01-01-16 01:55 AM
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  1. needforbbx's Avatar
    If you read the title, it clearly states "BlackBerry 10", not the company.
    I read it. I understand. BB10 is likely to disappear, but I'm ok with that as long as the company doesn't. I have a priv and a passport (z30 is retired). I'm happy with both.
    ronfc likes this.
    12-14-15 08:53 AM
  2. kvndoom's Avatar
    When BlackBerry starts hiring programmers for BB10 instead of laying them off, then i'll believe that BB10 has a future. Until then, keep that ventilator running!

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    12-14-15 09:22 AM
  3. crucial bbq's Avatar
    When BlackBerry starts hiring programmers for BB10 instead of laying them off, then i'll believe that BB10 has a future. Until then, keep that ventilator running!

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    So, did RIM fire all of their Java coders, only to hire an entirely new group to work with C/C++ since BB10 no longer supported Java? And did they again hire an entirely new group to once again work in Java when they decided to go Android on BlackBerry?

    They no doubt laid off programmers, but seriously, the core of their programmers are likely to be a group that worked on BBOS and BB10 as well.
    12-14-15 09:54 AM
  4. 2WheelSpeed's Avatar
    Consumer BB10 has been dead for a while but like any business they will continue to sell it to whomever wants to buy it. I see BB10 existing only in high security communication in government and military until such time as BlackBerry security in Android is comparable to BB10 then it's gone forever. Too bad because the software is excellent there was just not enough uptake.

    Posted via CB10
    12-14-15 10:11 AM
  5. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    What do you mean "you people"?
    Don't take it personally. I meant with the OP and the rest of the commentary.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-14-15 10:37 AM
  6. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So, did RIM fire all of their Java coders, only to hire an entirely new group to work with C/C++ since BB10 no longer supported Java? And did they again hire an entirely new group to once again work in Java when they decided to go Android on BlackBerry?

    They no doubt laid off programmers, but seriously, the core of their programmers are likely to be a group that worked on BBOS and BB10 as well.
    Are you a programmer? No all programming languages can carry forward when changing from a programming language like Java to C/C++ and back. I know many a good Java programmer who gets lost in C/C++ code especially when it comes to pointers. Their code is always buggy and crashed as they don't understand the finer points of C/C++. But all you do is to track the following page.

    https://bb.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/BlackBerry/jobs

    I have been following the page and you can see the direction of the company. You saw a lot of postings for C/C++ developers when they were moving to BB10 at the same time they were laying off programmers so you know that they were most likely Java programmers. Then you saw them lay off a lot of developers about a year ago and hiring iOS and Android programmers. That told you where they are headed. Just follow the layoffs and job postings at a company to see where management is heading.
    12-14-15 10:58 AM
  7. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Are you a programmer? No all programming languages can carry forward when changing from a programming language like Java to C/C++ and back. I know many a good Java programmer who gets lost in C/C++ code especially when it comes to pointers. Their code is always buggy and crashed as they don't understand the finer points of C/C++. But all you do is to track the following page.

    https://bb.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/BlackBerry/jobs

    I have been following the page and you can see the direction of the company. You saw a lot of postings for C/C++ developers when they were moving to BB10 at the same time they were laying off programmers so you know that they were most likely Java programmers. Then you saw them lay off a lot of developers about a year ago and hiring iOS and Android programmers. That told you where they are headed. Just follow the layoffs and job postings at a company to see where management is heading.
    I actually go back and forth between Java and C/C++ all the time. Actually you can throw a double handful of other languages in there as well. A good Java programmer who can't be a good C/C++ programmer because they can't learn how to use pointers correctly probably needs some intensive training.
    Joshu42 likes this.
    12-14-15 11:13 AM
  8. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I actually go back and forth between Java and C/C++ all the time. Actually you can throw a double handful of other languages in there as well. A good Java programmer who can't be a good C/C++ programmer because they can't learn how to use pointers correctly probably needs some intensive training.
    I agree. Sometimes companies don't have time to intensively train programmers so they lay them off and get people who are comfortable. I disagree with that, but it happens. But programmers who are "old school" and began with pointers can more easily move from language to language vs those who have no clue to what pointers are and how to work with them safely.
    12-14-15 11:17 AM
  9. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    So, did RIM fire all of their Java coders, only to hire an entirely new group to work with C/C++ since BB10 no longer supported Java?
    Yes pretty much. They would keep a sustaining team for the legacy OS and hire a new team for BB10. A small number would make the transition but not the majority and it would have little to do with technical ability.

    And did they again hire an entirely new group to once again work in Java when they decided to go Android on BlackBerry?
    Yes pretty much.

    They no doubt laid off programmers, but seriously, the core of their programmers are likely to be a group that worked on BBOS and BB10 as well.
    The workhorse core programmers won't be on the sustaining team.
    The system guys would be mostly gone the application guys not so much.
    You might keep a tiny number of system guys with golden handcuffs but most of them would be off to new challenges PDQ.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 12-14-15 at 11:45 AM.
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-14-15 11:26 AM
  10. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Are you a programmer? No all programming languages can carry forward when changing from a programming language like Java to C/C++ and back. I know many a good Java programmer who gets lost in C/C++ code especially when it comes to pointers. Their code is always buggy and crashed as they don't understand the finer points of C/C++. But all you do is to track the following page.

    https://bb.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/BlackBerry/jobs

    I have been following the page and you can see the direction of the company. You saw a lot of postings for C/C++ developers when they were moving to BB10 at the same time they were laying off programmers so you know that they were most likely Java programmers. Then you saw them lay off a lot of developers about a year ago and hiring iOS and Android programmers. That told you where they are headed. Just follow the layoffs and job postings at a company to see where management is heading.
    No, I am not a programmer. If you are going to use that information to discount my post keep these in mind:

    1. I am also not a physicist but I can grasp the basic principles of flight/aerodynamics. While I might not be able to help design a new type of wing I can surely follow along, more or less, in a conversation on such a topic. At the very least, I know where (for the most part) to look for information and when to do so as needed. That does not make me expert by any stretch of the imagination, and my postings here are opinions, yes, but my opinions are backed up by facts.

    2. My post was in part sarcasm (BlackBerry having to re/hire those originally let go), in part making the statement, and in part asking the question. Has not Michael Clewley been at RIM/BlackBerry for quite some time? Surely he is not the only one.

    As for hiring iOS and Android devs; if they are wanting to go cross platform with their apps then who better to bring on board?
    12-14-15 12:45 PM
  11. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I agree. Sometimes companies don't have time to intensively train programmers so they lay them off and get people who are comfortable. I disagree with that, but it happens. But programmers who are "old school" and began with pointers can more easily move from language to language vs those who have no clue to what pointers are and how to work with them safely.
    I see just as many "old school" programmers who can't handle new languages as visa versa. Simply evidence that programmers are a subset of humanity and not some offshoot endowed with super powers.

    This does lead to a national churn, but is scant evidence a company that is hiring and firing has let their core people go to the point that they only have mediocre devs who can't pick up a new code base and work with it. Just since the Priv was announced I've taken on more than a half dozen new projects using C/C++, Java, JavaScript, Perl (which has some wicked new features), Python, PHP, SQL and of course Unix shell. Being a programmer is like being a linguist. Only knowing a couple languages is ok when you are in school. If you aren't learning a new language each year and exploring a ne paradigm every few years you will quickly become unemployable. Or only employable for short term help. If you are waiting for your employer to decide what skills they need tomorrow, you are going to be too late.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2639
    12-14-15 04:09 PM
  12. kvndoom's Avatar
    Don't take it personally. I meant with the OP and the rest of the commentary.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport


    You had to be there...
    12-14-15 05:22 PM
  13. Vistaus's Avatar
    Please find the post that I said there wouldn't be a 10.3.3. I did say that 10.3.3 and possibly 10.3.4 will be nothing but bug fixes. There won't be any new features. There also won't be any new BB10 phones. So how do you continue development of a BB10 OS when there is no income at all because you are not selling any new phones.

    You can put your head in the sand all you want, but in the end, you will find that I am right.

    I challenge you the answer the following questions: Then we can see who is right in the future.

    There will be new BB10 phones. I say NO.
    There will be BB10 10.4. I say NO.
    There will be new/updated tools for developers to write native BB10 apps. I say NO.
    There will be new/updated APIs to provide more functionality for native BB10 apps. I say NO.
    BB10 will be updated to Qt5. (Qt4.8 is EOL). I say NO.
    Android Runtime will be updated. I say NO.
    BB10 will continue to function for the next 2-3 years. I say YES with some functionality removed (example BBM Meetings, possibly Maps and other BlackBerry supplied services.)

    Willing to take the challenge? Before you do, take some time to
    Well, there is more than bug fixes in latest 10.3.2 leak. Foursquare app has been updated with buttons that have a different look-and-feel. So who knows what 10.3.3 might bring. No major features but maybe some updated design stuff, like they did the Foursquare app in the current leak.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    12-15-15 12:54 AM
  14. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    Should os10 be killed, (and I doubt it will be any time soon) could a group of elite programmers be formed to keep it alive and eventually release os 11 and so on?

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-16-15 09:23 PM
  15. Vistaus's Avatar
    Should os10 be killed, (and I doubt it will be any time soon) could a group of elite programmers be formed to keep it alive and eventually release os 11 and so on?

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Not unless BlackBerry open sources BB10.

    Edit: but even then it wouldn't be of much use for the true BlackBerry phones as you wouldn't be able to flash your BlackBerry phone with something that's not signed by BlackBerry themselves.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    12-17-15 12:49 AM
  16. SeeBeeEss's Avatar
    Yes, its embarrassing as heck, but any of us who have bought a BB10 device in the past year have to admit that we have been "PlayBooked."
    chrisro likes this.
    12-17-15 06:20 AM
  17. Fernando Martin's Avatar
    Yes, its embarrassing as heck, but any of us who have bought a BB10 device in the past year have to admit that we have been "PlayBooked."
    I bought mine knowing that there would be limited support for the os. In fact, I chose the passport over the priv.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    12-17-15 06:59 AM
  18. SeeBeeEss's Avatar
    I bought mine knowing that there would be limited support for the os. In fact, I chose the passport over the priv.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Passport
    Me too, but I am a confirmed BBM (BlackBerry Masochist).
    12-17-15 07:27 AM
  19. ubizmo's Avatar
    Because 10.3 is used by a very large group of professionals
    How large?

    That's the problem, isn't it? If BB10 were really used by a very large group of anybody, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It would be profitable and BlackBerry wouldn't be making Android phones. The more accurate statement is, "10.3 is used by a very small group of professionals", and others. Yes, it's used in some government settings, but unless those governments are willing to subsidize the production of new BB10 devices, their "need" for BB10 isn't enough to make BB10 profitable. If it were, again, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    12-17-15 07:50 AM
  20. early2bed's Avatar
    There is some definite end to functionality at some point because every operating system has components that it licenses from other software companies, for example, audio and video encoding algorithms. That prevents the complete OS from being open-sourced and also means that the licenses will eventually expire unless renewed.
    ubizmo likes this.
    12-17-15 08:00 AM
  21. lfcohen's Avatar
    Actually we are a large corporate company with lots of BlackBerry products and have been featured in the success stories from BlackBerry. Our sales rep actually called us to push us towards the Priv. I said that we are not interested and I would be interested in BB10 devices. She said that they have the Priv now and they are moving to Android. So they are pushing corporations to a new OS. I am also involved with the BlackBerry Enterprise developers. I have been told that everything is moving to Android and there are lots of new things for Android, but don't expect anything new for BB10. So my position is coming from experience with BlackBerry. I love BB10 and want it to continue, but Chen has a different vision and BlackBerry is doing everything it can to move people away from BB10.
    This is a good and solid argument... and yes I also have been reading a lot of stuff from BlackBerry people regarding pushing whoever they can into Priv / Android. Not sure what is going to happen. Personally, I believe that they could keep moving with a dual OS strategy as Priv / Android sales will help them a lot to finance this. Remember, there is no need to develop Android, so they just need to fund QNX based BB10 and BlackBerry Apps and technologies into Android, besides, of course, all the main corporate systems and solutions they have.

    We will see......I am not moving to Android. My eco system is based on a dual phone strategy.. BB10 and iPhone. I don't have or suffer any "app gap"

    Best regards!

    Leo

    Posted via CB10
    12-17-15 09:12 AM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    BB10 is looking more and more like OS/2 did in the mid 1990s.

    - Near 0% consumer marketshare
    - Technically very strong
    - Long slow phase out in the corporate/government space where it was mission critical for some enterprises.

    Posted via CB10

    If you're happy now with BB10 and existing devices, and not dependent on Android apps, you should be good for at least a year, and maybe as many as 3-5 years.
    12-17-15 09:23 AM
  23. Kryngle's Avatar
    I am actually buying a Z30 today over The Priv. A friend is selling me one of the two he had bought from BlackBerry a few months back. BB10 over any other Smartphones out there.

    Posted via CB10
    12-17-15 09:29 AM
  24. sammyg423's Avatar
    Just reading this thread makes me sick. It may phase out. But i seriously don't want to hear about it.

    Coming from an android because i wanted a physical keyboard, I usually like when my operating system is well supported and in good shape, But looking at all those threads and answers makes me super sick and wanting to go back.

    So please, Have hope. Lets keep our hopes and end of story. Got a friend who works at blackberry? Tell Em to keep OS10 alive (even though it may not matter). End of rant.
    12-17-15 09:30 AM
  25. Enyigma's Avatar
    Chen has been pretty straight forward about the handset business. It is very low margin and the space in the other OSs is crowded. The PRIV is the last chance for BlackBerry to remain in the handset business.

    Chen already thinks there are now sufficient alternative secure handsets from other suppliers out there that he would not be reluctant to drop handsets altogether (and thus BB10) and finish the conversion to a software only business model. What kept the handset business going this long was the cash it would bring in. Market share is now so small that the cash infusion is no longer worthwhile unless the PRIV can make a significant dent in the high-end category.

    Blackberry is releasing its third quarter results tomorrow (Friday December 18th, 2015) along with PRIV sales figures. Chen has already stated that if the PRIV is not the success he needs, then he will be exiting the handset business altogether. We should know the future of this category and probably BB10 OS tomorrow morning.

    I don't blame Chen for the tough decisions he has to make. He wants Blackberry to succeed and has the credentials and track record to do so. He can't do this by hanging on to money-losing divisions. Blackberry is but a shadow of its former self and must find its niche in order to remain viable. Chen has identified the software side as the solution but revenues, though positive, have been relatively modest and slow to grow. Perhaps Blackberry will become great again but the odds are really stacked against that outcome.
    Last edited by Enyigma; 12-17-15 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Typos
    12-17-15 09:32 AM
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