03-29-17 08:18 AM
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  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Someone would have to explain to me how you make a multi-billion dollar company by building a product for BB10, where the addressable market is only a few million users??
    CB Economics.
    JeepBB, DrBoomBotz and Jerry A like this.
    02-19-16 12:59 AM
  2. JeepBB's Avatar
    CB Economics.
    Yes indeed.

    It's another of the dozens of "someone else should spend their time and their money... because it benefits BB" posts that I've seen over the years here on CB that only work under the rules of CB Economics.
    02-19-16 03:38 AM
  3. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Yes indeed.

    It's another of the dozens of "someone else should spend their time and their money... because it benefits BB" posts that I've seen over the years here on CB that only work under the rules of CB Economics.
    A place where people will pay more for a cup of coffee that will be gone in a few minutes than an application that they will use for months or years.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    elfabio80 and JeepBB like this.
    02-19-16 05:32 AM
  4. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    It isn't indie developers' job to make BB devices popular - that was BB's job. The job of an indie developer is to make money from their apps and/or to create value for their service via their apps, and to do either of those things well, you need to be able to sell to a sizable percentage of the marketplace.

    Why? Simple: very, very few apps or services get anything remotely like 10% of an installed-base using their service - out of the millions of apps and services out there, there are probably only a few dozen non-game apps that crack the 10% threshold. The vast majority are at 2% or less - and that includes FREE apps.

    Being generous, lets say that BB10 has 10M users. This means, on average, being very generous, a good quality app might get 2% of these users, or 200k. If you could charge $1 per app, this would give the dev $140k over the life of the app (before taxes). That's nothing. Assume that a quality app needs at least 2 people to develop - say, one coder and one graphic designer. That's $70k each, probably with the majority spread over a 2-year period ($35k/year over 2 years) that is the likely period where most app purchases occur.

    That might be great for a 19-year-old living at home in Ohio, but it would barely pay rent on a small studio apartment in a sketchy part of the Bay Area - and wouldn't cover the rent on a small studio apartment in Silicon Valley.

    But that same amount of effort poured into an Android app is now looking at an installed base of over 1 billion unique users. Apple would give you over 300 M unique users - and this group will contain a far larger number of users from the upper end of the market then average. Either way, the same app at the same 2% of the market would earn that dev 100 times the money on Android or 30 times the money on iOS.

    I have no idea what you make at your job, and it doesn't really matter, but would you take a 99% pay cut in order to support BB over Android? Or a 96% pay cut to support BB10 over iOS? Because that's exactly what you're asking/expecting indie developers to do by supporting BB10 over Android or iOS.

    And before you say "there is less competition on BB10" (which is true), there is also worse demographics on BB than iOS and probably similar to Android - meaning a big percentage of users are in emerging markets where app sales tend to be much lower.

    These are called "market pressures" - i.e., the pressure to make money so that, not only can you continue to exist, but you can actually make a profit. And the market has spoken - loudly - that they don't believe that BB10 is a viable platform to make profits.
    Its not developers job to make devices popular, are you serious? Aren't you one of those guys who say BB10 failed because of lack of apps here everywhere? Most of the guys out here only talking about lack of apps, switching to android/iOS so they could use Snapchat or whatever, so no, you are definitely not right about all of this.

    + sorry for my bad English, but did you read it carefully/correctly? I am talking about developers who already spending their times by making apps for BB10, but they are wasting their time by making third-party app clients for existing services, but not making something new, their own. If any of these developers rather spent their time to create new trendy service like Snapchat, Instagram are and make it available only for BB10 users everything could turn around by 180 degrees and everyone who wanted to use that services must buy BB10 device, like it is now vise versa with Snapchat and etc for BB10 users. Just think outside of the box, don't be a narrow person.

    I see you like numbers, I just checked Face10, it has about ~4000 reviews today, if you are talking about profit, yeah right. If Nemory studio created new original service with Face10 functionality, I think it could become much more successful and could become trendy between BB10 users, now Face10 is just a third alternative to use Facebook, ok thanks.

    If the same attitude was with developers for iOS/Android we would never had instagram, snapchat, pinterest and etc. Its just sad that BB10 developers wasting their time only by making replicas/clients for existing services, but not creating new special for BB10, like BBM was long time ago and made BB devices popular, like Snapchat/Instagram/whatever today for iPhones and android phones. Thats all what I'm saying.

    ++ for answering your: "would you take a 99% pay cut in order to support BB over Android?"

    Yes, first of all, because it could be sooo much easier to make it noticeable because like we see today you must to be very lucky or have huge marketing budget to make your service/app popular so your not just got drown in millions other services/apps in the iOS/Android trash stores. As its not available for their iOS/android devices It also can be a nice trigger to make users talk about it and "want" to try something new and trendy but not available for their devices so their was forced to find a friend who has a BB10 or buy a BB10, like it is today with Snapchat and BB10 users.

    I'm not saying I would make ONLY for BB10, I'm saying I would use BB10 as a first platform available for my new services and only after some time available for other platforms, like Instagram and LOTS OF OTHERS made service available first for iPhones.

    Everyone was doing apps specialy for iPhone FIRST and this is exactly what made iPhone soo popular today, I'm offering to do the same with BB10 and everyone is losing their minds here )
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-19-16 at 07:27 AM.
    02-19-16 06:32 AM
  5. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Someone would have to explain to me how you make a multi-billion dollar company by building a product for BB10, where the addressable market is only a few million users??
    CB Economics.
    Yes indeed.

    It's another of the dozens of "someone else should spend their time and their money... because it benefits BB" posts that I've seen over the years here on CB that only work under the rules of CB Economics.
    It is not CB Economics, it is what it calls - Logic. iPhones did not become so popular just in one day, they used exactly the same strategy to make iPhones popular like they are today and it takes time. Lots of popular apps today was created for iOS platform FIRST and only after some time for other platforms, this trend is mostly still works today. I just offered to make this trend for BB10 and make BB10 first platform for starting a new service or whatever, but not wasting time for developers who already works with BB10 platform by creating no one needed clients for existing services. Why so hard to understand?
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-19-16 at 07:24 AM.
    02-19-16 06:45 AM
  6. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    It is not CB Economics, it is what it calls - Logic. iPhones did not become so popular just in one day, they used exactly the same strategy to make iPhones popular like they are today and it takes time. Lots of popular apps today was created for iOS platform FIRST and only after some time for other platforms, this trend is mostly still works today. I just offered to make this trend for BB10 and make BB10 first platform for starting a new service or whatever, but not wasting time for developers who already works with BB10 platform by creating no one needed clients for existing services. Why so hard to understand?
    That was true in 2007. Not now. Now it is CB economics. It doesn't make sense to develop for BB10 today.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-19-16 07:30 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    It's a moot point.

    BlackBerry just fell from 0.5% market share to 0.2%, and Windows from 2.8% to 1.1%.

    It doesn't matter what developers do or don't do.
    02-19-16 07:32 AM
  8. early2bed's Avatar
    LOL. This is like asking why restaurants keep trying to make it by serving chicken, burgers, or pizza when there's so much competition for those already. Find something original like serving squirrels and you will have no competition in any city and will be the next Colonel Sanders.
    02-19-16 07:44 AM
  9. Killjoyhere's Avatar
    Its not developers job to make devices popular, are you serious? Aren't you one of those guys who say BB10 failed because of lack of apps here everywhere? Most of the guys out here only talking about lack of apps, switching to android/iOS so they could use Snapchat or whatever, so no, you are definitely not right about all of this.

    + sorry for my bad English, but did you read it carefully/correctly? I am talking about developers who already spending their times by making apps for BB10, but they are wasting their time by making third-party app clients for existing services, but not making something new, their own. If any of these developers rather spent their time to create new trendy service like Snapchat, Instagram are and make it available only for BB10 users everything could turn around by 180 degrees and everyone who wanted to use that services must buy BB10 device, like it is now vise versa with Snapchat and etc for BB10 users. Just think outside of the box, don't be a narrow person.

    I see you like numbers, I just checked Face10, it has about ~4000 reviews today, if you are talking about profit, yeah right. If Nemory studio created new original service with Face10 functionality, I think it could become much more successful and could become trendy between BB10 users, now Face10 is just a third alternative to use Facebook, ok thanks.

    If the same attitude was with developers for iOS/Android we would never had instagram, snapchat, pinterest and etc. Its just sad that BB10 developers wasting their time only by making replicas/clients for existing services, but not creating new special for BB10, like BBM was long time ago and made BB devices popular, like Snapchat/Instagram/whatever today for iPhones and android phones. Thats all what I'm saying.

    ++ for answering your: "would you take a 99% pay cut in order to support BB over Android?"

    Yes, first of all, because it could be sooo much easier to make it noticeable because like we see today you must to be very lucky or have huge marketing budget to make your service/app popular so your not just got drown in millions other services/apps in the iOS/Android trash stores. As its not available for their iOS/android devices It also can be a nice trigger to make users talk about it and "want" to try something new and trendy but not available for their devices so their was forced to find a friend who has a BB10 or buy a BB10, like it is today with Snapchat and BB10 users.

    I'm not saying I would make ONLY for BB10, I'm saying I would use BB10 as a first platform available for my new services and only after some time available for other platforms, like Instagram and LOTS OF OTHERS made service available first for iPhones.

    Everyone was doing apps specialy for iPhone FIRST and this is exactly what made iPhone soo popular today, I'm offering to do the same with BB10 and everyone is losing their minds here )
    Disagreed with your first paragraph and quit reading. Quality over quantity friend.

    Posted via CB10
    02-19-16 10:11 AM
  10. Ronindan's Avatar
    Getting developers to develop for a platform is not just about pure hard cash. Google for example has developed rapport with developers for a long time. Google service such as Maps, translate etc... are not just services but also developer tools. And Google even today still goes out of their way to promote their tools to developers and not just to entice them to develop apps for Android. Just watch Google IO, behind the splashy announcements, there are actual workshops, training and classroom sessions for developers to learn and use the latest Google developers tools.

    No amount of cheesy music videos from BB will overshadow that.
    02-19-16 10:40 AM
  11. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Disagreed with your first paragraph and quit reading. Quality over quantity friend.

    Posted via CB10
    with this kind of disagreeing attitude continuing after 6-9 months I think you quit reading CB at all because it will be nothing to read at all, but whatever suits you

    Want some quality time? App developers was the reason one what made iPhones soo popular today and how many of the iOS app developers tried to make BBM third-party client? None, they just made a Whatsapp and totally killed it. Its insane to think that BB10 developers with developing clients for existing services like Facebook and etc. will make BB10 successful and people will want to use BB10 devices more. BB10 developers must focus on creating something new, special, available only for BB10 users, this is how they can make attraction for others to start using BB10 devices and their apps by already existing BB10 users itself. Face10 is not something "special" just another third alternative to use Facebook, I wish that Nemory Studio put his knowledge by making something new and exciting and trendy like Instagram, Snapchat, Tinder or whatever else is today available for iOS/Android, but just for BB10 so all these iPhone/Samsung lovers started to considering to use it, but was forced to buy BB10, like we do vise versa today.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-19-16 at 10:57 AM.
    02-19-16 10:44 AM
  12. Ronindan's Avatar
    I think the op is clueless on how instagram, tinder and other such apps, etc.. got started. All those apps that you mentioned had venture capital funding. And vc want return on their investments, no vc will invest on a developer if they will only make exclusive BB apps.
    02-19-16 10:55 AM
  13. early2bed's Avatar
    Talking about BB10 developers at this point is kind of bizarre. I'd be curious to find out how many BB10 developers even BlackBerry still has at this point since they have made the switch to Android.
    02-19-16 11:21 AM
  14. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    I think the op is clueless on how instagram, tinder and other such apps, etc.. got started. All those apps that you mentioned had venture capital funding. And vc want return on their investments, no vc will invest on a developer if they will only make exclusive BB apps.
    Well, I think Nemory Studio was capable to create pretty efficient client for Facebook without venture capital funding, so if they spend the time by making Face10, why not better make something new? If it will be something great, money will follow if all of you only think about "cash".
    02-19-16 11:22 AM
  15. early2bed's Avatar
    Well, I think Nemory Studio was capable to create pretty efficient client for Facebook without venture capital funding, so if they spend the time by making Face10, why not better to make something new? If it will be something great, money will follow if all of you only think about "cash".
    If you can make a Facebook client then you should be able to make something like Facebook itself? Are you serious?
    02-19-16 11:24 AM
  16. Ronindan's Avatar
    Sighhh making a 3rd party client for Facebook is not the same as developing, maintaining Facebook itself.

    By the way why don't you put where your mouth is. Why don't you develop the next big app that will change BB fortunes instead of harping on actual developers.
    02-19-16 11:27 AM
  17. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    If you can make a Facebook client then you should be able to make something like Facebook itself? Are you serious?
    Facebook was not created in 7 days by God, so yes, I am serious.
    02-19-16 11:27 AM
  18. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Sighhh making a 3rd party client for Facebook is not the same as developing, maintaining Facebook itself.

    By the way why don't you put where your mouth is. Why don't you develop the next big app that will change BB fortunes instead of harping on actual developers.
    Why so narrow point of view, who's even talking about Facebook itself, it can be anything, sky is the limit.

    Who is saying I wont one day.

    + I'm "harping" developers, because I see how they are wasting their time by creating something what has no value, if suddenly Blackberry update Facebook, everyone out here forget about Face10. I just wish BB10 developers just tried to make something new like iOS/Android developers are trying everyday. it would be Win-WIn for BB10 and developers itself.
    02-19-16 11:31 AM
  19. early2bed's Avatar
    I guarantee that if anyone comes up with an idea that has the potential of Facebook, Uber, AirBnb, Snapchat, Twitter, etc. they certainly won't be developing it for BlackBerry 10. LOL!
    Ronindan likes this.
    02-19-16 11:31 AM
  20. Ronindan's Avatar
    Why so narrow point of view, who's even talking about Facebook itself, it can be anything, sky is the limit.

    Who is saying I wont one day.
    Then do it. Learn some code and develop your app. Instead of telling other developers to do so
    02-19-16 11:33 AM
  21. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Sighhh making a 3rd party client for Facebook is not the same as developing, maintaining Facebook itself.

    By the way why don't you put where your mouth is. Why don't you develop the next big app that will change BB fortunes instead of harping on actual developers.
    Then do it. Learn some code and develop your app. Instead of telling other developers to do so
    + I'm "harping" developers, because I see how they are wasting their time by creating something what has no value, if suddenly Blackberry update Facebook, everyone out here forget about Face10. I just wish BB10 developers just tried to make something new like iOS/Android developers are trying everyday. it would be Win-WIn for BB10 and developers itself.
    02-19-16 11:37 AM
  22. Ronindan's Avatar
    I guarantee that if anyone comes up with an idea that has the potential of Facebook, Uber, AirBnb, Snapchat, Twitter, etc. they certainly won't be developing it for BlackBerry 10. LOL!
    Just imagine Uber ceo going to a vc with a business case that state "we are making our app bb exclusive."
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-19-16 11:39 AM
  23. early2bed's Avatar
    Imagine doing the presentation of your hot new internet idea on Shark Tank. The VC's then ask you what what mobile platforms you are compatible with. "BlackBerry 10" BWAHAHAHAHA!!

    Words never said by a successful technology startup: "Well, we were kicking around some ideas for our BlackBerries..."
    Ronindan, iHadLastBB and JeepBB like this.
    02-19-16 11:40 AM
  24. Ronindan's Avatar
    Or Netflix app is bb exclusive, south goes Netflix stock.
    02-19-16 11:44 AM
  25. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Just imagine Uber ceo going to a vc with a business case that state "we are making our app bb exclusive."
    If he was talking about limousines/"special transport" and the direct target are government/business, it could be quite possible, why not?

    + and I never talked about ONLY exclusive for BB10, BB10 as a first platform for startup.
    02-19-16 11:44 AM
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