12-09-16 02:44 PM
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  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Folks have been using that "never downloaded stat" for years: http://forums.crackberry.com/general...ml#post7793336

    Even iOS takes heat.
    12-09-16 06:01 AM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There is no common standard to develop apps on desktop OSs and that is after more than 2 decades of mature desktop market. Why? Because the desktop market also has one big OS (Windows), one smaller but premium OS (MacOSX) and the "others" (dozens of linux distros). There is very little incentive to develop such a standard. Having just 2 OSs to support is small enough for the effort not to be big enough and big enough for it to be competition.

    it's not favoritism at all. We, as developers, don't really care which platforms won the "mobile OS war", all that mattered is that some did. It just happened to be iOS and Android, but it could have very well been Windows Phone or BB10.

    The fact that nobody develops for BB10 is that it's too much work for the number of users that BB10 has. Each OS requires approximately the same amount of time to develop any app. Let's say that time is X days. So for two apps which will reach 99% of people , the time consumed is 2X. Now, lets say we have another X time. Where would that time be best spent? To develop an app for an under 1% OS or improve the app for the 99%? It's pretty obvious that it would be better in terms of both costs and potential revenue to develop new features for the 99%.

    You also have to draw a line somewhere. Why is BB10 more important than the other under 1% OSs out there? We can't develop for all.
    For developers, this obviously makes a lot of sense, but for company executives, the issue is more complex. If we assume that all of our customers will download and use either an iOS or Android app to interact with us, we eliminate a lot of the population. That's why the Web is still a universal standard. For example, Starbucks would love all of their customers to use their app, but they won't stop serving people who prefer to use their website, combined with email, to sign up for promotions, reload their cards, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    12-09-16 08:49 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    If we assume that all of our customers will download and use either an iOS or Android app to interact with us, we eliminate a lot of the population.

    Posted via CB10
    Really though? In the last quarter, windows and BB10 dropped below the threshold of any statistical market share.
    12-09-16 11:03 AM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Really though? In the last quarter, windows and BB10 dropped below the threshold of any statistical market share.
    I'm not just talking about BB10 and Windows Mobile, which I agree is a small percentage. I'm talking about people who don't install a company's app but who will browse to their website on their mobile phone. The mobile website has to be useful and engaging for them. For most businesses, the majority of their customers are "casual" ones who don't use their dedicated apps, even if their most loyal customers love them.

    For example, in 2015, 21% of Starbucks' customers used their Mobile app to pay for their purchases, which is the main reason to install their App. But many more than that might use Starbucks' Web site on their phone to find a location, check store hours, etc. And Starbucks works hard to ensure that their mobile site is very usable. Starbucks is one of the most downloaded corporate apps for a non-digital company, but they wouldn't dream of neglecting their customers' mobile Web experience.
    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 12-09-16 at 12:04 PM.
    12-09-16 11:48 AM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    For developers, this obviously makes a lot of sense, but for company executives, the issue is more complex. If we assume that all of our customers will download and use either an iOS or Android app to interact with us, we eliminate a lot of the population. That's why the Web is still a universal standard. For example, Starbucks would love all of their customers to use their app, but they won't stop serving people who prefer to use their website, combined with email, to sign up for promotions, reload their cards, etc.
    It depends on your population. In our case, 99.7% of our mobile customers use Android or iOS.

    Of course we have lot of customers who don't use our mobile services and prefer to bank with PC's or phone or walk into a branch.

    We do still offer mobile web, but usage is falling on that and we can't offer all of the same features on the mobile web because of security limitations and API limitations.
    12-09-16 11:51 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It depends on your population. In our case, 99.7% of our mobile customers use Android or iOS.

    Of course we have lot of customers who don't use our mobile services and prefer to bank with PC's or phone or walk into a branch.

    We do still offer mobile web, but usage is falling on that and we can't offer all of the same features on the mobile web because of security limitations and API limitations.
    Right, I'm not arguing that developers should develop for niche OSes, but business leaders understand that many customers may never download their apps. Maximizing mobile Web usability is still a priority for most companies. Most executives I work with would want all possible functionality on their mobile website, even accepting the security and API limitations.

    You're looking through a developer's lens, but mobile apps are generally only used by a company's most engaged customers. I have never spoken to a single executive who has said, "Forget the mobile website. If a customer won't download our app, we don't want them anyway."

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 12-09-16 at 12:22 PM.
    12-09-16 12:11 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For example, if you look at Amazon. They have put a HUGE effort into redesigning their site for mobile Web browsers. It's easy and pleasant to shop and buy from them without using their apps. Personally, I find the experience superior because there is greater search functionality and more information available that hasn't been ported to their apps.

    I have their shopping app installed, but use my browser instead most of the time.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 12-09-16 at 01:16 PM.
    ominaxe likes this.
    12-09-16 12:17 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    Right, I'm not arguing that developers should develop for niche OSes, but business leaders understand that many customers may never downloads their apps. Maximizing mobile Web usability is still a priority for most companies. Most executives I work with would want all possible functionality on their mobile website, even accepting the security and API limitations.
    You can't wave your hand and make the API and security limitations go away magically.

    We have features in the apps that are impossible to put on the web, or would lead to unreasonable risk to our customers or ourselves . (Mobile deposit for example. Or very high value transfers)

    You're looking through a developer's lens, but mobile apps are generally only used by a company's most engaged customers. I have never spoken to a single executive who has said, "Forget the mobile website. If a customer won't download our app, we don't want them anyway."

    Posted via CB10
    I doubt we'll shut down the mobile web, but it gets less and less investment every year relative to the apps . And feature parity is no longer possible and hasn't been for 2 years at least.

    We won't compromise our apps by limiting them to what can be done inside a browser. So therefore the apps have moved ahead because they can.
    12-09-16 12:18 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You can't wave your hand and make the API and security limitations go away magically.

    We have features in the apps that are impossible to put on the web, or would lead to unreasonable risk to our customers or ourselves . (Mobile deposit for example. Or very high value transfers)



    I doubt we'll shut down the mobile web, but it gets less and less investment every year relative to the apps . And feature parity is no longer possible and hasn't been for 2 years at least.

    We won't compromise our apps by limiting them to what can be done inside a browser.
    Sure, Apps are a fantastic way to drive customer loyalty/retention. But if you think that we've somehow reached the end of technology and that iOS/Android will be the same dominant platforms for the next 10 years that they have been, then prepare to be surprised.

    Just today, it was announced that Qualcomm/Microsoft have committed to full Windows 10 w/ Win32 applications in the ARM chip, which will bring long battery life and LTE to smaller and smaller devices. It's clear that we are headed towards convergence between PCs and mobile phones. And, neither Android or iOS are well equipped to take on the PC market, while Mac OS, Linux and Windows could easily handle mobile communications once the processor technology is small and efficient enough.

    Posted via CB10
    stlabrat likes this.
    12-09-16 12:32 PM
  10. stlabrat's Avatar
    regardless, the app landscape is going to change very soon. App is good for utility usage that like calculator, periodic table, dictionary... etc. that better stay with the unit... App is good for dynamic data search utilize both handset hardware/software and data source from transmission... you only need to download data to populate the right field - not like web to transmit whole page..(waste of resources = bandwidth). gyro, accelerometer, map, locational related app, including future AR...App may not be so good for transmission intensive stuff... movie, on line shopping... it is hard to tailor to all handsets that may have different requirements, OS, version, etc. etc. update are pricy and support are labour intensive. App is critical, for some application: school work or banking... security sometimes is difficult if you need to tailor to different OS, version etc.etc. That portion of the app might on the way out... BB lost the app eco system, with the new world slowly change, it is almost a good time to back to the game if someone has gut to do it...(overall, some of the app are on its way out for sure).
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mobil...-sharda-suresh
    ominaxe likes this.
    12-09-16 12:52 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    Sure, Apps are a fantastic way to drive customer loyalty/retention. But if you think that we've somehow reached the end of technology and that iOS/Android will be the same dominant platforms for the next 10 years that they have been, then prepare to be surprised.
    I have no idea what the dominant platforms will be in 10 years. 6 years ago we didn't have a native Android app here. All I'm saying is that we invest in our iOS and Android apps to be the best experience possible, and we don't limit them just to what the browsers can do. 99% of our users, and 99% of anyone we're trying to attract as new customers all work around with Android phones and iPhones. That's reality and that's why we focus on those platforms.

    Just today, it was announced that Qualcomm/Microsoft have committed to full Windows 10 w/ Win32 applications in the ARM chip, which will bring long battery life and LTE to smaller and smaller devices. It's clear that we are headed towards convergence between PCs and mobile phones. And, neither Android or iOS are well equipped to take on the PC market, while Mac OS, Linux and Windows could easily handle mobile communications once the processor technology is small and efficient enough.
    Ah, we've heard that grand convergence story from Microsoft for many years now. We even built a Win10 app, but then cancelled it before launch when we saw how poorly they were doing in phones. The convergence of phones and laptops and tablets may still happen, but I'm skeptical. How many Windows desktop apps are there which are useable on a 5" touchscreen anyway? Sitting at your laptop is a totally different experience than being on your phone, and I think that's such a big UX difference that you will end up with what are essentially different apps anyway. Building an app that has a "PC, keyboard, big screen, mouse mode" and a "phone, 5in touchscreen, orientation aware mode" is not much different than building 2 different apps.

    And you have other questions like is emulating x86 on ARM really going to work well in practice? What affect will that have on performance and battery optimizations? RT obviously didn't work. Will this new initiative with Qualcomm do better? I think it will be years before we know.

    For now, we have tens of millions of active users on iOS and Android, including many (most?) people who have bought BlackBerry phones lately, and we continue to invest heavily in the experience for those users.
    12-09-16 02:10 PM
  12. stlabrat's Avatar
    saw last year the ios app still counts for 75% money for google ... compare to 25% of droid app for google... and consider how many user on droid and ios? 90% vs 10%... that is sad for droid... https://www.androidpit.com/who-is-ma...y-from-android
    hopefully, BB made some money of the BB-droid... Xiaomi just admit it didn't make penny on their handset... their sales are down (race to the bottom - look like the bottom is to be found in near future)
    12-09-16 02:33 PM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I have no idea what the dominant platforms will be in 10 years. 6 years ago we didn't have a native Android app here. All I'm saying is that we invest in our iOS and Android apps to be the best experience possible, and we don't limit them just to what the browsers can do. 99% of our users, and 99% of anyone we're trying to attract as new customers all work around with Android phones and iPhones. That's reality and that's why we focus on those platforms.



    Ah, we've heard that grand convergence story from Microsoft for many years now. We even built a Win10 app, but then cancelled it before launch when we saw how poorly they were doing in phones. The convergence of phones and laptops and tablets may still happen, but I'm skeptical. How many Windows desktop apps are there which are useable on a 5" touchscreen anyway? Sitting at your laptop is a totally different experience than being on your phone, and I think that's such a big UX difference that you will end up with what are essentially different apps anyway. Building an app that has a "PC, keyboard, big screen, mouse mode" and a "phone, 5in touchscreen, orientation aware mode" is not much different than building 2 different apps.

    And you have other questions like is emulating x86 on ARM really going to work well in practice? What affect will that have on performance and battery optimizations? RT obviously didn't work. Will this new initiative with Qualcomm do better? I think it will be years before we know.

    For now, we have tens of millions of active users on iOS and Android, including many (most?) people who have bought BlackBerry phones lately, and we continue to invest heavily in the experience for those users.
    That's a practical approach for now, certainly. But I suspect that the WWW will be around long after today's iOS and Android devices are the equivalent of 1980s programmable calculators.

    Posted via CB10
    12-09-16 02:44 PM
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