11-30-16 03:32 PM
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  1. thurask's Avatar
    True, but I consider it a learning experience from which the smarter ones will learn.

    I'm sure they'll read warnings carefully in the future, especially in scenarios more important than smartphones OS's where ignoring the warnings often carries heavier consequences!
    StephanieMaks and JeepBB like this.
    11-04-16 05:09 PM
  2. JeepBB's Avatar
    I'm an optimist.

    No, I really am!
    11-04-16 05:51 PM
  3. rsrocha's Avatar
    I wonder what they have cooked with NFC...

    Posted via CB10
    11-04-16 07:02 PM
  4. markmall's Avatar
    I'm not expecting anything new. I'm just fascinated that a (once) major tech company can make a public statement it is going to do something relatively minor, repeat the public statement over again to influence consumers and then pretend like it never said it or at least acknowledge it has badly violated its statement.

    It's just really curious. Also, it informs those of us still using BB10 what to expect.

    Posted via CB10
    sir mictol likes this.
    11-05-16 01:37 AM
  5. conite's Avatar
    It's just really curious. Also, it informs those of us still using BB10 what to expect.

    Posted via CB10
    I find this whole thing baffling too.

    Either they monumentally underestimated the resources required to complete this project (and are embarrassed to say as much), monumentally underestimated the time for the 3rd party to certify, or something spectacular happened behind the scenes - the likes of which I could never guess.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    11-05-16 01:54 AM
  6. JeepBB's Avatar
    I find this whole thing baffling too.

    Either they monumentally underestimated the resources required to complete this project (and are embarrassed to say as much), monumentally underestimated the time for the 3rd party to certify, or something spectacular happened behind the scenes - the likes of which I could never guess.
    Meh, it's not too hard to work out IMHO.

    They have very few developers left, and in any sane scenario all of them will surely be working on Android. Meanwhile, anyone who had a deep technical understanding of BB10 is unlikely to have survived the successive culls of the last few years (or is working on Android), so I reckon they simply don't have people with the necessary skills available to release even an un-NIAP'ed 10.3.3.

    I'm convinced the NIAP evaluation has effectively stopped. It can remain as "pending" forevaaaaar under the rules and BB will incur little cost by simply not engaging with the process any further. At some future point, I believe BB10 will be quietly withdrawn from certification.

    Add to that resourcing/knowledge deficit the likely financial reward (absolutely zilch!) that will come from releasing 10.3.3 to the few who remain on BB10 compared with the money they'd have to spend creating it... and you arrive at the present reality.

    Like I say, it's not hard to work out.
    StephanieMaks and melander like this.
    11-05-16 07:04 AM
  7. StephanieMaks's Avatar
    Meh, it's not too hard to work out IMHO.

    They have very few developers left, and in any sane scenario all of them will surely be working on Android. Meanwhile, anyone who had a deep technical understanding of BB10 is unlikely to have survived the successive culls of the last few years (or is working on Android), so I reckon they simply don't have people with the necessary skills available to release even an un-NIAP'ed 10.3.3.

    I'm convinced the NIAP evaluation has effectively stopped. It can remain as "pending" forevaaaaar under the rules and BB will incur little cost by simply not engaging with the process any further. At some future point, I believe BB10 will be quietly withdrawn from certification.

    Add to that resourcing/knowledge deficit the likely financial reward (absolutely zilch!) that will come from releasing 10.3.3 to the few who remain on BB10 compared with the money they'd have to spend creating it... and you arrive at the present reality.

    Like I say, it's not hard to work out.
    I agree with all of this, but then every now and then a new build appears on the "latest spotted" thread, which makes me wonder.

    I know I've joked in the past that the new builds are the result of a cron job and a shell script but I don't seriously believe that to be the case.

    So, someone is at least compiling new builds of OS 10.3.3 every now and then, yes?
    melander likes this.
    11-05-16 07:40 AM
  8. conite's Avatar

    So, someone is at least compiling new builds of OS 10.3.3 every now and then, yes?
    This is absolutely true. Judging by build numbers, development seems to be moving along fairly well. Which brings me back to my prior post.
    11-05-16 08:15 AM
  9. JohnKCG's Avatar
    Lets wait quietly, the changelogs have been already posted so, if 10.3.3 brings something extra Lets Just wait, be negative about waiting extras, it wil Hurt less in case (most probably), by the way, My bb10 devices do what I need so its not really that problematic to have an update, when the Android apps that I use need Android 4.4 runtime i Will change My phones, but until then Lets rock our devices in peace

    Posted via CB10
    Vistaus likes this.
    11-05-16 09:57 AM
  10. StephanieMaks's Avatar
    This is absolutely true. Judging by build numbers, development seems to be moving along fairly well. Which brings me back to my prior post.
    So, at this point trying to make sense of all the bits and pieces that we know, trying to speculate what exactly is going on at BlackBerry and 10.3.3... this is my speculation.

    When Chen gave the initial 'deadline' of March 2016, he vastly under-estimated how long some minor bugfixes and security improvements would take, because the BBOS10 team by that point had already been reduced to a skeleton crew.

    Based on the Dev beta which was released at IIRC end-of-May, there is no hope in hell that 10.3.3 could have been ready for public release in March. They didn't have a complete OS for the start of June, so end of March was a complete pipe-dream.

    The explanation that was given for the delay was that they were 'Waiting for NIAP'. I believe this to be inaccurate. iOS 9 was released in the fall of 2015 and received its NIAP certification later on. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the NIAP certification process that says an OS has to be certified before it is released. So, 'waiting for NIAP' was a saving-face excuse which plays better than "Turns out you can't easily execute an OS upgrade after you fire all the guys who know how to do it. My bad."

    Since then, we've missed the June deadline, missed the July/August deadline, had no further deadlines given, and had the same (almost word-for-word) assurance that the OS is in the 'final stages of NIAP' certification.

    I agree with JeepBB's evaluation, that the NIAP process is stalled. Or if not stalled then at least progressing very, very slowly. There can't be that many people left at BlackBerry who are intimately familiar with all aspects of OS10.

    So, why are they compiling new builds of the OS while it's 'in the final stages of NIAP'?

    Assuming it's not just a cron job + shell script increasing the build number every so often to keep us Crackberrians excited, someone is still working on the OS. Yet, we aren't expecting much in the way of major changes and improvements. So what are they doing that needs repeated builds?

    My guess then, is whomever is left working on OS10, is that far in over their heads that they're still unable to get it all working right. They've still got show-stopper bugs that they cannot ship, but they have not been able to resolve. At least they are still trying.

    The clock will wind down though; at some point Chen or the board will determine that there aren't enough users to warrant spending any more money on the process.

    Sorry for the long-winded post.

    tl;dr - BlackBerry haven't given up on 10.3.3 but they no longer have the staff to get it done.
    JeepBB and melander like this.
    11-05-16 11:00 AM
  11. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    tl;dr - BlackBerry haven't given up on 10.3.3 but they no longer have the staff to get it done.
    Chen has been known to say I and we assume he should actually be saying we.
    11-05-16 11:14 AM
  12. babugaru1's Avatar
    So, at this point trying to make sense of all the bits and pieces that we know, trying to speculate what exactly is going on at BlackBerry and 10.3.3... this is my speculation.

    When Chen gave the initial 'deadline' of March 2016, he vastly under-estimated how long some minor bugfixes and security improvements would take, because the BBOS10 team by that point had already been reduced to a skeleton crew.

    Based on the Dev beta which was released at IIRC end-of-May, there is no hope in hell that 10.3.3 could have been ready for public release in March. They didn't have a complete OS for the start of June, so end of March was a complete pipe-dream.

    The explanation that was given for the delay was that they were 'Waiting for NIAP'. I believe this to be inaccurate. iOS 9 was released in the fall of 2015 and received its NIAP certification later on. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the NIAP certification process that says an OS has to be certified before it is released. So, 'waiting for NIAP' was a saving-face excuse which plays better than "Turns out you can't easily execute an OS upgrade after you fire all the guys who know how to do it. My bad."

    Since then, we've missed the June deadline, missed the July/August deadline, had no further deadlines given, and had the same (almost word-for-word) assurance that the OS is in the 'final stages of NIAP' certification.

    I agree with JeepBB's evaluation, that the NIAP process is stalled. Or if not stalled then at least progressing very, very slowly. There can't be that many people left at BlackBerry who are intimately familiar with all aspects of OS10.

    So, why are they compiling new builds of the OS while it's 'in the final stages of NIAP'?

    Assuming it's not just a cron job + shell script increasing the build number every so often to keep us Crackberrians excited, someone is still working on the OS. Yet, we aren't expecting much in the way of major changes and improvements. So what are they doing that needs repeated builds?

    My guess then, is whomever is left working on OS10, is that far in over their heads that they're still unable to get it all working right. They've still got show-stopper bugs that they cannot ship, but they have not been able to resolve. At least they are still trying.

    The clock will wind down though; at some point Chen or the board will determine that there aren't enough users to warrant spending any more money on the process.

    Sorry for the long-winded post.

    tl;dr - BlackBerry haven't given up on 10.3.3 but they no longer have the staff to get it done.
    Good explanation, then we can except few features out of 10.3.3, this can not be only security patch, much more than thay
    11-05-16 11:28 AM
  13. thurask's Avatar
    Good explanation, then we can except few features out of 10.3.3, this can not be only security patch, much more than thay
    If you're an optimist.
    11-05-16 11:33 AM
  14. JeepBB's Avatar
    So, 'waiting for NIAP' was a saving-face excuse which plays better than "Turns out you can't easily execute an OS upgrade after you fire all the guys who know how to do it. My bad."
    ^^^ This made me laugh. Hard!

    Assuming it's not just a cron job + shell script increasing the build number every so often to keep us Crackberrians excited, someone is still working on the OS. Yet, we aren't expecting much in the way of major changes and improvements. So what are they doing that needs repeated builds?

    My guess then, is whomever is left working on OS10, is that far in over their heads that they're still unable to get it all working right. They've still got show-stopper bugs that they cannot ship, but they have not been able to resolve. At least they are still trying.
    Have you ever seen an NFL game... with 17 seconds to go in the 4th quarter... and the offence is deep in their own territory and a ton of points behind?

    The game is still on, and they're pros being paid to do a job... so they set-up in their stance and snap the ball... but it's all a bit half-hearted, and everybody realises that they are just going through the motions until the clock runs down.

    The couple of guys in BB who aren't on Android and whose job it is to fix bugs in BB10 are those NFL pros.

    I agree with you that they are probably in way over their heads, and that they have much more to do than can possibly be done with limited resources/skills... but they're pros too ... and they'll keep doing their jobs until the clock runs out and Chen blows the whistle.

    And that's why the build number is increasing.
    StephanieMaks and melander like this.
    11-05-16 11:52 AM
  15. Halifax Guy's Avatar
    Meh, it's not too hard to work out IMHO.

    They have very few developers left, and in any sane scenario all of them will surely be working on Android. Meanwhile, anyone who had a deep technical understanding of BB10 is unlikely to have survived the successive culls of the last few years (or is working on Android), so I reckon they simply don't have people with the necessary skills available to release even an un-NIAP'ed 10.3.3.

    I'm convinced the NIAP evaluation has effectively stopped. It can remain as "pending" forevaaaaar under the rules and BB will incur little cost by simply not engaging with the process any further. At some future point, I believe BB10 will be quietly withdrawn from certification.

    Add to that resourcing/knowledge deficit the likely financial reward (absolutely zilch!) that will come from releasing 10.3.3 to the few who remain on BB10 compared with the money they'd have to spend creating it... and you arrive at the present reality.

    Like I say, it's not hard to work out.
    In all actuality all you are doing is speculating, not working anything out.

    Posted using a Q10, 10.3.2.2474.
    11-05-16 02:45 PM
  16. JeepBB's Avatar
    In all actuality all you are doing is speculating, not working anything out.
    True, I'm speculating. It's a discussion forum, it's what people do.

    If my speculation for the reasons behind the months of 10.3.3 delay involved the evil influence of lizard people Google and a global conspiracy to do BB down, that would be unbelievable - though, sadly, I've read posts exactly like that here on CB in the past - but I didn't post that.

    Instead, I've based my speculation on my knowledge of the evaluation process, what has occurred, and what BB have said. What I've posted being speculation doesn't necessarily invalidate it and what I've posted might in fact be completely true. I would argue that it's certainly believable.

    Or do you have an alternative explanation?

    Speculate away... like I said, it's a discussion forum.
    11-05-16 03:34 PM
  17. babugaru's Avatar
    It will come
    11-05-16 03:42 PM
  18. Vistaus's Avatar
    So, at this point trying to make sense of all the bits and pieces that we know, trying to speculate what exactly is going on at BlackBerry and 10.3.3... this is my speculation.

    When Chen gave the initial 'deadline' of March 2016, he vastly under-estimated how long some minor bugfixes and security improvements would take, because the BBOS10 team by that point had already been reduced to a skeleton crew.

    Based on the Dev beta which was released at IIRC end-of-May, there is no hope in hell that 10.3.3 could have been ready for public release in March. They didn't have a complete OS for the start of June, so end of March was a complete pipe-dream.

    The explanation that was given for the delay was that they were 'Waiting for NIAP'. I believe this to be inaccurate. iOS 9 was released in the fall of 2015 and received its NIAP certification later on. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the NIAP certification process that says an OS has to be certified before it is released. So, 'waiting for NIAP' was a saving-face excuse which plays better than "Turns out you can't easily execute an OS upgrade after you fire all the guys who know how to do it. My bad."

    Since then, we've missed the June deadline, missed the July/August deadline, had no further deadlines given, and had the same (almost word-for-word) assurance that the OS is in the 'final stages of NIAP' certification.

    I agree with JeepBB's evaluation, that the NIAP process is stalled. Or if not stalled then at least progressing very, very slowly. There can't be that many people left at BlackBerry who are intimately familiar with all aspects of OS10.

    So, why are they compiling new builds of the OS while it's 'in the final stages of NIAP'?

    Assuming it's not just a cron job + shell script increasing the build number every so often to keep us Crackberrians excited, someone is still working on the OS. Yet, we aren't expecting much in the way of major changes and improvements. So what are they doing that needs repeated builds?

    My guess then, is whomever is left working on OS10, is that far in over their heads that they're still unable to get it all working right. They've still got show-stopper bugs that they cannot ship, but they have not been able to resolve. At least they are still trying.

    The clock will wind down though; at some point Chen or the board will determine that there aren't enough users to warrant spending any more money on the process.

    Sorry for the long-winded post.

    tl;dr - BlackBerry haven't given up on 10.3.3 but they no longer have the staff to get it done.
    It's not only NIAP certification that's stalled, it's also CSE certification. CSE certifies both their own CSE as well as NIAP.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red) <3
    11-05-16 04:54 PM
  19. linuslim's Avatar
    I won't expect a lot coming from this os update. I enjoy while at current OS for now.

    If is a major OS update, they would have release it to up the game. Obviously BlackBerry don't want to chase existing users away and buy time to make a solid android phones by 2017.

    They are focusing on enterprise software and no longer doing BB10. I doubt there are any developers left to support BB10 OS.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-16 05:01 PM
  20. rsrocha's Avatar
    I said it once and I will say again.

    BES 12.4 documentation clearly states it is NIAP certified along with bb10 10.3.3 and beyond.

    For the corporate users with bb10 behind mdm with BES 12.4 I believe they already have 10.3.3. It must be an mdm policy that allows the device to download the new os from BlackBerry servers.

    As we are regular consumer public, maybe this new update isn't a regular or general public release because as we know they stated that 10.3.3 would be focused in NIAP certification which is, obviously, something you only use when tied to some mdm internal management.

    Just my 0.02 cents.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-16 06:44 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    For the corporate users with bb10 behind mdm with BES 12.4 I believe they already have 10.3.3. It must be an mdm policy that allows the device to download the new os from BlackBerry servers.

    Posted via CB10
    They do not.
    11-05-16 06:49 PM
  22. rsrocha's Avatar
    They do not.
    So why is it clearly stated in the documentation?

    Anyway, I sent a twit to Chen and BlackBerry help to see if there is any reply. If all of you do the same they will see that there is still users that care about bb10 and they need to reply to us.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-16 06:56 PM
  23. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    This is absolutely true. Judging by build numbers, development seems to be moving along fairly well. Which brings me back to my prior post.
    Well if I'm not mistaken this is the first time any version of BB10 has gone through NIAP certification. I couldn't find QNX on the accredited products listed -- not surprising given their marketing model -- so they didn't even have that leg up. Mix in the fact that the evaluating agency also has the mandate to secure networks that are heavily invested in in BlackBerry end to end solutions and no one should be surprised if they are being careful in their as work.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    11-05-16 06:57 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    So why is it clearly stated in the documentation?

    Anyway, I sent a twit to Chen and BlackBerry help to see if there is any reply. If all of you do the same they will see that there is still users that care about bb10 and they need to reply to us.

    Posted via CB10
    The documentation has just got a bit ahead of reality.

    DTEK60 / Z30
    11-05-16 07:02 PM
  25. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    So, at this point trying to make sense of all the bits and pieces that we know, trying to speculate what exactly is going on at BlackBerry and 10.3.3... this is my speculation.

    When Chen gave the initial 'deadline' of March 2016, he vastly under-estimated how long some minor bugfixes and security improvements would take, because the BBOS10 team by that point had already been reduced to a skeleton crew.

    Based on the Dev beta which was released at IIRC end-of-May, there is no hope in hell that 10.3.3 could have been ready for public release in March. They didn't have a complete OS for the start of June, so end of March was a complete pipe-dream.

    The explanation that was given for the delay was that they were 'Waiting for NIAP'. I believe this to be inaccurate. iOS 9 was released in the fall of 2015 and received its NIAP certification later on. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the NIAP certification process that says an OS has to be certified before it is released. So, 'waiting for NIAP' was a saving-face excuse which plays better than "Turns out you can't easily execute an OS upgrade after you fire all the guys who know how to do it. My bad."

    Since then, we've missed the June deadline, missed the July/August deadline, had no further deadlines given, and had the same (almost word-for-word) assurance that the OS is in the 'final stages of NIAP' certification.

    I agree with JeepBB's evaluation, that the NIAP process is stalled. Or if not stalled then at least progressing very, very slowly. There can't be that many people left at BlackBerry who are intimately familiar with all aspects of OS10.

    So, why are they compiling new builds of the OS while it's 'in the final stages of NIAP'?

    Assuming it's not just a cron job + shell script increasing the build number every so often to keep us Crackberrians excited, someone is still working on the OS. Yet, we aren't expecting much in the way of major changes and improvements. So what are they doing that needs repeated builds?

    My guess then, is whomever is left working on OS10, is that far in over their heads that they're still unable to get it all working right. They've still got show-stopper bugs that they cannot ship, but they have not been able to resolve. At least they are still trying.

    The clock will wind down though; at some point Chen or the board will determine that there aren't enough users to warrant spending any more money on the process.

    Sorry for the long-winded post.

    tl;dr - BlackBerry haven't given up on 10.3.3 but they no longer have the staff to get it done.
    Well there are "average user" bug reports that have been reported, evaluated, fixed and the reporters told the fix will be in the next release. If I know of a few, there must be more, which would account for some of the builds. This is a speculation thread, so speculation is the order of the day, but in my experience when you speculate in the absence of data you only succeed is confusing your self. If you are enjoying the exercise of speculation then please do carry on, but don't expect that the speculation will make any kind of sense when (if?) the facts finally come out.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    11-05-16 07:07 PM
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