- Perhaps but BlackBerry was never known to use the latest and greatest in their devices and that was certainly the case with BB10 (the Passport being the exception).
Either way I think there's still enough evidence out there to show hardware was still a going concern for them, albeit one with far less priority and importance to software. I don't see why they would still close their devices division if they had met their sales targets.10-31-17 06:37 PMLike 0 - Perhaps but BlackBerry was never known to use the latest and greatest in their devices and that was certainly the case with BB10 (the Passport being the exception).
Either way I think there's still enough evidence out there to show hardware was still a going concern for them, albeit one with far less priority and importance to software. I don't see why the devices division would still be shutdown had they met their sales targets.
But we can still be friends!Last edited by conite; 10-31-17 at 06:52 PM.
10-31-17 06:39 PMLike 0 - Perhaps but BlackBerry was never known to use the latest and greatest in their devices and that was certainly the case with BB10 (the Passport being the exception).
Either way I think there's still enough evidence out there to show hardware was still a going concern for them, albeit one with far less priority and importance to software. I don't see why they would still close their devices division if they had met their sales targets.
If Chen had settled the purchase commitments in cash, it would have cost hundreds of millions more. Instead he made weak lemonade out of the lemons, made some devices for diehard fans, got the fans to essentially pay for the purchase commitments for him, and then got out. He did this with no marketing spend, and very little incremental risk since he owed that money to the same suppliers anyway.10-31-17 06:56 PMLike 0 - My thesis has been that they were plenty smart enough to know without a shadow of a doubt that they would NEVER be able to re-float that boat. The numbers weren't even close - they were in fact utterly staggering in the opposite direction. I still strongly believe they were just trying to manage a soft landing.
But we can still be friends!
But I agree in that the odds were against them, I think even if they stabilized at 5 or 10 million units a year the expectations of many on this forum still wouldn't be met by the type of company that emerged.
Because they had burned down the purchase commitments. Once those commitments were satisfied, they no longer needed to be in the hardware business. So then he pulled the plug at the right time.
If Chen had settled the purchase commitments in cash, it would have cost hundreds of millions more. Instead he made weak lemonade out of the lemons, made some devices for diehard fans, got the fans to essentially pay for the purchase commitments for him, and then got out. He did this with no marketing spend, and very little incremental risk since he owed that money to the same suppliers anyway.
They were marketing new devices as well, they hired a new firm just to market the Passport and Classic. The problem is they simply didn't have the resources or reach to touch their consumer level marketing from their heyday. When Heins announced BlackBerry was leaving the consumer market it had big ramifications for BlackBerry that I'm sure impacted their ability to sell and support devices moving forward. Here's an example from one of their biggest markets,
But there were also other blunders. He said former BlackBerry CEO Thorsten Heins's comment that they would exit the consumer market to focus on enterprise customers landed in Indonesia – where the majority of customers were consumers – like "a bombshell" and "destroyed them" here, creating anxiety among both wireless carrier clients and Mr. Cobham's own employees
Chen was basically tasked with rebuilding their devices division after becoming CEO (and he did). That's a lot of time and resources to invest in a division they only wanted to keep for another year or so.10-31-17 07:39 PMLike 0 - Because after the purchase commitments were done, there was no point. Hardware is extemely capital intensive. With the inherent disadvantages that BB has (lack of scale and deteriorating brand) at best they could maybe break even occasionally. For that big win, you tie up a lot of capital. That’s a very poor return.
Plus to continue they would have had to write new purchase commitments and pile up new inventory (since suppliers won’t work with you otherwise) which would be digging entirely new financial holes.
Other much better uses of capital are investing in their software businesses, buying back stock (also known as giving shareholders their money back), or even just leaving it in the bank.10-31-17 08:22 PMLike 0 - So @DonHB, have we finally put this to bed?
Do we agree that Chen was hired specifically to save the company from imminent bankruptcy by shuttering devices after burning through commitments and contracts?
Do we agree that not one more dollar or second was going to be put into BB10 (or any other nonsense based on Neutrino) that wasn't absolutely necessary to complete said goal?
NO. He won't agree.10-31-17 08:56 PMLike 0 - Because after the purchase commitments were done, there was no point. Hardware is extemely capital intensive. With the inherent disadvantages that BB has (lack of scale and deteriorating brand) at best they could maybe break even occasionally. For that big win, you tie up a lot of capital. That’s a very poor return.
Plus to continue they would have had to write new purchase commitments and pile up new inventory (since suppliers won’t work with you otherwise) which would be digging entirely new financial holes.
Other much better uses of capital are investing in their software businesses, buying back stock (also known as giving shareholders their money back), or even just leaving it in the bank.10-31-17 10:53 PMLike 0 -
We also should keep in mind that BlackBerry unlike other OEM's (who only sell hardware) differed by being able to provide enterprise customers with devices and software to manage them (and I think they might have touted that at some point too).10-31-17 11:37 PMLike 0 - What you wrote about, that they no longer have to deal with hardware and the risks associated with it.
I think this is one to watch, just how much did hardware support EMM software? I guess we'll have an idea after a few quarters. To BlackBerry's credit, there's more than just EMM behind their software push.10-31-17 11:59 PMLike 0 - What you wrote about, that they no longer have to deal with hardware and the risks associated with it.
I think this is one to watch, just how much did hardware support EMM software? I guess we'll have an idea after a few quarters. To BlackBerry's credit, there's more than just EMM behind their software push.
BlackBerry UEM still has the second highest market share, and didn't even notice the demise of BB10.11-01-17 06:07 AMLike 0 - "Easily, the most likely reason is Apple's self-driving car project, which the QNX team has been working on for years. It almost certainly has zero to do with phones - Apple is doing just fine there by themselves." - it is certainly not true... there are enough ex-BB phone guys down to CA complain about how expansive the housing market and baby sitter, private school cost that hurt your ears...it is very interesting so much argument about how BB ship sink, even with lost signal published years ago... (not agree some of it... look like the authors prefer to interviewed mouth piece, almost none of the workbees... so the fault were market runs away, etc.etc. ). too big of elephent for people blind folded to assess... I am afraid the lesson will never learned... Sad BB case study.i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.11-01-17 08:55 AMLike 1
- "Easily, the most likely reason is Apple's self-driving car project, which the QNX team has been working on for years. It almost certainly has zero to do with phones - Apple is doing just fine there by themselves." - it is certainly not true... there are enough ex-BB phone guys down to CA complain about how expansive the housing market and baby sitter, private school cost that hurt your ears...it is very interesting so much argument about how BB ship sink, even with lost signal published years ago... (not agree some of it... look like the authors prefer to interviewed mouth piece, almost none of the workbees... so the fault were market runs away, etc.etc. ). too big of elephent for people blind folded to assess... I am afraid the lesson will never learned... Sad BB case study.11-01-17 09:27 AMLike 0
- Op, all hope may not be lost in BB10. just look at sony, come back 10 years... you might have BB13 (most likely, not backward compatible).. it will be pricy... no open source, possibly with few extra bones - new features with AI -hopefully, use soul machine with Baby X ;-). https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...e-release-date11-01-17 09:36 AMLike 0
- Op, all hope may not be lost in BB10. just look at sony, come back 10 years... you might have BB13 (most likely, not backward compatible).. it will be pricy... no open source, possibly with few extra bones - new features with AI -hopefully, use soul machine with Baby X ;-). https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...e-release-date11-01-17 09:42 AMLike 0
- It's not necessarily their marketshare but if any EMM customers had chosen BlackBerry specifically for BB10 or BB Android hardware and if that's the case, how competitive can they remain against OEM's like Samsung that also provide EMM?11-01-17 09:55 AMLike 0
-
I would suspect the vast majority of BlackBerry UEM users don't even know BB10 ever existed.
https://www.gartner.com/doc/reprints...t=170824&st=sb11-01-17 09:57 AMLike 0 - Because according to most rating systems, BlackBerry UEM is the best solution currently on the market.
I would suspect the vast majority of BlackBerry UEM users don't even know BB10 ever existed.
https://www.gartner.com/doc/reprints...t=170824&st=sb11-01-17 10:10 AMLike 0 -
A buddy who is in the Hamilton (Ontario) area shared an advertisement - a developer had building lots with frontages of 40, 45 or 50 feet (small) by "up to" 134 feet deep, "starting in the mid-700,000s! I realize that's in "rubber funny" money, but if Ontario is that expensive, what would California be?
It staggers the imagination - I can see why people are giving up on owning a house!11-01-17 10:20 AMLike 0 - I live in a very remote, rural area.
A buddy who is in the Hamilton (Ontario) area shared an advertisement - a developer had building lots with frontages of 40, 45 or 50 feet (small) by "up to" 134 feet deep, "starting in the mid-700,000s! I realize that's in "rubber funny" money, but if Ontario is that expensive, what would California be?
It staggers the imagination - I can see why people are giving up on owning a house!11-01-17 10:42 AMLike 0 -
- 11-01-17 11:08 AMLike 0
- 11-01-17 11:31 AMLike 0
- If you really want to know what tech has done to California real estate, hop on Zillow.com and look at Cupertino (Apple), Mountain View (Google), or Menlo Park (Facebook), or any of the surrounding cities. Tract homes from the 60s go for $1.4M (NOT rubber funny money) and up. I saw a 400 sq-ft shack selling for $600k, which is what 2000 sq-ft 15 year old houses sell for in the distant suburbs (3 hour commute each way in traffic, though).
So, yeah.11-01-17 11:50 AMLike 0 - If you really want to know what tech has done to California real estate, hop on Zillow.com and look at Cupertino (Apple), Mountain View (Google), or Menlo Park (Facebook), or any of the surrounding cities. Tract homes from the 60s go for $1.4M (NOT rubber funny money) and up. I saw a 400 sq-ft shack selling for $600k, which is what 2000 sq-ft 15 year old houses sell for in the distant suburbs (3 hour commute each way in traffic, though).
So, yeah.
Posted via CB1011-04-17 09:11 AMLike 0
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