03-29-17 07:18 AM
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  1. StephanieMaks's Avatar
    As far as I know, BB Apps allow users disallow an app to gain access to contacts, photos, etc. Google and Apple apps do not allow that feature. For instance, I can check off that I do not want the Wall Street Journal BB app to have access to my contacts, photos, etc.
    When I want to install an Amazon App, it is either accept all or not have to app.
    The developers that offer free apps want access to our data while BB10 provides the option for us to deny them that access. I believe some of the App problem for BB stems from our ability to deny devs access to our data.
    I do not want to give these entities access to my photos, emails, etc. and I will live with the fact that I don't have every App in the universe.
    Apple has allowed granular permissions since at least iOS 7. So if an app wants to access contacts, calendars, camera, photos, what ever, it first has to ask permission for the thing it wants, and you can accept or deny, then you can go back and change your mind later at any time. For each and every little thing, you can toggle them on and off.
    Chak and Elephant_Canyon like this.
    02-10-16 05:32 PM
  2. HereticHermit's Avatar
    'Hi, I saw some shoes online, there where black do you have them?'
    Yes, we do but they come for different pronations. Please report back with your actual pronation and status of plantar fasciitis I am sure we will give you that one in Black --
    02-10-16 05:33 PM
  3. eshropshire's Avatar
    The same could be said about BBOS, but BBOS is still here.
    If the remaining BBOS users would all switch to BB10, we would have more than 10 millions users, while BlackBerry still has some inventory.

    If I would be the IT manager coming from BBOS with BES, I would still go for the more secure BB10+BES in 2016 and keep the Priv as a "plan B".
    I agree with Conite that Android is now making some advances security. For most companies Apple has arrived. Apple has made major advances in security and using an iPhone with a good MDM system has been well tested and reviewed not just by companies but also governments. Many US Federal Government Agencies now use iPhones.

    For ultra secure phones, like the US President, these phones are as much of a BlackBerry as his limo is a Cadillac or Air Force One is a 747. These are custom built systems. The President's phone is hand built by the NSA. Even his original BBOS phone was a hand built NSA device. I always laughed when people here said the NSA could not snoop on BBOS. If that was the case then the NSA would not have hand built a special phone for the President.
    02-10-16 05:46 PM
  4. jallister's Avatar
    As far as I know, BB Apps allow users disallow an app to gain access to contacts, photos, etc. Google and Apple apps do not allow that feature. For instance, I can check off that I do not want the Wall Street Journal BB app to have access to my contacts, photos, etc.
    When I want to install an Amazon App, it is either accept all or not have to app.
    The developers that offer free apps want access to our data while BB10 provides the option for us to deny them that access. I believe some of the App problem for BB stems from our ability to deny devs access to our data.
    I do not want to give these entities access to my photos, emails, etc. and I will live with the fact that I don't have every App in the universe.
    Both iOS and Android supports this. iOS was first I believe and has supported App Permission since iPhone OS 3.0 and the introduction of the App Store. Android on the other hand started supporting it last year with Marshmallow. But both system support App Permissions.
    Attached Thumbnails App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3474.jpg   App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3475.jpg   App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3476.jpg   App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3477.jpg   App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3478.jpg  

    App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3479.jpg   App developers "love" for Blackberry 10?-img_3480.jpg  
    Chak and Superdupont 2_0 like this.
    02-10-16 06:58 PM
  5. Chak's Avatar
    Thank you for your mature answer. During a year with LG G3, I got ads ads that only could be driven off my data. Good to know that iOS gives granular permissions. Also good to be back with BB10 - I do like the pkb and the formfactor of the Passport.
    I still believe much of what we experience online (and especially social media) is like the Wild West and we do need to be mindful of what's going on with our data.
    02-10-16 09:26 PM
  6. ZeBB45's Avatar
    I've been reading this entire thread and for the most part it's been information-rich and a good read, until it goes off-topic... hey, this is crackberry

    Like others have said, a big part is the reviews on BBW, and community attitude in general. Looking at the comments in Face10's thread makes you cringe. It's the entitlement attitude people hold. Like paying just a couple of pounds/dollars is gonna break the bank. Yet, they will moan that they haven't got a decent facebook app and refuse to pay for one.

    Android has been the biggest issues with BB10. In fact, I stopped buying apps until "built for BlackBerry came out" due to the ported android nonsense in the 10.2.1 days. You'd grab an app only to find that it was a laggy-android port.


    Q10 - 10.3.2.2876/SR .2836  < α∂∂ιт > 
    paulwallace1234 likes this.
    02-11-16 11:48 AM
  7. ZeBB45's Avatar
    BB10 reminds me of the PS Vita. The PS Vita failed because many game developers didn't show it enough love. Hell, even Sony integrating the Vita into the PS4 wasn't enough to help it.

    Q10 - 10.3.2.2876/SR .2836  < α∂∂ιт > 
    02-11-16 12:01 PM
  8. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    I've been reading this entire thread and for the most part it's been information-rich and a good read, until it goes off-topic... hey, this is crackberry

    Like others have said, a big part is the reviews on BBW, and community attitude in general. Looking at the comments in Face10's thread makes you cringe. It's the entitlement attitude people hold. Like paying just a couple of pounds/dollars is gonna break the bank. Yet, they will moan that they haven't got a decent facebook app and refuse to pay for one.


    Q10 - 10.3.2.2876/SR .2836  < α∂∂ιт > 
    I believe the attitude from some towards developers like Oliver is disgraceful, people show themselves up in a lot of cases, even I backed him up a lot after that security report on his Apps, which fair play he fixed quickly.

    I've had it before on Symbian, some nut job was hell bent on trying to ruin my reputation, I won in the end.

    'They want everything for free and they want it yesterday'

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-16 12:15 PM
  9. early2bed's Avatar
    Most people who say they are willing to pay for apps are thinking something like $5 or less, one time. There is almost always a caveat - "I will gladly pay for it as long as...." Developers would almost rather people not pay for their apps so that they won't feel so entitled. That's why they like advertising because ad companies don't feel entitled to service just because they paid $4.99 last year.
    02-11-16 01:14 PM
  10. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    Most people who say they are willing to pay for apps are thinking something like $5 or less, one time. There is almost always a caveat - "I will gladly pay for it as long as...." Developers would almost rather people not pay for their apps so that they won't feel so entitled. That's why they like advertising because ad companies don't feel entitled to service just because they paid $4.99 last year.
    It's the people that suddenly turn nasty just because its an App that really get me, I bet half the people who bought a coffee for the same price and didn't like it just left it, and simply didn't buy one again, but with App Stores, by hell, they suddenly get enraged.


    I personally don't like advertising, for someone who has spent the past 5 years on a limited and slow connection I understand what a pain in the a*se they can be, I'd rather stick to the paid one time purchase model.
    02-11-16 01:42 PM
  11. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I agree with Conite that Android is now making some advances security. For most companies Apple has arrived. Apple has made major advances in security and using an iPhone with a good MDM system has been well tested and reviewed not just by companies but also governments. Many US Federal Government Agencies now use iPhones.

    For ultra secure phones, like the US President, these phones are as much of a BlackBerry as his limo is a Cadillac or Air Force One is a 747. These are custom built systems. The President's phone is hand built by the NSA. Even his original BBOS phone was a hand built NSA device. I always laughed when people here said the NSA could not snoop on BBOS. If that was the case then the NSA would not have hand built a special phone for the President.
    In my view, the BlackPhone and the Priv are reasonable options for people who need certain apps for whatever reason, and that's fine.
    But I consider Android itself still as too vulnerable, they are patching the mediaserver for about 4 months now and Google Play cannot detect malicious apps (yes, it is the safest store, but around 10% of the apps are acting malicous).

    iOS has made major advances in catching up security compared to BlackBerry, they had serious problems with basic and simple requirements like device encryption, and with regards to their appstore, I do not think their detection system is any better than Google's:
    https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-...t_s_a_new.html

    The only reason enterprises/governments are using iPhones is because people love the iOS experience, it never was the security.

    Regarding the appstores, people are believing in the myth that the appstores from Google and Apple are vetting apps sufficiently, but I (oviously) doubt that.
    I assume most MDM solutions can prevent that the user installs apps from the appstores, but obviously this feature isn't very popular yet.

    Regarding ultra secure phones, I remember from the Snowden documents that it required TAO and continoues efforts to snoop BES traffic on BBOS devices, nothing is known about BB10.
    Matter of fact, I have never seen any top politician or top manager with an iPhone until today, no matter what people claim about iPhone security.

    I believe that if you want to develop for BB10, you should build up a good reputation in security (Certificate Pinning, SSL, less permissions etc etc ....) and BBRY should promote apps which are following a good practice in security.
    It will help to keep BBW clean and prevent reputation damage (well, we know Android and iOS users don't really care about it, but...).
    02-11-16 10:59 PM
  12. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Both iOS and Android supports this. iOS was first I believe and has supported App Permission since iPhone OS 3.0 and the introduction of the App Store. Android on the other hand started supporting it last year with Marshmallow. But both system support App Permissions.
    Just would like to add that the very first was BBOS ( I can only speak for for BB6 and BB7).
    02-11-16 11:00 PM
  13. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Both iOS and Android supports this. iOS was first I believe and has supported App Permission since iPhone OS 3.0 and the introduction of the App Store. Android on the other hand started supporting it last year with Marshmallow. But both system support App Permissions.
    All that iOS needs is an app-centric (as opposed to 'permission centric') view... so I can review a given apps permissions and see EVERYTHING it wants to do and flip the switches... and then the apps have to 'fail gracefully' if I deny a permission the app "needs"... where "needs" is often "because we want you storing your data on the cloud instead of on your local device because monetizing your profile is the only hope we have for a business model."... because if I wanted my profile monetized, I'd be an Android user.

    Most people who say they are willing to pay for apps are thinking something like $5 or less, one time. There is almost always a caveat - "I will gladly pay for it as long as...." Developers would almost rather people not pay for their apps so that they won't feel so entitled. That's why they like advertising because ad companies don't feel entitled to service just because they paid $4.99 last year.
    We live in a crazy world where perceived value of a given product or service is really out of whack... where $5 for a latt is 'the going rate', but to pay even $1 per month for an app-based service you use all the time is considered a rip off... because for good or bad, there is so much open source / free software that is EXCELLENT that people just expect excellent software and services to be free... without thinking about what that really means (i.e. but by the grace of the developer's enthusiastic support for a project as a hobby, or their employer paying them to work on open source projects, do such products and services even exist).

    One thing I think app stores need is the 'right' for an app developer to charge for upgrades. The business model of "pay once, get free upgrades forever" inspires developers to abandon their software and develop something new, rather than to maintain it and add value to it. I guess a subscription or an app is one way, but a developer should have an 'upgrade fee' as an option for keeping funding their apps. When there was only 1000 apps in the app store, there was a reasonable expectation of "growth" for the developers... but with 2 million other apps to compete with, that kind of growth isn't really reasonable, especially for apps with a niche focus (for example, an app that helps hobbyist astronomers manage things etc... that's a niche market app that shouldn't necessarily cost $20 up front, but maybe $5 up front and $2 for upgrades if they're significant enough etc. Just another business model that app developers can try.

    It's like it's a crime for a small app developer to make a bit of money... and on BlackBerry 10, I seriously doubt there are developers making a "living" at it, nevermind actually getting rich.

    Imagine what the app ecosystems on all platforms would be like if there were no free apps at all... aside from trialware that stops working after 30 days... would that bring more developers (i.e. if you make a decent app, people will have to pay for it) or deep-six the ecosystem completely? Even free games like Angry Birds that have in-app purchases and ads... how many people have got WAY WAY more than 99 worth of entertainment out of those apps? Now Rovio is on the brink of bankruptcy because their one-hit-wonder is fading from popularity... but seriously, that was like a "killer app" for smartphones to a certain extent (I sold my original Dell Venue 5 Android device to someone who, before purchasing it, immediately installed Angry Birds to test it out, and were satisfied with the performance, and happily bought the device).
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 02-12-16 at 01:05 PM.
    02-12-16 12:54 PM
  14. jallister's Avatar
    All that iOS needs is an app-centric (as opposed to 'permission centric') view... so I can review a given apps permissions and see EVERYTHING it wants to do and flip the switches... and then the apps have to 'fail gracefully' if I deny a permission the app "needs"... where "needs" is often "because we want you storing your data on the cloud instead of on your local device because monetizing your profile is the only hope we have for a business model."... because if I wanted my profile monetized, I'd be an Android user.
    Like this? Because if so, iOS has both. (I tried to use app who required access to different things)
    Attached Thumbnails App developers &quot;love&quot; for Blackberry 10?-img_3490.jpg   App developers &quot;love&quot; for Blackberry 10?-img_3491.jpg   App developers &quot;love&quot; for Blackberry 10?-img_3492.jpg   App developers &quot;love&quot; for Blackberry 10?-img_3493.jpg   App developers &quot;love&quot; for Blackberry 10?-img_3494.jpg  

    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    02-12-16 01:13 PM
  15. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Like this? Because if so, iOS has both. (I tried to use app who required access to different things)
    Yes, exactly like that... thanks! (I don't think it's always worked like that, has it?... but this is what I was looking for!)
    02-12-16 01:23 PM
  16. jallister's Avatar
    Yes, exactly like that... thanks! (I don't think it's always worked like that, has it?... but this is what I was looking for!)
    App Permission in a view like that started in iOS 7 I think, I don't remember weather it was in iOS 6 and before or not. Xcode doesn't support simulating anything before iOS 9 anymore so I cant check.
    02-12-16 01:52 PM
  17. Killjoyhere's Avatar
    Exactly just look at face10 thread..
    It is kind of disgusting.

    Posted via CB10
    02-13-16 12:42 PM
  18. Killjoyhere's Avatar
    All that iOS needs is an app-centric (as opposed to 'permission centric') view... so I can review a given apps permissions and see EVERYTHING it wants to do and flip the switches... and then the apps have to 'fail gracefully' if I deny a permission the app "needs"... where "needs" is often "because we want you storing your data on the cloud instead of on your local device because monetizing your profile is the only hope we have for a business model."... because if I wanted my profile monetized, I'd be an Android user.



    We live in a crazy world where perceived value of a given product or service is really out of whack... where $5 for a latt is 'the going rate', but to pay even $1 per month for an app-based service you use all the time is considered a rip off... because for good or bad, there is so much open source / free software that is EXCELLENT that people just expect excellent software and services to be free... without thinking about what that really means (i.e. but by the grace of the developer's enthusiastic support for a project as a hobby, or their employer paying them to work on open source projects, do such products and services even exist).

    One thing I think app stores need is the 'right' for an app developer to charge for upgrades. The business model of "pay once, get free upgrades forever" inspires developers to abandon their software and develop something new, rather than to maintain it and add value to it. I guess a subscription or an app is one way, but a developer should have an 'upgrade fee' as an option for keeping funding their apps. When there was only 1000 apps in the app store, there was a reasonable expectation of "growth" for the developers... but with 2 million other apps to compete with, that kind of growth isn't really reasonable, especially for apps with a niche focus (for example, an app that helps hobbyist astronomers manage things etc... that's a niche market app that shouldn't necessarily cost $20 up front, but maybe $5 up front and $2 for upgrades if they're significant enough etc. Just another business model that app developers can try.

    It's like it's a crime for a small app developer to make a bit of money... and on BlackBerry 10, I seriously doubt there are developers making a "living" at it, nevermind actually getting rich.

    Imagine what the app ecosystems on all platforms would be like if there were no free apps at all... aside from trialware that stops working after 30 days... would that bring more developers (i.e. if you make a decent app, people will have to pay for it) or deep-six the ecosystem completely? Even free games like Angry Birds that have in-app purchases and ads... how many people have got WAY WAY more than 99 worth of entertainment out of those apps? Now Rovio is on the brink of bankruptcy because their one-hit-wonder is fading from popularity... but seriously, that was like a "killer app" for smartphones to a certain extent (I sold my original Dell Venue 5 Android device to someone who, before purchasing it, immediately installed Angry Birds to test it out, and were satisfied with the performance, and happily bought the device).
    You make great points here. I agree that freeware is killing this business. I am perfectly willing to pay. However, the apps that do charge a fee are disadvantaged in the marketplace. The thing is we, as consumers, are suffering because there is no longer any expectation of privacy. We, collectively, become the product that these developers / corporations want to monetize via direct advertising.

    I think Maddock described it perfectly here:

    Let me know what you think

    Posted via CB10
    02-13-16 12:51 PM
  19. DonHB's Avatar
    App Permission in a view like that started in iOS 7 I think, I don't remember weather it was in iOS 6 and before or not. Xcode doesn't support simulating anything before iOS 9 anymore so I cant check.
    PalmOS allowed the restriction of data access to apps. So, for example, some contacts could be made private. Did this feature exist in BBOS 7?
    Last edited by DonHB; 02-13-16 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Maddock's video - yes.
    02-13-16 04:09 PM
  20. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    PalmOS allowed the restriction of data access to apps. So, for example, some contacts could be made private. Did this feature exist in BBOS 7?
    I had granular Apps Permission Control my BB6 and BB7 devices, probably also on earlier OS versions.
    I can't remember all, but I do remember that it included "internet access", so it was in some ways much better than iOS, Android or even BB10.
    I am quite confident it also includes "contacts", though I doubt one can select any specific contacts.
    02-13-16 05:14 PM
  21. Hobiano's Avatar
    Your right, there is something wrong with BlackBerry, maybe they need to recycle them selfs :/ managers engineers workers and everyone employing

    They must apologize to BlackBerry users

    Posted via CB10
    02-13-16 05:43 PM
  22. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    This probably will sound offensive for app developers and for many of you who will read this, but DON'T FEEL OFFENDED, read this as opportunity to start to so see everything outside of the box and make something special.

    Ok, lets start. I am so disappointing with all indie developers Blackberry have today and Blackberry itself and I will tell you why. I am so disappointed that all indie developers are wasting their time to make third-party client apps for Facebook, Instagram, Uber and etc. but I'm not blaming them, I am just disappointed. Does any app developer for iOS/Android also focused to create third-party client for already created service by others? I don't think so. Ok, I understand that all these indie developers are trying to "make life easier" for all who say "Blackberry lack of apps", "Blackberry do not have Instagram" and etc. but do they really? It is something really wrong with Blackberry, why they do not make good relationship with all of these most popular app developers for the last 3 years. Blackberry must tell the reason loud and clearly why they do not have good relationship with all of those major app creators/developers and tell us as soon as possible. Blackberry must be honest with all their users and tell us why it is like this.

    But talking about indie developers for BB10, it is going worse. All of you who say Blackberry do not reward developers, I want to ask: Why the hell Blackberry should reward any of you? Does Apple/Google reward any of you more or anything at all or just charge you so you could have the opportunity to put you app into their stores? Blackberry rewarding you by capability to make native apps with almost no competition. This is a reward that none Apple or Google could not ever reward you. Now it's your time to take advantage of this.

    And for all Blackberry indie developers out here I want to say, STOP WASTING TIME BY MAKING WORTHLESS THIRD-PARTY CLIENTS FOR WHATEVER! JUST STOP! and I will tell you why.

    Reason #1 Blackberry runs pretty much every android app for your third-party clients like Instagram, Uber and etc., so why the hell do you waste your time by making native ones in the first place?? That's the point??

    Reason #2 If android app doesn't work, browser is. Best workaround to make something work just by using m.facebook.com, m.uber.com and etc. Why are you wasting all your time by making third-party clients if there are a solution by creators itself?? No, seriously, I don't get it.

    Reason #3 by making app which just are a redirection to the same m.uber.com, m.here.com and etc. It is NOT APP, STOP TRASHING Blackberry World!. No, seriously, just stop wasting your time and others data.

    My main point is to encourage all of you, indie developers, to stop wasting your time by making something what others already created and start creating something REALLY UNIQUE by yourself for Blackberry 10 devices, like other developers are doing for iOS and Android, something so special that only BB10 users could have. Why? Remember the days then BBM was only available for Blackberry users? BBM was special, only Blackberry devices owners could use it. I think this was one of the major point why Blackberry became popular in the US. BBM and Emails. This is obvious, just look how important is to have something like this, how many of you are so frustrated by not having same apps like Apple and Google devices has today and are even accepting Blackberry "powered by android".

    Indie developers of Blackberry, create something unique and available only for Blackberry 10 users, make new services, games, whatever what could attract masses, make it special. You have great opportunity to make a multi billion company, how? You almost have no competition in Blackberry World like others in iOS/Android trash stores. Use this opportunity for a greater good. This is your time NOW.

    This is how you can help and make BB devices popular again, by creating something new, unique, available only for BB10, but definitely not by making third-party clients for a few die-hard BB10 users. This is exactly how iPhone became popular by having lots of unique services/games and etc. just do the same with BB10 so every iOS/Android/Windows user become jealous they don't have app like BB10 has and they finally had the reason to start to want to join this awesome Blackberry community and buy BB10 device.

    Hope you heard me right and you will finally start to go into the right direction and I will soon read a great article on Crackberry and other websites about your new trendy service/game/whatever available only for BB10 on Blackberry World and after year or two I read about how you sold this great new idea for billion dollars.

    I'm looking forward for something awesome for BB10 created by YOU, app developers.
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-18-16 at 06:14 PM.
    02-18-16 02:06 PM
  23. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    This probably will sound offensive for app developers and for many of you who will read this, but DON'T FEEL OFFENDED, read this as opportunity to start to so see everything outside of the box and make something special.

    Ok, lets start. I am so disappointing with all indie developers Blackberry have today and Blackberry itself and I will tell you why. I am so disappointed that all indie developers are wasting their time to make third-party client apps for Facebook, Instagram, Uber and etc. but I'm not blaming them, I am just disappointed. Does any app developer for iOS/Android also focused to create third-party client for already created service by others? I don't think so. Ok, I understand that all these indie developers are trying to "make life easier" for all who say "Blackberry lack of apps", "Blackberry do not have Instagram" and etc. but do they really? It is something really wrong with Blackberry, why they do not make good relationship with all of these most popular app developers for the last 3 years. Blackberry must tell the reason loud and clearly why they do not have good relationship with all of those major app creators/developers and tell us as soon as possible. Blackberry must be honest with all their users and tell us why it is like this.

    But talking about indie developers for BB10, it is going worse. All of you who say Blackberry do not reward developers, I want to ask: Why the hell Blackberry should reward any of you? Does Apple/Google reward any of you more or anything at all or just charge you so you could have the opportunity to put you app into their stores? Blackberry rewarding you by capability to make native apps with almost no competition. This is a reward that none Apple or Google could not ever reward you. Now it's your time to take advantage of this.

    And for all Blackberry indie developers out here I want to say, STOP WASTING TIME BY MAKING WORTHLESS THIRD-PARTY CLIENTS FOR WHATEVER! JUST STOP! and I will tell you why.

    Reason #1 Blackberry runs pretty much every android app for your third-party clients like Instagram, Uber and etc., so why the hell do you waste your time by making native ones in the first place?? That's the point??

    Reason #2 If android app doesn't work, browser is. Best workaround to make something work just by using m.facebook.com, m.uber.com and etc. Why are you wasting all your time by making third-party clients if there are a solution by creators itself?? No, seriously, I don't get it.

    Reason #3 by making app which just are a redirection to the same m.uber.com, m.here.com and etc. It is NOT APP, STOP TRASHING Blackberry World!. No, seriously, just stop wasting your time and others data.

    My main point is to encourage all of you, indie developers, to stop wasting your time by making something what others already created and start creating something REALLY UNIQUE by yourself for Blackberry 10 devices, like other developers are doing for iOS and Android, something so special that only BB10 users could have. Why? Remember the days then BBM was only available for Blackberry users? BBM was special, only Blackberry devices owners could use it. I think this was one of the major point why Blackberry became popular in the US. BBM and Emails. This is obvious, just look how important is to have something like this, how many of you are so frustrated by not having same apps like Apple and Google devices has today and are even accepting Blackberry "powered by android".

    Indie developers of Blackberry, create something unique and available only for Blackberry 10 users, make new services, games, whatever what could attract masses, make it special. You have great opportunity to make a multi billion company, how? You almost have no competition in Blackberry World like others in iOS/Android trash stores. Use this opportunity for a greater good. This is your time NOW.

    This is how you can help and make BB devices popular again, by creating something new, unique, available only for BB10, but definitely not by making third-party clients for a few die-hard BB10 users. This is exactly how iPhone became popular by having lots of unique services/games and etc. just do the same with BB10 so every iOS/Android/Windows user become jealous they don't have app like BB10 has and they finally had the reason to start to want to join this awesome Blackberry community and buy BB10 device.

    Hope you heard me right and you will finally start to go into the right direction and I will soon read a great article on Crackberry and other websites about your new trendy service/game/whatever available only for BB10 on Blackberry World and after year or two I read about how you sold this great new idea for billion dollars.

    I'm looking forward for something awesome for BB10 created by YOU, app developers.
    They don't want to make blackberry relevant. They want to make money for themselves. It isn't complicated.
    02-18-16 06:29 PM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Indie developers of Blackberry, create something unique and available only for Blackberry 10 users, make new services, games, whatever what could attract masses, make it special. You have great opportunity to make a multi billion company, how? You almost have no competition in Blackberry World like others in iOS/Android trash stores. Use this opportunity for a greater good. This is your time NOW.

    This is how you can help and make BB devices popular again, by creating something new, unique, available only for BB10,
    It isn't indie developers' job to make BB devices popular - that was BB's job. The job of an indie developer is to make money from their apps and/or to create value for their service via their apps, and to do either of those things well, you need to be able to sell to a sizable percentage of the marketplace.

    Why? Simple: very, very few apps or services get anything remotely like 10% of an installed-base using their service - out of the millions of apps and services out there, there are probably only a few dozen non-game apps that crack the 10% threshold. The vast majority are at 2% or less - and that includes FREE apps.

    Being generous, lets say that BB10 has 10M users. This means, on average, being very generous, a good quality app might get 2% of these users, or 200k. If you could charge $1 per app, this would give the dev $140k over the life of the app (before taxes). That's nothing. Assume that a quality app needs at least 2 people to develop - say, one coder and one graphic designer. That's $70k each, probably with the majority spread over a 2-year period ($35k/year over 2 years) that is the likely period where most app purchases occur.

    That might be great for a 19-year-old living at home in Ohio, but it would barely pay rent on a small studio apartment in a sketchy part of the Bay Area - and wouldn't cover the rent on a small studio apartment in Silicon Valley.

    But that same amount of effort poured into an Android app is now looking at an installed base of over 1 billion unique users. Apple would give you over 300 M unique users - and this group will contain a far larger number of users from the upper end of the market then average. Either way, the same app at the same 2% of the market would earn that dev 100 times the money on Android or 30 times the money on iOS.

    I have no idea what you make at your job, and it doesn't really matter, but would you take a 99% pay cut in order to support BB over Android? Or a 96% pay cut to support BB10 over iOS? Because that's exactly what you're asking/expecting indie developers to do by supporting BB10 over Android or iOS.

    And before you say "there is less competition on BB10" (which is true), there is also worse demographics on BB than iOS and probably similar to Android - meaning a big percentage of users are in emerging markets where app sales tend to be much lower.

    These are called "market pressures" - i.e., the pressure to make money so that, not only can you continue to exist, but you can actually make a profit. And the market has spoken - loudly - that they don't believe that BB10 is a viable platform to make profits.
    02-18-16 10:24 PM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    Someone would have to explain to me how you make a multi-billion dollar company by building a product for BB10, where the addressable market is only a few million users??
    02-18-16 10:54 PM
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