[EFats]

...
A fully-functioning native browser is a big missing piece though - even with this minimalist view.

I still don't get this one. The browser is as standards compliant as ever (and it covers nearly all that any normal web page would/should do), the HTML5 spec has not changed.

Virtually every site I browse works fine with the BB10 browser. Like I've mentioned before elsewhere, anytime I think the browser can't hack it, I fall back to Firefox or whip out my 'droid or Windows phone or... only to find out the site doesn't work on any mobile browser.
There might be one or two sites that I recall not working with just BB10, but they were 'one-off' sites I got directed to, none of the major sites.

Maybe my corner of the web is different...?



Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[conite]

I still don't get this one. The browser is as standards compliant as ever (and it covers nearly all that any normal web page would/should do), the HTML5 spec has not changed.

Virtually every site I browse works fine with the BB10 browser. Like I've mentioned before elsewhere, anytime I think the browser can't hack it, I fall back to Firefox or whip out my 'droid or Windows phone or... only to find out the site doesn't work on any mobile browser.
There might be one or two sites that I recall not working with just BB10, but they were 'one-off' sites I got directed to, none of the major sites.

Maybe my corner of the web is different...?



Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

I don't know what you do on the Web, but I still pick up my Z30 every day, and the browser makes me want to throw it against the wall.

Many sites won't render properly, or force me to fiddle with desktop mode, or don't have valid certificates, or take absolutely forever to load, or don't load at all etc, etc, etc.

[Gene Fells]

Why can't they figure any of this out on Android?

Posted via CB10

Agreed 100%. I am setting a new android phone from scratch and even with paid apps (offering full features) the experience is underwhelming at best.

Calender functionality in android is poor compared with BB10 and windows phone. The best 3rd party calender in WP was Chronos and I cannot understand why no developer in the android ecosystem will not use a similar design.

Something as simple as the BB10 clock - I cannot find anything in android that gets close to this in appearance.

Phone / contacts. Android offerings are mostly poorly designed or full of pretty circles with stupid swipe gestures. Once again, the plain old dark mode WP offering is superior in every way.

How this OS became the dominating market leader is astounding. It's fast and there are apps, but the interface and core offerings are a jumbled mess. Hamburger menus at the top of a 6.4 inch 18:5.9 aspect screen was obviously designed by the Area 51 "Grey" design team for their own use.

Posted via CB10

[bb10adopter111]

How this OS became the dominating market leader is astounding. It's fast and there are apps, but the interface and core offerings are a jumbled mess.

Quite simply, Google gave it away to avoid losing their Internet franchise to Apple, and consumer electronics OEMs were desperate to compete with Apple as well. It was a marriage of convenience and creating a usable professional platform was never important to anyone. The "solution" was that somehow developers would save the day, but it's just led to the "jumbled mess" you describe.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[ppeters914]

I don't know what you do on the Web, but I still pick up my Z30 every day, and the browser makes me want to throw it against the wall.

Many sites won't render properly, or force me to fiddle with desktop mode, or don't have valid certificates, or take absolutely forever to load, or don't load at all etc, etc, etc.

This is what finally drove me to Android this past weekend. Even when it worked, it was gawd awful slow, which shouldn't be surprising on a device released in 2013.

It's actually a testament to BB10 that my Z10 was functional for so long.

[ppeters914]

Agreed 100%. I am setting a new android phone from scratch and even with paid apps (offering full features) the experience is underwhelming at best.

Calender functionality in android is poor compared with BB10 and windows phone. The best 3rd party calender in WP was Chronos and I cannot understand why no developer in the android ecosystem will not use a similar design.

Something as simple as the BB10 clock - I cannot find anything in android that gets close to this in appearance.

Phone / contacts. Android offerings are mostly poorly designed or full of pretty circles with stupid swipe gestures. Once again, the plain old dark mode WP offering is superior in every way.

How this OS became the dominating market leader is astounding. It's fast and there are apps, but the interface and core offerings are a jumbled mess. Hamburger menus at the top of a 6.4 inch 18:5.9 aspect screen was obviously designed by the Area 51 "Grey" design team for their own use.

Posted via CB10

Yup. Moved to Android this past weekend, and finding the same thing. Loading the BB Hub and keyboard has made it tolerable whilst I figure out which launcher (currently using Microsoft Launcher) and other apps meet my needs.

Goodbye Porsche Design Clock..... sniff...

[markus2107]

And I agree with you 100%. But the core functions of the device, which are extremely professional and streamlined for business - continue to outperform even the newest iPhone and Android devices from a workflow perspective. This is simply amazing for a 5 year old device with an EOL app ecosystem.

For me...as a backup device, all I really need in addition to those core functions is a usable browser (check), maps (check), weather app (check), and music player with FLAC (check - Jetaudio plus via Amazon app store). For maps and weather the original BB10 stock apps still work.

Well the "workflow" (don't know how much work besides writing mails, calls, note taking and calendar entries you can do on a phone, but ok...) is really not that great if your work relies on apps you can't use on OS 10. Switching between devices is IMHO really annoying.

And as you said, maps and weather still work at the moment. I really hope it stays this way at least until the end of the upcoming year, but who knows. (Even though I don't really favor these apps)

[markus2107]

I don't know what you do on the Web, but I still pick up my Z30 every day, and the browser makes me want to throw it against the wall.

Many sites won't render properly, or force me to fiddle with desktop mode, or don't have valid certificates, or take absolutely forever to load, or don't load at all etc, etc, etc.

I guess, if you use your BB to look up some information it's just fine. I know there are some crazy websites out there that are really uncomfortable to use, but IMHO these sites are just not meant to browse on (4–5 year old) mobile devices.

(Or sometimes are only made to browse on high end computers, as I remember my old macbook wasn't able to perform well on some sites as well. Why do they blow up simple sites with crap and ads so no one can use it?)

[Leyra B10]

I guess, if you use your BB to look up some information it's just fine. I know there are some crazy websites out there that are really uncomfortable to use, but IMHO these sites are just not meant to browse on (4–5 year old) mobile devices.

(Or sometimes are only made to browse on high end computers, as I remember my old macbook wasn't able to perform well on some sites as well. Why do they blow up simple sites with crap and ads so no one can use it?)

Exactly good question. Further abstraction from built in hardware method for new exiting hardware method but you will need more cores and ram. Really though thats likely not reason most often (yea it is)but While the web compounds its new features their supporting advertisers who may be embeded do also.

Number of http requests on one page can sometimes go pretty far and if it has to look still while it goes that far it gets slower and slower. I think small SVG's that you can repeat across x and y axis and with support for alpha channel embedded as base64 css --backgrounds are a fast and great way to stay in shape.

Another prob could be transition to web manifests where nothing the browser you are using knows to look for.
Have a look at this if you're still with me,
https://emojityper.com
A small agent sniffer could be included to help there, or a middle method to fetch from a centralized store and the device filters and renders what it needs based on readability standards for impaired access.

You are not going to get 3d games or 4k video but a stream lined content delivery process can be easy, though to be fair you need to know what to look for. Ive met some who wont just because of stubborness or comfortability.
Posted via CB10

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

I don't know what you do on the Web, but I still pick up my Z30 every day, and the browser makes me want to throw it against the wall.

Many sites won't render properly, or force me to fiddle with desktop mode, or don't have valid certificates, or take absolutely forever to load, or don't load at all etc, etc, etc.

Maybe the z30, haven't used in a while.....but Passport and Leap seem still to perform decently. (can't recall any rendering issues) What's slow on them, turns up to be just as brutally slow on a full sized desktop that's not terribly old. However they (the browsers on the desktop) probably have their share of barnacle slowing attachments to the browsers brought to you by the advertisers agents (oh and maybe (very suspiciously) Google.) a.k.a. surveillance capitalism. Oh the days of the simple unfettered Netscape Navigator browser.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

So on the browser server side, what are the odds one could maliciously program one of those advertising agents to gum the whole thing (page rendering) up for bb10 devices by reading the user-agent (even ip address) and lobbing the responses v...e.....r.........y..............s.......l.....o .....w.....l....y..... just for (targeted) bb10 user-agents? Probably highly illegal if caught, and or a lawsuit in the making by a class of users (akin to Apple slowing down devices and getting fined by Italy). Maybe someone could make a tidy sum if they wanted to experiment with a variety of hardware, and or geographies and partner up with a lawyer friend (or fellow student)....or as a course project.

[jamescarruthers]

So on the browser server side, what are the odds one could maliciously program one of those advertising agents to gum the whole thing (page rendering) up for bb10 devices by reading the user-agent (even ip address) and lobbing the responses v...e.....r.........y..............s.......l.....o .....w.....l....y..... just for (targeted) bb10 user-agents? Probably highly illegal if caught, and or a lawsuit in the making by a class of users (akin to Apple slowing down devices and getting fined by Italy). Maybe someone could make a tidy sum if they wanted to experiment with a variety of hardware, and or geographies and partner up with a lawyer friend (or fellow student)....or as a course project.

A PhD in Pointlessness?

Posted via CB10

[ppeters914]

Maybe the z30, haven't used in a while.....but Passport and Leap seem still to perform decently. (can't recall any rendering issues) What's slow on them, turns up to be just as brutally slow on a full sized desktop that's not terribly old. However they (the browsers on the desktop) probably have their share of barnacle slowing attachments to the browsers brought to you by the advertisers agents (oh and maybe (very suspiciously) Google.) a.k.a. surveillance capitalism. Oh the days of the simple unfettered Netscape Navigator browser.

That's not my experience. What's slow on my Z10 (which includes many non-ad sites) is NOT slow on my 10 year old hardware Windows 10 desktop.

DOS was simple and unfettered, too, but go back to Netscrape? Seriously?

[byex]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.........
Most know how that story ended.

Posted via CB10

[bb10adopter111]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.........
Most know how that story ended.

Posted via CB10

In the long run...we're all dead.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[z10Jobe]

In the long run...we're all dead.

Posted with my trusty Z10

At which time they will have to pry this Q10 from my cold hands.

Posted via CB10

[anon(10268214)]

Well the "workflow" (don't know how much work besides writing mails, calls, note taking and calendar entries you can do on a phone, but ok...) is really not that great if your work relies on apps you can't use on OS 10. Switching between devices is IMHO really annoying.

And as you said, maps and weather still work at the moment. I really hope it stays this way at least until the end of the upcoming year, but who knows. (Even though I don't really favor these apps)

Interesting, I'm still on my Q10 as a backup and I have to say, I really don't understand why people are so obsessed about getting Google Playstore (Cobalt's version) working on BB10 in order to find "working apps". For example, today I just installed Google Maps on my Q10. All I did was search for a Kitkat compatible version with a maximum API of 18. Downloaded the apk and installed in 5min. Problem solved. Did the same for Firefox and a VOIP app. I think Google maps and Firefox are from 2017. Whoopity do, they still work fine. Lol. Yeah they chug a bit, the phone is 5 years old after all - but it damn well works and I'm sure it will for a while yet.

BlackBerry maps is showing her age, for sure. But that sultry voice of hers, Lol.

Posted via CB10

[bb10adopter111]

Well the "workflow" (don't know how much work besides writing mails, calls, note taking and calendar entries you can do on a phone, but ok...) is really not that great if your work relies on apps you can't use on OS 10. Switching between devices is IMHO really annoying.

And as you said, maps and weather still work at the moment. I really hope it stays this way at least until the end of the upcoming year, but who knows. (Even though I don't really favor these apps)

As a senior executive, 90% of my mobile work does indeed consist of phone, email, calendar, notes and a smattering of SMS. My job is to communicate with and support prospects, clients, vendors and employees. I do a lot of heavy-duty PC-based work that can't be done on any mobile platform, so my phone is just for professional communications.

In the B2B world, email is still the channel where deals get negotiated and work gets done. I have never found it worth the effort to use mobile versions of desktop apps. They are clunky, gimped and generally a waste of time IMO.

If you want third party mobile apps, it may be time to say goodbye to BB10, but my whole point is that, if you don't use ANY such apps, BB10 is a glorious, high performance platform for the stuff it was really engineered for, even after almost 6 years on original hardware.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Leyra B10]

So on the browser server side, what are the odds one could maliciously program one of those advertising agents to gum the whole thing (page rendering) up for bb10 devices by reading the user-agent (even ip address) and lobbing the responses v...e.....r.........y..............s.......l.....o .....w.....l....y..... just for (targeted) bb10 user-agents? Probably highly illegal if caught, and or a lawsuit in the making by a class of users (akin to Apple slowing down devices and getting fined by Italy). Maybe someone could make a tidy sum if they wanted to experiment with a variety of hardware, and or geographies and partner up with a lawyer friend (or fellow student)....or as a course project.

I don't know about malicious but if you wanted to read an article or watch a damn video you can make it happen.

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

So on the browser server side, what are the odds one could maliciously program one of those advertising agents to gum the whole thing (page rendering) up for bb10 devices by reading the user-agent (even ip address) and lobbing the responses v...e.....r.........y..............s.......l.....o .....w.....l....y..... just for (targeted) bb10 user-agents? Probably highly illegal if caught, and or a lawsuit in the making by a class of users (akin to Apple slowing down devices and getting fined by Italy). Maybe someone could make a tidy sum if they wanted to experiment with a variety of hardware, and or geographies and partner up with a lawyer friend (or fellow student)....or as a course project.

This isn’t a thing that is happening, and even if it were, it would not be grounds for legal action. It seems a little desperate to go down that rabbit hole so often.

[thurask]

So on the browser server side, what are the odds one could maliciously program one of those advertising agents to gum the whole thing (page rendering) up for bb10 devices by reading the user-agent (even ip address) and lobbing the responses v...e.....r.........y..............s.......l.....o .....w.....l....y..... just for (targeted) bb10 user-agents? Probably highly illegal if caught, and or a lawsuit in the making by a class of users (akin to Apple slowing down devices and getting fined by Italy). Maybe someone could make a tidy sum if they wanted to experiment with a variety of hardware, and or geographies and partner up with a lawyer friend (or fellow student)....or as a course project.

I'm pretty sure designing a website for 2018 instead of 2013 is both perfectly legal and kryptonite for the BB10 browser.

[bb10adopter111]

I'm pretty sure designing a website for 2018 instead of 2013 is both perfectly legal and kryptonite for the BB10 browser.

That's true, but it's also true that many websites are a mess of third-party plug-ins and scripts that require a lot more horsepower than they reasonably should to use. Just because any idiot can create a WordPress site and install themes and plug-ins doesn't mean they should.

Many of the rendering issues with older browsers are simply due to laziness on the part of developers who don't default to a reasonable standard when a certain browser isn't detected. It wouldn't be any more work to do it right, but they don't have the knowledge and/or interest to do it.

I have no problem ignoring sites that don't render on a standard HTML-compliant browser for mobile. If I care about the site, I'll visit it on a PC.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[twiggyrj]

That's true, but it's also true that many websites are a mess of third-party plug-ins and scripts that require a lot more horsepower than they reasonably should to use. Just because any idiot can create a WordPress site and install themes and plug-ins doesn't mean they should.

Many of the rendering issues with older browsers are simply due to laziness on the part of developers who don't default to a reasonable standard when a certain browser isn't detected. It wouldn't be any more work to do it right, but they don't have the knowledge and/or interest to do it.

I have no problem ignoring sites that don't render on a standard HTML-compliant browser for mobile. If I care about the site, I'll visit it on a PC.

Posted with my trusty Z10

That’s not really true though. Many standard WP third party plugins render HTML. Standards maybe standards but different browser vendors have different interpretations of those standards. Most web developers have a base such as IE11 compatibility and work up from there and test of the most common browsers. Things may not work so well on BB10 simply because the usage of that browser is so small and those rendering edge cases were simply not found and fixed.

[rthonpm]

I think Google maps and Firefox are from 2017. Whoopity do, they still work fine. Lol.

Posted via CB10

Except for the year plus security fixes you're missing, especially for Firefox...

Posted via CB10

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

I'm pretty sure designing a website for 2018 instead of 2013 is both perfectly legal and kryptonite for the BB10 browser.

Good to see you are casting BB10 as Superman and 2018 possibly "novelty features" as kryptonite, a not so good thing. Though that wasn't exactly my point in this posting, but it was elsewhere (as to why Linkedin signs you in even now, and leaves you signed in, but doesn't allow you access...was wondering what novelty was being used). My point here was deliberate timer or router throttling, like putting you in the longest and slowest queue on the interstate tollway. That and the barnacle "cookies and data" hooks on your webbrowser's hull, every website you have ever visited might be beeping data back to the home planet (at various speeds and blobs) without your permission or without visiting their sites.