03-29-17 07:18 AM
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  1. Ronindan's Avatar
    digging a hole is never this much fun lol
    Blacklatino likes this.
    02-22-16 10:26 AM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    . It just sad then you realize that BB10 have none/zero creative developers (this doesn't goes for Nemory, don't feel offended) and in mean time of iOS/Android - there are too many..
    So let's think about this:

    • BB came to the scene 5 years late with no new capabilities for developers at all. Not one single new thing that we didn't already have on three other platforms.
    • BB supported 3 or 4 different development platforms and languages including an Android runtime specifically marketed to those developers who wanted to push a few buttons to bring their existing app over. The whole pitch was "take 5 minutes to do this"
    • BB literally had "portathons" to pay developers to quickly port over their existing apps.


    So wasn't BB's whole strategy based on getting "me, too" apps to fill up their store? They got what they asked for, except it was far less than they hoped.
    02-22-16 10:36 AM
  3. early2bed's Avatar
    One of the greatest things about the free market is that nobody has to organize or direct it. When people act in their own self interest some pretty good things can happen. It seems that the OP doesn't believe the free market for apps is working right and his answer is to berate developers into making the apps he wants. I don't think it works that way.
    02-22-16 10:40 AM
  4. Ronindan's Avatar
    The op is not berating bb10 developers but rather he is "influencing" them to make apps that he wants lol. talk about being entitled.
    KermEd and Blacklatino like this.
    02-22-16 10:45 AM
  5. RyanGermann's Avatar
    The problem begins with:

    Blackberry must be honest with all their users and tell us why it is like this.
    It is 'accepted' (not in the sense of approval, but in the sense of common knowledge) that companies will mislead their prospective and current customers for various reasons, most of which contribute to higher revenues.

    Companies feel they have to mislead because customers will often blow negative things out of proportion and discontinue doing business with the company. A CEO can get fired for being too honest if it negatively affects revenues: the Board of Directors are basically telling the CEO to make misleading statements, and there are plenty of people willing to take the job for the big bucks it pays.

    So, BlackBerry "has" to say that they are supporting BB10 because they need to appear to the public like a company that cares about it customers, so they can continue to sell devices to new customers, who will only want to do business with a company that they trust will "do right by them". Ironically, they have to LIE to make people TRUST them.

    So, BlackBerry management "has to" make misleading statements in order to keep their business from eroding further.

    Consumers accept this (not in the sense of common knowledge, but in the terms of tacit approval) by just shrugging and saying "Well, what do you expect? There's nothing you can do about it, so just accept it."

    What you CAN do about it is seek out vendors who minimize this abhorrent behaviour and run their business ethically. Think of the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" and how George Bailey had a relationship with the customers: in that one pivotal scene where there was a run on the S&L, one asshat customer wants his full savings back: George says "can you make do with less for now?" and he just insists on taking the whole amount. Fine, that's his right... but the audience thinks that guy is an asshat.

    George Bailey, an idealist that runs the Bailey Savings & Loan had an honest relationship with these customers. Most of the customers were understanding and were willing to put their faith in the company, because the people running the company had a proven track record of ethical behaviour.

    What, this is just a fairy tale you say!? Yes, it is... but think about who YOU were "rooting for" in that movie, and who you wanted to "lose". YOUR feelings regarding that fictional scenario tell YOU what you should do.

    That's why I'm not going to be doing any business with BlackBerry Ltd. in the future... and certainly don't expect "honesty" from them, unless dishonesty will get them thrown in jail, and even then, it's not the whole truth (i.e. device-by-device or platform-by-platform sales figures, for example.)
    iHadLastBB likes this.
    02-22-16 10:52 AM
  6. conite's Avatar

    Companies feel they have to mislead
    02-22-16 11:00 AM
  7. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    This thread though, is a tad on the confusing side
    Attached Thumbnails App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-1393521_10152696773859998_4323926069157437007_n.png  
    iHadLastBB and baarn like this.
    02-22-16 11:11 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The problem begins with:



    It is 'accepted' (not in the sense of approval, but in the sense of common knowledge) that companies will mislead their prospective and current customers for various reasons, most of which contribute to higher revenues.

    Companies feel they have to mislead because customers will often blow negative things out of proportion and discontinue doing business with the company. A CEO can get fired for being too honest if it negatively affects revenues: the Board of Directors are basically telling the CEO to make misleading statements, and there are plenty of people willing to take the job for the big bucks it pays.

    So, BlackBerry "has" to say that they are supporting BB10 because they need to appear to the public like a company that cares about it customers, so they can continue to sell devices to new customers, who will only want to do business with a company that they trust will "do right by them". Ironically, they have to LIE to make people TRUST them.

    So, BlackBerry management "has to" make misleading statements in order to keep their business from eroding further.

    Consumers accept this (not in the sense of common knowledge, but in the terms of tacit approval) by just shrugging and saying "Well, what do you expect? There's nothing you can do about it, so just accept it."

    What you CAN do about it is seek out vendors who minimize this abhorrent behaviour and run their business ethically. Think of the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" and how George Bailey had a relationship with the customers: in that one pivotal scene where there was a run on the S&L, one asshat customer wants his full savings back: George says "can you make do with less for now?" and he just insists on taking the whole amount. Fine, that's his right... but the audience thinks that guy is an asshat.

    George Bailey, an idealist that runs the Bailey Savings & Loan had an honest relationship with these customers. Most of the customers were understanding and were willing to put their faith in the company, because the people running the company had a proven track record of ethical behaviour.

    What, this is just a fairy tale you say!? Yes, it is... but think about who YOU were "rooting for" in that movie, and who you wanted to "lose". YOUR feelings regarding that fictional scenario tell YOU what you should do.

    That's why I'm not going to be doing any business with BlackBerry Ltd. in the future... and certainly don't expect "honesty" from them, unless dishonesty will get them thrown in jail, and even then, it's not the whole truth (i.e. device-by-device or platform-by-platform sales figures, for example.)
    So who do you do business with? First BlackBerry executives dont care because they're primary obligations are to shareholders. Furthermore, BlackBerry has been honest saying exactly what they're doing. Everybody tries reading into what the company says, to hear what they want to hear and then gets upset when BlackBerry does only what they said in the first place. The company has been saying, maintenance updates and no more bb10 phones this year. By the way, there is no Santa Claus or easter bunny.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-16 08:44 PM
  9. crazy mazy's Avatar
    At Finley, Jc has been pretty honest and open as much as a CEO can be. He said that they will continue to support BB10, but they will not be makiing any new BB10 devices. So that statement is pretty obvious don't you think. He said that the new Priv is on par with Samsung's Knox, as far as security is concerned, but Blackphone may be more secure. Now how is that for honesty. He said that Blackberry will be putting out security, updates monthly. So far so good eh. He said that if he doesn't sell at least 5 million devices to break even he would consider getting out of the device business. So we will see if the Priv is successful. So basically speaking John VChen has been honest. If you think the other guys are more ethical, well boy are you in for a surprise.
    02-23-16 06:47 PM
  10. djdragon's Avatar
    Can any Dev's here comment on this?

    http://www.filearchivehaven.com/2016...ty-developers/

    Z10 10.3.2.2639 via CB10
    KermEd likes this.
    02-23-16 10:03 PM
  11. KermEd's Avatar
    Can any Dev's here comment on this?

    BlackBerry Announces It Cannot Pay 3rd Party Developers ? FileArchiveHaven

    Z10 10.3.2.2639 via CB10
    I don't think it would be fair for me to comment on the article itself I'd like to link to this thread and follow its replies though.

    But, everything is supply and demand. I've always said, John Chen is a technical guy. But none of the problems facing BlackBerry are technical in design, they are all business, marketing and engagement issues. They should have selected a CEO that could "fill that gap".

    I worked under a really motivating director at a previous touch company, and she taught me a valuable lesson. The important thing is to hire people different than you and that fill gaps within a company. If you "just want another technical guy" just like your "other technical guys" then you might as well just ask them to work longer hours. Chen didn't really bring any change, he just continued on the path they were already on. .

    Regarding the core question by the OP - How hard is it to create applications and games for BlackBerry (that are unique and don't rely on a third party service)? The creation is slightly longer in my opinion, about 25-50% extra development time depending on the project due to raising up back-end infrastructure and databases.

    The real challenge is your average user doesn't want to install Mallblatt, Mumblr or Affrait --- because those are made-up words. As a user, encountering something that they have never encountered before - it is gibberish to them without significant marketing effort (effort that runs you a negative ROI). Right or wrong, piggy-backing on popular (and missing) top selling apps, developers are able to reach in and connect to users ... and hopefully later on sell them on new innovations. There are tons of amazing unique apps in BlackBerry World. Its just impossible to see them with only 4 reviews and no sales...
    Killjoyhere likes this.
    02-23-16 10:51 PM
  12. early2bed's Avatar
    A common finding in these app threads is a significant underestimation of the collective resources required to maintain a robust app economy. First, there is the incredible diversity of apps and app developers needed to fill the niche applications that one person could never dream of. Every type of professional has a basket of essential apps. The same goes for everyone with a hobby, small business, recreation, etc.

    The notion that you can just pick the top twenty apps, get them created, and it will somehow be satisfactory is absurd. That's like saying that you can do all of your shopping at WalMart because what else would a normal person need? They have the top 10,000 things.
    02-23-16 11:25 PM
  13. anon(9733642)'s Avatar
    Newsflash: BlackBerry 10 is like any other OS. It's for those who want it. Doesn't matter what Chen says. The numbers don't lie. Make all the excuses you want. Market share is 0.2% which is almost non-existent. Between BES12 and the GOOD acquisition, they can secure pretty much any device. So even "BlackBerry 10 for Gov't" has a lesser meaning. I wish I was wrong I've had them all. An 850 pager, click wheels, trackballs, pearls, clam shells, torches, tours, bolds, Z10, Q10, Z30, Passport, Classic, and Porsche Graphite P'9983. I will use BlackBerry 10 for as long as I can, but I use and iPhone 6s as well because I need the ecosystem, period. And no matter how many times you change your story...the apps aren't coming to BB10
    GadgetTravel and Blacklatino like this.
    02-23-16 11:44 PM
  14. KermEd's Avatar
    Market share is 0.2% which is almost non-existent.
    So true. On that note too though, there are plenty of companies that could be profitable with 0.2% market share (however I doubt current BlackBerry is one of them)

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    Blacklatino and Killjoyhere like this.
    02-23-16 11:53 PM
  15. early2bed's Avatar
    So true. On that note too though, there are plenty of companies that could be profitable with 0.2% market share (however I doubt current BlackBerry is one of them)
    Yeah, like maybe a craft beer or something. Jack Welch at GE used to try to be number one or two globally or he would try to get out of an industry. Companies that can grow other businesses don't dabble in single digit market share for long. It simply doesn't make sense. You can achieve the same synergy with a partnership.
    KermEd and Ronindan like this.
    02-24-16 12:24 AM
  16. Ronindan's Avatar
    A common finding in these app threads is a significant underestimation of the collective resources required to maintain a robust app economy. First, there is the incredible diversity of apps and app developers needed to fill the niche applications that one person could never dream of. Every type of professional has a basket of essential apps. The same goes for everyone with a hobby, small business, recreation, etc.

    The notion that you can just pick the top twenty apps, get them created, and it will somehow be satisfactory is absurd. That's like saying that you can do all of your shopping at WalMart because what else would a normal person need? They have the top 10,000 things.
    Spot on. It is easy for posters here to dismiss the effort, resources and time it took for Google and Apple use to build their app ecosystems. Just because a tech company build an OS - does not mean developers will flock to develop apps for it.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-24-16 06:36 AM
  17. KermEd's Avatar
    ...can you tell me at least one app worth of buying in Blackberry World? I couldn't find any in 3 years and please do not make a list of third-party clients, just list of unique, useful developed and created by creator itself for BB10, not by indie copycats?

    ...you do not have tu BUY app to support developer, he can make money from paid services or even from ads. This is how most of Android developers make for a living, don't they? You do not pay for Walmart for allowance to enter the store, right?
    Regarding the top, I have plenty of unique apps that aren't copy cats. Vector Wars comes to mind as well as Text Edit. That said it doesn't mean my apps are going to be interesting to you

    Regarding ads. People who don't develop, always think that way. BlackBerry accidentally leaked out the stats once on their ad services once letting us see how everyone was doing. Companies in their top-10 money makers were only clearing a couple hundred a month - these guys had hundreds of apps with ads. Ads were and are a failure on BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry pulled the plug.

    You are also assuming that Android is profitable for developers. It is not. I'd ballpark that about 95% of developers on Android will never see a penny for their efforts.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    02-24-16 11:04 AM
  18. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Regarding the top, I have plenty of unique apps that aren't copy cats. Vector Wars comes to mind as well as Text Edit. That said it doesn't mean my apps are going to be interesting to you

    Regarding ads. People who don't develop, always think that way. BlackBerry accidentally leaked out the stats once on their ad services once letting us see how everyone was doing. Companies in their top-10 money makers were only clearing a couple hundred a month - these guys had hundreds of apps with ads. Ads were and are a failure on BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry pulled the plug.

    You are also assuming that Android is profitable for developers. It is not. I'd ballpark that about 95% of developers on Android will never see a penny for their efforts.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    well, at least if developers stop removing their existing working native apps from BBW, it would be great, right?
    06-01-16 03:54 PM
  19. Soulstream's Avatar
    well, at least if developers stop removing their existing working native apps from BBW, it would be great, right?
    That is and has always been up to the developers. It's not something BBW specific, devs can remove their apps at any time from the iOS/Android stores.

    You should realise that they don't do it out of spite, in 99% of cases it has to do with support costs and/or brand image.
    06-02-16 03:05 AM
  20. dan7800's Avatar
    Paying for apps is acutally cheaper than getting them for free.

    Posted via CB10
    06-03-16 01:43 AM
  21. KermEd's Avatar
    That is and has always been up to the developers. It's not something BBW specific, devs can remove their apps at any time from the iOS/Android stores.

    You should realise that they don't do it out of spite, in 99% of cases it has to do with support costs and/or brand image.
    True. I pulled mine from iOS last year. They require you to keep paying fees every year or they take it out of the store.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    08-26-16 02:06 PM
  22. BoyTanggol's Avatar
    True. I pulled mine from iOS last year. They require you to keep paying fees every year or they take it out of the store.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    Is it the same with BlackBerry or Google?

    Posted via CB10
    08-26-16 03:07 PM
  23. Vistaus's Avatar
    Is it the same with BlackBerry or Google?

    Posted via CB10
    IIRC from my college classes, Google requires a one-time fee. Not sure about BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    08-26-16 04:16 PM
  24. thurask's Avatar
    IIRC from my college classes, Google requires a one-time fee. Not sure about BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    $25 US, once.

    BlackBerry World is free to develop for, not that anyone's taking them up on it.
    Vistaus and DrBoomBotz like this.
    08-26-16 04:20 PM
  25. KermEd's Avatar
    IIRC from my college classes, Google requires a one-time fee. Not sure about BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10 using my amazing BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    Still true although iOS fees are down to 30/year iOS and 30/yr MacOS. And Microsoft is now free

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    08-26-16 08:44 PM
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