB10 launch which turned out to be a failure and not after Priv launch. Now count one and one.
    12-19-15 03:16 AM
  23. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    So true, which os why they should have developed apps for the OS instead of getting rid of the majority of their BB10 developers. They dropped the ball on that. They also didn't make it attractive enough for other developers to create apps. They simply mismanaged the app side of the equation. It is too bad. I'm having a tough time finding an acceptable alternative that offers the same amount of control over how email is downloaded, file management, privacy and so on. The Priv isn't the phone since it runs Android, and is beholden to Google tracking. Many of us simply don't want that, and in its present form, it doesn't allow you to selectively turn off individual permissions for apps.

    Blackberry had a winner, had they actually tried to run the race.

    I am still plugging away with a Z10. I love the phone. I have been with Blackberry for many years, and still love them, but I am hesitant to buy a new Blackberry, I would go with the Passport despite the fact it doesn't have a removable battery. As it is, I doubt Blackberry will be my next phone. Of course, never say never. I can't find anything at the moment that I feel will work well enough for my needs.
    Why not go with passport? Even if what the general assumptions here are about BlackBerry os10 become true, (and I doubt the they will) at the very worst you have at least a few years left of use it. Why the panic? If you like the Os just get a passport.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-19-15 07:11 AM
  24. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    Like any electronics, performance declines after a while due to heat, etc.
    I have not had any heat issues with my passport. I'm usually charging it before the battery gets below 60% however. So far, this has been my best smartphone Purchase ever. I don't understand why so many of you are panicking about the BlackBerry os 10. At the very worst, it has 2 years left of life and I believe it will be a lot longer.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-19-15 07:27 AM
  25. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I have not had any heat issues with my passport. I'm usually charging it before the battery gets below 60% however. So far, this has been my best smartphone Purchase ever. I don't understand why so many of you are panicking about the BlackBerry os 10. At the very worst, it has 2 years left of life and I believe it will be a lot longer.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Fernando you are long on opinion and short on evidence.
    Can you back up your claims?
    12-19-15 08:33 AM
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