03-29-17 07:18 AM
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  1. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Maybe a significant share of BB10 users is
    on BES with "work only" mode (= can't install apps), but the rest doesn't seem to be classical business users.
    As a business man I understand most apps must be paid, because the dev has no other revenue, so I do pay for my apps.

    But I see another challenge for developers.
    BB10 comes with a stock file manager, password keeper, torch, device monitor, etc etc. ...and only limited APIs for developers.
    From most reviews I would also judge that BB10 users don't like permissions request which could be avoided.
    BB10 is certainly no good platform to make quick money with a half-baked app, because we are spoiled by BB10 stock apps






    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 05:56 AM
  2. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    Maybe a significant share of BB10 users is
    on BES with "work only" mode (= can't install apps), but the rest doesn't seem to be classical business users.
    As a business man I understand most apps must be paid, because the dev has no other revenue, so I do pay for my apps.

    But I see another challenge for developers.
    BB10 comes with a stock file manager, password keeper, torch, device monitor, etc etc. ...and only limited APIs for developers.
    From most reviews I would also judge that BB10 users don't like permissions request which could be avoided.
    BB10 is certainly no good platform to make quick money with a half-baked app, because we are spoiled by BB10 stock apps






    Posted via CB10

    Some Apps do abuse permissions, which gives birth to the ***** user who is so enticed with rage that they try to destroy the reputation of a perfectly safe App which uses permissions correctly, I've had one before with my App Nightly Clock, it needed the Camera permission so I could access the Camera Flash as feature, that user decided to 1* it, and hurl a load of abuse at me and accuse me of basically permission misuse.

    In a way, BlackBerry are partly to blame for this, the access to certain feature does fall under some weird permissions, Flash for example shouldn't really be under Camera.

    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 07:18 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You also have to look at WHO is using BlackBerry devices.

    Enterprise has been one of the big customers. But Enterprise is also the ones most concerned about THEIR privacy and security. Which means they tend to lock down devices and prevent the installation of just "any" app. So even if there are say 8 million BB10 users out there, a good portion of them are not viable app customers.

    That was also the problem with BBOS, you had a lot of enterprise customers that reduced the customer base. But then BBOS devices were very popular in developing markets... where either language or lack of interest in paying for apps also removed a big number of the BBOS customer base.
    elfabio80 and Superdupont 2_0 like this.
    02-10-16 07:32 AM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Just for curiosity, from where did you get this number?

    I can easily imagine that they have sold only 5 million BBOS devices last year, but the actual user base could still be much bigger...
    From the earnings report, as of last June, there were still 10 million BBOS users. Extrapolating, based on the historical decline rate, it would be hitting zero right about now, but I suspect there is a bit of a floor effect. I think 5 million is rather generous.

    I suspect most of the recent BBOS device sales were not to new customers, but to replace damaged or failed units for those still having to use them.
    JeepBB and Superdupont 2_0 like this.
    02-10-16 07:36 AM
  5. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Some Apps do abuse permissions ...
    My impression from 1-2 developer responses is that they sometimes require a specific permission although the app doesn't need it, because they are planning some new features in the future.

    But in a few other cases I compared two apps with the same functionality and then kept only the one which needs less permissions.

    I also have (or had) 1-2 apps which connect to Google servers in the background, and here I speculate the developer was perhaps just "lazy" and ported an Android app or something.

    I think apps permission is an issue which should be addressed in the app description, because BB10 users seem to be much more sensitive.
    Chak likes this.
    02-10-16 07:40 AM
  6. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    My impression from 1-2 developer responses is that they sometimes require a specific permission although the app doesn't need it, because they are planning some new features in the future.

    But in a few other cases I compared two apps with the same functionality and then kept only the one which needs less permissions.

    I also have (or had) 1-2 apps which connect to Google servers in the background, and here I speculate the developer was perhaps just "lazy" and ported an Android app or something.

    I think apps permission is an issue which should be addressed in the app description, because BB10 users seem to be much more sensitive.
    Most people don't read the App description, you still get people complaining even when it's there bright as day in black and white.

    The secret server connections even I find a bit dodgy at times,

    Personally BlackBerry should be telling users of the App permissions before it downloads like Android does.


    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 08:09 AM
  7. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    From the earnings report, as of last June, there were still 10 million BBOS users. Extrapolating, based on the historical decline rate, it would be hitting zero right about now, but I suspect there is a bit of a floor effect. I think 5 million is rather generous.

    I suspect most of the recent BBOS device sales were not to new customers, but to replace damaged or failed units for those still having to use them.

    Very curious to see where these millions of remaining BBOS users will be moving to, because I would assume the vast majority is enterprise/governments.

    I personally wouldn't be surprised if BB7 would be discontinued in 2016, including BES12 support.
    We have seen this already for the PlayBook, last year it actually hurt me a bit to see that BES 12 is still supporting BB7 and earlier versions, but no PlayBook OS 2.
    02-10-16 08:42 AM
  8. crucial bbq's Avatar
    There is plenty to be made developing apps outside of paid apps. Every consumer brand has an app. Mobile ads abound. Uber is an app-based service and is worth tens of billions. If you think there's no money in apps then you haven't looked into getting one developed.
    I am sure that you can think of other examples, but for Uber, well, the concept of the car service is well over a decade old and Uber itself is global. To add, "calling a Uber" not only has now become ubiquitous to mean "Calling a cab", it also means "do not actually call a cab, I really mean get an Uber". So you can understand its valuation since the service is almost entirely reliant on the app (where in the past it was a phone call) and "Uber" has entered the vernacular. Here, if you control the app you control the whole operation.

    The majority of apps however will never become the next big thing. Yes, you can make money doing apps but what's the chance of your app becoming worth $10B or more? Extremely slim, for sure. While the Pied Pipers of the world are certainly out there the few devs that I know are just ordinary guys who do the apps on the side as a hobby. They don't spend much money on it and they earn not much more.
    brookie229 likes this.
    02-10-16 08:52 AM
  9. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    The secret server connections even I find a bit dodgy at times,
    I find it really irritating that they deactivated the "internet permission" of BB10.
    Most quality apps in the appstore (that I purchased) do not have any ads anyways and it is clear that the user base wants privacy, so from that perspective I don't see any damage.
    For BBRY it should be very easy to re-activate the control over the internet permission, at least for the apps from BBW.
    02-10-16 08:55 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Very curious to see where these millions of remaining BBOS users will be moving to, because I would assume the vast majority is enterprise/governments.

    I personally wouldn't be surprised if BB7 would be discontinued in 2016, including BES12 support.
    We have seen this already for the PlayBook, last year it actually hurt me a bit to see that BES 12 is still supporting BB7 and earlier versions, but no PlayBook OS 2.
    Like everyone else, they will HAVE to move to Apple or Android, and from what I've read, that is currently 75% / 25% respectively where EMM is concerned. However. Because of the hardening in Android M (not to mention Priv / Android for Work / BES / Good), I think the Android numbers will start going up dramatically.
    02-10-16 08:58 AM
  11. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Like everyone else, they will HAVE to move [...]
    I totally agree.

    to Apple or Android
    I bet against this.
    I simply have not enough fantasy.
    I simply cannot picture an Angela Merkel with an iPhone or Android, because I can very well imagine taking over an Android with a simple sms (mediaserver had to be patched again last month).

    I would expect seeing more BB10 sales but also Priv sales, and personally I think if BB10 doesn't work anymore one day one can still switch to the Priv.

    However, either way, probably not relevant for BB10 developers, unfortunately.
    02-10-16 09:14 AM
  12. Rustybronco's Avatar
    Most people don't read the App description, you still get people complaining even when it's there bright as day in black and white.
    They don't care to think about anything either. It's too much of a bother. All they want is to be spoon fed. That's people in general (in my opinion).
    02-10-16 09:16 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    I totally agree.



    I bet against this.
    I simply have not enough fantasy.
    I simply cannot picture an Angela Merkel with an iPhone or Android
    I don't think BB10 is a viable option. These few remaining customers aren't enough to fund its continued existence - let alone continue its development and certifications.

    Blackphone, Priv, iPhone, or their successors will simply have to fill the bill.
    02-10-16 09:24 AM
  14. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I don't think BB10 is a viable option. These few remaining customers aren't enough to fund its continued existence - let alone continue its development and certifications.
    The same could be said about BBOS, but BBOS is still here.
    If the remaining BBOS users would all switch to BB10, we would have more than 10 millions users, while BlackBerry still has some inventory.

    If I would be the IT manager coming from BBOS with BES, I would still go for the more secure BB10+BES in 2016 and keep the Priv as a "plan B".
    02-10-16 09:49 AM
  15. early2bed's Avatar
    They don't care to think about anything either. It's too much of a bother. All they want is to be spoon fed. That's people in general (in my opinion).
    App instructions are becoming like the instruction manual for mobile devices - something to be thrown away. An app should guide you through how to use it. That doesn't mean that you want to be spoon fed. It just means that there are too many devices and apps to deal with on a daily basis to sit and read instruction manuals.

    For example, if I want to call an Uber or Lyft or whatever the local ridesharing service is, I should be able to download the app, select my location, and if I have Apple Pay or some other electronic wallet, arrange payment. It may sound entitled and lazy but if you are standing on the street in the rain and can't find a taxi, its nice not to have to read a bunch of instructions and set up and account.
    02-10-16 10:00 AM
  16. Rustybronco's Avatar
    App instructions are becoming like the instruction manual for mobile devices - something to be thrown away. An app should guide you through how to use it. That doesn't mean that you want to be spoon fed. It just means that there are too many devices and apps to deal with on a daily basis to sit and read instruction manuals.

    For example, if I want to call an Uber or Lyft or whatever the local ridesharing service is, I should be able to download the app, select my location, and if I have Apple Pay or some other electronic wallet, arrange payment. It may sound entitled and lazy but if you are standing on the street in the rain and can't find a taxi, its nice not to have to read a bunch of instructions and set up and account.
    Fourty plus years of dealing with the public tells me you are wrong. They come in here asking the stupidest of questions which they could have easily put in a little thought for themselves and answered their own question. They don't care to read nor think. it's easier to ask rather than be self sufficient.

    If you are standing in the rain getting wet while trying to down load an app like Uber, might suggest thinking ahead next time and program a phone number or two of a cab service. Like I said, they don't want to think.
    Last edited by Rustybronco; 02-10-16 at 12:54 PM. Reason: than be self sufficient
    02-10-16 12:01 PM
  17. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    Fourty plus years of dealing with the public tells me you are wrong. They come in here asking the stupidest of questions which they could have easily put in a little thought for themselves and answered their own question. They don't care to read nor think. it's easier to ask rather tan be self

    If you are standing in the rain getting wet while trying to down load an app like Uber, might suggest thinking ahead next time and program a phone number or two of a cab service. Like I said, they don't want to think.
    I'm a Customer Service/ Sales assistant so I know all about stupid questions, I must say wtf to myself at least 20 times a shift.

    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 12:23 PM
  18. Rustybronco's Avatar
    I'm a Customer Service/ Sales assistant so I know all about stupid questions, I must say wtf to myself at least 20 times a shift.

    Posted via CB10
    Hi, I need lug nuts for my car. Do you have them?

    What year and what kind of vehicle? ... I bought it here... Can't you look it up?
    (first of all, how in the heck am I supposed to know who you are and if you don't know what kind of vehicle you have how am I supposed to look it up?)
    Last edited by Rustybronco; 02-10-16 at 12:46 PM.
    02-10-16 12:33 PM
  19. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Return

    On

    Investment.

    {drops mic}

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    Better pic up that mic and explain why some vendors don't even allow BlackBerry access to APIs to BlackBerry could fund the development 100% themselves. Cue Troy with some hogwash about how costly THAT would be, and then cue my response about how a single developer in house at WhatsApp is able to keep the BlackBerry 10 version current, and it goes in unsubstantiated circles but in the end, what difference does it make?
    02-10-16 01:48 PM
  20. early2bed's Avatar
    Better pic up that mic and explain why some vendors don't even allow BlackBerry access to APIs to BlackBerry could fund the development 100% themselves.
    Because a mobile app is often the sole interface with your customer so supporting an app is like allowing someone to open up a storefront with your brand. If Uber or Arbnb or Priceline have a BlackBerry app then it better work great otherwise people will feel the the service isn't good. That would be like Starbucks letting any gas station buy their coffee and putting their logo up.

    No company worth billions is going to allow anyone else to do anything like that. It would be better to tell those users "We don't support that platform," especially if most of those users have another phone or a tablet that can utilize their supported app.
    JeepBB, mikeo007 and app_Developer like this.
    02-10-16 01:56 PM
  21. chak06880's Avatar
    As far as I know, BB Apps allow users disallow an app to gain access to contacts, photos, etc. Google and Apple apps do not allow that feature. For instance, I can check off that I do not want the Wall Street Journal BB app to have access to my contacts, photos, etc.
    When I want to install an Amazon App, it is either accept all or not have to app.
    The developers that offer free apps want access to our data while BB10 provides the option for us to deny them that access. I believe some of the App problem for BB stems from our ability to deny devs access to our data.
    I do not want to give these entities access to my photos, emails, etc. and I will live with the fact that I don't have every App in the universe.
    02-10-16 03:32 PM
  22. lfcohen's Avatar
    BBOS was the only game in town for a while, so they had the developers initially. As Android and Apple gained traction while BlackBerry hesitated, developers left in droves.

    BB10 is actually very easy to develop for, but the ecosystem war was already over before it came out.
    What about multi-platform developer tools? :-) Cordova and a few others like sencha.. still viable to target BB10, iOS etc?



    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 03:32 PM
  23. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    The developers that offer free apps want access to our data while BB10 provides the option for us to deny them that access. I believe some of the App problem for BB stems from our ability to deny devs access to our data.
    I do not want to give these entities access to my photos, emails, etc. and I will live with the fact that I don't have every App in the universe.
    I couldn't give two f***s about your data, don't be spreading myths that free App devs want your data, we don't all steal and and most of us have no interest whatsoever if you have a stripper in your phone book and most certainly don't want your favourite cat pictures.........!

    I have nearly 30 Apps in total, 3/4 are free and don't touch any user data at all.

    And Android let's you turn permissions off, in 6.0 and above



    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 03:52 PM
  24. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    Hi, I need lug nuts for my car. Do you have them?

    What year and what kind of vehicle? ... I bought it here... Can't you look it up?
    (first of all, how in the heck am I supposed to know who you are and if you don't know what kind of vehicle you have how am I supposed to look it up?)

    Many a time :P
    I work on the shoe dept most of the time,

    'Hi, I saw some shoes online, there where black do you have them?'

    (Brand name, shoe name, rough idea what material, size needed, can you show me a picture ? This little scanner in my hand doesn't read minds I'm afraid)

    Posted via CB10
    02-10-16 04:03 PM
  25. DonHB's Avatar
    I have nearly 30 Apps in total, 3/4 are free and don't touch any user data at all.

    And Android let's you turn permissions off, in 6.0 and above
    And ancient PalmOS has more granular control of access to user data than BB10. Something we will not likely see improved by BlackBerry.
    02-10-16 05:00 PM
198 1234 ...

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