[Chuck Finley69]

I remember when Apple had to fight tooth and nail for shelf space at Fry's. They understood marketing. They got the word out with their designs and I mean before the iPhone.

Chen was like the mirror image of Jobs/Apple. And I remember Chen trying to sell the Passport on TV (when he ran out of stock for four months). Consumers had no idea Blackberry was not going to be around to support BB10 or not. Few people think about these things. They presume a name brand will support its products.

Posted via CB10

First of all, BlackBerry Limited was completely broke and had no cash to advertise when Chen was hired to exit mobile.

When Apple was fighting to get shelf footage, consumers didn’t have smartphones and ecosystems fleshed out 2007-2010 timeframe.

In 2013, Microsoft had difficulty with 1000x the cash buying developers for ecosystem and mobile displays and still failed. If BB10 was the solution, Microsoft could and would have just bought the whole company for pennies on the dollar.

The mobile industry and consumers rejected anything but Android/iOS before the planned 2012 introduction of BB10 which itself was then delayed until 2013 anyway.

When the Passport was introduced, everything BlackBerry was already rejected and BlackBerry was already leaving the mobile business. When the mobile industry rejected Microsoft level of money at that point, what does 1/1000 of the resources going to matter? Like emptying sand from the ocean with shovel.

[FortressBB10]

First of all, BlackBerry Limited was completely broke and had no cash to advertise when Chen was hired to exit mobile.

When Apple was fighting to get shelf footage, consumers didn’t have smartphones and ecosystems fleshed out 2007-2010 timeframe.

In 2013, Microsoft had difficulty with 1000x the cash buying developers for ecosystem and mobile displays and still failed. If BB10 was the solution, Microsoft could and would have just bought the whole company for pennies on the dollar.

The mobile industry and consumers rejected anything but Android/iOS before the planned 2012 introduction of BB10 which itself was then delayed until 2013 anyway.

When the Passport was introduced, everything BlackBerry was already rejected and BlackBerry was already leaving the mobile business. When the mobile industry rejected Microsoft level of money at that point, what does 1/1000 of the resources going to matter? Like emptying sand from the ocean with shovel.

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed. And Apple was a tiny company. I disagree that Chen was doing TV appearances to sell leftover inventory built by Heins. He hadn't even made the phones because they sold so quickly with the initial batch. Then you couldn't buy one for months.

I've read your guy's take on it many times. I just see it differently. I was alive then too. I saw the whole thing too.

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed. And Apple was a tiny company.

Apple was a bigger company in 2006 (the year before the iPhone debuted) than BlackBerry has ever been.

[conite]

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed. And Apple was a tiny company. I disagree that Chen was doing TV appearances to sell leftover inventory built by Heins. He hadn't even made the phones because they sold so quickly with the initial batch. Then you couldn't buy one for months.

I've read your guy's take on it many times. I just see it differently. I was alive then too. I saw the whole thing too.

Posted via CB10

Apple had many, many millions of iPod and iPod Touch users.

[Chuck Finley69]

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed. And Apple was a tiny company. I disagree that Chen was doing TV appearances to sell leftover inventory built by Heins. He hadn't even made the phones because they sold so quickly with the initial batch. Then you couldn't buy one for months.

I've read your guy's take on it many times. I just see it differently. I was alive then too. I saw the whole thing too.

Posted via CB10

Apple wasn't a tiny company since Y2K and the inventory was built after Chen joined to meet legal requirements. The whole smartphone industry OS wars happened and ended in the six (6) years before the introduction of BB10 and it's almost immediate flameout.

All the facts are public information as SEC filings, so it's not open to interpretation. The Passport was a sales failure because everyday consumers rejected it's weird shape form. All the carriers supported the Q10 and Classic but all but AT&T rejected the Passport and there' wasn't a shortage because AT&T required one for every corporate store and struggled to unload them with AT&T carrier partnered campaign.

The manager of AT&T corporate store at time was a friend of mine. He said that other than diehards like me, even regular BlackBerry customers were picking the Classic overwhelmingly. BlackBerry along with AT&T would have lost much less if simply giving Passports away to anyone interested. Now that's a marketing campaign.

[pdr733]

Would not want to rehash the sterile BB10 arguments instead I have a question for bb10adopter : how does the battery of your iPhone SE hold up when you use it as a hotspot? Before I bought it I read a lot of complaints that it's battery is to small. Due to the pandemic I now mostly use it at home but when I will need to use more mobile data I considered using the Motorola I have with my second number as a hotspot instead.
Or are you using the IPhone mostly connected to AC power?

[eshropshire]

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed. And Apple was a tiny company. I disagree that Chen was doing TV appearances to sell leftover inventory built by Heins. He hadn't even made the phones because they sold so quickly with the initial batch. Then you couldn't buy one for months.

I've read your guy's take on it many times. I just see it differently. I was alive then too. I saw the whole thing too.

Posted via CB10

Sorry, I have been in the business side of Tech for over 30 years. Apple has always been a much bigger company than BlackBerry. Apple stumbled in the late 90s until Steve Jobs came back. Apple bought his Next company and transformed Mac with taking the Next OS and making into OS10. As someone who worked on Next software development I can easily say it was am amazing OS. The iMac, iPods and MacBooks put Apple into the next level company. Apple completely changes the Music industry. I could go on, but Apple in 2006 was a very strong and financially growing company. How you can say tbey were not big before the iPhone is beyond me.

Apple revenue in 2006 the year before the iPhone was released was $19.3 Billion. In comparison Blackberry's revenue in 2006 was $2 billion.

[anon(5597702)]

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed.

Posted via CB10

I think this statement is misworded. All products aren't known about before they exist.

[FortressBB10]

Apple wasn't a tiny company since Y2K and the inventory was built after Chen joined to meet legal requirements. The whole smartphone industry OS wars happened and ended in the six (6) years before the introduction of BB10 and it's almost immediate flameout.

All the facts are public information as SEC filings, so it's not open to interpretation. The Passport was a sales failure because everyday consumers rejected it's weird shape form. All the carriers supported the Q10 and Classic but all but AT&T rejected the Passport and there' wasn't a shortage because AT&T required one for every corporate store and struggled to unload them with AT&T carrier partnered campaign.

The manager of AT&T corporate store at time was a friend of mine. He said that other than diehards like me, even regular BlackBerry customers were picking the Classic overwhelmingly. BlackBerry along with AT&T would have lost much less if simply giving Passports away to anyone interested. Now that's a marketing campaign.

You can check these boards about the lack of Passports to sell. Give me a break!

Posted via CB10

[conite]

No one knew about the iPhone before it existed. And Apple was a tiny company. I disagree that Chen was doing TV appearances to sell leftover inventory built by Heins. He hadn't even made the phones because they sold so quickly with the initial batch. Then you couldn't buy one for months.

I've read your guy's take on it many times. I just see it differently. I was alive then too. I saw the whole thing too.

Posted via CB10

Chen nailed the door shut on BB10 within 2 months of starting with BlackBerry in November of 2013.

The Passport components were already committed to by then.

Chen had to burn through $millions of parts over the next 2 years.

Prem hired a SOFTWARE turn-around specialist for a reason.

From Globe and Mail interview in 2018:

"Chen was named CEO in November 2013. One of his first tasks as chief executive was to announce a record $4.4-billion (U.S.) quarterly loss. But, unlike his predecessors, Chen moved decisively, approaching the challenge like a battlefield surgeon: The patient was profusely bleeding red ink, so the first priority was getting enough money on the balance sheet to prevent immediate death. Chen focused on selling assets and shoring up relationships with suppliers that were owed millions. But he knew doing everything at once "would be too much of a shock to the system," he says. "I remember when I cancelled a number of phones under development, that was already a shock. People said, 'What do we do now?'" Chen knew from the beginning the handset business was a dead end. But the transition had to be gradual, because handset revenue was a necessary cushion as the company built its enterprise software business. And it had to be carefully managed so as not to undermine confidence in the BlackBerry phone product line."

[Chuck Finley69]

You can check these boards about the lack of Passports to sell. Give me a break!

Posted via CB10

It had to do with small quantity initially produced. I own two AT&T Passport and SE Passport, however, I can admit that people admiring the device are really just being polite otherwise, they would have purchased one. We're standing in the AT&T store where it had prime location next to flagship Android display.

[eshropshire]

You can check these boards about the lack of Passports to sell. Give me a break!

Posted via CB10

Just checked eBay looks like a lot of Passports for sale. Even can buy Passports on Amazon.

[FortressBB10]

People being polite? Haha! A woman checking me in at a drive-thru COVID test center standing outside my car? Uh, yeah, she felt she had to make polite conversation.

2018 Globe and Mail story? Nice time to make up self-serving history if you're the CEO of a husk of a company with no revenue or core business. Why would he care about relationships with suppliers if he's leaving the business? Who cares?

I watched Chen try over and over again with smartphones, including Android. He hoped it would make it, and that's what he told the public. He wasn't lying.


Posted via CB10

[conite]

I watched Chen try over and over again with smartphones, including Android. He hoped it would make it, and that's what he told the public. He wasn't lying.
Posted via CB10

Those of use with some insider info knew all this long before the Globe and Mail article. The BlackBerry BoD and Prem wanted devices gone and hired a software guy to make it happen.

Chen had to hold enough revenue to complete the transition. If he had publicly declared the demise of devices in 2013, the company would have gone bankrupt immediately.

One of the first things he did in 2014 was turf most of the BB10 development team. OS 10.3 beta was completed by March of that year, and essentially marked the end of any significant development.

In 2015 they had burned though supplier commitments on BB10, but still needed more time to complete the Good integration with BlackBerry UEM. Ron Louks had a low-risk, low-cost way of extending devices for a bit longer with Android. It also turned into something they had hoped to successfully licence once they could finally dump the device boat anchor after completing the transition.

Nor did Chen ever "lie". He just made public the knowingly impossible goals that sales would need to achieve to stay a going concern.

[FortressBB10]

Those of use with some insider info knew all this long before the Globe and Mail article. The BlackBerry BoD and Prem wanted devices gone and hired a software guy to make it happen.

Chen had to hold enough revenue to complete the transition. If he had publicly declared the demise of devices in 2013, the company would have gone bankrupt immediately.

One of the first things he did in 2014 was turf most of the BB10 development team. OS 10.3 beta was completed by March of that year, and essentially marked the end of any significant development.

In 2015 they had burned though supplier commitments on BB10, but still needed more time to complete the Good integration with BlackBerry UEM. Ron Louks had a low-risk, low-cost way of extending devices for a bit longer with Android. It also turned into something they had hoped to successfully licence once they could finally dump the device boat anchor after completing the transition.

Nor did Chen ever "lie". He just made public the knowingly impossible goals that sales would need to achieve to stay a going concern.

So the suppliers were the same for the Passport as the Priv? Who were these suppliers with the commitments? What were the commitments?

10 million then 5 million was Chen's target. Not unrealistic with decent marketing.

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

So the suppliers were the same for the Passport as the Priv? Who were these suppliers with the commitments? What were the commitments?

10 million then 5 million was Chen's target. Not unrealistic with decent marketing.

Posted via CB10

Sure, but unrealistic for any OEM that lacked scale and economic resources. BlackBerry Limited was a company 1% the size and scale of it's competitors and industry players.

That’s why TCL licensed the brand and discovered it wasn’t even just that. It found the BlackBerry name and PKB association to have such a negative connotation, it cancelled the licensing agreement early.

[conite]

So the suppliers were the same for the Passport as the Priv?

Who were these suppliers with the commitments? What were the commitments?

Read my post regarding the Priv. You must have misunderstood.

Qualcomm was the primary supplier as far as we can tell. You might recall that BlackBerry was able to sue for some relief and won $800 million from them in 2017.

10 million then 5 million was Chen's target. Not unrealistic with decent marketing.

You can't market something that no one wants - particularly when developers are squarely against you.

BlackBerry had plenty of data telling them that throwing good advertising money after bad would be pointless.

[FortressBB10]

Read my post regarding the Priv. You must have misunderstood.

Qualcomm was the primary supplier as far as we can tell. You might recall that BlackBerry was able to sue for some relief and won $800 million from them in 2017.



You can't market something that no one wants - particularly when developers are squarely against you.

BlackBerry had plenty of data telling them that throwing good advertising money after bad would be pointless.

Sorry, I don't buy it. And those are all opinions. Plenty of data? Really? Chen paid for lots of reliable data? How much data did Chen have before he launched the Priv? How much data did Chen have when he NAMED the Priv?

Posted via CB10

[ppeters914]

Really? We're doing this again?

[conite]

Sorry, I don't buy it. And those are all opinions. Plenty of data? Really? Chen paid for lots of reliable data? How much data did Chen have before he launched the Priv? How much data did Chen have when he NAMED the Priv?

Posted via CB10

Well, our insider info was later confirmed almost note for note by the Globe and Mail interview.

If you have some other reputable source, other than your own gut, that tells another story, then let's have it.

[pdr733]

Really? We're doing this again? [IMG=500x375]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210316/195c86c696935dd4d63f9372b44c423e.gif[/url]

I start to believe that maybe it's easier to convince hardcore QAnon'ers that what they believe in is BS , than some of the BB10 "enthuasiasts" about the (lack of) business viability of their beloved OS.
/sarcasm

[elfabio80]

I start to believe that maybe it's easier to convince hardcore QAnon'ers that what they believe in is BS , than some of the BB10 "enthuasiasts" about the (lack of) business viability of their beloved OS.
/sarcasm

...oh my god, one Chenner. Great!
How is your Dear Leader doing?

Sarcasm!

[conite]

...oh my god, one Chenner. Great!
How is your Dear Leader doing?

Sarcasm!

You do realise how using a Korean term for a Hong Kong born person comes off, right?

[elfabio80]

You do realise how using a Korean term for a Hong Kong born person comes off, right?

I think you missed the word sarcasm I wrote under my comment.
Anyway my comment btw was linked to the immens admiration almost religious some people have here for Chen vs the BB10 enthusiastic and the funny thing that you may have or had another view about the BB and here you get immediately summoned if BB10 user/lover.
I hope my comment is not here blasphemous for some of you.

[conite]

Anyway my comment btw was linked to the immens admiration almost religious some people have here for Chen vs the BB10 enthusiastic.

Admiration or resentment of Chen is irrelevant. It's a simple, factual recounting of history - insider information subsequently confirmed by a reputable source. All backed by published financial statements and market reports.