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  1. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    you two definitely missed the point )
    02-19-16 11:47 AM
  2. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    you two definitely missed the point )
    No, they got the point. You're the one who's missing it.
    iHadLastBB likes this.
    02-19-16 12:03 PM
  3. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    No, they got the point. You're the one who's missing it.
    With this "points" iPhone was never created because it was "already too late" for everything because Blackberry already took the US market ) Seeing all of you all "points" it looks like life is over, just IMHO.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-19-16 at 12:29 PM.
    02-19-16 12:10 PM
  4. early2bed's Avatar
    There is some truth in the idea that most BB10 apps are not viable if ported over to the other app stores because they are not unique enough nor sophisticated/polished enough to stand out. Most developers of BB10 apps would not make a living doing individual apps in the other app stores although they might be employable on mobile app development teams.

    The mobile app market has developed to the point that if you want to create something, you'd better have something more than an idea - you need to have talent and expertise in something else that you can bring to a mobile app. What does not work is to sit around and think of a cool app.
    02-19-16 01:09 PM
  5. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    with this kind of disagreeing attitude continuing after 6-9 months I think you quit reading CB at all because it will be nothing to read at all, but whatever suits you

    Want some quality time? App developers was the reason one what made iPhones soo popular today and how many of the iOS app developers tried to make BBM third-party client? None, they just made a Whatsapp and totally killed it. Its insane to think that BB10 developers with developing clients for existing services like Facebook and etc. will make BB10 successful and people will want to use BB10 devices more. BB10 developers must focus on creating something new, special, available only for BB10 users, this is how they can make attraction for others to start using BB10 devices and their apps by already existing BB10 users itself. Face10 is not something "special" just another third alternative to use Facebook, I wish that Nemory Studio put his knowledge by making something new and exciting and trendy like Instagram, Snapchat, Tinder or whatever else is today available for iOS/Android, but just for BB10 so all these iPhone/Samsung lovers started to considering to use it, but was forced to buy BB10, like we do vise versa today.
    What you don't get is that BB10 is competing against Apple and Android in 2016, not their 2008 versions.
    02-19-16 01:16 PM
  6. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Facebook has spent billions of dollars building their infrastructure, and one part of that infrastructure is making open APIs that other developers can use. That's one of the big reasons why Nemory is able to make a FB client (there's also talent, experience, and hard work that he brings to the table). But without the billions (or at least, tens of millions) of investment dollars, there wouldn't BE a Facebook today. Nor would there be Uber, or SnapChat, or Instagram, or WhatsApp. All those apps are relevant today only because of substantial funding from investors.

    Do you suppose it is only a coincidence that all of them targeted iOS first (the 2nd-largest platform with the 1st-largest income-per-user)? It wasn't a coincidence, or an accident. It was highly calculated, because one of the most important things a start-up needs is MONEY (revenues), and lots of it. You might get a couple million dollars in investment money if you have a solid idea and a realistic chance of growth, but if you aren't building revenues with it right away, your funding can get cut and your business will fall apart. Not only do developers know this, but so do investors.

    And that's why everyone on this thread has been trying to explain that devs that hope to have a break-through app or service need to be able to attract investors to fund their initial development, and to attract investors, they need a sound financial plan. Well, targeting BB10 is not a sound financial plan. The userbase is too small, and too much of that small userbase is in emerging markets. Telling an investor that you are planning to target BB10 first is the same as telling that investor that you think emotionally instead of logically, and that investor is going to laugh you out of his office. Remember that investors don't care about OSs, or even apps - they care about profit potential. A developer asks an investor for a big pile of that investor's money - a very risky situation where, much of the time, the investor's money is lost. The only motivation the investor has for giving his money to that developer is for profit potential. No profit potential? No investment money.

    That's more-or-less the same reason why Facebook doesn't make their own BB10 client, or Netflix, or Instagram, or SnapChat, etc. There simply isn't any profit potential - there would be more profit potential having developers improve their apps on other platforms, and thus attracting additional users or heavier engagement on those platforms, than to try to pick up the few stragglers on BB10. Otherwise, BB10 would have native clients for all of those services.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-19-16 01:53 PM
  7. JeepBB's Avatar
    LOL. This is like asking why restaurants keep trying to make it by serving chicken, burgers, or pizza when there's so much competition for those already. Find something original like serving squirrels and you will have no competition in any city and will be the next Colonel Sanders.
    Huh-Hmmm... feeling peckish now. I feel like road-kill tonight... I'll check Google Maps for my nearest McSquirrel's...
    02-19-16 02:10 PM
  8. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Facebook has spent billions of dollars building their infrastructure, and one part of that infrastructure is making open APIs that other developers can use. That's one of the big reasons why Nemory is able to make a FB client (there's also talent, experience, and hard work that he brings to the table). But without the billions (or at least, tens of millions) of investment dollars, there wouldn't BE a Facebook today. Nor would there be Uber, or SnapChat, or Instagram, or WhatsApp. All those apps are relevant today only because of substantial funding from investors.

    Do you suppose it is only a coincidence that all of them targeted iOS first (the 2nd-largest platform with the 1st-largest income-per-user)? It wasn't a coincidence, or an accident. It was highly calculated, because one of the most important things a start-up needs is MONEY (revenues), and lots of it. You might get a couple million dollars in investment money if you have a solid idea and a realistic chance of growth, but if you aren't building revenues with it right away, your funding can get cut and your business will fall apart. Not only do developers know this, but so do investors.

    And that's why everyone on this thread has been trying to explain that devs that hope to have a break-through app or service need to be able to attract investors to fund their initial development, and to attract investors, they need a sound financial plan. Well, targeting BB10 is not a sound financial plan. The userbase is too small, and too much of that small userbase is in emerging markets. Telling an investor that you are planning to target BB10 first is the same as telling that investor that you think emotionally instead of logically, and that investor is going to laugh you out of his office. Remember that investors don't care about OSs, or even apps - they care about profit potential. A developer asks an investor for a big pile of that investor's money - a very risky situation where, much of the time, the investor's money is lost. The only motivation the investor has for giving his money to that developer is for profit potential. No profit potential? No investment money.

    That's more-or-less the same reason why Facebook doesn't make their own BB10 client, or Netflix, or Instagram, or SnapChat, etc. There simply isn't any profit potential - there would be more profit potential having developers improve their apps on other platforms, and thus attracting additional users or heavier engagement on those platforms, than to try to pick up the few stragglers on BB10. Otherwise, BB10 would have native clients for all of those services.
    To add some more numbers. If an app sold to 1% of Apple users that would be more sales than if they sold to every BB10 user. The word "love" in the title may explain the problem. It isn't about "love" it's about business
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-19-16 02:30 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    In 2008 Apple gave us an SDK and APIs that were much more interesting than J2ME, CE and the other prehistoric stacks we had to deal with at that time.

    They also gave us an App Store that improved distribution way beyond the other choices in 2008.

    Net result: developers dreamt of apps they couldn't build on other platforms at the time and distribution that many of us didn't have on other platforms at the time. So Apple got a ton of developers interested.

    To my knowledge, BB10 hasn't enabled any apps that you can't already build on iOS or Android. And BB's store is behind Play and the App Store, especially after BB killed their own discovery argument by filling their brand new store with a ton of junk and poor curation.

    If BB10 could enable interesting apps that you can't build on iOS or Android, then developers might be more interested in BB10.
    StephanieMaks and iHadLastBB like this.
    02-19-16 04:43 PM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    If BB10 could enable interesting apps that you can't build on iOS or Android, then developers might be more interested in BB10.
    Especially absurd is how BB prided itself on "platform choice": why do one thing right when we can **** up many things at once?

    The AIR runtime was quietly phased out, the Android runtime is stuck in 2013 yet would be incomplete even then, WebWorks is okay I guess (haven't been following it), and native development has stagnated ever since BB fired all of the TAT people.

    What makes the last one worse is that through some accidental revelations from their dev branch, BB were working on Cascades 2.0 with Qt 5 during 10.3.1 development. Not that it would bring the company back to pole position, but maybe the sentiment of BB10 development would become "cautiously optimistic" instead of "terminally ill".
    Superdupont 2_0 likes this.
    02-19-16 04:57 PM
  11. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    Not to mention the obvious... But why

    Nevermind

    !
    02-19-16 05:00 PM
  12. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    What you don't get is that BB10 is competing against Apple and Android in 2016, not their 2008 versions.
    This is exactly what I'm saying all this time, it is 2016 but Blackberry view is still stuck in 2005. Like I'm saying all this time, Blackberry will become capable to compete against Apple and Android only if they make BB10 available for worldwide market like Apple and Android are, but not by keeping on purpose for "niche" markets it is today. To do this, all they need to do is to localize BB10 and put decent translations to Android/Apple OS level.

    + Talking about 2016 competing against Apple and Android, do you get that these two Operating Systems are just catching up with BB10 functionalities?

    Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put swipe gestures? Doesn't today all other platforms trying to copy this?
    Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put availability to check/uncheck permissions for apps? Apple put this after BB10 launch in 2013 and Android was capable to make this only after latest 6.0 version, at the end of 2015.
    Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put file manager so none of you do not even need any "cloud services", you can simply go with your BB10 device straight to your computer and have all your files and have as big unlimited storage as it is on your PC? IMHO, your documents can't be more private/safe then this and Apple/Android can't offer this or does they?

    And the list could go on and on, but in major, doesn't BB10 isn't smartest Operating System out here today?

    Talking about hardware, doesn't BB10 devices have the best speakers, Z30/Passport SE? Doesn't BB10 have the best batteries? Doesn't BB10 have the best quality screens? And the list could go on and on also.

    ++ For all of you native English speakers I see only "lack of apps" is the first world problem, for Non-English speakers first world problem starts since you push "Power button", can't be more clear about that.

    +++ You did not forget that BB10 is a real-time Operating System, right? Only by this all app developers could use this advantage by creating really efficient services for example.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-19-16 at 08:20 PM.
    02-19-16 08:09 PM
  13. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    ....
    That's more-or-less the same reason why Facebook doesn't make their own BB10 client, or Netflix, or Instagram, or SnapChat, etc. There simply isn't any profit potential - there would be more profit potential having developers improve their apps on other platforms, and thus attracting additional users or heavier engagement on those platforms, than to try to pick up the few stragglers on BB10. Otherwise, BB10 would have native clients for all of those services.
    To add some more numbers. If an app sold to 1% of Apple users that would be more sales than if they sold to every BB10 user. The word "love" in the title may explain the problem. It isn't about "love" it's about business
    No profit you say, it's about business you say, need Billions you say? So let me ask you a question, how many Millions/Billions Nemory Studio had to invest to create Facebook and etc. clients for BB10? Trillions? Sorry you two, but what you are trying to convince here is a pure bull****. it's all about business? ) For Facebook, Netflix, Instagram, Snapchat of whatever other service provider every +1 user is a profit and "investment" to make app for BB10 for them would feel maximum the same like for you buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks, even Nemory Studio is a clear proof for all of you.

    It's definitely something wrong with Blackberry relationship with all whose huge service providers and you can not deny/excuse that by "not enough return of investment" bull****. I really seriously interested what is wrong with Blackberry lately, not everyone do not make app for BB10. It's interesting why mostly social media providers are ignoring BB10 and it must be a really huge reason we don't know about and Blackberry keeps it as a secret.

    + no offense.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-19-16 at 09:03 PM.
    02-19-16 08:41 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    No profit you say, it's about business you say, need Billions you say? So let me ask you a question, how many Millions/Billions Nemory Studio had to invest to create Facebook and etc. clients for BB10? Trillions? Sorry you two, but what you are trying to convince here is a pure bull****. it's all about business? ) For Facebook, Netflix, Instagram, Snapchat of whatever other service provider every +1 user is a profit and "investment" to make app for BB10 for them would feel maximum the same like for you buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks, even Nemory Studio is a clear proof for all of you.

    It's definitely something wrong with Blackberry relationship with all whose huge service providers and you can not deny/excuse that by "not enough return of investment" bull****. I really seriously interested what is wrong with Blackberry lately, not everyone do not make app for BB10. It's interesting why mostly social media providers are ignoring BB10 and it must be a really huge reason we don't know about and Blackberry keeps it as a secret.
    Dude...
    02-19-16 08:50 PM
  15. thurask's Avatar
    No profit you say, it's about business you say, need Billions you say? So let me ask you a question, how many Millions/Billions Nemory Studio had to invest to create Facebook and etc. clients for BB10? Trillions? Sorry you two, but what you are trying to convince here is a pure bull****. it's all about business? ) For Facebook, Netflix, Instagram, Snapchat of whatever other service provider every +1 user is a profit and "investment" to make app for BB10 for them would feel maximum the same like for you buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks, even Nemory Studio is a clear proof for all of you.

    It's definitely something wrong with Blackberry relationship with all whose huge service providers and you can not deny/excuse that by "not enough return of investment" bull****. I really seriously interested what is wrong with Blackberry lately, not everyone do not make app for BB10. It's interesting why mostly social media providers are ignoring BB10 and it must be a really huge reason we don't know about and Blackberry keeps it as a secret.

    + no offense.
    02-19-16 09:39 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    No profit you say, it's about business you say, need Billions you say? So let me ask you a question, how many Millions/Billions Nemory Studio had to invest to create Facebook and etc. clients for BB10? Trillions? Sorry you two, but what you are trying to convince here is a pure bull****. it's all about business? ) For Facebook, Netflix, Instagram, Snapchat of whatever other service provider every +1 user is a profit and "investment" to make app for BB10 for them would feel maximum the same like for you buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks, even Nemory Studio is a clear proof for all of you.

    It's definitely something wrong with Blackberry relationship with all whose huge service providers and you can not deny/excuse that by "not enough return of investment" bull****. I really seriously interested what is wrong with Blackberry lately, not everyone do not make app for BB10. It's interesting why mostly social media providers are ignoring BB10 and it must be a really huge reason we don't know about and Blackberry keeps it as a secret.

    + no offense.
    Sounds like you should pursue this business strategy. You should be very successful and become very rich.

    Posted via CB10
    Tre Lawrence and GadgetTravel like this.
    02-19-16 10:01 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    This is exactly what I'm saying all this time, it is 2016 but Blackberry view is still stuck in 2005. Like I'm saying all this time, Blackberry will become capable to compete against Apple and Android only if they make BB10 available for worldwide market like Apple and Android are, but not by keeping on purpose for "niche" markets it is today. To do this, all they need to do is to localize BB10 and put decent translations to Android/Apple OS level.
    BB's current language supports around 80% of the people on the planet, yet has less than 0.2% of the market. There is no good reason to believe that adding support for additional languages is going to change this significantly.

    + Talking about 2016 competing against Apple and Android, do you get that these two Operating Systems are just catching up with BB10 functionalities?
    There is almost nothing that BB10 can do that other mobile OSs can't, aside from running BB-specific apps or BB-exclusively-enabled features (like video calling on BBM on BB10).

    Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put swipe gestures? Doesn't today all other platforms trying to copy this?
    No. iOS was the first consumer multi-touch OS that had gestures (publicly available in 2007) and WebOS was the first multi-touch OS that used primarily gesture-based navigation (in 2009). BB didn't even begin the BB10 project until 2010 when it bought QNX, and wasn't released to the public until 2013. BB10 copied a lot from both WebOS and Meego, another gesture-based OS that was out long before BB10.

    Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put availability to check/uncheck permissions for apps?
    No, permissions have been available in mobile devices since the 90's with PalmOS devices, and permissions were in WebOS.

    Apple put this after BB10 launch in 2013 and Android was capable to make this only after latest 6.0 version, at the end of 2015.
    iOS and Android both had app permissions in 2012, before BB10 was launched (in 2013), though it's true that they weren't officially supported on Android at that time, and were removed in 4.4 and not officially launched until 6.0. Apple officially supported permissions since at least 2011.

    Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put file manager so none of you do not even need any "cloud services", you can simply go with your BB10 device straight to your computer and have all your files and have as big unlimited storage as it is on your PC? IMHO, your documents can't be more private/safe then this and Apple/Android can't offer this or does they?
    BB might have been the first to do this in a first-party app, but this functionality was available on Android prior to BB10's launch.

    And the list could go on and on, but in major, doesn't BB10 isn't smartest Operating System out here today?
    Ultimately, that doesn't matter. The vast majority of people don't choose their mobile device based on the OS, but rather on the ecosystem related to that device, and BB10 has virtually no ecosystem. People know that, and that's why BB10 doesn't sell - it has little to do with the quality of the OS, good or bad.

    Talking about hardware, doesn't BB10 devices have the best speakers, Z30/Passport SE?
    No, the HTC One has better speakers.

    Doesn't BB10 have the best batteries? Doesn't BB10 have the best quality screens? And the list could go on and on also.
    No and no. Obviously you aren't even aware of what's available on the market - which is perhaps why you've made so many bad assumptions.

    ++ For all of you native English speakers I see only "lack of apps" is the first world problem, for Non-English speakers first world problem starts since you push "Power button", can't be more clear about that.
    This I agree with. Most people aren't going to buy a phone without support for their local language. Absolutely true. But BB10 supports the local language of 80% of the people on the planet, and they're still not buying it, so obviously there are big issues far beyond the language. We've discussed those things here a thousand times, but there's a whole list of those issues.

    +++ You did not forget that BB10 is a real-time Operating System, right? Only by this all app developers could use this advantage by creating really efficient services for example.
    BB10 is the ONLY real-time mobile OS - even newer OSs made since BB10 aren't using a RTOS. There are real-time versions of BSD (which is what iOS is based on) and Linux (which most other OSs are based on, including WebOS, Android, Meego, Tizen, Ubuntu, and Sailfish). Have you ever asked yourself why no one else has used a RTOS? Do you even know what a RTOS is, and why it is important, and what its advantages and disadvantages are? Are you aware that top mobile engineers believe that RTOSs are a bad fit for the demands and limitations of mobile equipment? I'm guessing not.

    If a RTOS was so fantastic, why hasn't BB10 sold like crazy?
    02-20-16 11:45 AM
  18. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    +++ You did not forget that BB10 is a real-time Operating System, right? Only by this all app developers could use this advantage by creating really efficient services for example.
    Troy has responded very well to thhe rest of your post, but there is one additional point to be made here.

    First, I am a supporter of BB10 based on the technical features of the OS, not because I'm a fan of the company. There are a lot of things the company has done over the years that disappointed me.

    The real time features of QNX are not directly exposed to the developer. The way a developer can leverage those real time features are well documented in the developer information, but few developers follow those directions. It is quite easy to spot when they don't. I have developed QNX based systems so I know what I'm speaking about here.

    You are right in that developers could create much more efficient systems using what BlackBerry has put into BB10, but that is not what the consumer market wants. There are customers that do want very efficient applications, and they are willing to pay very well for them. But if you are going to feed your kids on add supported programs, or a few dollars per sale you have to be first to the market and not put a lot of effort into programming.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    02-20-16 05:41 PM
  19. lfcohen's Avatar
    BB's current language supports around 80% of the people on the planet, yet has less than 0.2% of the market. There is no good reason to believe that adding support for additional languages is going to change this significantly.



    There is almost nothing that BB10 can do that other mobile OSs can't, aside from running BB-specific apps or BB-exclusively-enabled features (like video calling on BBM on BB10).



    No. iOS was the first consumer multi-touch OS that had gestures (publicly available in 2007) and WebOS was the first multi-touch OS that used primarily gesture-based navigation (in 2009). BB didn't even begin the BB10 project until 2010 when it bought QNX, and wasn't released to the public until 2013. BB10 copied a lot from both WebOS and Meego, another gesture-based OS that was out long before BB10.



    No, permissions have been available in mobile devices since the 90's with PalmOS devices, and permissions were in WebOS.



    iOS and Android both had app permissions in 2012, before BB10 was launched (in 2013), though it's true that they weren't officially supported on Android at that time, and were removed in 4.4 and not officially launched until 6.0. Apple officially supported permissions since at least 2011.



    BB might have been the first to do this in a first-party app, but this functionality was available on Android prior to BB10's launch.



    Ultimately, that doesn't matter. The vast majority of people don't choose their mobile device based on the OS, but rather on the ecosystem related to that device, and BB10 has virtually no ecosystem. People know that, and that's why BB10 doesn't sell - it has little to do with the quality of the OS, good or bad.



    No, the HTC One has better speakers.



    No and no. Obviously you aren't even aware of what's available on the market - which is perhaps why you've made so many bad assumptions.



    This I agree with. Most people aren't going to buy a phone without support for their local language. Absolutely true. But BB10 supports the local language of 80% of the people on the planet, and they're still not buying it, so obviously there are big issues far beyond the language. We've discussed those things here a thousand times, but there's a whole list of those issues.



    BB10 is the ONLY real-time mobile OS - even newer OSs made since BB10 aren't using a RTOS. There are real-time versions of BSD (which is what iOS is based on) and Linux (which most other OSs are based on, including WebOS, Android, Meego, Tizen, Ubuntu, and Sailfish). Have you ever asked yourself why no one else has used a RTOS? Do you even know what a RTOS is, and why it is important, and what its advantages and disadvantages are? Are you aware that top mobile engineers believe that RTOSs are a bad fit for the demands and limitations of mobile equipment? I'm guessing not.

    If a RTOS was so fantastic, why hasn't BB10 sold like crazy?
    Excellent reply. Can you elaborate a bit more on the RTOS topic?

    Best regards

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    02-21-16 06:54 PM
  20. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Excellent reply. Can you elaborate a bit more on the RTOS topic?

    Best regards
    There are probably better people for that (App-Developer, for example), but, to simplify, the point of an RTOS is to guarantee that certain processes will be processed on a specific schedule. That's important in applications where time is a critical factor - a vehicle, or a factory, or a power plant. You don't want a car waiting a few seconds to process a collision warning or suspension adjustment, for example.

    But in all of these cases, the computer running this OS has all the electrical power it needs, and it can throw more horsepower (requiring more electrical power) at the problem if it starts to get behind. A mobile device that runs on a relatively small battery is very different - if you just run the CPU at full speed all the time, you'll burn through your battery very quickly. You might not get as much lag, but that doesn't help much if your battery only lasts a couple of hours. I'm not saying a RTOS can't be written to work around that - BB10 proves that it can - but doing so negates much of the advantages of a RTOS in the first place.

    The other issue is that a RTOS has to keep apps running whether or not they're actually being used or not. This is why BB10 has to have "active frames" and why it is limited to 8 of them (and fewer on devices with less RAM), while I can have a hundred apps "running" (actually, in most cases, just loaded into RAM but mostly suspended, with occasional checks to see if something needs attention) on an Android or iOS device.

    The folks who designed every OS other than BB10 chose against basing that OS on a RTOS, because a RTOS simply wasn't a great fit for the needs and limitations of a mobile OS - which are quite different from a car, factory, etc. RTOSs are ideal for those environments, which is why they are used there very successfully, but that doesn't make RTOSs better for everything. A hammer makes a great nail-pounder, but is lousy for driving screws. Likewise, a screwdriver works screws well, but makes a lousy hammer. They're both important tools, but to get the benefit, you have to match the tool to the application.

    There are some folks here on CB - the vast majority I'm sure who'd never heard of QNX, or of a RTOS, before BB bought QNX - who clearly believe that QNX would make anything and everything better, mostly because it's owned by BB and uses as the foundation of BB10, but also because it's a RTOS, and somehow that makes it the superhero of OSs (even though something like LinuxRT is dismissed as junk, despite also being a Unix-like RTOS). They know all the buzzwords and can quote all of the plans that BB anounced when they bought QNX, but few really know what any of those buzzwords actually mean, or how they apply to mobile OSs. That's all just noise - what matters is that QNX is better - because reasons!

    I'm not a programmer or developer, and I can't speak to the fine details, but I know the basics, and it's enough to know that QNX is a terrific, industry-leading tool for certain applications, but that fact doesn't make QNX the best choice for every application. You have to match the tool to the application.
    02-21-16 11:37 PM
  21. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I'll pitch in a bit, I'm a BlackBerry 10 App dev,
    Basically there's very little reward for it, very few want to to pay for apps and for someone like myself who doesn't believe in adverts it's a pain.

    BlackBerry have basically confirmed the dis continuation of BB10 in the next few years, the API access we have is terrible, the store and tools are always breaking.
    I'm personally close to packing it in, no interest and no reward for us anymore
    Posted via CB10
    No need to explain the lack of support.......again. Those that have been around here should understand. Anyway, I appreciate you for hanging in there this long and nothing against those that have already moved on. Most DEVs don't work for free and there has to be consumers to buy the apps. This question was being asked before BB10 launched and answered and still being asked because some don't like the answer.
    02-22-16 12:24 AM
  22. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Thank You, its indeed really nice and informative answer, Troy Tiscareno but to be more exact, I was writing about "competing against Apple and Android" VS. Blackberry 10 and more specifically 2013 BB10 launch, not 2016 then Apple/Android got so much improved, so I would like to ask

    Question: "This is exactly what I'm saying all this time, it is 2016 but Blackberry view is still stuck in 2005. Like I'm saying all this time, Blackberry will become capable to compete against Apple and Android only if they make BB10 available for worldwide market like Apple and Android are, but not by keeping on purpose for "niche" markets it is today. To do this, all they need to do is to localize BB10 and put decent translations to Android/Apple OS level."
    BB's current language supports around 80% of the people on the planet, yet has less than 0.2% of the market. There is no good reason to believe that adding support for additional languages is going to change this significantly.
    Where you get this 80% number? If you were talking about iOS or WP, I could agree with you, but sorry, definitely not with BB10. First of all, BB10 do not support at least half of European countries languages/keyboard letters + Chinese Traditional, Japanese and etc., so I think this 80% is just speculations. Just look, even in Blackberry World at least keyboard support apps are promoting in the primary list TODAY 2016.02.22:

    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_20160221_034555.jpg

    Its also nice to see supportable Lithuanian name in preview pictures Maybe http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...-apps-1039852/ was the influence to make this app? )

    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_20160222_092005.jpg

    But this "copy-paste" writing is definitely is not a solution and is uncomfortable and Blackberry must feel shame that developers have to make even this type of workarounds. At least it would be nice if Blackberry made available BB10 keyboard be changeable like on android OS.

    + Just check how many "Thanks" this developer get in only a week, that should sum up importance.

    ++ Cracberry community members could successfully demand Blackberry Team to put "Russian translit" in 2014 with this service: https://blackberry.icanmakeitbetter.com/ , but this do not work anymore. Maybe you know where this Blackberry service was moved, link please?

    Question: "+ Talking about 2016 competing against Apple and Android, do you get that these two Operating Systems are just catching up with BB10 functionalities?"
    There is almost nothing that BB10 can do that other mobile OSs can't, aside from running BB-specific apps or BB-exclusively-enabled features (like video calling on BBM on BB10).
    Today, yes, I agree with you, but I was talking specifically about 2013 year, then BB10 was launched and at least I think Apple with Android was waaay behind compare to BB10 Operating System.

    Question: "Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put swipe gestures? Doesn't today all other platforms trying to copy this?"
    No. iOS was the first consumer multi-touch OS that had gestures (publicly available in 2007) and WebOS was the first multi-touch OS that used primarily gesture-based navigation (in 2009). BB didn't even begin the BB10 project until 2010 when it bought QNX, and wasn't released to the public until 2013. BB10 copied a lot from both WebOS and Meego, another gesture-based OS that was out long before BB10.
    I was talking specifically about swipe gestures, for example to be able to swipe from left to the right to "go back" and etc. In 2013 none Apple or Android did not had that or did they?

    Question: "Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put availability to check/uncheck permissions for apps?"
    No, permissions have been available in mobile devices since the 90's with PalmOS devices, and permissions were in WebOS.
    I was talking about ability to check/uncheck permissions.

    Question: "Apple put this after BB10 launch in 2013 and Android was capable to make this only after latest 6.0 version, at the end of 2015."
    iOS and Android both had app permissions in 2012, before BB10 was launched (in 2013), though it's true that they weren't officially supported on Android at that time, and were removed in 4.4 and not officially launched until 6.0. Apple officially supported permissions since at least 2011.
    "Competing against Apple and Android" VS. Blackberry 10, did Apple and Android had ability to check/uncheck permissions in 2013, before BB10 was launched?

    Question: "Doesn't BB10 was the first OS who put file manager so none of you do not even need any "cloud services", you can simply go with your BB10 device straight to your computer and have all your files and have as big unlimited storage as it is on your PC? IMHO, your documents can't be more private/safe then this and Apple/Android can't offer this or does they?"
    BB might have been the first to do this in a first-party app, but this functionality was available on Android prior to BB10's launch.
    Fair enough, thanks for info.

    And the list could go on and on, but in major, doesn't BB10 isn't smartest Operating System out here today?"
    Ultimately, that doesn't matter. The vast majority of people don't choose their mobile device based on the OS, but rather on the ecosystem related to that device, and BB10 has virtually no ecosystem. People know that, and that's why BB10 doesn't sell - it has little to do with the quality of the OS, good or bad.
    So, in major point you just denied your own words "It isn't indie developers' job to make BB devices popular" or didn't you?

    Question: "Talking about hardware, doesn't BB10 devices have the best speakers, Z30/Passport SE?"
    No, the HTC One has better speakers.
    Maybe for you HTC One speakers are the best, but there is a lot of people out there who disagree with you including myself and also made videos to proof this:





    + Passport Silver Edition speakers are much louder and clear like Z30, I know this because I own both. Just sad 1st generation Passport have poor bass/middle, I know this because I own it also.

    Question: "Doesn't BB10 have the best batteries? Doesn't BB10 have the best quality screens? And the list could go on and on also."
    No and no. Obviously you aren't even aware of what's available on the market - which is perhaps why you've made so many bad assumptions.
    OK.. then tell me which iPhone model have bigger battery then Z30 or Passport? Which android phone had bigger battery then Z30 was launched? Or Passport was launched? Yes, maybe today there is phones with bigger batteries, but be specific at that exact time when Z30/Passport was launched?

    Question: "++ For all of you native English speakers I see only "lack of apps" is the first world problem, for Non-English speakers first world problem starts since you push "Power button", can't be more clear about that."
    This I agree with. Most people aren't going to buy a phone without support for their local language. Absolutely true. But BB10 supports the local language of 80% of the people on the planet, and they're still not buying it, so obviously there are big issues far beyond the language. We've discussed those things here a thousand times, but there's a whole list of those issues.
    Finally, at least in one place we can agree with the first try ) but sorry, I still disagree with your 80% number :/

    + to add more, At least, thank's to Cobalt's created "Blackberry Google ID" I can make Android runtime work in my native language and have my countries native Android experience, here's some pics:

    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_20160221_211515.jpg
    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_20160221_211707.jpg
    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_20160221_211856.jpg

    Even Google show more love for Lithuanian/European languages and made available for video instant translate, and you can see what Blackberry means in Lithuanian )
    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_20160221_214045.jpg

    Question: "+++ You did not forget that BB10 is a real-time Operating System, right? Only by this all app developers could use this advantage by creating really efficient services for example."
    BB10 is the ONLY real-time mobile OS - even newer OSs made since BB10 aren't using a RTOS. There are real-time versions of BSD (which is what iOS is based on) and Linux (which most other OSs are based on, including WebOS, Android, Meego, Tizen, Ubuntu, and Sailfish). Have you ever asked yourself why no one else has used a RTOS? Do you even know what a RTOS is, and why it is important, and what its advantages and disadvantages are? Are you aware that top mobile engineers believe that RTOSs are a bad fit for the demands and limitations of mobile equipment? I'm guessing not.

    If a RTOS was so fantastic, why hasn't BB10 sold like crazy?
    "If a RTOS was so fantastic, why hasn't BB10 sold like crazy?" First of all, did anyone even knew BB10 is RTOS? I think even minority of CB community knows this fact, but does it really matters? I think, this should be matter only for developers who is offering variety of services and if developers did not find or couldn't think about the ways how to use this advantage it doesn't mean they never will + does developers even know about this RT capabilities on BB10, I guess few? If developrs created trendy/popular new services depended from RT and it only worked with BB10 it could sell like crazy.

    + And just, doesn't BB10 "File Manager" is not made by RT to get instant access to your PC with your BB10 device and you can get instant access to your PC anywhere you are, just need to leave PC turned on and have WiFi or just mobile data for you BB10 device?

    If this is true, it makes a lot of sense why others do not create RTOS because "Cloud services" wouldn't ever needed for anyone, because you just get unlimited storage as you have straight from your PC, then everyone better invested by buying more ssd hards and etc. and make their files/document as private/secure as it can be, but not paying monthly for "cloud" services and sharing personal files/document for only God know for who belonging servers. And here's your actual billions where those OS creators and etc. may actually lose Just IMHO.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-22-16 at 05:37 AM.
    02-22-16 03:44 AM
  23. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    No need to explain the lack of support.......again. Those that have been around here should understand. Anyway, I appreciate you for hanging in there this long and nothing against those that have already moved on. Most DEVs don't work for free and there has to be consumers to buy the apps. This question was being asked before BB10 launched and answered and still being asked because some don't like the answer.
    IMHO, its definitely not Blackberries but developers itself who need to blame for all of this IF developer do not know how they can "make money". Its no surprise why developers do not get "a lot of money" if they only focus by creating third-party clients apps, website redirect apps and other worthless applications.

    Do any of you see the same type of doing for Apple or Android developers what BB10 developer does? Apple and Android developers creates new services/products and tries to "make money" by inserting ads into the apps, make app freemium apps for example - games, make monthly payments for their services app like Spotify, Netflix, Evernote, Endomondo and etc. or just pay for done service app like Uber, Booking.com, Amazon, eBay, Banking apps and etc.

    Here is plenty of ways to "make money" but lack of BB10 developers imagination/influence to make something new is their own enemy, not lack of Blackberry rewarding them for making worthless third-party clients for existing services. This kind of developers who also is crying because of this kind of attitude for not having much support/reward from Blackberry or anyone else just should feel the shame IMHO.

    Only after BB10 developers point of view will change to Apple/Android developers point of view, BB10 developers will succeed and start to "make money", till that day come and BB10 developers still wasting their time/cry, I want to encourage all BB10 developers who make "website ports" to existing services or other worthless applications - STOP TRASHING Blackberry World, do something unique or nothing at all! And do not think what Blackberry will give you, Think what you can give for Blackberry. Thank You, no offense.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-22-16 at 06:13 AM.
    02-22-16 05:02 AM
  24. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    No need to explain the lack of support.......again. Those that have been around here should understand. Anyway, I appreciate you for hanging in there this long and nothing against those that have already moved on. Most DEVs don't work for free and there has to be consumers to buy the apps. This question was being asked before BB10 launched and answered and still being asked because some don't like the answer.
    Talking about Blackberry itself, I don't really get why they still positioning/marketing themselves (yes, Blackberry=marketing, sounds funny) and still targeting Blackberry 10 as "made for government and business". What do they want to fool? Well, it definitely doesn't work for average consumer and in 2016 it also doesn't work for government and business also, they all want universal Operating System in 2016, but it seems like Blackberry is still with the horse blanker. Blackberry is just fooling themselves and I will tell you why.

    First of all, Blackberry need to understand that there is no such a thing as a "niche" Operating System and Blackberry 10 Operating System is most definitely are not a "niche" Operating System. BB10 is universal Operating System like iOS/Android/WP are just with lack of OS translations and with zero ecosystem. When will they get this?

    Why John Chen on purpose spread false information and mislead the market and still promoting/targeting Blackberry 10 as "for government and business" everywhere, why he don't change the sentence from "for government and business" to "from government to private users/consumers"?

    Why does it feels like positioning and targeting BB10 ONLY "for government and business" is the real reason why services providers/developers do not want create apps for BB10/make average consumers feel that BB10 is not for them?

    Not only average user wants ecosystem, government and businesses also want universal Operating System, but Blackberry itself make and keep BB10 on porpuse as a "niche" OS. Blackberry should feel the shame of not to be capable to find the way to make major service providers/developers to make apps for BB10 ecosystem and make existing BB10 developers wasting their times to make third-party clients for those services.

    Only after opening Blackberry World and only I at least to see that Facebook app is "created by Facebook Inc." I can say that BB10 has a future, only after Blackberry find the way to make major apps developers starting supporting BB10 I will say BB10 has the future.

    Only after next video shared by Crackberry of John Chen speech and if ONLY John Chen will say "Blackberry 10 is made to use from government to average consumer" I will say BB10 has a future.
    02-22-16 07:17 AM
  25. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    No need to explain the lack of support.......again. Those that have been around here should understand. Anyway, I appreciate you for hanging in there this long and nothing against those that have already moved on. Most DEVs don't work for free and there has to be consumers to buy the apps. This question was being asked before BB10 launched and answered and still being asked because some don't like the answer.
    Talking about Blackberry itself, I don't really get why they still positioning/marketing themselves (yes, Blackberry=marketing, sounds funny) and still targeting Blackberry 10 as ONLY "made for government and business". What do they want to fool? Well, it definitely doesn't work for average consumer and in 2016 it also doesn't work for government and business also, they all want universal Operating System in 2016, but it seems like Blackberry is still with the horse blanker. Blackberry is only fooling itself and I will tell you why.

    First of all, Blackberry need to understand that there is no such a thing as a "niche" Operating System and Blackberry 10 Operating System is most definitely are not a "niche" Operating System. BB10 is universal Operating System like iOS/Android/WP, but just with lack of OS translations and with zero ecosystem. When will they get this?

    Why John Chen on purpose spread false information and mislead the market and still promoting/targeting Blackberry 10 as "for government and business" everywhere, why he don't change the sentence from "for government and business" to "from government to private users/consumers"?

    Why does it feels like positioning and targeting BB10 ONLY "for government and business" is the real reason why services providers/developers do not want create apps for BB10 and make average consumers feel BB10 is not for them so for the same reason not buying them?

    Not only average user wants ecosystem, government and businesses also want universal Operating System, but Blackberry itself make and keep BB10 on porpuse as a "niche" OS. Blackberry should feel the shame of not to be capable to find the way to make major service providers/developers to make apps for BB10 ecosystem and for the same reason make existing BB10 developers wasting their times to make third-party clients for those services.

    Only after opening Blackberry World and only after I at least see that Facebook app is "created by Facebook Inc." I can say that BB10 has a future, only after Blackberry find the way to make major apps developers start supporting BB10 I will say BB10 has the future.

    Only after next video shared by Crackberry of John Chen speech and if ONLY John Chen will say "Blackberry 10 is made to use from government to average consumer" I will say BB10 has a future.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-22-16 at 07:44 AM.
    02-22-16 07:26 AM
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