01-22-16 12:35 AM
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  1. Alain_A's Avatar
    They use hardware encryption where Apple does not have access to the key at all. This is how Apple Pay works, and this was a requirement for large international banks to approve Apple Pay.

    The reason is that the data of knowing who bought what and when is extremely valuable and no bank would ever give that up to Apple. In fact this data would be priceless if someone like Apple could combine Citi customers with JPMC, with BofA, with Ing plus all the others. So Apple had to convince us all that they could not decrypt the purchase traffic under any circumstances.

    This same mechanism is now used for iMessage and the secure store that apps can use for their own data.

    The mechanism they built with all this input in the 2 years leading up to the iPhone 6 is all for naught if governments start requiring that vendors reserve the technical ability to decrypt traffic under court order. Apple does not have this ability to decrypt data encrypted in this way, so that's why Cook is being so vocal about this and lobbying governments.
    So you are saying that apple cannot decrypt anything from the phone! ok, now bandit can used that phone to commit crime and not worry about getting caught?
    I'm still pessimist. Even Blackberry can access the traffic data if need be..
    Unless I don't understand
    12-28-15 08:11 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So you are saying that apple cannot decrypt anything from the phone! ok, now bandit can used that phone to commit crime and not worry about getting caught?
    No, all of the traditional ways that criminals get caught are still available - they just won't be able to take their encrypted phones, decrypt them, and mine them for data. Other evidence will have to be used instead - the kind of evidence that police have gathered and used for the last 150 years that police departments have been in existence.
    12-28-15 09:06 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    So you are saying that apple cannot decrypt anything from the phone! ok, now bandit can used that phone to commit crime and not worry about getting caught?
    I'm still pessimist. Even Blackberry can access the traffic data if need be..
    Unless I don't understand
    Apple can't access card purchases or iMessages or certain other things remotely. Basically anything that uses the hardware encryption can be decrypted only if you have physical access to the device and the passcode.

    Again, this was a requirement that banks placed for Apple Pay. If Apple could decrypt those purchases, then hundreds of banks would not have signed up! That would be crazy.
    12-28-15 09:46 PM
  4. Alain_A's Avatar
    No, all of the traditional ways that criminals get caught are still available - they just won't be able to take their encrypted phones, decrypt them, and mine them for data. Other evidence will have to be used instead - the kind of evidence that police have gathered and used for the last 150 years that police departments have been in existence.
    Apple can't access card purchases or iMessages or certain other things remotely. Basically anything that uses the hardware encryption can be decrypted only if you have physical access to the device and the passcode.

    Again, this was a requirement that banks placed for Apple Pay. If Apple could decrypt those purchases, then hundreds of banks would not have signed up! That would be crazy.
    The way I understand, what you guys are saying, Apple has surpassed Blackberry for security?... interesting
    12-29-15 12:18 AM
  5. Vistaus's Avatar
    To the OP, considering that webOS and the Palm Pre are still mentioned on a near daily basis in these threads I think it's safe to say that BB10 will never die.


    This is common in the tech industry; when the project is over devs are let go. If at some point in the future they are wanting to release 10.4 they will hire for those same positions again. In the meantime it makes no sense to keep them on the payroll if there is nothing for them to work on--and this would be true even if BB10 had been selling well.

    One thing people forget is that some voluntarily quit. This idea that Chen came in and cleared house is kind of goofy, in particular since he filled some of those positions with his old crew from Sybase. Chen has said a few times that the hardest part of a turn around strategy is in the changing of the company's culture. Along with that, he also said in early 2015 that for many at BlackBerry the idea of where Chen was wanting to take BlackBerry (to software) was too strange, or different, to accept. Those who could not hang left and Chen brought in his "own" people.


    Not all of them but I know what you mean. The trend for the 6S and 6S+ models seems to be going with a solid back, some with the Apple logo and some without.
    But my beloved webOS has the advantage of being open sourced and thus lives forth in LuneOS (which has monthly updates) which you can load on Nexus devices and the HP Touchpad.

    Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry Passport (OG Red)
    12-29-15 01:34 AM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    The way I understand, what you guys are saying, Apple has surpassed Blackberry for security?... interesting
    It's not a linear scale. BB has security features which iOS does not have. And iOS and newer Samsungs now has some security and/or privacy features which BB doesn't have.

    Which is more secure or more private all depends on how you are using them and what threats you are trying to mitigate, IMO.
    ubizmo, Alain_A and Vistaus like this.
    12-29-15 10:06 AM
  7. BB fan forever's Avatar
    Okay guys, Chen is trying to bring BlackBerry back together financially first of all. Second, he's not just going to throw away BlackBerry 10 just like that and give up. He made Priv for people who want Android but the BlackBerry 10 features and the keyboard. (Money to be made there!) He's still going to support BlackBerry 10 also since more of us would prefer that over Android. Maybe his team is working on a killer BB10 device and doesn't want a word getting out about it.
    12-30-15 04:44 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Okay guys, Chen is trying to bring BlackBerry back together financially first of all. Second, he's not just going to throw away BlackBerry 10 just like that and give up. He made Priv for people who want Android but the BlackBerry 10 features and the keyboard. (Money to be made there!) He's still going to support BlackBerry 10 also since more of us would prefer that over Android. Maybe his team is working on a killer BB10 device and doesn't want a word getting out about it.
    In order to serve niche market, there has to be potential revenue that would exceed any potential expenses. This has never happened with BB10 regarding past and current revenue and expenses. What revenue does BB10 generate from existing customers? When you speak of government and enterprise customers, BlackBerry creates builds for these customers that customers pay for. These builds are proprietary builds for clients, like military, and not shared with public. These customers are no longer asking for BB10 custom builds. The new RFP's are for cross platform solutions which BlackBerry does bid using BES12 and more importantly, the other companies it has acquired with Chen. Just like App devs stopped building apps for BB10, the process for BlackBerry to quit forward movement began when everyone BB10 were let go / not offered new BB10 assignments. BlackBerry's future is securing OS that are IOS/Android, then any other OS that have enough demand with that solution. Will you see MS and BB included, yes, initially. But maintaining like MS did for XP is not development. The other difference is there are no plans for a Vista, 7,8,8.1 or 10 type OS with BB. They didn't keep people for that. At this point, it's Android or die for Hardware for Consumers and small/mid enterprise that buy off the shelf type solutions. I own and love every BB10 device made except for Q5 and Z3 (since I'm American in the USA), but the realities of business survival and desires to grow are what matter to management and more importantly, the shareholders of BlackBerry. It's their (and mine as shareholder too) money.

    Posted via CB10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-30-15 08:35 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Here you go. The BlackBerry Replay...
    Attachment 386205

    Posted via CB10
    12-31-15 01:11 PM
  10. ssbtech's Avatar
    Enjoy your BlackBerry 10 device while it lasts and then move onto whatever platform you like.
    Whatever platform we'd like?

    That's either Apple or Android, both junk. You'd think with so much innovation and competition in the mobile and electronic industries we'd have a little more than two garbage platforms to choose from.
    01-02-16 02:22 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Whatever platform we'd like?

    That's either Apple or Android, both junk. You'd think with so much innovation and competition in the mobile and electronic industries we'd have a little more than two garbage platforms to choose from.
    I'm not sure how you define "garbage" - or even why you would want to use that term. It seems to immediately discredit the opinions of millions of other people - many of whom are actually quite smart.

    I'm a big fan of BB10 too, but I can get a lot more done, a lot faster, on my Priv than I could ever do on my Passport. Does that mean I'm just too stupid to know any better?

    Of course, we all have different use cases, so results may vary, but I can assure you that I'm 75% work, 25% personal on my device.

    iOS is unbeatable for the use cases of many rather intelligent folks too.
    Last edited by conite; 01-02-16 at 03:40 PM.
    01-02-16 03:10 PM
  12. xtremeled's Avatar
    Whatever platform we'd like?

    That's either Apple or Android, both junk. You'd think with so much innovation and competition in the mobile and electronic industries we'd have a little more than two garbage platforms to choose from.
    Looks like your're stuck with two cans and a rope. iOS and Android are the only real OS's left and while I'm not ever gonna be an Android fan, iOS has been working out very well. Once you get to find the apps that work exactly you want. If there was one thing I'd like to have it's the Hub.
    01-02-16 03:45 PM
  13. ssbtech's Avatar
    iOS is unbeatable for the use cases of many rather intelligent folks too.
    8 revisions of the OS and outgoing email attachments are still poorly handled. I guess intelligent people just prefer to email from their desktop computer.
    01-02-16 04:06 PM
  14. ssbtech's Avatar
    Looks like your're stuck with two cans and a rope. iOS and Android are the only real OS's left and while I'm not ever gonna be an Android fan, iOS has been working out very well. Once you get to find the apps that work exactly you want. If there was one thing I'd like to have it's the Hub.
    I may in fact use a simple feature phone before going to iOS or Android. Windows Phone 10 is a possibility, but it features many of the same UI atrocities found in Android and to a lesser extent iOS.
    01-02-16 04:07 PM
  15. xtremeled's Avatar
    I may in fact use a simple feature phone before going to iOS or Android. Windows Phone 10 is a possibility, but it features many of the same UI atrocities found in Android and to a lesser extent iOS.
    Awesome! You don't really need a smart phone at all. Get a flip phone and you don't have to worry about learning how to email or whatever. You can just wait till you get home, Write a letter, put a stamp on it and drop it in the mailbox. For the rest of the working population, we'll need to choose one.
    01-02-16 04:17 PM
  16. xtremeled's Avatar
    8 revisions of the OS and outgoing email attachments are still poorly handled. I guess intelligent people just prefer to email from their desktop computer.
    They did finally make it more usable. It would be nice it was handled a bit better but Apple didn't kill an OS. It's not herky/jerky like Android and it'll be around much longer than OS10. What good is a great email system if you dump the OS?
    01-02-16 04:20 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    8 revisions of the OS and outgoing email attachments are still poorly handled. I guess intelligent people just prefer to email from their desktop computer.
    Yes, iOS is not optimised for emailing attachments, but BB10 can't run Microsoft Word (office 365) or currently attach to a Good or AirWatch work EMM. Does that make BB10 garbage? Different strokes.
    01-02-16 04:21 PM
  18. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    Wait until Windows 10 comes out on mobile and you can being your entire desktop environment including apps to your smartphone. When that finally happens it will goodbye to both Android and BB10 for me. And probably the desktop PC as well.

    Posted via CB10
    01-02-16 04:32 PM
  19. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Yes, iOS is not optimised for emailing attachments, but BB10 can't run Microsoft Word (office 365) or currently attach to a Good or AirWatch work EMM. Does that make BB10 garbage? Different strokes.
    I email attachments in iOS a lot. I don't get it. I use iWork, Google Docs and Microsoft Office depending on collaborators. Most importantly, these docs are almost always synced automatically from desktop to phone.
    01-02-16 04:53 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    I email attachments in iOS a lot. I don't get it. I use iWork, Google Docs and Microsoft Office depending on collaborators. Most importantly, these docs are almost always synced automatically from desktop to phone.
    I know. I think he was referring to selecting multiple files or something. My point was that all of the various OSes have their own pros and cons, and none can be described as "garbage", or " junk".
    GadgetTravel likes this.
    01-02-16 04:56 PM
  21. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    That is not at all common in our industry for large, important projects or flagship products. The ramp up costs would be prohibitive, and you'd introduce massive risk.

    They let these people go because they have no concrete plans for BB10 beyond selling whatever BB10 devices they can over the next few quarters to help balance the books.
    I agree with you. It would be stupid to get rid of the knowledge. It takes a long time to get developers up to speed on a platform. I have been writing software for 35 years and been in or following the industry for just about as long. The only time I have seen companies drop developers like this is before they make a major failure or they drop the platform.
    01-02-16 07:13 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I agree with you. It would be stupid to get rid of the knowledge. It takes a long time to get developers up to speed on a platform. I have been writing software for 35 years and been in or following the industry for just about as long. The only time I have seen companies drop developers like this is before they make a major failure or they drop the platform.
    So this suggest BB10 EOL possible end of 2016?

    Posted via CB10
    01-02-16 08:20 PM
  23. deadcowboy's Avatar
    I'm not sure how you define "garbage" - or even why you would want to use that term. It seems to immediately discredit the opinions of millions of other people - many of whom are actually quite smart.

    I'm a big fan of BB10 too, but I can get a lot more done, a lot faster, on my Priv than I could ever do on my Passport. Does that mean I'm just too stupid to know any better?

    Of course, we all have different use cases, so results may vary, but I can assure you that I'm 75% work, 25% personal on my device.

    iOS is unbeatable for the use cases of many rather intelligent folks too.
    you're able to more quickly manage your local storage, sd storage, and cloud storage with android? you're able to better manage emails, texts, messaging apps with android? you're able to more easily manage email attachments? what about multitasking? what about listening to a youtube video in the background while writing an email? or preloading a documentary from youtube to view on a flight?

    there is so much about BB10 that is years ahead of iOS and Android.

    Posted via CB10
    01-02-16 08:29 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    you're able to more quickly manage your local storage, sd storage, and cloud storage with android? you're able to better manage emails, texts, messaging apps with android? you're able to more easily manage email attachments? what about multitasking? what about listening to a youtube video in the background while writing an email? or preloading a documentary from youtube to view on a flight?

    there is so much about BB10 that is years ahead of iOS and Android.

    Posted via CB10
    Then why do people run from the BB10 OS like the plague? If these features are so important, wouldn't masses of people leave Android/IOS then come back to BlackBerry already? The BB10 guy is like the Maytag Repair Guy.

    Posted via CB10
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    01-02-16 08:34 PM
  25. ssbtech's Avatar
    Then why do people run from the BB10 OS like the plague? If these features are so important, wouldn't masses of people leave Android/IOS then come back to BlackBerry already? The BB10 guy is like the Maytag Repair Guy.

    Posted via CB10
    Simple. Because iOS and Android offer more apps. Doesn't change the fact that the user experience is generally quite junky on iDroid.
    01-02-16 08:37 PM
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