07-03-16 10:57 AM
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  1. tipplex's Avatar
    Is it or also shared with others by BlackBerry?

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 08:55 AM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    Is it or also shared with others by BlackBerry?
    BlackBerry does not have an easy way to decrypt BBM Protected traffic. BBM Protected adds an additional key exchange where the keys are not shared with BlackBerry or any of the infrastructure between the two devices. Is that what you mean?
    04-21-16 10:00 AM
  3. tipplex's Avatar
    Yes

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 11:03 AM
  4. Doggerz's Avatar
    Yes it's shared with others by BlackBerry. Mr. Chen has tried time and time again to tell people, to warn people, that he can and will share your information with whoever he sees fit to share it with.

    This means any BlackBerry device, any BlackBerry controlled traffic such as BES or BBM Protected.

    You and I and anyone else who ever trusted BlackBerry has been Chenned. Now it's up to you if you're going to be Chenned again. And don't trust the jokers here who are telling you that BlackBerry is safe. Do they know it's safe? I prefer to take Chen's word for it that you're NOT safe with BlackBerry.

    Z5 - E6853 / Android 6.0 / T-Mobile USA
    Polt likes this.
    04-21-16 11:15 AM
  5. pbeasley's Avatar
    Agreed that standard BIS communication, PIN to PIN, and consumer level BBM are open to decryption by the shared key.

    However this...
    This means any BlackBerry device, any BlackBerry controlled traffic such as BES or BBM Protected.
    ...
    This 100% false. Misinformation is far worse than the truth you don't like.
    miker476 likes this.
    04-21-16 11:35 AM
  6. tipplex's Avatar
    Thought BBM protected is E2E.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 11:39 AM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    Yes it's shared with others by BlackBerry. Mr. Chen has tried time and time again to tell people, to warn people, that he can and will share your information with whoever he sees fit to share it with.

    This means any BlackBerry device, any BlackBerry controlled traffic such as BES or BBM Protected.

    You and I and anyone else who ever trusted BlackBerry has been Chenned. Now it's up to you if you're going to be Chenned again. And don't trust the jokers here who are telling you that BlackBerry is safe. Do they know it's safe? I prefer to take Chen's word for it that you're NOT safe with BlackBerry.
    Again, Chen is confusing people with his statements (as usual!)

    Chen has said that BB can't decrypt BES and BBM Protected traffic. BB can decrypt normal consumer BBM traffic.
    04-21-16 11:50 AM
  8. beowulf101's Avatar
    Mr. Chen wasn't around at BlackBerry in 2010 when the global key was handed to the Royal Canadian Police. Enough with the "you've been Chenned."

    The global key is what has been shared, not the unique cryptography to each BES with the protected service.

    Posted via CB10
    rthonpm and miker476 like this.
    04-21-16 02:30 PM
  9. Doggerz's Avatar
    I'm not willing to stake sensitive business information on BES. If law enforcement came to Chen and asked to see someone's account Chen would do it. He can't be trusted. In the end its about trust and BlackBerry lost mine.

    Being Chenned is just a fact of life.
    If you trust BES that's great. But it's not doing anyone any service to tell them to trust BES. I'd trust Samsungs platform before I trusted BlackBerry. At least until their CEO starts acting like Chen.

    Z5 - E6853 / Android 6.0 / T-Mobile USA
    04-21-16 05:05 PM
  10. app_Developer's Avatar
    I'm not willing to stake sensitive business information on BES. If law enforcement came to Chen and asked to see someone's account Chen would do it. He can't be trusted. In the end its about trust and BlackBerry lost mine.
    How is BlackBerry going to show your account to LE when they don't have access to your BES? Or your keys?
    04-21-16 05:08 PM
  11. beowulf101's Avatar
    How is BlackBerry going to show your account to LE when they don't have access to your BES? Or your keys?
    BlackBerry can't share what they don't have - exactly as stated above.

    Why the ranting here? Chen, Chen, Chen, blah, blah, blah - give it a rest. It wasn't John Chen who shared the key with law enforcement in 2010, and if a warrant come in today, perfectly legally, it gets actioned appropriately. Go to another platform, you're very welcome, but you absolutely and clearly do not work in IT, which is a benefit to whoever you work for. And please don't say that you do or you'll be Googling some very difficult questions for quite some time to keep up the charade. Shut your browser, take a break and have a kit kat.

    Posted via CB10
    FenVV and teknofish like this.
    04-21-16 05:35 PM
  12. rthonpm's Avatar
    Yes it's shared with others by BlackBerry. Mr. Chen has tried time and time again to tell people, to warn people, that he can and will share your information with whoever he sees fit to share it with.

    This means any BlackBerry device, any BlackBerry controlled traffic such as BES or BBM Protected.

    You and I and anyone else who ever trusted BlackBerry has been Chenned. Now it's up to you if you're going to be Chenned again. And don't trust the jokers here who are telling you that BlackBerry is safe. Do they know it's safe? I prefer to take Chen's word for it that you're NOT safe with BlackBerry.

    Z5 - E6853 / Android 6.0 / T-Mobile USA
    Enough with the FUD already.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 07:17 PM
  13. The_Passporter's Avatar
    With all that said, I've been asked by friends to try and install "Signal" and or "Wickr". I've been successful in installing Wickr and had it working for the one day but haven't had much luck since. Has anyone had any luck with either of these two apps. I would prefer Signal cause it is the most secure.

    This is the result of BBM not providing the level of security and privacy that people want. BlackBerry should not have access to our conversations, it's not necessary. I believe Signal does not have the info pass through their servers, just device to device so there is nothing to hand over to the authorities.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 09:08 PM
  14. filanto's Avatar
    With all that said, I've been asked by friends to try and install "Signal" and or "Wickr". I've been successful in installing Wickr and had it working for the one day but haven't had much luck since. Has anyone had any luck with either of these two apps. I would prefer Signal cause it is the most secure.

    This is the result of BBM not providing the level of security and privacy that people want. BlackBerry should not have access to our conversations, it's not necessary. I believe Signal does not have the info pass through their servers, just device to device so there is nothing to hand over to the authorities.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Posted via CB10
    There are two levels of BBM, one standard and one paid. The paid one has a higher level of encryption. My guess is most of the complaining is coming from people who don't want to pay for it


    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 09:22 PM
  15. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Understood but my question is do both versions have data that passes through BlackBerry servers which can be decrypted by BlackBerry and handed over to the authorities if warranted?

    This is the reason my friends asked me to get one of the said apps above
    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by The_Passporter; 04-21-16 at 10:14 PM.
    04-21-16 09:28 PM
  16. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Not that I am participating in illegal activities........

    :O

    Lol

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 09:33 PM
  17. rthonpm's Avatar
    Understood but my point is do both versions have data that passes through BlackBerry servers which can be decrypted by BlackBerry and handed over to the authorities if warranted?
    BBM Protected and BES generate their own unique encryption keys that BlackBerry has no access to.

    Posted via CB10
    The_Passporter likes this.
    04-21-16 09:40 PM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Agreed that standard BIS communication, PIN to PIN, and consumer level BBM are open to decryption by the shared key.
    BBM on everything apart from a legacy BBOS phone being used on a carrier's mobile network also encrypts messages in transit with TLS. Legacy BBOS phones also use TLS in transit if they are on WiFi. So the global "shared key" alone isn't enough to decrypt unless it's an old BlackBerry on BIS mobile data.

    On iOS and Android the BBM message database on the device is encrypted with SQLCipher.

    You get all that security even before you subscribe to BBM Protected.


    Posted from the CB10 app on my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2/10.3.2.2789 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.6.28
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 04-21-16 at 10:05 PM.
    04-21-16 09:48 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I'm not willing to stake sensitive business information on BES. If law enforcement came to Chen and asked to see someone's account Chen would do it. He can't be trusted. In the end its about trust and BlackBerry lost mine.
    Obviously the choice is up to you, but I think this is a case where you aren't understanding the nuances of the technology. Standard BBM is "weak" because BB has the keys (and apparently so do others), but BBM on BES or with BBM Protected uses additional encryption that BB has no access to. It's very similar to what Apple does with iMessage (and what WhatsApp and Viber are doing).

    While I agree that Chen doesn't always phrase things well, the truth is that nothing he said is really unexpected or outrageous - you just have to make sure you understand exactly WHAT he is talking about. He has to cooperate with LEOs with standard BBM, because he CAN, but he doesn't have to cooperate with BES or Protected BBM, because he CAN'T.

    Apple's whole point is to make their encryption secure enough that they also CAN'T cooperate even if they wanted to - that way, they're no longer "in the loop" and are protected from customer backlashes (and also protect customers, even from their own governments - some of whom routinely violate human rights).

    That's more-or-less the same as what BB did with BES, and later with BBM Protected - they took themselves out of the loop.

    If you have a beef with BB about this, it should really be about the fact that they don't give BBM Protected for free to BB smartphone buyers. THAT would essentially eliminate the issue - but BB needs the money too badly to give it away.
    Uzi and 1khalid like this.
    04-21-16 10:21 PM
  20. The_Passporter's Avatar
    And this is why I use "Signal" as a way to communicate sensitive information. They also have nothing to provide the authorities and, HELLO! It's FREE. that's what I'm talkn'bout! I understand BlackBerry can't do that cause they are trying to make ends meat but they should just to show the world they can be a secure choice without risk to anyone. This is the competition today, to be totally secure even if it means the pOlice.

    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 07:20 AM
  21. byex's Avatar
    Yes it's shared with others by BlackBerry. Mr. Chen has tried time and time again to tell people, to warn people, that he can and will share your information with whoever he sees fit to share it with.

    This means any BlackBerry device, any BlackBerry controlled traffic such as BES or BBM Protected.

    You and I and anyone else who ever trusted BlackBerry has been Chenned. Now it's up to you if you're going to be Chenned again. And don't trust the jokers here who are telling you that BlackBerry is safe. Do they know it's safe? I prefer to take Chen's word for it that you're NOT safe with BlackBerry.

    Z5 - E6853 / Android 6.0 / T-Mobile USA
    Misinformation.


    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 09:04 AM
  22. byex's Avatar
    I'm not willing to stake sensitive business information on BES. If law enforcement came to Chen and asked to see someone's account Chen would do it. He can't be trusted. In the end its about trust and BlackBerry lost mine.

    Being Chenned is just a fact of life.
    If you trust BES that's great. But it's not doing anyone any service to tell them to trust BES. I'd trust Samsungs platform before I trusted BlackBerry. At least until their CEO starts acting like Chen.

    Z5 - E6853 / Android 6.0 / T-Mobile USA
    You have no idea how BES works. If you do please enlighten me. You obviously know something that most don't.
    Please go do some research on the BES infrastructure and implementation.

    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 09:08 AM
  23. byex's Avatar
    And this is why I use "Signal" as a way to communicate sensitive information. They also have nothing to provide the authorities and, HELLO! It's FREE. that's what I'm talkn'bout! I understand BlackBerry can't do that cause they are trying to make ends meat but they should just to show the world they can be a secure choice without risk to anyone. This is the competition today, to be totally secure even if it means the pOlice.

    Posted via CB10
    You may want to rethink that after reading this.

    https://pando.com/2015/03/01/interne...ry-of-the-bbg/



    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 09:36 AM
  24. Tony Morfin's Avatar
    Is BBM protected still secure?-img_1724.png

    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 10:09 AM
  25. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Understood but my question is do both versions have data that passes through BlackBerry servers which can be decrypted by BlackBerry and handed over to the authorities if warranted?

    This is the reason my friends asked me to get one of the said apps above
    Posted via CB10
    BBM Protected has end-to-end encryption and no longer requires BES.

    https://help.blackberry.com/en/bbm-p...183785242.html

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    04-22-16 11:59 AM
70 123

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