[bqik]

Dear Crackberry administrator or/and moderators.

Would it be possible that you create an article asking if people are interested in a Priv with BB10?

Thanks

Regards

[Soulstream]

Dear Crackberry administrator or/and moderators.

Would it be possible that you create an article asking if people are interested in a Priv with BB10?

Thanks

Regards

Yes, of course people are interested in such a device, it's just that the number of such people is too small to warrant such an investment from BB.

[tnc]

Ya, the numbers may be small. However, i'm interested and gosh (!) I am worth it!

Do it BlackBerry!!

Posted via CB10

[The_Passporter]

I don't understand what investment is required? They already made the phone that functions much like a BB10 phone so what would be the big deal swapping out OS's and Making it a BB10 device? Seems like if they want to create awareness for BB10 at virtually no cost they could simply offer the Priv with BB10 loaded after the demand for the Priv has settled. It's not rocket science....i don't think? Lol

Posted via CB10

[HabsSuck]

I don't understand what investment is required? They already made the phone that functions much like a BB10 phone so what would be the big deal swapping out OS's and Making it a BB10 device? Seems like if they want to create awareness for BB10 at virtually no cost they could simply offer the Priv with BB10 loaded after the demand for the Priv has settled. It's not rocket science....i don't think? Lol

Posted via CB10

BB10 is no longer the future for its devices the fact of the matter is no matter how superior the OS is, the lack of a app catalogue will always be it's shortcoming. BB10 users can wish and hope all they want but the future is Android for BlackBerry and I must say with its first device they've done very well and I can't wait for the next few updates.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Kryngle]

BB10 is no longer the future for its devices the fact of the matter is no matter how superior the OS is, the lack of a app catalogue will always be it's shortcoming. BB10 users can wish and hope all they want but the future is Android for BlackBerry and I must say with its first device they've done very well and I can't wait for the next few updates.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

I will agree that the device is great but they have chosen the WRONG OS for it. BlackBerry had numerous chances on saving BB10 by improving the OS but chose to twiddle their thumbs and then stick it up their butts. They didn't even put an effort into promoting BB10 the way they doing the Priv and this was all under Chen's watch. We should flood his email to the max chanting "WE WANT A BB10 PRIV" audio file and video lol.

Posted via CB10

[dvarnai]

with all those quality issues, im not interested at all... whether its android or bb10...

[The_Passporter]

with all those quality issues, im not interested at all... whether its android or bb10...

What quality issues?

Are you referring to the bugs that cam with the initial release of the new phone? You mean to tell me that you think that these minor bugs can't be fixed with an update or 10? Are you saying that you can overlook the fact that apple after how many years and releases are constantly re-releasing updates after updates to fix their last updates? You've got to me kidding me!

Posted via CB10

[crucial bbq]

Yes, of course people are interested in such a device, it's just that the number of such people is too small to warrant such an investment from BB.

Too small for what? Xioami, Kyocera, ZTE, Huawei, and even Ubuntu, do small limited runs of 40K or so a pop. The Priv may or may not be the proper device for it, but I think this rumored Vienna would be more suitable for BB10.

BB10 is no longer the future for its devices the fact of the matter is no matter how superior the OS is, the lack of a app catalogue will always be it's shortcoming. BB10 users can wish and hope all they want but the future is Android for BlackBerry and I must say with its first device they've done very well and I can't wait for the next few updates.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

For one, it is not the lack of apps that is an issue; it's a lack of apps that *you* need that is. Outside of one banking app, for me, BB10 has all of the native apps I need and to be frank I don't really need that banking app to begin with as it is more or less only a convenience thing.

I also all but nearly guarantee that if all else were to remain equal if BB10 had the universal FB and FB Messenger apps, Instagram, SnapChat, Netflix, YouTube, and something like Uber that the app gap would somehow magically not be an issue.

[dvarnai]

What quality issues?

Are you referring to the bugs that cam with the initial release of the new phone? You mean to tell me that you think that these minor bugs can't be fixed with an update or 10? Are you saying that you can overlook the fact that apple after how many years and releases are constantly re-releasing updates after updates to fix their last updates? You've got to me kidding me!

Posted via CB10

im not sure how a creaky back cover would be fixed with a sw update. or the wiggly sliding mechanism, or the green front camera (although that might be due to overheating...). also i buy the device for what it is, not what it MIGHT become

[Troy Tiscareno]

I don't understand what investment is required? They already made the phone that functions much like a BB10 phone so what would be the big deal swapping out OS's and Making it a BB10 device?

As has been discussed here at length several times, the investment is much larger than most people realize.

• Most BB10 developers have been laid off. New ones would have to be hired, trained, and brought up to speed. This would take 6-12 months at least.
• Unlike Android, hardware drivers for all of the phone's components aren't available for QNX, and the only way BB can get them is to pay the manufacturers of those components to write them. This is why so many previous BB phones used the same old S4 SOC and other hardware. Given the very low number of projected sales of, say, a BB10 Priv, this cost alone might add another $75-100 per phone to the cost.
• Releasing a BB10 version of the Priv would only cause confusion in the market and cause potential customers to question BB's commitment to the Android Priv - and the Android Priv is the priority.
• BB is already losing $100 per BB10 phone sold. The lower the production run, the higher that number is going to be, as development costs are spread across fewer sold phones. Why would the BoD authorize another BB10 device just to lose more money, when they are at least breaking even (and probably turning a profit) on the Priv?

When you own your own OS, ecosystem, and hardware, you must bear 100% of the costs for its development, and when that is a niche OS, those costs are a much larger percentage of the net cost of the product then when you are selling 10s or 100s of millions. You don't just click "setup.exe" and install a custom OS on new hardware - it takes a ton of development work to get all the issues ironed out, and developers don't work for free.

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

As has been discussed here at length several times, the investment is much larger than most people realize.

• Most BB10 developers have been laid off. New ones would have to be hired, trained, and brought up to speed. This would take 6-12 months at least.
• Unlike Android, hardware drivers for all of the phone's components aren't available for QNX, and the only way BB can get them is to pay the manufacturers of those components to write them. This is why so many previous BB phones used the same old S4 SOC and other hardware. Given the very low number of projected sales of, say, a BB10 Priv, this cost alone might add another $75-100 per phone to the cost.
• Releasing a BB10 version of the Priv would only cause confusion in the market and cause potential customers to question BB's commitment to the Android Priv - and the Android Priv is the priority.
• BB is already losing $100 per BB10 phone sold. The lower the production run, the higher that number is going to be, as development costs are spread across fewer sold phones. Why would the BoD authorize another BB10 device just to lose more money, when they are at least breaking even (and probably turning a profit) on the Priv?

When you own your own OS, ecosystem, and hardware, you must bear 100% of the costs for its development, and when that is a niche OS, those costs are a much larger percentage of the net cost of the product then when you are selling 10s or 100s of millions. You don't just click "setup.exe" and install a custom OS on new hardware - it takes a ton of development work to get all the issues ironed out, and developers don't work for free.

BlackBerry 10 shouldn't be a niche market. QNX is compatible with most of the CPU's (from what I know) .
I keep reading opinions that is developers need to be paid and the cost of creating an ecosystem is high. BlackBerry will sell a lot of BlackBerry Priv Units, that's true. BlackBerry investing in BlackBerry 10 is what has to be done. How to expensive to bring developers when is not to expensive to aquire other companies. BlackBerry did aquire a number of other companies in the last years and those were some big investments, good investments. A fresh and powerful ecosystem would be another good investment. After they bring BlackBerry 10 at the level it deserves, the apps market will feed itself.
If you look at the many of the reviews of BlackBerry 10 you will see a lot of lies, unfair directed stuffs and that means the competition know what a powerful tool is BlackBerry 10. If it would not be a serious competitor it would be ignored by the other platforms.

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

How to expensive to bring developers when is not to expensive to aquire other companies. BlackBerry did aquire a number of other companies in the last years and those were some big investments, good investments.

Because developers are 100% cost. Companies acquired ideally bring in revenue streams. Or are close to doing so on new products. Good Technology was losing money but buying them eliminates BlackBerry's largest MDM competitor. Which might ease pricing pressure for BlackBerry on its BES licensing. Also gives BlackBerry access to those customers. A relationship.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

Because developers are 100% cost. Companies acquired ideally bring in revenue streams. Or are close to doing so on new products. Good Technology was losing money but buying them eliminates BlackBerry's largest MDM competitor. Which might ease pricing pressure for BlackBerry on its BES licensing. Also gives BlackBerry access to those customers. A relationship.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

90% of the complaining about BlackBerry 10 is the apps gap. If BlackBerry 10 would have all the all the important apps that Android has it would be the best option in purchasing a smartphone. Of course, BlackBerry should also take care that most of the people would at least try this OS. The other thing is that a big procent of the developers only needs a platform to sell their apps on. If BlackBerry 10 would have a bigger market share it would be a "good place to sell your apps".
These days other companies are trying to sell their services through apps. Those are also an important procent of the needed apps for most of the users. For example I use an Android app for my bank account. When I called the bank to ask about an app for BlackBerry they said it exist, but it exist only for BBOS7. They didn't even know that BlackBerry 10 is the current OS used for BlackBerry devices.

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

90% of the complaining about BlackBerry 10 is the apps gap. If BlackBerry 10 would have all the all the important apps that Android has it would be the best option in purchasing a smartphone.

I don't agree. Having apps is not enough. The apps have to be done as well or even better than on iOS for example. For the major apps that did a BlackBerry 10 version their apps tend to lag behind their iOS and Android couterparts in being updated. In fact some even become abandoned and the removed from BlackBerry World.

Same thing happened to Windows Phone. The big name apps aren't typically as good on Win Phone. App store has the same issues.

Devs see the app download metrics by OS. Once an OS loses steam they lose interest and reallocate resources.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

I don't agree. Having apps is not enough. The apps have to be done as well or even better than on iOS for example. For the major apps that did a BlackBerry 10 version their apps tend to lag behind their iOS and Android couterparts in being updated. In fact some even become abandoned and the removed from BlackBerry World.

Same thing happened to Windows Phone. The big name apps aren't typically as good on Win Phone. App store has the same issues.

Devs see the app download metrics by OS. Once an OS loses steam they lose interest and reallocate resources.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

I agree with you. I don't know what was the situation with the windows phone but most of the apps from BlackBerry World that are not working properly are actually converted Android apps and they are not native BlackBerry 10. At least the apps I had problems with. And if the apps are laggy that should be the developers fault, not the OS. QNX platform is used in industries where a quick response is needed and one of its advantages is that is more flexible than other platforms.

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

I agree with you. I don't know what was the situation with the windows phone but most of the apps from BlackBerry World that are not working properly are actually converted Android apps and they are not native BlackBerry 10. At least the apps I had problems with. And if the apps are laggy that should be the developers fault, not the OS. QNX platform is used in industries where a quick response is needed and one of its advantages is that is more flexible than other platforms.

Posted via CB10

Assigning fault to the developers doesn't help BlackBerry. They have to win according to how the game is played.

The merits of the QNX kernel also don't really help BlackBerry. Linux is adequate.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

Assigning fault to the developers doesn't help BlackBerry. They have to win according to how the game is played.

The merits of the QNX kernel also don't really help BlackBerry. Linux is adequate.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Nobody is assigning fault on the developers. Their product is as good as much effort they put in it.
ONX kernel helps BlackBerry in using low spec CPU without using speed. Android devices needs higher specs. BlackBerry Priv has needs higher specs because of the OS. That's one of the overheating problem with BlackBerry Priv.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

90% of the complaining about BlackBerry 10 is the apps gap. If BlackBerry 10 would have all the all the important apps that Android has it would be the best option in purchasing a smartphone. Of course, BlackBerry should also take care that most of the people would at least try this OS. The other thing is that a big procent of the developers only needs a platform to sell their apps on. If BlackBerry 10 would have a bigger market share it would be a "good place to sell your apps".
These days other companies are trying to sell their services through apps. Those are also an important procent of the needed apps for most of the users. For example I use an Android app for my bank account. When I called the bank to ask about an app for BlackBerry they said it exist, but it exist only for BBOS7. They didn't even know that BlackBerry 10 is the current OS used for BlackBerry devices.

The customer service representative you spoke with may not have known about BB10. But I'm quite sure the folks in your bank who actually decide these things do know about BB10, and they know how few of their customers actually use BB10.

Apple had exactly the same problem back when banking apps were all on BB7. But Apple didn't buy developer support, instead they have us an SDK that allowed us to build apps that we couldn't build on the BB7 SDK. If BB10 allowed us to build apps that we can't build on other OSes, then things would be quite different.

[Troy Tiscareno]

BlackBerry 10 shouldn't be a niche market.

Should or shouldn't is irrelevant. BB10 is a niche app. Even BB has admitted this many times.

QNX is compatible with most of the CPU's (from what I know)

It can be made compatible, sure, just as Windows and iOS and Linux and BSD can... IF there are hardware drivers written for those OSs to allow access to that hardware. No drivers? It isn't compatible.

Hardware manufacturers go ahead and write Android drivers for everything by default, because Android owns 83% of the market, and it's in their best interest to do this. They don't provide drivers for other OSs for free, though, so if MS wants to put Windows on a phone, or if Apple wants to put a component in the iPhone, they have to pay to have Windows or iOS drivers written. It was the same for WebOS, and it's the same for BB10. John Chen has talked about this in interviews, but we talked about it here even before that.

I keep reading opinions that is developers need to be paid and the cost of creating an ecosystem is high.

Not only are the costs very high (all kinds of things beyond dev salaries go into this: developing APIs, developing SDKs, developing programming environments, providing dev hardware, dev conferences, dev support structures, etc. etc.), but many large companies simply refuse to spend their time or money developing their apps for platforms that have less than 5 or 10% of the market - which means they develop for iOS, Android, and maybe WinPhone as a low third priority (and so, WinPhone apps are often far behind the other two). BB10 has around 0.2% of the global marketshare, which means they are in 5th place behind Tizen.

So, again, many companies simply won't develop for BB10 no matter what, and others will only do so if a very large bounty is paid for that app. BB simply can't sustain those costs (remember: they already lose $100 per BB10 handset sold), and without all of the big-name apps that will never come AT ALL, there's really no point.

BlackBerry investing in BlackBerry 10 is what has to be done.

BB did that for 5 years, and it nearly killed the company. BB10 has directly cost the company $8-9B in losses, plus another $10B or so in total corporate value. And sales have trended down since the beginning. The time to invest in BB10 is long over. You have to be in denial not to see that.

A fresh and powerful ecosystem would be another good investment. After they bring BlackBerry 10 at the level it deserves, the apps market will feed itself.

That's what BB hoped the entire time with BB10, but that was always an incredibly naive idea, and one which has roundly been proven false - and not just for BB10, but for WinPhone, WebOS, Tizen, Sailfish, and others.

Developers don't want a dozen OSs, or even a half-dozen. More OSs means more work for less money. That's why the desktop has had 3 basic OS choices for the last 30 years: a "primary OS" (Windows), a high-end option (Apple), and some also-ran niche OSs (Linux variants). The exact same thing is happening in mobile, except the "primary OS" is Android, the high-end option is (as always) Apple, and the also-ran niche is WinPhone. BB10 doesn't even have enough marketshare to count anymore, and it's still shrinking.

Microsoft, which is in a much stronger position than BB, has spent tens of billions of dollars developing WinPhone and, more importantly, marketing WinPhone, and despite all of that work and treasure still have a very weak ecosystem that lags far behind the market leaders. BB would need to spend its entire corporate worth every quarter, for several years in a row, to have any hope of displacing Tizen as 4th place, much less MS at 3rd, and obviously BB can't come close to doing that.

It's time to accept the reality of the situation. It makes no difference if BB10 a better OS or not - the battle isn't about OSs and hasn't been since about 2009. The battle is about ecosystems, and BB10 doesn't have one, and never will. BB10's battle is over, and while the last man hasn't yet fallen, its chance of survival, much less victory, is long over.

[southlander]

Nobody is assigning fault on the developers. Their product is as good as much effort they put in it.
ONX kernel helps BlackBerry in using low spec CPU without using speed. Android devices needs higher specs. BlackBerry Priv has needs higher specs because of the OS. That's one of the overheating problem with BlackBerry Priv.

Posted via CB10

Lol, no offense but the first BlackBerry 10 phones couldn't run well on less than 2GB of RAM. There are many other smartphones that could and still can, including Android ones.

The kernel/QNX might be slim and efficient but BlackBerry 10 sure ain't! In fact it's kind of bloated -- guessing mainly due to the built in Android runtime.

[southlander]

If BB10 allowed us to build apps that we can't build on other OSes, then things would be quite different.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
This -- is what it would take for BB10 to gain share. But everyone knows it is impossible for BlackBerry to do.

[Andrew4life]

I would love a BB10 phone, but like others have said, the main reason is the cost of having Qualcomm develop drivers.

Seeing as how BB10 has no ecosystem, it would be hard for them to get much traction. What they need to do is come up with something drastically new. Maybe a holographic phone that pops out of your wristband. But besides a game changer, there is not much of a ecosystem for mainstream users to get into BB10.

Though I'd probably still stick to BB10 as long as updates keep coming and hopefully(wishfully?) the Android runtime updated.

Posted via CB10

[Vistaus]

Yes, of course people are interested in such a device, it's just that the number of such people is too small to warrant such an investment from BB.

So, you're saying CrackBerry can only run an interest poll on topics like this when *BlackBerry* finds it worth it???

Posted via CB10

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

Lol, no offense but the first BlackBerry 10 phones couldn't run well on less than 2GB of RAM. There are many other smartphones that could and still can, including Android ones.

The kernel/QNX might be slim and efficient but BlackBerry 10 sure ain't! In fact it's kind of bloated -- guessing mainly due to the built in Android runtime.

Android smartphones that runs on less that 2GB of RAM are not high end devices and you can not use a real multitasking on it. All doesn't have a lot of feather implemented on it. Saying that there are Android devices that don't use 2 GB of RAM is just like I would say that I still have my BlackBerry Curve on BBOS5 and it doesn't have the specs of a Z10. It runs perfectly but it doesn't do what the Z10 does.
If you think about the Android devices that does everything BlackBerry 10 does at the same speed with the same fluidity without choking when you try to work in a multitasking way they all have higher specs. And you still don't have the power of BlackBerry 10 OS.

Posted via CB10