11-04-17 10:47 PM
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  1. VaRuLV's Avatar
    It doesnt matter how much youd be willing to pay monthly to keep BB 10 floating, your old hardware will fail sooner or later and there will be no new BB 10 devices ever it seems, so no real reason to keep OS that has no hardware left to run on.
    glwerry likes this.
    10-24-17 10:16 AM
  2. markmall's Avatar
    The most valuable asset BlackBerry has might be its unfiled antitrust lawsuit against Google. Instead, Chen criticized the tiny app developers for not making BB10 versions of everything.

    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-24-17 01:56 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    The most valuable asset BlackBerry has might be its unfiled antitrust lawsuit against Google.
    How so? BlackBerry could have happily continued to use AOSP as long as it wanted to, without restriction.

    It was BlackBerry who approached Google and requested OHA certification for BlackBerry Android so that they could offer the Play Store to its customers.
    10-24-17 02:09 PM
  4. glwerry's Avatar
    The most valuable asset BlackBerry has might be its unfiled antitrust lawsuit against Google. Instead, Chen criticized the tiny app developers for not making BB10 versions of everything.

    Posted via CB10
    That's NOT an asset.

    An asset has to be something tangible. An antitrust lawsuit, on the other hand, falls much more under the "crap shoot" sort of category. If they had filed such a lawsuit and WON, then perhaps you could consider it an asset. Until then, it's just another expense (think expensive lawyer costs, strung out for years by deep-pocketed Google!) without ANY certainty of pay-out.
    10-24-17 02:10 PM
  5. stlabrat's Avatar
    Don't worry - I'm sure there are several things I missed too that should be added to this list.



    I'm sure you could find SOMEONE - but you'd have to make the Golden Parachute pretty hefty, and know that the person you hired was really just there for the retirement cash. LOL.
    how about $1 per year? Mike L was willing to do it at the time... (don't think he can and willing to do it now... he sold his shares). IMHO, BB is only one still can do it if the strong leadership there... with Gov program still out there, not possible to license BB10 to reveal all the hardware/software security features to 3rd party. At current stage, Chen is not going to do it. therefore, it is dead like a rock (no martian life inside).
    10-24-17 02:30 PM
  6. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    The most valuable asset BlackBerry has might be its unfiled antitrust lawsuit against Google. Instead, Chen criticized the tiny app developers for not making BB10 versions of everything.

    Posted via CB10
    How many tiny app and not so tiny developers survived Microsoft becoming a monopoly, especially when MS cosied up to them - then dumped them and produced a competitive product that killed them? Chen may have been perhaps warning the tiny app developers about putting all those eggs in one basket, even though the short term costs would have been higher....the longer term costs may prove fatal (yet to unveil itself...). Yes every tiny app developer dreams of being bought out....but the news is, it doesn't happen for most, and then the marketplace disappears altogether.
    10-24-17 02:30 PM
  7. stlabrat's Avatar
    if chen want app, sdk is a good place to start... (not heard a thing about update of sdk, breath some AI life into the sdk might be a better start... you might get rid of the tiny app developer).
    10-24-17 02:38 PM
  8. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    How so? BlackBerry could have happily continued to use AOSP as long as it wanted to, without restriction.

    It was BlackBerry who approached Google and requested OHA certification for BlackBerry Android so that they could offer the Play Store to its customers.
    Surrendering to a virtual monopoly, doesn't mean there wasn't an overwhelming monopolistic influence that hastened and required that decision for Brand survival. But the question is, is there recourse available to BB for the formation of the consortium of competitors against the likes of BB. The fact that BB once dominated the marketplace doesn't compare, it did so as an individual corporation, and not as a consortium or cartel, and the facts are that the feature phones hugely outsold BB smartphones in its heyday, but when those feature phone manufacturers turned their attention to the smartphone , they did so in what appears to be a cartel like nature (OHA).
    10-24-17 02:46 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Surrendering to a virtual monopoly, doesn't mean there wasn't an overwhelming monopolistic influence that hastened and required that decision for Brand survival. But the question is, is there recourse available to BB for the formation of the consortium of competitors against the likes of BB. The fact that BB once dominated the marketplace doesn't compare, it did so as an individual corporation, and not as a consortium or cartel, and the facts are that the feature phones hugely outsold BB smartphones in its heyday, but when those feature phone manufacturers turned their attention to the smartphone , they did so in what appears to be a cartel like nature (OHA).
    The fact is, the Android model worked, and BlackBerry's didn't. Apple's model worked, and Microsoft's didn't.

    Some people made better decisions than others. I hate the whole notion of punishing the victors and rewarding the losers.
    10-24-17 02:58 PM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    The fact is, the Android model worked, and BlackBerry's didn't. Apple's model worked, and Microsoft's didn't.

    Some people made better decisions than others. I hate the whole notion of punishing the victors and rewarding the losers.
    Next time you are in an ally or park and 5-7 burly guys gang up on you....I'll remember your thoughts on the matter.
    10-24-17 03:15 PM
  11. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Next time you are in an ally or park and 5-7 burly guys gang up on you....I'll remember your thoughts on the matter.
    Bring a Glock. Take out their leader. The rest will scamper away. 😀
    10-24-17 03:23 PM
  12. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Bring a Glock. Take out their leader. The rest will scamper away.
    ...maybe in the US - the rest have to carry a BlackBerry and call security, after they take the beating (lol), unless they see it coming.
    ...and carrying two devices while out on a stroll is a bit cumbersome.....and in the heat of the moment, there's always that confusion as to which device you are pulling out to do the point and shoot with.

    I'll have to go over the Corporate Governence rules again, but I think a Glock in the Coorporate Suite doesn't go over too well , unless they've changed the regulations.
    10-24-17 03:50 PM
  13. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Bring a Glock. Take out their leader. The rest will scamper away. 😀
    ...maybe in the US - the rest have to carry a BlackBerry and call security, after they take the beating (lol), unless they see it coming.
    ...and carrying two devices while out on a stroll is a bit cumbersome.....and in the heat of the moment, there's always that confusion as to which device you are pulling out to do the point and shoot with.

    I'll have to go over the Corporate Governence rules again, but I think a Glock in the Coorporate Suite doesn't go over too well , unless they've changed the regulations.
    10-24-17 03:50 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    ...maybe in the US - the rest have to carry a BlackBerry and call security, after they take the beating (lol), unless they see it coming.
    ...and carrying two devices while out on a stroll is a bit cumbersome.....and in the heat of the moment, there's always that confusion as to which device you are pulling out to do the point and shoot with.

    I'll have to go over the Corporate Governence rules again, but I think a Glock in the Coorporate Suite doesn't go over too well , unless they've changed the regulations.
    Goes over fine here. What's your point?
    10-24-17 06:26 PM
  15. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Goes over fine here. What's your point?
    I get the sentiment...we were speaking in metaphors though (mostly to the 3rd point, the other two were just an attempt at humor). I'm sure glocking Larry Page might get you publicity - but wouldn't help BB's recourse or your own. Speaking literally...Living in Texas, as an example, I would probably be packing as Texans do, but alas I have to abide by my local yockle ruler's rules, else I'd find myself in a cell with a tower but without a phone signal.
    10-24-17 07:39 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I get the sentiment...we were speaking in metaphors though (mostly to the 3rd point, the other two were just an attempt at humor). I'm sure glocking Larry Page might get you publicity - but wouldn't help BB's recourse or your own. Speaking literally...Living in Texas, as an example, I would probably be packing as Texans do, but alas I have to abide by my local yockle ruler's rules, else I'd find myself in a cell with a tower but without a phone signal.
    I'd let em keep your BB10 devices but I'd come bail you out. With conditions that you must keep BlackBerry KEYone on continually like ankle bracelet... LOL
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-24-17 07:48 PM
  17. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I'd let em keep your BB10 devices but I'd come bail you out. With conditions that you must keep BlackBerry KEYone on continually like ankle bracelet... LOL
    I dunno, at that point I might just opt for staying in Motion (lol).
    10-24-17 07:59 PM
  18. stlabrat's Avatar
    Good you did some research (rim)

    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-25-17 07:51 AM
  19. glwerry's Avatar
    if chen want app, sdk is a good place to start... (not heard a thing about update of sdk, breath some AI life into the sdk might be a better start... you might get rid of the tiny app developer).
    Why would he want apps? BB10 is DEAD.
    There would just be NO POINT in reviving / updating sdk ...
    10-25-17 10:10 AM
  20. ezubeBB2013's Avatar
    The legal definition of monopoly does not mean a complete monopoly. For example, Microsoft was determined to be a monopoly in 2003 or so and Apple existed. It was only because the Bush White House backed off and gave them a sweetheart deal that Microsoft did not get slammed.

    Also, just wait a year or two and you will see that something will happen to google just like it already has in Europe. People are already waking up as to the problems with Big Tech.

    Posted via CB10
    They're waking up but isn't it a bit late! There is only really either Android or iOs. Windows and the others are might not be around much longer either.

    What kills me is that in everything else people want choice but with mobile phones everyone is happy with slabs and 2 operating systems. Let's just have 2 types of beers, chocolates, coffee the list endless! There would be a huge outcry and people would scream 'this is 2017'!

    Ironically Google, Apple and other tech giants probably know more about your life and movements than anyone in your life! On top of that they're willing to sell this data to the highest bidder and to whoever they wish. On top of that they pay bugger all taxes.

    They got rich thanks to the masses who are their 'volunteer' salespeople! In return you get Apps you don't really need!




    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-25-17 06:31 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    They're waking up but isn't it a bit late! There is only really either Android or iOs. Windows and the others are might not be around much longer either.

    What kills me is that in everything else people want choice but with mobile phones everyone is happy with slabs and 2 operating systems. Let's just have 2 types of beers, chocolates, coffee the list endless! There would be a huge outcry and people would scream 'this is 2017'!

    Ironically Google, Apple and other tech giants probably know more about your life and movements than anyone in your life! On top of that they're willing to sell this data to the highest bidder and to whoever they wish. On top of that they pay bugger all taxes.

    They got rich thanks to the masses who are their 'volunteer' salespeople! In return you get Apps you don't really need!




    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    I need them. Worth trade off said the 99%. Quit being a 1%er.....
    10-25-17 06:47 PM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I need them. Worth trade off said the 99%. Quit being a 1%er.....
    Wasn't BB always a 1%er (in terms of global sales)?

    Though it does reminds me of the people needing to buy Oxygen (apps) in Arnie's 1990 Total Recall. Gasp!!!
    Wasn't that supposed to be a virtual reality vacation he was going on too?


    BB10 OSaaS Business Model for BlackBerry?-total-recall-2-fixed.jpg
    10-25-17 07:26 PM
  23. DonHB's Avatar
    Keep in mind those 150 people don't have to do nearly as much heavy lifting of making drivers for all the different hardware out there, and they don't need Qualcomm to commit resources to helping them in that. All because they use Linux.

    BB and Microsoft did (and Apple does) something much more ambitious. Those are the only 3 companies I can think of that don't use Linux. WebOS was Linux also.
    Is this inaccurate? It says Qualcomm open sources their kernel and its drivers? Or is this that suggests that Google CDD and CTS determines what is worth it for Qualcomm to invest in making Open Source?
    10-25-17 07:54 PM
  24. DonHB's Avatar
    You'd need to figure out what your cost per phone would need to be just to break even if you sold 2,000, 5,000, 10,000, or 20.000 phones. It is worth knowing that SilentCircle's Blackphone only sold 20,000 devices (they anticipated sales of 250,000) before they went bankrupt. Remember, that's an Android-based phone that has access to the full Android app & services ecosystem.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasb.../#26bd1ffb3b30

    If you do the math (an estimate of R&D costs, which, as pointed out, would need to be paid for up-front), plus the costs of the hardware, and divide by the likely number of buyers, you will see YOUR cost per phone. Then you have to figure out what you'd have to charge users.

    All of that is moot, though, since BB would have to agree to do all of this, since they own QNX and BB10 and it isn't open-source. And given that BB not only never made a single cent in profit on BB10, but, rather, LOST around $10 BILLION, I doubt you'd find them very motivated to spend anything further. That math I mentioned should tell you why.
    It's interesting that in the article you quote it was suggested that the cost of inventory caused the company's financial difficulties that ended it in bankruptcy. Not, according to the company's executives, investment in software R&D.

    Much like what happened with the Z10. It is also what I had suspected all along.

    That it was up front cost of hardware not software which was BB10's money pit. Apple's Tim Cook made his mark by managing inventory which includes sourcing parts that impact incidentals like design.

    So, with almost all Android devices being rootable the question ibecomes:

    How software compatible are devices made by different manufacturers that use the same chipmaker's SoC and how much backward software compatibility is designed into each subsequent generation of a chipmaker's SoC?

    I suspect much more than people here suggest.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-25-17 08:31 PM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    Is this inaccurate? It says Qualcomm open sources their kernel and its drivers? Or is this that suggests that Google CDD and CTS determines what is worth it for Qualcomm to invest in making Open Source?
    I don’t think all of the drivers are open source. The GPU drivers I think are free, but still distributed as binaries.

    And much of the kernel and driver work is done by Google, especially after they kicked off butter. This was the problem that Chen tried to explain about BB10 drivers. At the end of the day, someone had to bear the cost of the QNX/BB10 drivers for each new SoC. Whether Qualcomm did the work or BB did a lot of it, it is a fixed cost that you can’t sustain with such low volume. This is a problem Sailfish doesn’t need to worry about because Qualcomm and Google and others do all of that for them for free.

    BB could have enjoyed the same advantage, but they stupidly decided to go buy QNX and try to jam that square peg into their round hole instead.

    Apple has to do of all this work themselves, too, but they can amortize that over a lot of very expensive phones that they sell.

    And yes, you’re right that Google drives some of Qualcomm’s decisions about what drivers to write and support, but that’s natural when you consider how many of Qualcomm’s biggest customers are using buying their SoC’s specifically to run Android.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 10-26-17 at 12:58 AM.
    10-26-17 12:39 AM
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