06-03-17 01:50 AM
85 1234
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  1. conite's Avatar
    Again, which I must, to be clear, I didn't make any remark about whether free systems work or not, or how well they work. Very simply, I am saying free may be free to you, but it isn't free, and you are very likely the product and not the customer.
    You should look into Telegram. No ads, no data mining, full e2e encryption.
    05-27-17 09:41 AM
  2. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Again, which I must, to be clear, I didn't make any remark about whether free systems work or not, or how well they work. Very simply, I am saying free may be free to you, but it isn't free, and you are very likely the product and not the customer.

    I would not put trial versions of apps in the same category. I think that obviously I and the others are talking about totally free, no cost to the user, and not a trial or limited time no cost app. And it should be obvious that there are exceptions. Hence I say probably or likely. I never said always.

    Finally, again, yes, BlackBerry botched things. Let's get past that. Every thread about something or other with BB10 shouldn't be another opportunity to lash out at BlackBerry or those who stil use BB10.
    I think I need to be clear, my company that I own. Has spent thousands are BB phones and alike, this is not a hobby. But we could no longer stay with a company that cuts its own throat.

    I still use my Passport for my daily phone. But my corporate phone is an I Phone. Not because it's better, but you go where support and service are; as for BBM . The other services such as Skype and alike are not trials or alike.these are full services based software. Everything works, if you want to go further than you can buy in. For the average user the first level works fine, this is a two way street. The software developers get to prove out the upgrades to the first level user. Then push it out to the corporate user a win win. The basic consumer can use the software free while the paying consumer benefits from smoother software.
    05-27-17 09:54 AM
  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I have never been so happy with an update haha. Does anyone know something about the change log?
    Literally NOTHING for consumers. In BlackBerry's own words:

    (Note: While BlackBerry 10 consumer users of BBM will see an update available in the BlackBerry World app store, there are no changes for them.)
    http://blogs.blackberry.com/2017/05/...rprise-update/
    05-27-17 10:51 AM
  4. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I think I need to be clear, my company that I own. Has spent thousands are BB phones and alike, this is not a hobby. But we could no longer stay with a company that cuts its own throat.

    I still use my Passport for my daily phone. But my corporate phone is an I Phone. Not because it's better, but you go where support and service are; as for BBM . The other services such as Skype and alike are not trials or alike.these are full services based software. Everything works, if you want to go further than you can buy in. For the average user the first level works fine, this is a two way street. The software developers get to prove out the upgrades to the first level user. Then push it out to the corporate user a win win. The basic consumer can use the software free while the paying consumer benefits from smoother software.
    I think this is a great example of why BB10 is no longer a good choice for business. IPHONES are dominating because they do everything and are all the same.

    Posted via CB10
    05-27-17 11:00 AM
  5. werkregen's Avatar
    You should look into Telegram. No ads, no data mining, full e2e encryption.
    Actually, we don't know that there's no data mining. Moreover, their encryption is known to be kinda weak.
    05-27-17 11:42 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Actually, we don't know that there's no data mining. Moreover, their encryption is known to be kinda weak.
    It's not weak.

    The CIA was only able to compromise the security by hacking the phones first.

    http://heavy.com/tech/2017/03/wikile...d-apps-update/

    "Essentially, it’s not the apps themselves that are hacked. But the CIA found a way*around*the apps in order to bypass their popular end-to-end encryption feature. The phones had to be hacked first before this encryption could be bypassed."
    05-27-17 12:04 PM
  7. David Tyler's Avatar
    I was speaking generally of so called "free" services and the fact that someone is paying for it, and in such cases the user is the product. That is not off base. It is a true statement.
    Can't get around it. There's STILL "no free lunch."

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    05-27-17 12:06 PM
  8. werkregen's Avatar
    It's not weak.

    The CIA was only able to compromise the security by hacking the phones first.

    http://heavy.com/tech/2017/03/wikile...d-apps-update/

    "Essentially, it’s not the apps themselves that are hacked. But the CIA found a way*around*the apps in order to bypass their popular end-to-end encryption feature. The phones had to be hacked first before this encryption could be bypassed."
    I was refering to this article which questions the strenght of their encryption:

    https://moxie.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/

    Anyway, AFAIK, only their client is open source and we don't know what happens server-side so we can't be certain about the data mining part.

    Also, you know, when something is free, you are the product.
    05-27-17 01:06 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    I was refering to this article which questions the strenght of their encryption:

    https://moxie.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/

    Anyway, AFAIK, only their client is open source and we don't know what happens server-side so we can't be certain about the data mining part.

    Also, you know, as long as something is free, you are the product.
    Some security geeks have questions about some technical aspects of the encryption, yes. But to this day, including the CIA, there is no evidence that anyone has cracked it.

    If you believe Telegram, users are not products at present. It's possible they are doing this so they can eventually move to a fremium model once they lock in enough users.
    05-27-17 01:10 PM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Some security geeks have questions about some technical aspects of the encryption, yes. But to this day, including the CIA, there is no evidence that anyone has cracked it.

    If you believe Telegram, users are not products at present. It's possible they are doing this so they can eventually move to a fremium model once they lock in enough users.
    Oh but it makes so much sense to only believe BBM and not Telegram.

    Posted via CB10
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    05-27-17 01:41 PM
  11. werkregen's Avatar
    Some security geeks have questions about some technical aspects of the encryption, yes. But to this day, including the CIA, there is no evidence that anyone has cracked it.

    If you believe Telegram, users are not products at present. It's possible they are doing this so they can eventually move to a fremium model once they lock in enough users.
    Well, it really depends on who you trust. I'm using serveral messaging platforms and I trust Telegram the least because it's been free for several years backed by unknown investors. But it's the most convenient cross-platform messenger.

    At least with iMessage we know it's a complementary product to the iOS ecosystem, so it doesn't *have* to generate money and Whatsapp implemented axolotl with e2e encryption turned on by default.

    Telegram isn't e2e by default, it uses some odd SSL stuff. My firewall blocks it all the time cause it's weird.
    05-27-17 02:25 PM
  12. yyz321's Avatar
    It's nice to see an app being updated, but are they bringing more OS updates to BB10?
    05-27-17 03:40 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    It's nice to see an app being updated, but are they bringing more OS updates to BB10?
    The app has NOT been updated for consumers.

    It just forces Protected users over to BBM Enterprise.

    I would doubt we will see any more updates for BB10.
    05-27-17 03:50 PM
  14. aiharkness's Avatar
    Some security geeks have questions about some technical aspects of the encryption, yes. But to this day, including the CIA, there is no evidence that anyone has cracked it.

    If you believe Telegram, users are not products at present. It's possible they are doing this so they can eventually move to a fremium model once they lock in enough users.
    There are some points on the logic in this part of the thread.

    The fact that someone exploited the device, from what we know, doesn't mean the encryption couldn't or can't be broken. It could be that the someone took the easier or most practicable approach and succeeded. And on that, it's no surprise, and no surprise that that approach apparently succeeded, according to what's in the news. Yes, so far as we know, there is no news the encryption has been broken. But that doesn't mean it hasn't, or that it cannot be broken. For all we know, it has, and no one on the outside has learned about it yet.

    Second, and this is astounding, it's beyond illogical that anyone who is concerned enough about their vulnerability and threat profile as to want e2e encryption would choose a service provider on what is possible, and what is best possible at that. Sure, *maybe* investors are funding a current free to user business model with only the end users interests at heart, but who knows. You are so interested in privacy or security or both that you (the general you) would trust that to who knows?

    I didn't know much about Telegram. I might have taken a look at it at some point in the future. This thread tells me there's no reason to do so.

    Someone above mentioned trust, I think. I agree. At the very end of our selections we have to go with trust to some extent. We do our research and try to make an informed decision, but often the final act comes down to a decision about trust.

    I still say use what works for you. But those who criticize others for fanciful thinking need to watch themselves as well.
    05-27-17 05:25 PM
  15. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Well, it really depends on who you trust. I'm using serveral messaging platforms and I trust Telegram the least because it's been free for several years backed by unknown investors. But it's the most convenient cross-platform messenger.

    At least with iMessage we know it's a complementary product to the iOS ecosystem, so it doesn't *have* to generate money and Whatsapp implemented axolotl with e2e encryption turned on by default.

    Telegram isn't e2e by default, it uses some odd SSL stuff. My firewall blocks it all the time cause it's weird.
    Bit you really have no idea if iMessage is mined. It seems a great opportunity for them to get more ideas about individual users.

    Posted via CB10
    05-27-17 06:46 PM
  16. werkregen's Avatar
    Bit you really have no idea if iMessage is mined. It seems a great opportunity for them to get more ideas about individual users.

    Posted via CB10
    Well iMessage is advertised as native e2e and I suspect a free messenger built as a complementary service is less likely to breach user privacy than a messenger built as a standalone business unit.

    The dev team from Apple can be paid from money made from iPhone sales, whereas Telegram's dev team has to survive from Telegram's revenue. Which can come only from unknown investors with unknown agendas or from data mining.

    If Telegram team had created the messenger out of pure goodwill, they'd have open sourced the server code a long time ago, which in fact they insinuated they'd do when they started having traction. Looks like it was just a marketing ploy.

    Telegram also advertises itself as secure but doesnt have e2e turned on by default. They advertise as private, but they keep all media on their servers.

    Overall, I have no reason to trust Telegram. I use it because it's convenient, but when I have something private to talk, I use Signal or WhatsApp.
    05-27-17 07:21 PM
  17. Anilu7's Avatar
    i havent noticed any change yet.
    Unless you have BBM Protected you won't. This update (source Inside BlackBerry Blogs) is to move BBM Protected users to BBM Enterprise. In it, BB10 users can video chat with Android/iOS BBM users and will now be able to set up multipurson chats of up to 250 people. BUT they will lose BBM groups and Channels.

    http://blogs.blackberry.com/2017/05/...rprise-update/
    05-27-17 11:40 PM
  18. thejackson5's Avatar
    Can someone explain how to pay to get cross-platform video calls? I'm happy to pay for it but the only option I see in-app is to switch to the Enterprise version, but my company doesn't have that.

    Posted via CB10
    05-27-17 11:48 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Can someone explain how to pay to get cross-platform video calls? I'm happy to pay for it but the only option I see in-app is to switch to the Enterprise version, but my company doesn't have that.

    Posted via CB10
    That's the only way. BlackBerry Enterprise.
    05-28-17 12:36 AM
  20. playfoot's Avatar
    Nothing is free. Someone is paying for it. And they aren't giving it away for nothing.

    If you ain't paying for it, then likely you are the product. That doesn't seem to matter to 99 out of 100 people. Which is fine for them. Just not fine for me.
    100% agreement. Very true.
    05-28-17 08:59 AM
  21. Huussi's Avatar
    Nothing is free. Someone is paying for it. And they aren't giving it away for nothing.

    If you ain't paying for it, then likely you are the product. That doesn't seem to matter to 99 out of 100 people. Which is fine for them. Just not fine for me.
    This is why I always prefer open-source software, and am willing to make some sacrifices to mostly stay away from proprietary counterparts.
    Transparency is underrated.
    05-28-17 10:33 AM
  22. aiharkness's Avatar
    Can someone explain how to pay to get cross-platform video calls? I'm happy to pay for it but the only option I see in-app is to switch to the Enterprise version, but my company doesn't have that.

    Posted via CB10
    You may be able to purchase BBM Enterprise for your personal use. From BlackBerry's standpoint your company which you identify on the application would be you. I'm not sure what a new user would do today. I purchased BBM Protected from BlackBerry online when one could do that. To renew now, I go though an email exchange with BlackBerry and ultimately pay with credit card. My memory is after confirming that I wanted to renew and answering that I did not have a purchase order number I was given a URL and the option to pay with credit card. But I don't know how a new customer would go about applying for BBM Enterprise now. Maybe the answer is already on the forum, or someone else will tell you what you can do nowadays.

    And to confirm what another has already answered, yes, so far as right now, this is the only way to get cross-platform video calling in BBM on BB10.
    05-28-17 12:15 PM
  23. bobshine's Avatar
    Bit you really have no idea if iMessage is mined. It seems a great opportunity for them to get more ideas about individual users.

    Posted via CB10
    Apple doesn't have to mine. Also they would have a lot more to lose if someone find out they mine iMessage then not doing it.

    At some point, you need to trust someone... unless you build your own messaging app, there is no way to be 100% sure.
    05-28-17 06:17 PM
  24. sorinv's Avatar
    You should look into Telegram. No ads, no data mining, full e2e encryption.
    Are they a charity? How do they pay salaries?

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-17 06:42 PM
  25. sorinv's Avatar
    Can someone explain how to pay to get cross-platform video calls? I'm happy to pay for it but the only option I see in-app is to switch to the Enterprise version, but my company doesn't have that.

    Posted via CB10
    You do not need a company other than yourself as the company to switch to BBM enterprise.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-17 06:45 PM
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