11-04-17 10:47 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    With most cell phone SoCs designed for Linux or similar not much. But with a simplified and cheaper architecture that does not compromise performance, a lot.
    Since this is pure fantasy, I guess we're done here.
    10-28-17 08:36 PM
  2. DonHB's Avatar
    It's interesting that a company that designs and manufacturers their own SoC has hired the top people from a real time operating system company.
    10-28-17 08:53 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Maybe a more powerful GPU could replace the DSPs in the SoC?
    The GPUs in the current SoC’s are the limits of what present technology will allow within the constraints of a phone. There are a lot of engineers around the world making those GPUs as powerful as they can make them.

    But explain to me how this makes RT more relevant to phones?
    10-28-17 08:54 PM
  4. Invictus0's Avatar
    ]
    But that is why new devices based on BB10 with bug fixes are desired by many.
    Sure but that would require a bit more effort than just maintaining existing devices. Much like the Bold 9900 re-release a few years ago I'm sure BlackBerry would build (or try and find someone to build) new devices if enough government and enterprise customers asked for them.
    10-28-17 08:54 PM
  5. DonHB's Avatar
    Or it would confuse the marketplace for BB Android?
    10-28-17 08:57 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    The GPUs in the current SoC’s are the limits of what present technology will allow within the constraints of a phone. There are a lot of engineers around the world making those GPUs as powerful as they can make them.

    But explain to me how this makes RT more relevant to phones?
    Sure but that would require a bit more effort than just maintaining existing devices. Much like the Bold 9900 re-release a few years ago I'm sure BlackBerry would build (or try and find someone to build) new devices if enough government and enterprise customers asked for them.
    I'm pretty sure Don has just been punking us for the last year.
    10-28-17 08:59 PM
  7. DonHB's Avatar
    But explain to me how this makes RT more relevant to phones?
    What kind of software is running on the DSPs on current SoCs? What happens when you homogenize the architecture in terms of ease of scheduling resources?
    10-28-17 08:59 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure Don has just been punking us for the last year.
    Oh, I missed the joke. I didn’t realize that.
    10-28-17 09:01 PM
  9. DonHB's Avatar
    As did I.
    10-28-17 09:04 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    With due respect, I don't think you really know this as fact. I happen to disagree based on my close following of the company during this period.



    Posted via CB10
    I've asked this before in several threads but don't ever recall your response.

    If BB10 had a stronger adoption rate, it would only have increased the decline of the company. There was never any point where BB ever had revenue model for BB10 that replaced BBOS SAF. It's a conundrum that seems obvious for BB that BB10 was rejected initially and short term kept many larger clients on BBOS.

    Additionally, even if BB had bought Android instead of Google, do you really think BB would have succeeded? The reason BB failed to move forward in the smartphone arena compared to Apple or Google was not having the availability of the sheer economic resources of Apple, Google or even Microsoft.
    10-28-17 09:32 PM
  11. DonHB's Avatar
    I wonder what would have happened if Neutrino based BB10 had used the Android SDK to implement Flow? Would more developers been interested in supporting the platform? Would it be possible to have binary compatibility with Android, but with the Flow UX? Apple apparently needs developers to make changes to support iPhone X, but would the VM in Android make binary compatibility possible?
    Last edited by DonHB; 10-28-17 at 10:26 PM.
    stlabrat likes this.
    10-28-17 10:14 PM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    But explain to me how this makes RT more relevant to phones?
    It's just better because... reasons. RT is always better in every case because it is. Nuclear submarines. Mike Lazaridis. Canada.

    /mic drop.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    10-29-17 12:32 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    I wonder what would have happened if Neutrino based BB10 had used the Android SDK to implement Flow? Would more developers been interested in supporting the platform? Would it be possible to have binary compatibility with Android, but with the Flow UX? Apple apparently needs developers to make changes to support iPhone X, but would the VM in Android make binary compatibility possible?
    None of this makes any sense.

    You either have and 100% Android device with a custom Launcher/skin/apps, or you run a forked Runtime of some sort within another OS. Only the former would get certified.
    10-29-17 07:29 AM
  14. DonHB's Avatar
    No, unless something has changed since 6.x. any OS under the runtime is possible as long as the features the runtime expects is provided by the underlying OS (i.e. certification is possible without Linux)...But I never suggested anything regarding certification. This was about what would have happened if BlackBerry did things more like Amazon and chose to use Android as the API on top of the Flow UX while using Neutrino underneath.
    Last edited by DonHB; 10-29-17 at 10:57 PM.
    10-29-17 10:44 PM
  15. DonHB's Avatar
    It's just better because... reasons. RT is always better in every case because it is. Nuclear submarines. Mike Lazaridis. Canada.

    /mic drop.
    Well, tell us why Apple hired the top people from QNX? Could you need less silicon dedicated to communications if a real time OS with performant IPC was used?
    10-29-17 11:03 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    This was about what would have happened if BlackBerry did things more like Amazon and chose to use Android as the API on top of the Flow UX while using Neutrino underneath.
    This is gobbledygook.

    Amazon made a 100% Android device, but offered its own competing solution to the Google services/apps. We see how well that went.
    10-29-17 11:45 PM
  17. DonHB's Avatar
    This is gobbledygook.

    Amazon made a 100% Android device, but offered its own competing solution to the Google services/apps. We see how well that went.
    Would you say Amazon has the same business model as other device makers? Also, Google is very different from Amazon and this is likely a non-issue for Amazon.

    Oh yeah Netflix, etc. are available on Amazon's devices.
    Last edited by DonHB; 10-29-17 at 11:57 PM. Reason: oh yeah!
    10-29-17 11:51 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Would you say Amazon has the same business model as other device makers? Also, Google is very different from Amazon and this is likely a non-issue for Amazon.
    Who cares? What does that have to do with anything we're discussing?
    10-29-17 11:56 PM
  19. conite's Avatar

    Oh yeah Netflix, etc. are available on Amazon's devices.
    Why wouldn't it be? It's a 100% Android device, and Netflix does not require Google Play Services.
    10-30-17 12:33 AM
  20. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Well, tell us why Apple hired the top people from QNX?
    Easily, the most likely reason is Apple's self-driving car project, which the QNX team has been working on for years. It almost certainly has zero to do with phones - Apple is doing just fine there by themselves.
    10-30-17 12:50 AM
  21. DonHB's Avatar

    Amazon made a 100% Android device, but offered its own competing solution to the Google services/apps. We see how well that went.
    Who cares? What does that have to do with anything we're discussing?
    10-30-17 12:57 AM
  22. conite's Avatar
    You brought up Amazon with respect to technology, and then switched to discussing their business model.
    10-30-17 06:01 AM
  23. DonHB's Avatar
    No, I was responding to your comment regarding success of Amazon's alternatives to Google's services, suggesting, Amazon's business model that required devices, was not reliant on alternatives to Google's services. However, that may now be changing.
    Last edited by DonHB; 10-30-17 at 08:01 PM.
    10-30-17 02:25 PM
  24. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I've asked this before in several threads but don't ever recall your response.

    If BB10 had a stronger adoption rate, it would only have increased the decline of the company. There was never any point where BB ever had revenue model for BB10 that replaced BBOS SAF. It's a conundrum that seems obvious for BB that BB10 was rejected initially and short term kept many larger clients on BBOS.

    Additionally, even if BB had bought Android instead of Google, do you really think BB would have succeeded? The reason BB failed to move forward in the smartphone arena compared to Apple or Google was not having the availability of the sheer economic resources of Apple, Google or even Microsoft.
    I "think" the hope was to copy the Apple business model... close platform with the ability to make money on Apps and Content to offset the SAF fees along with more premium hardware.... margins, than most Android OEMs could hope to ask for.

    But no, they were really never in a position to compete in a level playing field. BIS is what sold BlackBerries. Maybe if they had been the first to come out with a more modern OS... Everyone kept talking about a PC in your hand, that wasn't going to be BBOS. So I don't really get why 2010 was when they figured that out. First time I came to CrackBerry in 2007 that was what most the heated discussions were about.
    10-30-17 03:23 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I "think" the hope was to copy the Apple business model... close platform with the ability to make money on Apps and Content to offset the SAF fees along with more premium hardware.... margins, than most Android OEMs could hope to ask for.

    But no, they were really never in a position to compete in a level playing field. BIS is what sold BlackBerries. Maybe if they had been the first to come out with a more modern OS... Everyone kept talking about a PC in your hand, that wasn't going to be BBOS. So I don't really get why 2010 was when they figured that out. First time I came to CrackBerry in 2007 that was what most the heated discussions were about.
    Apple had iTunes and then apps/content revenue. Google search/ad then metrics revenue. Microsoft had licensing and software revenue. I believe that BB founders knew the revenue and resource limitations and just planned on riding the BIS revenue until it was over. BB share price was so inflated, founders needed to keep it propped up legitimately until they could unload their holdings within regulatory guidelines. Setting up a new OS was measured as success only by the amount of time it kept people attached to BIS. When, BB10 rolled out, enterprise clients realized the new OS had more in common with Android than IOS or BIS. From the BB founders perspective, BB10 was a success with the goal they set for it to accomplish, buy 3-4 years of time and not be fraudulent vaporware.
    10-30-17 06:24 PM
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