[Leyra B10]

One of the big problems with the BB community is that there are hardly any two people who can agree on what features are important. BB has spent years catering to a bunch of different demographics (and still not fully pleasing a lot of people). This problem is actually worse when you talk about the people still interested in BB10 - they're even more adamant about THEIR features being the priority.

And when you've got to get people to actually PAY for something, you've got to be concerned about the balance of features (each of which will cost development money) vs. what it will take to get the required minimum number of people to actually spend money.

Android apps wouldn't be an option regardless - any new version would have to have Android stripped out. But with the closing of BB World, you're also more-or-less accepting the fact that there will be NO third-party apps available - it will be either stock apps, the browser, or nothing. Some people here claim they are okay with that - but I'm not sure how many people REALLY would be - and would those people who might not be okay with it still pay for it?

As far as things like GPS - BB had to license the data for BB maps, and there's no way they're going to renew that license, because they've got insufficient revenue to pay for it, and given that most people are used to "free", they aren't going to be able to charge for it. That means you'd be stuck with using Google Maps or some alternative via the browser - which also means no navigation.

You can also forget voice services - those are also licensed and provided by third parties, and again, the revenue from a project like this wouldn't be enough to pay for that. No text-to-speech and certainly no virtual assistants.

Who's still interested?

No there are plenty of open source solutions to each of these. If the browser had a better score, and storage for the user, and could also add a standalone web shortcut. It would be a much easier platform to focus on.

Furthermore, the javascript core is not horrible, CSS on the other hand sucks by modern standards. UI is much easier to design and phenomenally lighter.

Posted via CB10

[Leyra B10]

What ever happened to the Microsoft project that was essentially a handset which could be connected up to a display and keyboard and run full Windows? Did it end along with MS' phone?

Hard to find.. Can get a whole computer packaged as a USB device now.

Posted via CB10

[Leyra B10]

OK. We can start there. (I'll suspend my disbelief that BlackBerry would ever allow BB10 to be open sourced for point of argument.). Who will perform the work and pay for it? Sailfish had an existing open source code base that ported easily across hardware platforms because it was developed by Intel and Nokia. And it already has the attention of three open source communities funded by industry players.

So, even assuming the costs are similar, and that the code can be licensed somehow, who wants to start years behind the Sailfish project, when that project has not created a viable market for its devices either?

I really don't see how your vision for a future version of BB10 comes to pass in the world we live in. I understand that it's possible, but I don't see who the sponsors or developers would be.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Is this the opinion of a salesman? I have always felt that many of BB10's best features and capabilities were not advertised or made easy enough to find.

Posted via CB10

[markmall]

Is this the opinion of a salesman? I have always felt that many of BB10's best features and capabilities were not advertised or made easy enough to find.

Posted via CB10

I agree. I think that we will never know if BB10 could have sold well because the awful marketing and non-existent brand awareness doomed it for certain.

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

I agree. I think that we will never know if BB10 could have sold well because the awful marketing and non-existent brand awareness doomed it for certain.

Yes, that, and its 4-years-late arrival to market, nonexistent ecosystem, and abysmal initial software releases.

[conite]

I agree. I think that we will never know if BB10 could have sold well because the awful marketing and non-existent brand awareness doomed it for certain.

Posted via CB10

There were about 80 million BBOS users prior to launch, and less than 1 in 15 of them ever bought a BB10 device. Brand awareness or "lack of marketing" wasn't a problem with most of them.

[Chuck Finley69]

I agree. I think that we will never know if BB10 could have sold well because the awful marketing and non-existent brand awareness doomed it for certain.

Posted via CB10

Advertising with...... the product rolled out in beginning of 2013 wasn't easy and the company wasn't able to delay anymore. BlackBerry was running out from everything. Time delays, declining revenue from operations and negative revenue on future products were all imminent.

Nobody bought the company because it would be free in bankruptcy. Even Fairfax didn't have to complete tender offer since there were no buyers.

You keep proposing that success was possible, if only BlackBerry had better marketed without the cash a very crappie product that everyone returned to stupid people that didn't exist. If they had just dome more of this, success was right there. I bought the Q10 and Z10 at the beginning. They were garbage. Long before Chen. Nobody was paying for any of BlackBerry assets because they were just going to pick the meat off the bones.

What exactly did they have left to market or advertise? Carriers didn't even want the products.

Posted via CB10

[bb10adopter111]

Is this the opinion of a salesman? I have always felt that many of BB10's best features and capabilities were not advertised or made easy enough to find.

Posted via CB10

I'm on record as loving BB10, even in its slightly degraded state today. Not selling anything. But that's different from thinking there is any money to be made with it anymore.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Leyra B10]

Advertising with...... the product rolled out in beginning of 2013 wasn't easy and the company wasn't able to delay anymore. BlackBerry was running out from everything. Time delays, declining revenue from operations and negative revenue on future products were all imminent.

Nobody bought the company because it would be free in bankruptcy. Even Fairfax didn't have to complete tender offer since there were no buyers.

You keep proposing that success was possible, if only BlackBerry had better marketed without the cash a very crappie product that everyone returned to stupid people that didn't exist. If they had just dome more of this, success was right there. I bought the Q10 and Z10 at the beginning. They were garbage. Long before Chen. Nobody was paying for any of BlackBerry assets because they were just going to pick the meat off the bones.

What exactly did they have left to market or advertise? Carriers didn't even want the products.

Posted via CB10

That tells me there was a lack of passion, interest, or some other emotional factor.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

That tells me there was a lack of passion, interest, or some other emotional factor.

Posted via CB10

I think they were very passionate about it, and everyone was working around the clock. They just started the process 4 years too late, and pushed it out before it was quite ready so as not to be 5 years too late.

They spent a lot of money on marketing (relative to their available resources), but it was clear by the early summer that it was a complete, unrecoverable bust.

After spending many, many billions developing BB10, the first thing they did after releasing it was to write off another billion dollars of BB10 inventory.

[Leyra B10]

I think they were very passionate about it, and everyone was working around the clock. They just started the process 4 years too late, and pushed it out before it was quite ready so as not to be 5 years too late.

They spent a lot of money on marketing (relative to their available resources), but it was clear by the early summer that it was a complete, unrecoverable bust.

After spending many, many billions developing BB10, the first thing they did after releasing it was to write off another billion dollars of BB10 inventory.

Sounds like a busy tiring season.

Posted via CB10

[johnny_bravo72]

That tells me there was a lack of passion, interest, or some other emotional factor.

Posted via CB10

Lack of marketing and/or emotional factor? Hardly so. I really think they tried as much as possible...

[danfrancisco]

Whew! I just got up on the last 200 posts on this thread and man were emotions running high!

I loved BB10 and am sad to see it die. But if we're playing out what if scenarios, I really like the idea of BB11 turn into a small sailfish-like outfit where you could buy a copy of the OS and install it for yourself on a compatible device.

The problem with this model is, unlike slabs, it would be tough to find pkb devices that could be rooted.

[kvndoom]

There were about 80 million BBOS users prior to launch, and less than 1 in 15 of them ever bought a BB10 device. Brand awareness or "lack of marketing" wasn't a problem with most of them.

Oh god,, the "marketing" excuse again. I still wish I could see the videos of the Verizon store clerks asking angry Z10 buyers why they're returning their phones and being told "lack of marketing."

BB10 got LOTS of word-of-mouth marketing. Unfortunately, most of it was people telling their friends and family "don't buy that phone! None of your apps will work on it!"

[Chuck Finley69]

Oh god,, the "marketing" excuse again. I still wish I could see the videos of the Verizon store clerks asking angry Z10 buyers why they're returning their phones and being told "lack of marketing."

BB10 got LOTS of word-of-mouth marketing. Unfortunately, most of it was people telling their friends and family "don't buy that phone! None of your apps will work on it!"

Plus many BlackBerry loyalists such as myself unhappy because it wasn't BBOS either and couldn't do BlackBerry standards like tool belt, email, phone calls or texting well as BBOS.

FYI - to all the BB10 loyalists, I've used two BB10 phones as secondary or tertiary devices for almost one week. I did this for the chance to be objective about true functionality of BB10 with and without Apps. I've attempted to operate as basic consumer without all the extreme solutions and rely on APK stores etc.

The phone is usable for CB10, phone calls, emails and texts. As long as I'm using another computer for my business needs, it functions. In 2018, it's not very mobile and versatile when compared to my KEYone. Productivity and efficiency are hampered unless you have second device of some kind as CB10 doesn't pay any of my bills for me.

Posted via CB10

[danfrancisco]

Lack of marketing and/or emotional factor? Hardly so. I really think they tried as much as possible...

OMG... this is... AMAZING! hahahaha

"And we're gonna keep on loving yoouuuu
Our updated SDK is really cooooool
The API's complete, we just want to keep on loving yooouuu"

There are no words...

This was probably done in 2012 ahead of the BB10 launch and man, does that seem like eons ago! So much hope and optimism... sigh

There aren't enough stars and likes to throw at this video! RIM, you gone and done REO Speedwagon proud!

[KAM1138]

Oh god,, the "marketing" excuse again. I still wish I could see the videos of the Verizon store clerks asking angry Z10 buyers why they're returning their phones and being told "lack of marketing."

BB10 got LOTS of word-of-mouth marketing. Unfortunately, most of it was people telling their friends and family "don't buy that phone! None of your apps will work on it!"

Of course Marketing was a major issue. Let's assume that people had a hard, factual issue with their Z10...do you think a company that has a GOOD image will have more returns or less? Apple had various issues with various phones, and Samsung had one that exploded.

Those companies got through their issues, and Blackberry essentially collapsed.

Also--this whole notion that the Z10 was some sort of disaster--I have no idea what people are referring to, because mine worked fine--for about two years before I upgraded.

Marketing isn't the only issue--but to deny that it was and remains an issue (Blackberry brand is still laughed at) is it's own "excuse" to justify a different belief.

Also--the exact thing you noted--BAD word of mouth is a failure in marketing itself. Failure to identify your market and offer them a product that they want.

[KAM1138]

Plus many BlackBerry loyalists such as myself unhappy because it wasn't BBOS either and couldn't do BlackBerry standards like tool belt, email, phone calls or texting well as BBOS.

SNIP
The phone is usable for CB10, phone calls, emails and texts. As long as I'm using another computer for my business needs, it functions. In 2018, it's not very mobile and versatile when compared to my KEYone. Productivity and efficiency are hampered unless you have second device of some kind as CB10 doesn't pay any of my bills for me.
Posted via CB10

Ah, so you're one of those dirty "BBOS loyalists" who just couldn't let go of the past and helped tank BB10.

So, you note that the phone does work for it's core communication functions. But comparing a new phone of 2018 with one from 2013-2014 in a fast moving market really isn't a fair comparison.
If anything, I'd say it's rather amazing that BB10 is working so well today, despite having been effectively abandoned.
I suspect an Android Phone from 2013 would be quite a lot worse by comparison.

[conite]

Marketing isn't the only issue--but to deny that it was and remains an issue (Blackberry brand is still laughed at) is it's own "excuse" to justify a different belief.

Relative to available resources, BlackBerry has always spent a good deal on advertising.

At some point, the product must speak for itself. Look at OnePlus - how many ads have you seen? BB10 didn't resonate to the masses because of the learning curve and the lack of apps.

As I wrote before, only 1 in 15 BBOS users bought a BB10 device - a built in, knowledgeable market.

[KAM1138]

Relative to available resources, BlackBerry has always spent a good deal on advertising.

At some point, the product must speak for itself. Look at OnePlus - how many ads have you seen? BB10 didn't resonate to the masses because of the learning curve and the lack of apps.

"Relative to available resources" is not a measure of "effective amount."

Actually, bad PR, broken brand image and ineffective marketing PREVENTS a product for speaking for itself.

Blackberry's Brand was damaged BEFORE BB10--and they didn't do enough (if anything) to address the torrent of Bad press they got, while being trampled by Apple's great Marketing.

No one wanted to admit that it was a problem that needed to be addressed back in 2012 (even before), and some keep denying it was a major failure by Blackberry.

"Learning Curve"--do you really think that BB10 had a learning curve that was a significant barrier? I mean, it does have functionality beyond a back button, but it doesn't seem difficult.

[KAM1138]

As I wrote before, only 1 in 15 BBOS users bought a BB10 device - a built in, knowledgeable market.

Yeah, they were so bad that they couldn't even retain their current customers. Apple and Google drank their milkshake.

[conite]

Yeah, they were so bad that they couldn't even retain their current customers. Apple and Google drank their milkshake.

Spending yourself into bankruptcy to promote a product that does not appeal to anyone, or to very few, doesn't get you very far.

They were four years too late. Period. End of story. Everything else is moving around deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Chuck Finley69]

Ah, so you're one of those dirty "BBOS loyalists" who just couldn't let go of the past and helped tank BB10.

So, you note that the phone does work for it's core communication functions. But comparing a new phone of 2018 with one from 2013-2014 in a fast moving market really isn't a fair comparison.
If anything, I'd say it's rather amazing that BB10 is working so well today, despite having been effectively abandoned.
I suspect an Android Phone from 2013 would be quite a lot worse by comparison.

My LG G2 was a great phone at that time. It did everything for me that my Q10 or Z10 couldn't do. It could do email better than my BB10 phones at time because they were still missing features that were left off from BBOS.

Regardless. These BB10 phones have communication function but not to caliber of my KEYone. That anyone thinks OP desire of BB11 is possible hasn't lived BlackBerry life since 2011 when the promise of BB10 started with the serious delays.

Posted via CB10

[KAM1138]

Spending yourself into bankruptcy to promote a product that does not appeal to anyone, or to very few, doesn't get you very far.

I would think you'd understand that A company wouldn't INTENTIONALLY make a Product that "doesn't appeal to anyone." So, clearly, they were working under the belief that they WERE making a viable product, and thus should have an effective marketing campaign behind it.

If you think they DID, then I think you're wrong. If your excuse is "Well they didn't have the money" then that speaks to a problem farther up the chain--which is essentially creating a plan that failed to take into account everything that was needed to successfully market a product.

[KAM1138]

My LG G2 was a great phone at that time. It did everything for me that my Q10 or Z10 couldn't do. It could do email better than my BB10 phones at time because they were still missing features that were left off from BBOS.

Regardless. These BB10 phones have communication function but not to caliber of my KEYone. That anyone thinks OP desire of BB11 is possible hasn't lived BlackBerry life since 2011 when the promise of BB10 started with the serious delays.

Posted via CB10

What I'm referring to is your comparison of a Phone of 2018 with one from the past.

What do you mean when you say that your LG G2 did "email better than your BB10 phones."?

I haven't used a KeyOne, but I can say that my Passport has far better communication capabilities (for what I do--not extensive social media) than my Nokia 6.1 (brand new).

What features did your LG have in regards to communications that your BB10 phones didn't? What BBOS functions are you referring to? I only used BBOS for a relatively short time. I liked it, but I liked BB10 much more.