03-29-17 07:18 AM
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  1. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    Main Question: It's already 2016 and it is seriously something wrong with Blackberry and major app developers relationship. Why major developers still do not make native apps like Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Uber and etc. for Blackberry 10? If EVEN indie developers are capable to make third-party clients for Facebook, Instagram, Uber and etc. why actual app/services creators still did not make original apps for Blackberry 10? Why these major app/services developers do not love Blackberry 10? What Blackberry did wrong with those poor guys, why they not showing some love?

    Update 2:

    Talking about Blackberry itself, I don't really get why they still positioning/marketing themselves (yes, Blackberry=marketing, sounds funny) and still targeting Blackberry 10 as ONLY "made for government and business". What do they want to fool? Well, it definitely doesn't work for average consumer and in 2016 it also doesn't work for government and business also, they all want universal Operating System in 2016, but it seems like Blackberry is still with the horse blanker. Blackberry is only fooling itself and I will tell you why.

    First of all, Blackberry need to understand that there is no such a thing as a "niche" Operating System and Blackberry 10 Operating System is most definitely are not a "niche" Operating System. BB10 is universal Operating System like iOS/Android/WP, but just with lack of OS translations and with zero ecosystem. When will they get this?

    Why John Chen on purpose spread false information and mislead the market and still promoting/targeting Blackberry 10 as "for government and business" everywhere, why he don't change the sentence from "for government and business" to "from government to private users/consumers"?

    Why does it feels like positioning and targeting BB10 ONLY "for government and business" is the real reason why services providers/developers do not want create apps for BB10 and make average consumers feel BB10 is not for them so for the same reason not buying them?

    Not only average user wants ecosystem, government and businesses also want universal Operating System, but Blackberry itself make and keep BB10 on porpuse as a "niche" OS. Blackberry should feel the shame of not to be capable to find the way to make major service providers/developers to make apps for BB10 ecosystem and for the same reason make existing BB10 developers wasting their times to make third-party clients for those services.

    Only after opening Blackberry World and only after I at least see that Facebook app is "created by Facebook Inc." I can say that BB10 has a future, only after Blackberry find the way to make major apps developers start supporting BB10 I will say BB10 has the future.

    Only after next video shared by Crackberry of John Chen speech and if ONLY John Chen will say "Blackberry 10 is made to use from government to average consumer" I will say BB10 has a future.

    Update:

    This probably will sound offensive for app developers and for many of you who will read this, but DON'T FEEL OFFENDED, read this as opportunity to start to so see everything outside of the box and make something special.

    Ok, lets start. I am so disappointing with all indie developers Blackberry have today and Blackberry itself and I will tell you why. I am so disappointed that all indie developers are wasting their time to make third-party client apps for Facebook, Instagram, Uber and etc. but I'm not blaming them, I am just disappointed. Does any app developer for iOS/Android also focused to create third-party client for already created service by others? I don't think so. Ok, I understand that all these indie developers are trying to "make life easier" for all who say "Blackberry lack of apps", "Blackberry do not have Instagram" and etc. but do they really? It is something really wrong with Blackberry, why they do not make good relationship with all of these most popular app developers for the last 3 years. Blackberry must tell the reason loud and clearly why they do not have good relationship with all of those major app creators/developers and tell us as soon as possible. Blackberry must be honest with all their users and tell us why it is like this.

    But talking about indie developers for BB10, it is going worse. All of you who say Blackberry do not reward developers, I want to ask: Why the hell Blackberry should reward any of you? Does Apple/Google reward any of you more or anything at all or just charge you so you could have the opportunity to put you app into their stores? Blackberry rewarding you by capability to make native apps with almost no competition. This is a reward that none Apple or Google could not ever reward you. Now it's your time to take advantage of this.

    And for all Blackberry indie developers out here I want to say, STOP WASTING TIME BY MAKING WORTHLESS THIRD-PARTY CLIENTS FOR WHATEVER! JUST STOP! and I will tell you why.

    Reason #1 Blackberry runs pretty much every android app for your third-party clients like Instagram, Uber and etc., so why the hell do you waste your time by making native ones in the first place?? That's the point??

    Reason #2 If android app doesn't work, browser is. Best workaround to make something work just by using m.facebook.com, m.uber.com and etc. Why are you wasting all your time by making third-party clients if there are a solution by creators itself?? No, seriously, I don't get it.

    Reason #3 by making app which just are a redirection to the same m.uber.com, m.here.com and etc. It is NOT APP, STOP TRASHING Blackberry World!. No, seriously, just stop wasting your time and others data.

    My main point is to encourage all of you, indie developers, to stop wasting your time by making something what others already created and start creating something REALLY UNIQUE by yourself for Blackberry 10 devices, like other developers are doing for iOS and Android, something so special that only BB10 users could have. Why? Remember the days then BBM was only available for Blackberry users? BBM was special, only Blackberry devices owners could use it. I think this was one of the major point why Blackberry became popular in the US. BBM and Emails. This is obvious, just look how important is to have something like this, how many of you are so frustrated by not having same apps like Apple and Google devices has today and are even accepting Blackberry "powered by android".

    Indie developers of Blackberry, create something unique and available only for Blackberry 10 users, make new services, games, whatever what could attract masses, make it special. You have great opportunity to make a multi billion company, how? You almost have no competition in Blackberry World like others in iOS/Android trash stores. Use this opportunity for a greater good. This is your time NOW.

    This is how you can help and make BB devices popular again, by creating something new, unique, available only for BB10, but definitely not by making third-party clients for a few die-hard BB10 users. This is exactly how iPhone became popular by having lots of unique services/games and etc. just do the same with BB10 so every iOS/Android/Windows user become jealous they don't have app like BB10 has and they finally had the reason to start to want to join this awesome Blackberry community and buy BB10 device.

    Hope you heard me right and you will finally start to go into the right direction and I will soon read a great article on Crackberry and other websites about your new trendy service/game/whatever available only for BB10 on Blackberry World and after year or two I read about how you sold this great new idea for billion dollars.

    I'm looking forward for something awesome for BB10 created by YOU, app developers. Good luck!


    Older:

    This is question in general. Why Blackberry devices with their own OS was never supported by app developers? Even Facebook app is created by Blackberry itself not by Facebook, so it's no question for me why its so outdated because service provider itself do not support his services on Blackberry phones and please do not say its because BB10 is not popular because it's the same story with 7OS and earlier BBOS versions then they was on the top back in the days, but still app was created by Blackberry itself not by Facebook. Facebook created and supports their app for android, iOS and even Windows Phone, but not for BB10 or BBOS earlier versions. Even Uber created app for Windows Phone and have for BB 7OS, but not for BB10 and this kind of story goes on and on. As I know many software programs for creating apps/games don't have port for Blackberry 10 like "Game Maker" and etc.

    So what is wrong with all of this? Does Blackberry itself make hard for app developers to offer its app/services by "license and agreements" or just Blackberry make hard to make apps itself difficult to create for their platform? I do not believe that Facebook couldn't afford to make app for BB7OS or most certainly today for BB10, but Blackberry still make app for Facebook, but not Facebook itself and this list of major app developers goes on and on, BUT it looks like only private app developers can "afford" and create third-party clients for the same like Facebook, Uber, Instagram and etc. for BB10. It's really something fishy around here..

    What are your thoughts? How difficult is to create apps/games for Blackberry 10 in general?
    Last edited by novapolskas; 02-22-16 at 06:44 AM.
    Hobiano likes this.
    02-09-16 11:44 AM
  2. early2bed's Avatar
    Ever look around to try to find someone who has a BB10 handset? Well, developers do the same thing. If you hardly ever see someone who would be able to use your app then it gives you a bad feeling about how much your app is going to be used. Also, if you are developing an app for a a specific kind of hardware then you usually have to obtain the device to do the testing. BB10 hardware is all over the place in terms of size, shape, and configuration so you have to decide whether you can get all of them and, of course, have a hard time even obtaining them. Finally, the most popular platforms also have tablets which means you can also target tablets without much extra work if any.

    Also, it doesn't help that BlackBerry's CEO talks about the possibility of getting out hardware. That's like saying at some point we might flush all of your hard work down the toilet, but we're going to try hard not to do that.
    JeepBB, FF22 and mikeo007 like this.
    02-09-16 12:27 PM
  3. Soulstream's Avatar
    Developing for each platform takes about the same time and effort and cost the same ammount of money. The same goes for later support of the app.Building for the top 3 OSs (iOS, Android and WP) cover 99% of the market. The last 1% is shared not just by BB10, but also some other fringe OSs (Tizen, Jolla, firefoxOS etc).

    As an app dev myself, I can tell you most devs don't really want more than 2-3 OSs. 3 is a small enough number for focused developement effort, but also big enough for the market to be competitive enough. 3 was a good number for desktop as well (with WIndows, MacOSX and Linux distros) and it is deemed to be enough for mobile as well.

    Also app dev have very little "brand loyalty". The want viable OSs, they don't really care which OSs are viable. It just happened to be iOS and Android in mobile and Windows and MacOSX in desktop. If devs had "brand loyalty" Windows would also have won the mobile space.
    02-09-16 01:17 PM
  4. early2bed's Avatar
    Also app dev have very little "brand loyalty". The want viable OSs, they don't really care which OSs are viable. It just happened to be iOS and Android in mobile and Windows and MacOSX in desktop. If devs had "brand loyalty" Windows would also have won the mobile space.
    Developers definitely have loyalty to the platform that they have some expertise in because each subsequent project is significantly easier on the same platform. Brand loyalty for a smartphone user means you chose a smartphone.

    Brand loyalty for a platform developer means that they have spent months if not years learning the frameworks, etc. I'd hate to be the "BlackBerry guy" on any development team because I'd always be looking over my shoulder to see whether my position would be discontinued. Then I'd be looking for a job with that kind of expertise on my resume. I applaud your brand loyalty to BlackBerry but if they stop using BB10 then all you do is sigh and buy another smartphone.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-09-16 01:29 PM
  5. Soulstream's Avatar
    Developers definitely have loyalty to the platform that they have some expertise in because each subsequent project is significantly easier on the same platform. Brand loyalty for a smartphone user means you chose a smartphone.

    Brand loyalty for a platform developer means that they have spent months if not years learning the frameworks, etc. I'd hate to be the "BlackBerry guy" on any development team because I'd always be looking over my shoulder to see whether my position would be discontinued. Then I'd be looking for a job with that kind of expertise on my resume. I applaud your brand loyalty to BlackBerry but if they stop using BB10 then all you do is sigh and buy another smartphone.
    I agree with you. What I meant by developer brand loyalty is that most devs don't really care for the OS name as long as their apps sell. Devs have nothing personal against BB10, it's just an opportunity cost problem.
    JeepBB and app_Developer like this.
    02-09-16 01:38 PM
  6. kvndoom's Avatar
    Return

    On

    Investment.

    {drops mic}

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    StephanieMaks and JeepBB like this.
    02-09-16 02:01 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    BB10 has between 5 and 8 million unique users right now. At its peak, it had between 10 and 15 million.

    Android has 1.4 billion users.

    Apple has 1 billion active devices worldwide (phones, ipads, ipods).

    Who would you develop for?
    02-09-16 02:02 PM
  8. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    BB10 has between 5 and 8 million unique users right now. At its peak, it had between 10 and 15 million.

    Android has 1.4 billion users.

    Who would you develop for?
    What numbers was of 7OS and earlier versions?
    02-09-16 02:05 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    What numbers was of 7OS and earlier versions?
    I believe it maxed out at about 85 million. There are under 5 million left.
    02-09-16 02:06 PM
  10. iHadLastBB's Avatar
    I believe it maxed out at about 85 million.
    + well, with 7OS Blackberry still had to make Facebook app by themselves even then their devices was most popular in US and UK, I just feel it was something wrong with app developers support from the start, not only BB10 and numbers of devices sales do not count as most important factor.
    Hobiano likes this.
    02-09-16 02:11 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    well, Blackberry still had to make Facebook app for themselves even then their devices was most popular in US and UK, I just feel it was something wrong with app developers support from the start, not only BB10.
    BBOS was the only game in town for a while, so they had the developers initially. As Android and Apple gained traction while BlackBerry hesitated, developers left in droves.

    BB10 is actually very easy to develop for, but the ecosystem war was already over before it came out.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-09-16 02:14 PM
  12. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    I'll pitch in a bit, I'm a BlackBerry 10 App dev,
    Basically there's very little reward for it, very few want to to pay for apps and for someone like myself who doesn't believe in adverts it's a pain.

    BlackBerry have basically confirmed the dis continuation of BB10 in the next few years, the API access we have is terrible, the store and tools are always breaking.
    I'm personally close to packing it in, no interest and no reward for us anymore

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-16 02:35 PM
  13. Ronindan's Avatar
    might as well. hard to develop apps for an ecosystem that does not have any financial rewards.
    02-09-16 02:38 PM
  14. early2bed's Avatar
    Remember that prior to the iPhone, 3rd party apps were not nearly as popular. Two out of three people who owned Palm OS smartphones never installed an app - ever. Palm OS apps had to be downloaded as .zip files, unzipped, installed into the desktop software, and synchronized with the PDA/smartphone. Not to mention having to establish an separate account with a credit card number for each vendor. Think about your family and friends and what a nightmare it would be to try to get an app installed an maintained.

    The iPhone App Store made it easier and brought the app economy to the average user which made consumer apps worthwhile for the first time. Does anyone have any statistics regarding what percentage of BBOS users installed 3rd party apps in 2010? I'll bet it was a small minority.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-09-16 04:33 PM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    How many people here on CB have loudly complained about apps that have ads ("They're stealing my info!"), and also about having to pay for apps. BB10 in particular was a hard place for devs to make money - it had neither the number of users or the "I'm willing to pay my fair share" attitude that other platforms had. That's another reason most devs stayed away.
    02-09-16 08:34 PM
  16. Uzi's Avatar
    How many people here on CB have loudly complained about apps that have ads ("They're stealing my info!"), and also about having to pay for apps. BB10 in particular was a hard place for devs to make money - it had neither the number of users or the "I'm willing to pay my fair share" attitude that other platforms had. That's another reason most devs stayed away.
    Exactly just look at face10 thread..
    Jerry A likes this.
    02-09-16 08:45 PM
  17. brookie229's Avatar
    it had neither the number of users or the "I'm willing to pay my fair share" attitude that other platforms had
    I definitely agree with the first part of your sentence, but I would like to see some proof of your second assertion that BB10 has more miserly users than other platforms. I have always assumed (rightly or wrongly, perhaps) that iOS users were the most willing to pay for good apps and android users were more likely to want or seek free and maybe ad sponsored apps, with BB10 users being somewhere in the middle. I would like to hear from a developer's perspective on that assumption.
    02-09-16 09:31 PM
  18. meattray's Avatar
    It's unfortunate that so few are willing to pay for apps. I mean realistically when you look at the amount we use our mobile devices today, what's a couple of dollars for the amount of time we would use the app?

    Posted via CB10
    brookie229 likes this.
    02-09-16 10:14 PM
  19. brookie229's Avatar
    It's unfortunate that so few are willing to pay for apps. I mean realistically when you look at the amount we use our mobile devices today, what's a couple of dollars for the amount of time we would use the app?

    Posted via CB10
    I remember reading a report by Gartner Inc. that predicted by 2016, 95% of all app downloads would be free. I wonder if that prediction is correct. Regardless of the platform though, very few developers are making much money on their apps IMHO. I, for one, am very willing to support a developer for a good app, and have purchased 28 BW apps over the 2 plus years that I have been using a BB device even though I am not a huge app user.

    edit: just found that Gartner paper if anyone is interested: http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2648515
    02-09-16 10:26 PM
  20. early2bed's Avatar
    There is plenty to be made developing apps outside of paid apps. Every consumer brand has an app. Mobile ads abound. Uber is an app-based service and is worth tens of billions. If you think there's no money in apps then you haven't looked into getting one developed.
    02-09-16 10:42 PM
  21. brookie229's Avatar
    There is plenty to be made developing apps outside of paid apps. Every consumer brand has an app. Mobile ads abound. Uber is an app-based service and is worth tens of billions. If you think there's no money in apps then you haven't looked into getting one developed.
    Did I say there was NO money in apps. Of course there are some apps that make tremendous amounts of money for a developer(s). What Gartner is saying in the article is that the VAST majority of devs make little for their labors. Kinda like a lottery. Someone will make a windfall, but many, many more make enough to cover costs and maybe enough to just make a living. A huge number just make apps for fun really.
    02-09-16 10:53 PM
  22. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Did I say there was NO money in apps. Of course there are some apps that make tremendous amounts of money for a developer(s). What Gartner is saying in the article is that the VAST majority of devs make little for their labors. Kinda like a lottery. Someone will make a windfall, but many, many more make enough to cover costs and maybe enough to just make a living. A huge number just make apps for fun really.
    Other than games, most apps are free, but they're also from big corporations not small time indie developers. Nobody pays for their bank app, Starbucks, etc. However, those corporations have in house developers who collect regular paychecks to develop and update those apps.
    02-10-16 12:21 AM
  23. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I definitely agree with the first part of your sentence, but I would like to see some proof of your second assertion that BB10 has more miserly users than other platforms. I have always assumed (rightly or wrongly, perhaps) that iOS users were the most willing to pay for good apps and android users were more likely to want or seek free and maybe ad sponsored apps, with BB10 users being somewhere in the middle. I would like to hear from a developer's perspective on that assumption.
    I don't charge for applications I developed, nor do I use add support so I can't speak to how miserly BB10 users are. But I've been developing for BlackBerry platforms since BBOS 4 and if you are interested in anecdotal information I can say that compared to BBOS users BB10 users are:

    * much less likely to invest any time trying to understand the purpose, design goals, or operation of an application;

    * much less likely to engage product support and much more likely to ask questions in review posts, or give bad reviews because the application, although it does what the vendor says, doesn't do what the user wants;

    * overall the experience of being an application developer giving away work for free on BB10 has been very unsatisfactory compared to BBOS.

    * BB10 users are much more likely to become "bored" or have a short attention span than BBOS users.

    Of course not all users are the same. There are some users that I have worked with to develop and add features and these have been rewarding experiences. But if there is anything that discouraged me from continuing to develop applications on BB10 for broad distribution it is the user community, not BlackBerry. In fact I am still developing BB10 applications for friends and family that will probably never see BlackBerry World for these reasons.

    And if this isn't enough, as someone said, look at the Face10 threads. Nemory has made his share of mistakes in the past, but he has really stepped up to the plate to provide a much improved Facebook experience for less than the cost of anything worth drinking at a Starbucks. There are some very supportive users, and it sounds like he may be doing ok financially from the application. But Facebook changes the API on a monthly basis. Supporting a Facebook application is going to be very difficult as a commercial endeavour, especially with such a small consumer base.

    Large developers have either made applications for, or stayed away from BB10 for their own reasons. The small user base is probably a major reason, and a small user base is not going to be successful in changing a large developer's mind. But a small user base can easily change a small developer's mind. So be careful how you treat the developers who are left.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    02-10-16 04:19 AM
  24. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I believe it maxed out at about 85 million. There are under 5 million left.
    Just for curiosity, from where did you get this number?

    I can easily imagine that they have sold only 5 million BBOS devices last year, but the actual user base could still be much bigger...
    02-10-16 05:18 AM
  25. JeepBB's Avatar
    Just for curiosity, from where did you get this number?

    I can easily imagine that they have sold only 5 million BBOS devices last year, but the actual user base could still be much bigger...

    Conite can speak for himself, but I suspect that answers are to be found in the ER publications.

    BBOS sales are ticking along at around 100k/quarter - far from 5M/year I'm afraid.
    02-10-16 05:37 AM
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